Classic & Vintage - Motobecane Grand Jubile

Last week I bargained myself a new in the box early Grand Jubile from a guy that sells used bikes. He had two, I bought both, both are missing their front and rear derailleurs and cranks. There seams to be some difference of opinions on what will fit these frames when it comes to rear derailleurs. Both have Campagnolo branded forged rear dropouts and I was told that both frames are pre-1974. (Several local bike shops who sold Motobecane bikes back in the day both said there were no pre-1974 Motobecane bikes).
Mine also has a glued on aluminum head badge, just a printed M on an aluminum plate. The stem measures 22mm and is branded GB, the handle bars say Made in England on the one end. (The bar tape, small parts, Atom pedals, and saddle are packaged separately. The saddle is padded leather, scripted with the Motobecane 'M' logo.
The wheels are Weinmann, sort of a convex shape, a bit on the wide side, with dimpled spoke holes. The spokes are all marked with an R on the hum end. The hubs are Normandy and dated 03 73, and 04 73. The brakes are Weinmann Center pulls.

All markings on the boxes are french, there is no English anywhere either on the box or manual. Both frames are what I'd call champagne in color, sort of a gold tinted silver color with red painted pin striping and lettering. The head tube is blood read, the frame and fork are tipped in chrome which appears to have been clear coated which makes it sort of dull. The front dropouts are Huret.

All of the older Grand Jubile bikes I see listed all list Huret rear dropouts, both of mine have Campagnolo dropouts. I found a catalog posted online and very little of these bikes match the catalogs from 1974 or 1975. I've yet to see another GJ with this head badge too. The only other pic I found of this head badge is at Velobase.com: http://velobase.com/VeloImages/Headbadges/5945EB06-06A8-4F5A-A4C3-11C7B5B69298.jpeg

I have two matched sets of Cyclone derailleurs new in the box I wish to use, or else I have a pair of new old stock Campagnolo Grand Sport derailleurs I could use on one of these. I've also got both Suntour and Campy bar end shifters to use.
Will these work on the Campy dropouts? I keep getting told that these came with Huret Grand Jubilee derailleurs, which I'm told means I need to stick with a Huret or at least a French rear derailleur? I don't know what these had when new.

Second, what crankset can I use? The bottom bracket and crank axles are Stronglight, 118mm, the BB is French threaded, but keep in mind both are brand new. I do have one Moto scripted crankset made in Japan, it's marked SR on the back side, and its new in the box but is only 165mm. Will I even notice the shorter crank arms? Will this work with the Stronglight cups?

I also have a pair of Stronglight 93 crank sets which I could use, both are 42-52 with 170mm arms, both are super light and look the part but I'm not sure what crank axle they need. The 118 looks like it may work. I keep getting told that these took a Stronglight 49D crankset. The guy that sold them to me didn't strip them, he claimed to have bought them to fix and flip but had concerns about them being all French threaded so he never bothered.
Who ever took the part off the bikes never un-boxed the bikes, both had only a window cut on each side were the parts were removed. The ends of both boxes were still sealed with staples. The boxes are also bigger than the bike boxes I'm used to seeing, they're longer and taller, the bikes were in the box with both wheels attached, the front wheel turned backwards, the bars down on the frame with the stem loose, cardboard padding over the top tube and the bars draped over, and the crank arms tied in place with a box with parts under the bike. The tires were flat, but pumped up and look perfect, the second bike is missing it's wheels, the guy sold them before I made the deal. I also realized that neither bike has it's upright brake levers. You have to drop down low to grab the brakes.
The bar tape is cloth, Veloluxe with rubber plugs, the cables are spiral type with red covering, and the seat post reads Simplex. Both frames have Reynolds 531 decals with the words Construit Avec on top, and 3 tubes Renforces on the bottom. The decal is square in shape, not rectangular like those I see listed for French bikes. Both decals are flaking away.

If these were pre 1974, could they have been bought in France? If so did they spec bikes differently for export than those sold there?
When did Motobecane start making the Grand Jubile?

Sounds like a nice find. Too bad the drivetrains are missing. I believe '74 was the first year for the Grand Jubile in the US. The catalog specs call for a Pivo bar and stem. Maybe the bikes you've got were bought overseas and brought in. Here's a link to a review of the bike when it was introduced.

http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_itemId=33112&g2_imageViewsIndex=1

Pictures?

I don't have a digital camera yet, I have to get a buddy to come over and snap some pics.
Does the fact that this has Campy rear dropouts mean I can use the Cyclone RD?
That article is the first I've seen Campy dropouts listed for the GJ, every place I went around here argued that it had to be a Grand Record frame with the wrong decals or something. My head badge, GB bars, GB stem, and seat is the only thing that don't match that article. My pedals are Atom but they're all alloy, no steel cages. It may well have come from France, the guy that I bought it from buys whole containers and travels around buying up old bikes and parts, so it may well be from France directly, or anywhere in Europe for that matter. He usually don't sell nice bikes cheap though, most are either low end and priced a bit high, or higher end bikes priced out of reach. He packs and ships a lot of bikes, I saw a lot of boxes packed up and headed overseas, many to Japan. He usually sells the big bikes cheaper, which I found odd as they seem to be the hardest to find. Both of these are 25" frames, perfect for me.

If the Cyclone derailleurs will work, then I'll jump right on the first bike and get it set up with a pair of bar end shifters and some newer tires. I put the originals away. The same with the fuzzy leather saddle, I'll use an Ideal or Brooks saddle. Can I use the Stronglight cups and an SR crank axle and use later Motobecane scripted cranks? Or should I just use the Stronglight 93 cranks I have?

What would the 165mm Motobecane crank arms I have been used on? Would I even notice the difference?

I have two 1976 Motobecane Grand Jubile Frames in my garage and one has Huret drops and the other has Campagnolo. They are identical otherwise. Grand Jubiles were supposed to have Huret, but who knows, maybe that day Pierre had one to many glasses of wine with lunch and he reached into the wrong bin.

But pictures are really the only way we can help. Take shots of the dropouts, headbadge, graphics, and the overall bike.

I'll have to try and get someone to take some pics, but it won't be till at least the weekend.
The dropouts are definitely Campagnolo, and a Suntour Cyclone threads into them and feels like it's threaded in there fine, about the same as on my other bikes.
The article posted above says they had Campy dropouts, the article disagrees with every catalog spec I've seen so far but it matches these frames. If Campy didn't make French dropouts that were like Huret dropouts, then the whole project got easier. If they did, then I'd say there's a chance this was made for French Jubile derailleurs.
I do see where it mentions on Velobase that the Jubile derailleur came as both french and standard dropout style mounting though.

Did Campy make french or Huret style dropouts?

The bike likely had Huret Jubilee derailleurs. My GJ is a '74. In '75 the GJ had a long cage rear derailleur. Otherwise it was pretty much equipped the same as '74.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/koskid/GJ-112408.jpg

Looking at the headbage on velo-it may be a top of the line champion-way better than the jubilee. Perhaps a jubile box was all they had for shipping. Can't wait to see the end of this mystery.

The bike likely had Huret Jubilee derailleurs. My GJ is a '74. In '75 the GJ had a long cage rear derailleur. Otherwise it was pretty much equipped the same as '74.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c298/koskid/GJ-112408.jpg

Ooo...that's a beauty DCK ! Very nice.

The bike likely had Huret Jubilee derailleurs. My GJ is a '74. In '75 the GJ had a long cage rear derailleur. Otherwise it was pretty much equipped the same as '74.
...

Both of these are the same basic bike as yours, only mine are more of a gold/silver color and my headbadge is different. Mine is definitely labeled Grand Jubile on the top tube in very boxy script type writing.

Does yours have Campy dropouts?

Pic examples of camp and huret hangers: (Hope this helps) 188722188723

Thanks for posting that review dck! I picked up a '74 Grand Jubilé about a year ago (and had one as a kid). The review confirms what I've found: the GJ rides great -- solid and smooth. Also, your '74 is gorgeous!

ibrokeitagain: senior member "auchencrow" knows a LOT about Grand Jubilés -- http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php/160073-auchencrow

Does yours have Campy dropouts?

Campy

Pic examples of camp and huret hangers: (Hope this helps) 188722188723
The dropouts on mine look like those on the left, that notch is almost at the bottom of the derailleur hanger. Does that mean I can use the Suntour Cyclone with no issues?
I stopped by a local bike shop and got a 3BT crank axle which seems to work for the Moto Scripted cranks, if not I have the Stronglight 93s. The Moto cranks are new, the 93s are used. Both look fine on the bike.
Are all Huret dropouts French? Are all Campy dropouts standard or British style? So it looks like it gets a Cyclone GT derailleur set, a Sedisport chain, (Came with the bike) one of the two cranks I have here.
I went ahead and swapped over the tires, I mounted up a set of IRC skinwall 27 1 1/4 tires and put the original Michelins away, and I started to mount the bar end shifters. It should be a sharp looking bike when it's done. It would be nice to have the original derailleurs, but it'll shift better with the Suntour Cyclones anyhow.

I also went with red cloth tresostar bar tape, and put the original that came with the bike away with the tires. I've thought about building the second bike up as original as possible and just boxing it up and saving it for future use. Ride one, save one for 20 or so years down the line. Their a bit rare to see now, it'll be rarer in 2030. I can take my time and hunt down all the original parts and pack it back up like brand new.

The left one is for a jubilee/here is where you need the guru advice. Since the cyclone is a long cage, it may work. The stop position will make it sit farther back than normal. So campy makes a hanger with a 4 o'clock stop evidently. Try it and see issue. I wonder if that nos gj on ebay came frome one of those bikes (lol) It's been on there a long time. Not even a set either @ around 200 beans. Thought you missed getting the other/ in the last post over in the 'whats it worth' thread. Cudo's on getting both. Good luck with the build.

I ended up getting the second bike, minus it's wheels after the fact, apparently the other buyer bailed out after he pulled the wheels off it. He then came up with another set of wheels, so in the end I ended up with two bikes, three sets of wheels, and no drive train components. The one set of wheels is different, it uses Weinmann Concave rims vs the wider dimpled type rims. The bike I'm actually going to do first is the one that he had out the box to remove it's wheels, the other will stay boxed and get put away.
When I hang the Cyclone derailleur on the GJ frame it looks fine? The dropouts really look a lot like the Suntour dropouts on my other bike here, that notch is in the same location. I've got two sets of Cyclone derailleurs, one GT and one short cage. I'm wondering if I even need the GT on this bike? It's only got a 14-28 Atom Freewheel. I always thought that a short cage could handle 28t in the rear just fine? It looks like one bike will get the Moto scripted cranks, and the other the Stronglight 93 crankset.

My dropouts are like the campy dropouts pictured on the left above, I was under the impression that this means I can use any derailleur other than Huret? The pic shows the Huret dropouts having that notch farther forward, which would mean the derailleur would face too far forward.
The part that I'm unclear on is that we always used to swap out lesser model Huret derailleurs for Japanese derailleurs all the time, the only bikes I knew this was an issue on was those with Huret dropouts?
Just going on trial and error, it looks like the Suntour derailleur fits fine.

My dropouts are like the campy dropouts pictured on the left above

The ones on the left are Huret, the ones on the right Campagnolo. They did make Jubillees to fit Campagnolo dropouts, and the black and red one I had came with Campagnolo dropouts.

For that bike, it'd be nice to use the Jubilees.

I believe '74 was the first year for the Grand Jubile in the US.

Great article. Seems like the Raleigh Competitions must have had the Huret Jubilees earlier than that?

250. Good buy!

Did Campy make french or Huret style dropouts?

No, Campagnolo made Campagnolo dropouts, which eventually became the standard.

What is the threading for the BB?

The ones on the left are Huret, the ones on the right Campagnolo. They did make Jubillees to fit Campagnolo dropouts, and the black and red one I had came with Campagnolo dropouts.

For that bike, it'd be nice to use the Jubilees.

I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing here, the pic on the left looks like mine, if I open that pic it reads Brev. Campagnolo? The pic on the right reads huret right on the pic?
Somehow your seeing a different layout than I am here?

Mine definitely say Campagnolo on them, on both bikes. The Cyclone set will work fine and be more usable without any concern of ruining anything collectible. If I happen across a nice set of Jubilee derailleurs I'd probably put them aside for the second bike.

The bottom bracket cups are marked Stronglight 35 x 1.00. French threaded. The fixed cup is right hand threaded too. The headset is also French threaded and the top nut is marked Stronglight Competition. Both the BB and headset are brightly chromed.

Your Suntour derailleurs should work fine, most all of the Jubile models I've run across with Jubilee derailleurs had normal dropouts and were easily converted to Japanese components. I do believe that the model however existed before it came to the USA, I've run across a few older examples which were built even with Mafac brakes and various other derailleurs options, some not so common here. The last one I had was all Simplex equipped with a rather old style Simplex derailleur which looked similar to the Super LJ series. That one had Pivo bars and stem, a solid leather saddle marked only Made in France, and rims which looked like your Weinmann rims but with nothing but Made in France on the rim. My guess is that they began making that bike at least several years before it hit our shores. Keep something else in mind, we only saw Motobecane bikes in 1974 because that's when the US importer started to import them. Motobecane is a very old company with roots in both bikes and motorcycles.

That pentagon shaped aluminum head badge is rare, I was told that that was only used in 1974, whether or not it was used prior to that in France, I don't know, but they went to the round badge the second year they were here. With eBay these days, it's hard to say where your bikes came from, bikes get shipped all over the world, where as 20 years ago it was all but unheard of. If a bike made it hear back then, it was usually brought here by either US military personel, or a traveler who had it personally shipped here. Even mail order didn't span the globe like it does now.

I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing here, the pic on the left looks like mine

Oh, sorry, they're loading reversed to me. Just about anything not French (and some of those too) will fit Campagnolo, its become the standard.

Bump to revive a yearold post. What ever happened with this build? Never did get a peek at it (them) :(

Yeah I'd like to see some pictures of a minty fresh out of the box GJ.
I have been drooling over one for sale locally that just a little out of my budget right now. Been doing a little research on it.

If the OP didn't find this already here is the Motobecane Catalogs from 70-85
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Motobecane/

I came across a 25" frameset about a month ago that I had squirreled away years ago, its in super nice condition. I found it at a bike shop in NY about 10 years ago, it had been stripped of it's derailleurs and shifters. It too has the older hex shaped 'M' badge and Campy drops. The wheels are Weinmann dimpled with 27 x 1 1/4" skin wall tires, still in super nice shape. I doubt the bike was ever ridden, there's no wear on the rims, no wear on the tires, and the paint is almost perfect. Its silver with red trim like the bike shown above.

I'd sell either the frameset or the frameset and wheelset if anyone is interested, but it's most likely too big to ship for a reasonable rate though.
I may have a good used Stronglight crankset here somewhere for it too.

I was going to just build it with a set of Suntour Cyclone derailleurs with bar end shifters with a Stronglight crankset. I'd use a GB 110mm stem, with GB bars as were so common on these back then, and either a set of Weinmann or Mafac calipers. I could build it pretty much correct to the way it was when new other then the derailleurs with parts I have laying around.

I will jump in here with my 1978 Motobecane Grand Jubilee (http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/Feature_Bicycles/Feature_Bicycles_France/Motobecane_Gran_Jubilee/MOTOBECANE_GRAND_JUBILEE_1_Start.htm) and suggest that if your bike's frame sets are Reynolds 531, then you should fit the bike with French components. If the tube set is Vitus, then you can go Asian and install all the far east components you want.
http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/Bicycles_Table/French_Bicycles/Motobecane_Bicycles/Motobecane_Gran_Jubilee_57/Motobecane_GJ_57_Built/MotoBe_GJ_57_Built_Lug_ST_2.jpg

This is just an opinion based on some shallow researching I did when I found my Grand Jubilee at the Dump...

Agree with Randy, that's a good place to make the transition from French to Japanese components. I have a 1979ish Grand Jubile, Vitus frame, came with Cyclone Gen 1 derailleurs, and as I recall, SR Apex crankset (at least, that's what is on there now). And a Swiss bb naturally.

Moto GJ's went to Suntour even before they went from '531 to Vitus.
However the earlier hexagonal badge and Campag DO's on vintagebicycle's GJ indicate an earlier date, in which case French components would be more correct.

I owned a Jubile that was bought new in France, it was brought back by a buddy of mine back when we were in high school. He had gone there on vacation to visit relatives and came back with it. I bought it from him about 4 years later in almost un-ridden condition.
The bike was sort of a champagne silver color with red lettering, the wheels were wide, Weinmann dimpled, convex style rims with serrated brake surfaces.
The tires were Michelin, the cranks were Stronglight 93, the brakes were Mafac center pulls with safety levers, the derailleurs were Huret Allvit. I remember ribbing him that the bike was equipped with the same derailleurs as a Schwinn Varsity that year.
That bike had the little silver headbadge as well. He also owned a lesser model Motobecane that was bought here with a taller flat metal badge, but that bike was all green, but equipped with the same derailleurs. I probably still have the GJ around here someplace, I rode it for a few months and put it away after getting a new Raleigh Super Course. The GJ was clear coated top to bottom, it looked as if they clear coated it after it was assembled. I've seen several older Motobecane bikes done that way. Everything is clear coated but the rear derailleur, 531 decal, and handlebar and stem assembly. The headset, front derailleur clamp, seat post bolt, and fork are clear coated. Its a rather yellowish clear coat, it gives the bike a champagne color and makes the chrome look sort of gold. I've not seen this on bikes bought new in the United States.

Until I saw a few US sold bikes with the Huret Grand Jubilee derailleur, I never really associated the model name with the derailleur line, the hype back then was that it was an anniversary edition, thus the bright colors and odd headbadge.
I also owned a near matching Grand Record back then, it was the same color with the same red trim. It differed only in the model name and tubing decal, and the fact that it used tubular/700c size wheels. Both had Campy dropouts, although the sales brochure for 1974 clearly lists the dropouts as being Huret on the Grand Jubile. http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Motobecane/74/11_specs.jpg
It was sort of my assumption that they probably substituted frames when needed to meet the high demand back in the day. I had both my GJ and my GR apart at the same time, and the GJ was actually a few grams lighter than the GR, even though the GJ was a 25" frame, and the GR was a 24" frame.
They were weighed with the forks and headsets installed, and only the bottom bracket cups in the frame.
Other than the difference in brake bridge location and fork length, I couldn't see much difference in the two frames. I strongly preferred the GJ for everyday riding.

Zombie alert - partly to correct misinformation. 1974 was NOT the 1st year the Grand Jubilee was available in the U.S. I purchased one in San Bernadino, CA in the fall of 1972. My choice came down to the Moto or a Lambert "Aerospace" bike. Fortunately I passed up the opportunity to buy a bike equipped with the "death fork" and chose the Moto - still my favorite bike of all time.

I have a Grand Jubilee that I believe is '72 as it has the plastic shield headbadge. And Campagnolo dropouts. The Huret Jubilees were made for Campagnolo and Huret dropouts, fortunately I have a rear to fit.

I've had it powdercoated a beautiful silver, waiting for the weather to warm up to spray the red and add the decals.

I wouldn't be surprised if they used Grand Record frames for some of the Jubilees. That would explain the Campagnolo dropouts.