Advocacy & Safety - Cyclist soon to be killed in traffic

On my way to work (by bike), some idiot cyclist came up behind me at a downtown red light and stopped at my left. When there was a gap in cross traffic, he ran the red. I caught up with him at the next red, which, again, he ran when there was a gap in traffic. Once again, I caught him at the next red, where he was weaving in and out of stopped traffic through two lanes to get close to the light. The light turned green and traffic started moving around him. I caught up with him again just before I turned off the street. I yelled, "You ride like a maniac. You're going to get yourself killed." He yelled something back, which I did not hear.

Cyclists like this give as a bad name in two ways. First, they needlessly annoy motorists. Second, when they get killed, people use their accidents to show that cycling is dangerous.

The irony is, all his cheating did him no good. I waited for all the green lights and still kept up with him.

I've also noticed that red light runners also seem to be the first on the footpath when the lanes get a bit narrow. You'd think someone that risk-averse wouldn't run red lights, would you?

This story illustrates something I have observed also. I find it interesting that these people are always easy to catch up with and pass. Does one have to be both morally and physically unfit to act this way? Or, more likely, these are newbies who have just started riding and see themselves as "rolling pedestrians" and continue a lifelong habit of jaywalking?

Paul

When I was living and riding in California years ago, this sort of thing happened all the time. Now what's the big hurry on a nice Saturday ride that you have to blow any and all stop signs? It's even worse when a club ride of 20+ riders take over the road and ignore traffic laws. That's one reason motorists hate cyclists. All it takes is one idiot and one incident to turn us all into targets.

Yep. I got a taste of this recently on a [dis]organized night ride.

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=67103

I see it all the time. He proabably yelled back something like "f-off" or some other unintellegent reply. Which is a typical reponse when they are told they are riding like a jerk off.

Why even bother saying anything to them in the first place. It's extremely unlikely you'll get a positive response anyways.

Why even bother saying anything to them in the first place. It's extremely unlikely you'll get a positive response anyways.

Sometimes even I get up on the wrong side of the bed and behaviour like that really burns my a$$. I can't speak for DC though...



Hey, you want to know what else burns my a$$?





A flame about waist height! :roflmao: :roflmao:
(oh gawd I kill me!)

Yea I see the same thing all the time on the Dundas bike lanes here in Toronto and your right we wait for red lights and still catch up to them :rolleyes: I normaly pass them by and tell them thier a piece of **** and giving us a bad name ,, I just can't say nothing ... Steeker

Funny, if one cyclists does one stupid thing, cyling is considered dangerous. If a motorist does one stupid thing, it's an accident.

Just yesterday, I nearly got run over by some stupid woman. Not a roadie, more like what I call a 'hippie menace' on a bike. Then she turns the wrong way, onto a busy 3-lane road, against the traffic, at dusk. I thought, well it's her skull. Total organ donor.

Here in Fort Wayne Indiana about 2 weeks ago a 46 year old long time cyclist and former racer; well know person in town and amoung cyclist, died when he ran a red light. No one knows if he ran it on purpose or by accident; but I do know that I see many cyclist run red lights and stop signs, and ride around at night with no lights; someday it will catch up to those of you that do those things.

Most accidents are caused by human inattention whether car or bicycle or whatever; regardless at that moment for the parties in involved cycling or driving a car or whatever becomes dangerious; but are those activities dangerous? No!

...Most accidents are caused by human inattention whether car or bicycle or whatever; regardless at that moment for the parties in involved cycling or driving a car or whatever becomes dangerious; but are those activities dangerous? No!

Amen to that. Pay attention all the time, even if you are obeying all the laws. Obeying the law doesn't keep you from getting hit.
Tom

( Amen to that. Pay attention all the time, even if you are obeying all the laws. Obeying the law doesn't keep you from getting hit.
Tom ) I totaly agree I look at all cars like they are going to hit me I become very aware more soo when chasing bike messnagers down Bay street :D but I find it really improves my riding skills and I look at car wheels to see if they are turned towards me in intersections...Steeker

If you caught up to him after he ran all of those reds, he obviously wasn't doing it right. I often skip lights and signs so I can get way ahead of traffic when riding in a city. And yes, I weave between cars to get to the front, too. It works really well and I feel much safer when there's a pack of cars eight blocks behind me instead of right around me.

We can only hope that the motorist think of the law obeying cyclist as the rule not the exception.

If you caught up to him after he ran all of those reds, he obviously wasn't doing it right. I often skip lights and signs so I can get way ahead of traffic when riding in a city. And yes, I weave between cars to get to the front, too. It works really well and I feel much safer when there's a pack of cars eight blocks behind me instead of right around me.
You'd be safer taking the lane and waiting your turn, like all other traffic.

You'd be safer taking the lane and waiting your turn, like all other traffic.

Why not just drive a car then.

Why not just drive a car then.
If we want to be in traffic, we need to follow the rules. Riding along the right side of stopped traffic is iffy, at best, but it's arguably OK. I was responding to someone who said he actually "WEAVED" through stopped traffic. That's nuts.

Running red lights is the single most stupid thing I ever heard of when cars are crossing through the intersection.

You catch up with these people because you are a stronger rider - it has nothing to do with the fact that he went through red lights. He stopped at the red lights and then went ahead when the traffic was clear - thats the way all cars drive in Rome without any apparent impact on their accident rate. Watch the traffic around you is the first rule of cycling safety.

On my way to work (by bike), some idiot cyclist came up behind me at a downtown red light and stopped at my left. When there was a gap in cross traffic, he ran the red. I caught up with him at the next red, which, again, he ran when there was a gap in traffic. Once again, I caught him at the next red, where he was weaving in and out of stopped traffic through two lanes to get close to the light. The light turned green and traffic started moving around him. I caught up with him again just before I turned off the street. I yelled, "You ride like a maniac. You're going to get yourself killed." He yelled something back, which I did not hear.

Cyclists like this give as a bad name in two ways. First, they needlessly annoy motorists. Second, when they get killed, people use their accidents to show that cycling is dangerous.

The irony is, all his cheating did him no good. I waited for all the green lights and still kept up with him.


AND IT WASN"T ME?? that settles it, i'm gonna have to track you down DC , and run every light in front of you!!!

Why do all the self loathers yell at those of us who run reds, but not at those who ride on the sidewalks? Or those ghetto cruisers rolling the wrong way down the street? You're like old men yelling at all the whippersnappers "you're gonna get yourself killed" -- yeah, sooner or later, we all get our tickets punched. But when given the choice between running the red, getting ahead of traffic that's boxing me in, cutting me off, making my ride hell, or stopping at the light and letting the city bus that's behind me run me off the road when the light changes, I'm gonna run the light. You worry about your skills, I'll worry about mine.

And don't come back with that "you're giving the rest of us a bad name" "you're the reason people yell at me on my commute." Its BS. Singling out one person to serve as the scapegoat for why you're persecuted is ridiculous. "Johnny Cochran is the reason people think lawyers are rotten" -- its nonsense. Drivers bothered you before i started riding, and if one of them kills me, they'll continue to bother you after i'm gone. There's an inherent hipocrisy in your arguments though; You don't like me for riding differently than you do, and the drivers don't like you for commuting differently than they do.

Drivers needlessly annoy me. When one kills me, why don't you all use the accident to show why cars are dangerous? Because when they do, it won't be because i ran a red.

and they're right Daily Commute -- you did just catch the guy cause you're fast. Not as fast as me or CJ, probably faster than D.D. ;)

We should follow the rules unless the rules cause a safety (as opposed to a convenience) problem, especially in rush-hour downtown traffic. The thing that the guy did that really ticked my off was weaving through stopped traffic, and then getting caught in an awkward, dangerous, spot when traffic started moving. If you're going to sneak to the front of a line of cars at a red light, you have to be prepared to merge when traffic starts. This guy wasn't ready.

I'm entitled to tell him what I think, but my opinion of the guy doesn't ban him from the road. He's entitled to ignore me if he choses. And I'm happy that you yell at the sidewalk riders. They deserve it, too.

And don't come back with that "you're giving the rest of us a bad name" "you're the reason people yell at me on my commute." Its BS. Singling out one person to serve as the scapegoat for why you're persecuted is ridiculous. "Johnny Cochran is the reason people think lawyers are rotten" -- its nonsense. Drivers bothered you before i started riding, and if one of them kills me, they'll continue to bother you after i'm gone.

:rolleyes:

You're right, it's not one guy. It's because of all the cyclists who don't follow the law, one at a time. I have too many fingers to count the bikers I saw doing their stop this year. It's only slightly better at stop lights. And then there are those not using ANY lights at night, going against traffic, riding on sidewalks. We have a bad reputation and unfortunately, I think we deserve it fully.

Two buddies, my girl and I were on a downtown ride a few weeks ago and she totally blew a light. This truck came feet from reaming her. -_- I was SO angry. I 'talked' to her for a long while afterwards. I didn't run the light. If I had, I would have been road-burger.

Both cycling and driving on the road are PRIVILEGES, NOT RIGHTS. Privileges can be revoked for violating the rules of the road. I wish all riders would follow the rules of the road -- my brother is one who didn't, and was killed for it! I also wish the selfish ones who only think about their own personal best, or who are racing to the next sign on the roadside, would be a little more global in their thinking...it does effect us all, there ramifications to their actions.

We, as cyclists, need to let our local police know that we want them to ticket violators, just as they would a driver.

And then there are those not using ANY lights at night, going against traffic, riding on sidewalks. We have a bad reputation and unfortunately, I think we deserve it fully.

Who's "we" exactly? I don't know about you, but I don't run red lights or do any of the things you describe, so how exactly do I deserve a "bad reputation", or how does anybody else who doesn't partake in this sort of behaviour? Before anybody starts with the old "but motorists will stereotype us anyway" reply that usually comes with this sort of question, let me ask you one thing: do you really feel the need to contribute to the problem by claiming "we deserve it fully" publicly?


I also wish the selfish ones who only think about their own personal best, or who are racing to the next sign on the roadside, would be a little more global in their thinking...it does effect us all, there ramifications to their actions.

Which ramifications are you referring to particularly? This "it gives us all a bad name" assumption is one that nobody ever thinks to question, which is something I find extremely ironic, given that those who perpetuate the assumption are the ones trying to second-guess the opinions of others. In short, how do you know that your actions annoy others? How do you know what anybody else is thinking? I'm not asking why you think they perceive you a certain way, I'm asking for a basis in fact.

The mere fact that one driver in x-number of cars honks or shouts abuse is far from conclusive proof. After all, what percentage of drivers actually do that anyway? 0.1%? Even if it's 5% (which I believe is quite an overestimate), how do you know that this is their motive? What if they're just in a bad mood? What if they're just anti-cyclist bigots who would have behaved that way regardless? Who are we to attempt to make judgements on what others are thinking?

Having said all of that, I don't think running red lights in traffic is a particularly sane thing to do. However, while there's a lot of ranting and raving about it on forums such as this one, what I never see is any practical suggestions on a) why it happens; and b) what can be done to solve it. Law enforcement is a good start, but merely "the same enforcement/penalties you get in a car" is not, in itself, going to solve the problem. After all, cyclists aren't the only ones who run red lights out there.

How about these for a couple of suggestions:

1. Let's have some kind of booklet distributed with every bike sold (be it at a bike shop, on-line or even X-Mart). Granted, not everyone will bother reading it, but it has to be better than nothing, which is what's available now.

2. What is so wrong with educating cyclists in the correct way to ride? Maybe it's just where I grew up, (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=11006) but I learned to obey the laws of the road and act like a vehicle when I was a kid. Even as a 12-year-old, the idea of riding on the footpath or running red lights was totally foreign to me. Would there be anything wrong with a decent education process in schools?

There's a big difference between running a gauntlet of cars, speeding through an apparently empty intersection, and carefully looking both ways before proceding through an intersection which is clear a block in either direction. I believe that I am being safe and respectful when I am "running" a red light for which I have slowed to 5 mph, and know to be clear of all traffic.

Despite the history of traffic laws, which were first fashioned for us reckless wheelmen, the traffic light was clearly designed specificly for cars. Until we can get rid of the polluting beasts, and switch to the more sensible roundabout, I think it's totally acceptable to avoid staring up at a red light, when there isn't any chance that the rider will get hurt, or confuse or surprise automobilists.

Two buddies, my girl and I were on a downtown ride a few weeks ago and she totally blew a light. This truck came feet from reaming her. -_- I was SO angry. I 'talked' to her for a long while afterwards. I didn't run the light. If I had, I would have been road-burger.


Despite the history of traffic laws, which were first fashioned for us reckless wheelmen, the traffic light was clearly designed specificly for cars. Until we can get rid of the polluting beasts, and switch to the more sensible roundabout, I think it's totally acceptable to avoid staring up at a red light, when there isn't any chance that the rider will get hurt, or confuse or surprise automobilists.

I used to be much more cavalier about red lights. I went if I thought it was safe. But several times, I misjudged traffic and could have been in an accident. Most of the honest red-light runners would admit that they've had similar experiences.

I believe that I am being safe and respectful when I am "running" a red light for which I have slowed to 5 mph, and know to be clear of all traffic.



After I come to a stop and scan for traffic, I often spot cyclists, pedestrialn, and even cars that were not obvious to me when I was in motion.

Paul

On my way to work (by bike), some idiot cyclist came up behind me at a downtown red light and stopped at my left. When there was a gap in cross traffic, he ran the red. I caught up with him at the next red, which, again, he ran when there was a gap in traffic. Once again, I caught him at the next red, where he was weaving in and out of stopped traffic through two lanes to get close to the light. The light turned green and traffic started moving around him. I caught up with him again just before I turned off the street. I yelled, "You ride like a maniac. You're going to get yourself killed." He yelled something back, which I did not hear.

Cyclists like this give as a bad name in two ways. First, they needlessly annoy motorists. Second, when they get killed, people use their accidents to show that cycling is dangerous.

The irony is, all his cheating did him no good. I waited for all the green lights and still kept up with him.

I will admit to 'weaving' at times. The people here(Duluth, Minnesota), drive so slow, a blind person could probably get to the destination faster. There are times, when, I will tell the traffic to pass me, especially during rush hour. The rest of the time, I am passing them. The only time, I have to really watch out, is when, there is a construction zone, that, has taken a two-lane one-way road and, turned it into a one-lane one-way road. Then, I have to get in the middle of the lane and, get in 24th http://www.specialized.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=5865 gear fast.

Both cycling and driving on the road are PRIVILEGES, NOT RIGHTS. Privileges can be revoked for violating the rules of the road. I wish all riders would follow the rules of the road -- my brother is one who didn't, and was killed for it! I also wish the selfish ones who only think about their own personal best, or who are racing to the next sign on the roadside, would be a little more global in their thinking...it does effect us all, there ramifications to their actions.

We, as cyclists, need to let our local police know that we want them to ticket violators, just as they would a driver.
I have already tried that and, they won't do it. At first, they are hamstrung(even though, they don't know it) because, the states' drivers manual says one thing and, the states' statutes say, the opposite. I am in touch with my state representative on this issue.