Touring - Tent weight, is 2.5kg too heavy?

I was looking in the camping shop today, and noticed a nice tent, a vango Tempest 200:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002ZDMLO8/ref=asc_df_B002ZDMLO81945374?smid=A1VZOM8D9TF7K0&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B002ZDMLO8

it's got a porch which is big enough for panniers, shoes etc, is green which is good for wild camping, is fly pitch first, which I like, and is good and sturdy. It gets really good write ups, and is in my price range. I can sit up in it, and there's plenty of room. the only downside is the weight. It's 2.5 kg, which is about 600 g heavier than my present tent - a North face tadpole.
I like the Tadpole, but mine is old now, and the groundsheet leaks, so it needs a footprint (more weight and messing about), and it's blue, so not so good for wild camping. It's also three poles which is a bit more messing about (though it's free standing, which is great). Bit the main drawback, other than it leaking, is that it's inner pitch first, which I've never liked.

So how much does your tent weigh, and is 2.5 kg too much for you (I know it's all subjective, but just interested, really)

Thanks

Phil

Cannot have space without weight. , hoop types worked for me , as they go up in a stiff breeze,
fly first or sewn so it's just 1 piece. stick in an anchor stake , insert poles ,
then pull tent up and set end stakes at same time. staying flat on the ground while being assembled
helped a lot..
I use polyethylene sheet for the footprint, cheap and as light as the stuff you choose
Drycleaning covering like thin or vapor barrier , building trades, thick.

Will you be using it solo or with someone else? The tents I use for solo bike touring are 1.1 and 1.8 kg, non-freestanding. I usually take the lighter one even though it doesn't have enough headroom for me to sit up. Also have a 2.3 kg freestanding tent but haven't used it for cycle touring.

2.5kg seems a little on the high side to me if you'll be using it solo. I'm surprised that it weighs that much since usually non-freestanding designs are lighter.

To each his own but I have set my limit for a solo tent used for bike packing at ~3 lbs. or 1.3kg if you prefer. And thats pushing it, to me.

My tent is about 2.5 kg also, two man, and free standing. I can use it when I tour with my wife, or I can use it alone.

2.5 kg is about 5.5 lbs. That is on the heavy side for a solo tent, but it's certainly doable if it has all the features you want. It really depends on what you need from the tent, where you are going, the climate, how long the trip is, etc. If you're going on a summer trip in areas where you know you probably won't encounter any extreme cold or stormy weather, then a very lightweight tent is probably a better option. Why carry the extra weight if you don't have to? But perhaps you are going on a trip in the Spring or Autumn, in areas where it might get nasty (e.g. the Rockies or Yellowstone), or if you just want the extra space, or whatever, then a heavier tent can work for you. Every tent is a compromise, you just have to work out what compromises you're comfortable with. What's that saying? Something like "light weight, high performance, low cost - pick any two". So for many people, their absolute no-compromise criteria is the low weight, and that determines which tent they take. But others like to have a tent that will see them through rough weather, or give them more space, and they end up with a different tent. I think regardless of your preferences, you probably don't want a super heavy tent on a bike tour, but 5.5. lbs isn't insanely heavy. I just bought a Hilleberg Soulo (4.5 lbs) which I will probably use for solo trips, and an Allak (7 lbs) which I plan on using when touring with my wife. Both are heavier than what many people would care to stand, but I like the fact that these tents are strong, freestanding, and will stand up to just about any weather that I would care to be out in. I would probably take something lighter and more airy if I was going anywhere very hot and very humid, though - you always have to figure into the equation where the tent will be used.

Neil

The tent that I'm going to use is borderline 3.5 kg or around 7 lbs. The difference is, its a tent that I already own. Unfortunately, I just can't justify putting down some serious $$$ to save 3-4 pounds right now. I say go for it.

Others to consider :
http://www.hilleberg.se/products/akto

http://www.hennessyhammock.com/catalogue.html

http://www.tarptent.com/index.html

http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=38&p_id=2322296

http://warmlite.com/warmlite-climbers-two-person-tent,
or slightly longer,
http://warmlite.com/warmlite-two-person-tent.
the latter 2, custom made , you pick color and options,

i reckon the only time weight matters is when your climbing,i use the hilleberg akto pretty light tent but not a lot of room in it,i bought second hand a mountain hardware spear 2 man tent couple months back ,way heaver than the akto but twice as much room .but twice as heavy.
now i know for a fact when i load my bike up the only time i will be punished for carrying the extra weight is when i'm climbing a hill other than that the extra weight is not an issue.
i had this mad idea a while ago to get myself a custom frame as light as possible and change to 700c wheels .but to be honest i'm glad i was talked out of it , at the end of the day it's the pilot that makes the difference ,
so i would advise to go for that tent to hell with the extra weight you wont notice it if you stay on flat roads which of course is impossible, but think of how happy you will be at the end of a hard cycling day stretched out in you Hugh tent .

I was looking in the camping shop today, and noticed a nice tent, a vango Tempest 200:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002ZDMLO8/ref=asc_df_B002ZDMLO81945374?smid=A1VZOM8D9TF7K0&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B002ZDMLO8
it's got a porch which is big enough for panniers, shoes etc, is green which is good for wild camping, is fly pitch first, which I like, and is good and sturdy. It gets really good write ups, and is in my price range. I can sit up in it, and there's plenty of room. the only downside is the weight. It's 2.5 kg, which is about 600 g heavier than my present tent - a North face tadpole.I like the Tadpole, but mine is old now, and the groundsheet leaks, so it needs a footprint (more weight and messing about), and it's blue, so not so good for wild camping. It's also three poles which is a bit more messing about (though it's free standing, which is great). Bit the main drawback, other than it leaking, is that it's inner pitch first, which I've never liked.So how much does your tent weigh, and is 2.5 kg too much for you (I know it's all subjective, but just interested, really)Thanks
Phil

I think you would be very happy with that tent.

Thanks for the input, chaps. Prathmann, yes it's for solo. I do have another tent, which is only 1.5 kg, really easy to put up, beautifully small, but the trouble is, I have certain issues with it. For one, it's side opening, which I really don't like, and there's precious little porch, but mainly, after I've zipped it up and I lay there staring at the inner about a foot away from my face, I can't help thinking this must be what it's like to be six feet under. There isn't any joy to it. I tried the Vango tempest instore and it felt like I had space to live, rather than space to exist.
I think a lot of the weight is die to its sturdyness. it's something like 3000 head, so bombproof, and I do like the idea of having a tent that can cope with anything. I've had tents in the past where I've woken up with the sides slapping me in the face when the wind's picked up, or where when the heavens have opened and I've woken up with creeping damp from the feet end of my sleeping bag. I may never tour in any real extremes, but I live in the UK, which while a pretty moderate climate on the whole, can really pull some bad weather out of the bag at the drop of a hat, and I do like the idea of a tent which keeps me dry and won't have me out in all weathers lashing down flysheets.

I have been looking at tents for awhile, but still haven't bought one. I'm leaning towards the REI Quarter Dome T2, which is a 2 person tent. Minimum weight is just under 4 lbs, but that doesn't include a footprint. It seems very similar to the MSR Hubba Hubba. The MSR Hubba (1 person) is a min weight of just under 3 lbs, again without a footprint. Not sure what a footprint weights, but probably 8 to 12 oz.

Things I want in a tent:
I want it to be a tent with a zipper and ventilation to let air in and keep bugs out
I want a footprint and a fly
I want to be able to sit up comfortably
I want a vestibule large enough so that I'm not stepping right out into the weather

With those criteria in mind, I don't see how I can get a lighter weight tent anywhere.

I could get all this in a 1 person tent, but even though I really make an effort to conserve weight, the extra pound for all the extra interior space is a tradeoff that I am more than happy to make.

The Vango looks to be a nice tent. Large enough for you and gear. Little on the heavy side, but as you mentioned, should translate to durability and strength. Doesn't seem to be available in the US.

I tend to be more concerned about bulk and utility than weight. Slow going up, fast coming down.

It really all just depends on your style of touring. Some shoot for pure comfort, while others go for light. My current solo tent weighs .56kg, and I made it myself so it only cost about $70. It has enough room for me + my gear, and I have a rain cover for my bike which stays right up against the tent.

I have 2 tents that I tour with, the heavier one tops out around 4kg (9#), but that is for a Eureka Timberline 4 with annex fly and vestibule. It is my bad weather tent, I primarily use it late or early in the season when I run the risk of being stuck inside for a couple of days. My smallest tent weighs in around 1.7kg (~3.75#) It is strictly for solo use and I would hate to be cooped up in it for a full day. It is some version of the Coleman Exponent Inyo.

Everybody is going to have their favorites, I worry less about weight and more about utility and comfort.

Aaron :)

That's a good looking tent. It's floorspace is adequate for 2 people so when traveling with someone, your tent weight is only 1.25 kgs per person. This is very good. I used a Eureka Timberline for nearly 30 years until the floor wore out. It is an excellent, inexpensive two person tent that is still available. I replaced it with a one person Marmot Eclipse which I had for 6 years. It was excellent when the weather was good but I could not bring my gear inside if it rained. I sold it last year and purchased a two person MSR Hubba Hubba. It weighs 2.5 kgs total. It is made with a little more finesse than the Eureka Timberline and the price reflects this.

I'm convinced that there is no 'perfect' tent. Go with the one you've picked and forgetaboutit.

Personally i don't think it's too heavy. However, if I was on a touring time trial (surely an oxymoron, yes?), or going up and down mountains all day for all of my tours, maybe yes. I also agree that I'm more convinced that bulk is a more important factor -at least to a point -compared to weight. I like to have a tent that I can pack in a pannier (if I leave the bike locked up, I like to take just one pannier with me if I feel the need to -usually containing my most expensive items: tent, sleeping bag, mat and stove -the other pannier has my clothes and dirty smelly laundry in -surely a good theft deterrent, and more easily replaceable for me).

Having said that, I would also prefer a freestanding tent.....but I 100% agree with what skilsaw posted:



I'm convinced that there is no 'perfect' tent. Go with the one you've picked and forgetaboutit.

I used to tour with a 7lb tent, 2 person, just cuz thats what I had. I too prefer room to sit up if caught in a rainy day and want to take a break, but all in all, Iused it cuz thats what I had.

I would look for a lighter one now if touring on my own, but this old tent still works well for my wife and I so would still be useable. I am however really impressed with how small, lighter tent designs are often in the 3-4 lb range.

i'd probably get shot for trying to tour with a 6lb, 6oz rated 3 man tent - for a solo trip!

i got the big agnes slide mountain for a closeout sale of 334 USD a year ago, but that was in anticipation of having some extra room with the girlfriend. now that there's no girlfriend, and i bought over the tent from her, i could always share room with a decent camper. but i admit, if i had a lighter 2 man tent, i'd definitely prefer to use it instead, will be much easier to pack up i suppose!

oh yes, big agnes is closing the same tent for USD 240 now *groans* and the 2P version for what, about USD 220, a decent deal i think. for my upcoming tour, i'm even doing an excel spreadsheet just to calculate the combined weight of all my kit. but no, i'm no weightweenie, nor sucker for punishment :-D

pack light and freeze at night. Or you can haul the tent if it makes you comfortable. Don't get wrapped around the axle over Kg or so... it's not gonna make a huge difference. If you prefer a spacious tent to a bivy and the stars: go for it. I prefer a bivy. But then again, I've lived out of a bivy for months on end and learned to love it. It's all in what makes your tour enjoyable...

I prefer a bivy. But then again, I've lived out of a bivy for months on end and learned to love it.

Could you please expand on this? I have thought about using a bivy on tour, in fact I got an Integral Designs Salathe, but it just seems very constrictive for anything but short term use. You can't really stretch out and spread your legs apart, which I find I want to do after a sweaty day in the saddle. And it's difficult to change your clothes with any privacy in campground situations. I like the lightness and simplicity of it, though, I just see it getting old quickly on a longer trip. How do you make it work?

oh yes, big agnes is closing the same tent for USD 240 now *groans* and the 2P version for what, about USD 220, a decent deal i think. for my upcoming tour, i'm even doing an excel spreadsheet just to calculate the combined weight of all my kit. but no, i'm no weightweenie, nor sucker for punishment :-D

Where do you see this close-out?

within reason - no - If it moves it goes

Wow, that sounds cool. Got any pictures?



It really all just depends on your style of touring. Some shoot for pure comfort, while others go for light. My current solo tent weighs .56kg, and I made it myself so it only cost about $70. It has enough room for me + my gear, and I have a rain cover for my bike which stays right up against the tent.

i'd probably get shot for trying to tour with a 6lb, 6oz rated 3 man tent - for a solo trip!


sehsuan--I did not clearly write in my post, but I did travel alone with my nearly 7 lb tent--I was single and thats the tent I had, was always hoping to meet a partner who would like outdoor stuff, and while I eventually did and she loves campiing, I bike toured carrying my heavy 2 or 3 person tent just because thats what I had....

yes, I was very careful of the total weight of my load, so I went very minimalist on all the rest of stuff, but in the end it worked out, so I too would recommend not getting too worked up over a tents weight.

however, your TOTAL loaded weight is important, super super important if in hilly and mountainous terrain.

like I said, if I were to tour solo again with tent, I would pick up a lighter one as there are so many good choices out there, with good designs that would work well in rain, but would easily be half the weight of my old tent. (and from what I have seen, there are ones that are fairly light and not super expensive too)

personally, I prefer an ample spaced tent for being more comfy, having all my panniers in the tent with me, able to sit up etc. For me thats worth some more weight than something that weighs nothing but isnt fun to be in if you wait out a super rainy day or are sick etc.

Where do you see this close-out?

Ironically... not on REI, but rather on BA's site itself!

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/SlideMountainSL2closeout
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/SlideMountainSL3closeout

don't seem to see any footprints though! the only bad thing about the BOA reels is that the cords tend to get tangled while packed away... the good thing is also that these same reels make tensioning easier; so it's a 50-50 tie.

but the closeout prices are simple fantastic if i had NOT bought mine. urgh. the difference of 100 USD can already cover my shipping from USA to singapore! :cry:


sehsuan--I did not clearly write in my post, but I did travel alone with my nearly 7 lb tent--I was single and thats the tent I had, was always hoping to meet a partner who would like outdoor stuff, and while I eventually did and she loves campiing, I bike toured carrying my heavy 2 or 3 person tent just because thats what I had....

yes, I was very careful of the total weight of my load, so I went very minimalist on all the rest of stuff, but in the end it worked out, so I too would recommend not getting too worked up over a tents weight.

however, your TOTAL loaded weight is important, super super important if in hilly and mountainous terrain.

like I said, if I were to tour solo again with tent, I would pick up a lighter one as there are so many good choices out there, with good designs that would work well in rain, but would easily be half the weight of my old tent. (and from what I have seen, there are ones that are fairly light and not super expensive too)

personally, I prefer an ample spaced tent for being more comfy, having all my panniers in the tent with me, able to sit up etc. For me thats worth some more weight than something that weighs nothing but isnt fun to be in if you wait out a super rainy day or are sick etc.

yup, i read your message :)

i'm not advocating 3P for a solo tour... almost had a girl friend join me. however i don't know if she's single - would have been swell to have a female companion on the ride!

Ironically... not on REI, but rather on BA's site itself!

http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/SlideMountainSL2closeout
http://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/SlideMountainSL3closeout

don't seem to see any footprints though! the only bad thing about the BOA reels is that the cords tend to get tangled while packed away... the good thing is also that these same reels make tensioning easier; so it's a 50-50 tie.

but the closeout prices are simple fantastic if i had NOT bought mine. urgh. the difference of 100 USD can already cover my shipping from USA to singapore! :cry:



yup, i read your message :)

i'm not advocating 3P for a solo tour... almost had a girl friend join me. however i don't know if she's single - would have been swell to have a female companion on the ride!

Thanks for that. I live in the UK, and I'm not sure the BA stuff is readily available here. Also, I've not got those bucks.
I've read really good things about BA's, but the weight involved in both those two tent, give or take, is pretty much what I'm dealing with with the tent I'm looking at. The ultralites on the BA page look really nice, but again, I just can't afford those prices.

Thanks for the input

Phil

Gotte,

BA aren't available here as well. From what I would fathom a guess for, they come up with design and contract a company to manufacture it to their specs in China; so you're right that they come up with about the same weight as most others. That being said, I'd honestly never get the tent I have now, if it were to go at the incredulous price of nearly USD 600... and it's NOT an ultralight! :eek:

Thanks sehsuan! Nothing there at the moment for me but it's good to know.

Thanks sehsuan! Nothing there at the moment for me but it's good to know.

pleasure's mine, mate!

Could you please expand on this? I have thought about using a bivy on tour, in fact I got an Integral Designs Salathe, but it just seems very constrictive for anything but short term use. You can't really stretch out and spread your legs apart, which I find I want to do after a sweaty day in the saddle. And it's difficult to change your clothes with any privacy in campground situations. I like the lightness and simplicity of it, though, I just see it getting old quickly on a longer trip. How do you make it work?

I use a military issue gore-tex bivy like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/USMC-Gortex-Bivy-Cover-/320650451469?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa8419a0d#ht_500wt_1156)

It isn't quite as "mummy cut" like most modern camping bivys are. That gives you more room for moving about inside of it (as you mentioned you prefer). When it's really cold, I pair it up with a Big Agnes Mystic down sleeping bag (again, not as "mummy cut" as most). During warmer months I'll just pack a space blanket and use that inside the bivy; using the bivy zipper to regulate temperature. Actually, my space blanket is a military issue poncho liner. You can't beat the ruggedness and reliability of the modern military issue garb. Of course this is at the cost of some ounces here and there (item for item with commercial products, that is).

And insofar as privacy: I'm a thin 6'3" and can change in the bivy, no problem.

I use a military issue gore-tex bivy like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/USMC-Gortex-Bivy-Cover-/320650451469?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa8419a0d#ht_500wt_1156)

It isn't quite as "mummy cut" like most modern camping bivys are. That gives you more room for moving about inside of it (as you mentioned you prefer). When it's really cold, I pair it up with a Big Agnes Mystic down sleeping bag (again, not as "mummy cut" as most). During warmer months I'll just pack a space blanket and use that inside the bivy; using the bivy zipper to regulate temperature. Actually, my space blanket is a military issue poncho liner. You can't beat the ruggedness and reliability of the modern military issue garb. Of course this is at the cost of some ounces here and there (item for item with commercial products, that is).

And insofar as privacy: I'm a thin 6'3" and can change in the bivy, no problem.

Thanks, that's really interesting. Just out of curiosity (if this isn't too prying) - how old are you, and do you have a military background? I ask because I think younger people are probably more likely to be ok with the compromises of the bivy (I think as you get older, you want a little bit more comfort), and also military types seem to be hardened to this type of existence, whereas most civilians are a lot softer and want the luxury of the tent. So I guess the context matters a bit - these things will appeal to different people, at different stages in their life. Or maybe not, it's just a thought.

I like the look of the USMC bag you linked to. I wonder how heavy it is, they don't say in the ad.

Also interesting that you use a down bag with this setup - my understanding has been that bivies can produce a lot of condensation, and the fabric presses down somewhat on the bag (thus reducing loft), both of which point more to synthetic fill bags being good for bivy use. I had a chat with the guy who owns Integral Designs about his Salathe bivy, and he confirmed that synthetic often does better in that situation.

Anyway, thanks again - very intriguing, I'm going to have to try this out myself sometime. What do you do in the rain - do you also take a tarp to cover at least the head area? Or just close it up (though then you get a lot of condensation)?

Neil

Others to consider :
http://www.hilleberg.se/products/akto

http://www.hennessyhammock.com/catalogue.html

http://www.tarptent.com/index.html

http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_int.nsf

http://www.montbell.us/products/disp.php?cat_id=38&p_id=2322296

http://warmlite.com/warmlite-climbers-two-person-tent,
or slightly longer,
http://warmlite.com/warmlite-two-person-tent.
the latter 2, custom made , you pick color and options,

The Warmlites look quite interesting from the design and features perspective (including weight). It looks like they've been around since the 70s. The weird thing is that I had never heard of this company and their products. Since prices are in the same range with Hilleberg's, I wonder how their tents compare/differ as far as durability, wind resistance, etc. Lately, I've been researching and comparing high-end tents and it seems to me that nothing beats Hilleberg. Am I right?

Lately, I've been researching and comparing high-end tents and it seems to me that nothing beats Hilleberg. Am I right?

I recently bought both a Soulo and Allak, and I like them both so far (one is for solo use, the other for couple touring). I've also had a good look at the Staika, Nammatj 3 GT and Nallo 2. I think the Soulo & Allak are probably the best tents out of the ones I've tried so far (including other brands)... for me. Personally, I value weatherproofness and quality of build, and I can accept a pound or two weight penalty for that. Even so, I might hesitate to take these tents to very hot and/or humid regions - they're just not made for that type of environment. Horses for courses, as always.

When you say "best", that can mean many different things to different people. For example, many consider light weight to be the overriding most important aspect for a tent; for them, I doubt Hilleberg would be the best choice - they tend to be on the heavy side (in absolute terms, though perhaps light when compared to other 4 season expedition tents). If you are talking about quality of construction and bad weather performance, then Hilleberg is near or at the top of the heap - after all, their tents are used by Arctic and Antarctic expeditions, and the ones they use are the same ones we buy (i.e. production - not made any differently).

You need to figure out what your priorities are, and then find a tent that matches those priorities. If you're looking for light weight above all else, then a TarpTent or something in the MSR Hubba Hubba class might be good. If you want weather performance, then Hilleberg can do that. If you want affordable price, then Hilleberg is not so great - $750 for a tent is quite a stretch for many (some of their tents are admittedly cheaper - e.g. the solo Akto is more like $420). If you want a lot of space most of all, then you probably go with one of the tunnel tents rather than a freestanding. If you want the ability to put the tent up anywhere, regardless of how hard and rocky the ground is, then freestanding may appeal. There's all these different aspects, no one tent can be "best" for everybody.

Neil

wise tent words.
I've camped my whole life so its easier for me to have an idea of what my priorities are (freestanding, "stuck-in-during-sick-or-rain-day" comfort, good ventilation as I am usually camping in warm weather etc)

all in all though, tent designs and pricing vs what you get, seem to me to be much better than before, and offer some good options for bike tourers.

Its not too heavy if what you want is living space and durability. I have a crazy light solo tent that I wouldn't trust to take on a summer long trip, but my north face tadpole I would. In bad weather the extra space really makes a difference when you are stuck in there all day or want to be able to get in and out without getting you stuff inside wet or muddy

Its not too heavy if what you want is living space and durability. I have a crazy light solo tent that I wouldn't trust to take on a summer long trip, but my north face tadpole I would. In bad weather the extra space really makes a difference when you are stuck in there all day or want to be able to get in and out without getting you stuff inside wet or muddy

You know, ironically, I have a THF tadpole, also. It's old now, but that's actully a good thing for me, as it's not all mesh inside, which is good for colder climes, and I hear the quality of more modern TNF stuff is not what it was. The only downsides with my tadpole are that the groundsheet is not fully waterproof now, though that's easily fixes with a survival blanket footprint, and it's blue (plan on wild camping, so too obvious). First I experimented with stretching a tarp over it and pegging it down so it formed a second (green) fly. this worked so well, that I tried putting custom eylets in the tarp at the pole pints, and found I could fix it pretty much like a normal fly. Now all I have to do is a bit of cutting down to fit the profile of the tent, and then fashioning a porch which I can also pole up as a canopy for cooking under, and I'm sorted. Minus the original fly and with the tarp, it comes in at about 2.2 kg, which is lighter than the vango (even if I take the fly as well, it's 2.6 kg, which is actually only 100g heavier than the Vango).

That said, I did come across this, which I really liked the look of.

http://www.cheaptents.com/acatalog/snugpak-scorpion-2-tent.html

Thanks, that's really interesting. Just out of curiosity (if this isn't too prying) - how old are you, and do you have a military background? I ask because I think younger people are probably more likely to be ok with the compromises of the bivy (I think as you get older, you want a little bit more comfort), and also military types seem to be hardened to this type of existence, whereas most civilians are a lot softer and want the luxury of the tent. So I guess the context matters a bit - these things will appeal to different people, at different stages in their life. Or maybe not, it's just a thought.

I like the look of the USMC bag you linked to. I wonder how heavy it is, they don't say in the ad.

Also interesting that you use a down bag with this setup - my understanding has been that bivies can produce a lot of condensation, and the fabric presses down somewhat on the bag (thus reducing loft), both of which point more to synthetic fill bags being good for bivy use. I had a chat with the guy who owns Integral Designs about his Salathe bivy, and he confirmed that synthetic often does better in that situation.

Anyway, thanks again - very intriguing, I'm going to have to try this out myself sometime. What do you do in the rain - do you also take a tarp to cover at least the head area? Or just close it up (though then you get a lot of condensation)?

Neil

Your impression is spot on. I am an early 30s formerly active Marine, so yes; my idea of "comfort" may be different than most. Don't let that turn you off completely to my recommendations though. I go out on my bike adventures to get away from all the "stuff" that fills my everyday life. Keeping my comfort items simple and to a minimum makes me appreciate the natural surroundings I camp in. It ain't about the high tech, whiz bang mat or tent or bag, it's about being simple, efficent, and involved in your surroundings. I actually like getting a little wet and finding a critter or two in my sack:lol:

I usually don't have a problem with condensation. I leave the bivy unzipped unless it gets too cold. Then I just zip it up in increments. A lot of the time I end up just laying on the bivy and I use the blanket or bag to keep me warm. Of course all that changes when it rains. If you zip the bivy all the way up and velcro the hood, it'll keep the rain out for the most part. If it's really coming down I'll get a little wet but not too bad. During the extreme cold or rainy weather I will get some condensation. And you're right, I'd be better off with a synthetic bag in those instances.

I'm not sure what it weighs. It seems pretty light but I could do my best to weigh it for you if you'd like:thumb:

Your impression is spot on. I am an early 30s formerly active Marine, so yes; my idea of "comfort" may be different than most. Don't let that turn you off completely to my recommendations though. I go out on my bike adventures to get away from all the "stuff" that fills my everyday life. Keeping my comfort items simple and to a minimum makes me appreciate the natural surroundings I camp in. It ain't about the high tech, whiz bang mat or tent or bag, it's about being simple, efficent, and involved in your surroundings. I actually like getting a little wet and finding a critter or two in my sack:lol:

I usually don't have a problem with condensation. I leave the bivy unzipped unless it gets too cold. Then I just zip it up in increments. A lot of the time I end up just laying on the bivy and I use the blanket or bag to keep me warm. Of course all that changes when it rains. If you zip the bivy all the way up and velcro the hood, it'll keep the rain out for the most part. If it's really coming down I'll get a little wet but not too bad. During the extreme cold or rainy weather I will get some condensation. And you're right, I'd be better off with a synthetic bag in those instances.

I'm not sure what it weighs. It seems pretty light but I could do my best to weigh it for you if you'd like:thumb:

This is great stuff - you should think about writing an article on your approach (maybe on crazyguyonabike, if you're so inclined). I think too often people tend to get lost (myself included) in the "gear game". Some good, well-informed back-to-basics advice on what works, from someone who knows what they're talking about, would be very much welcomed.

I don't know when I'll be able to go on tour next, but you've definitely got me thinking about bivies again. When I get the chance, I think I'll search out one of those USMC gore-tex covers. They look simple and effective... if you're willing to put up with the compromises in comfort, and that's the interesting part - how far we can push ourselves out of our comfort zone, and what motivates us to do that, and whether we can still enjoy it all while it's happening. I read once that a big part of survival is an ability to "walk in parks" - i.e. to appreciate the natural beauty of your surroundings, even when you are in life threatening survival situations. That alway stuck with me... it's not always easy, but I think I understand what they are on about.

Thanks!

Neil

When I was younger, suffering was heroic. We toughed it out and told great stories later.
Now I'm older, and my philosophy is that suffering is optional. I take a comfortable tent, thermarest matress and down sleeping bag. My bones thank me in the morning.

When I was younger, suffering was heroic. We toughed it out and told great stories later.
Now I'm older, and my philosophy is that suffering is optional. I take a comfortable tent, thermarest matress and down sleeping bag. My bones thank me in the morning.

I agree, but there is a definite trend toward lighter weight "bike packing", and I can see the benefits (and the shortcomings - everything's a compromise). There was even an article about this in the latest Adventure Cyclist magazine. There is something undeniably attractive about not being laden down with tons of gear - you travel light and freeze at night, I think is the saying. I've never been able to figure out if that saying is a criticism or a recommendation, though...

Neil

Y'all seem like a bunch of ultralight tourers to me... :D

My first own tent needed to be big enough for two plus gear, and weight was not a priority consideration. I bought a 4+kg dome tent, the exact model is no longer available. I could only afford one good tent, so I hauled the contraption on my solo bike tours too, and grew to like the extra space and comfort. It's been very durable so I haven't had any reason to buy another one. I did later buy a Hennessy Hammock for solo shelter, but I still prefer the tent when it's cold.

I still think a couple of kgs difference doesn't matter much when I'm cycling or kayaking. If I did more hiking / XC ski touring, I'd probably think again.

--J