Road Cycling - Reaching too far?

In the matter of position, what “angle” is proper for your upper arm when seated and in the drops? For example if you were really super cramped they would be “less than vertical” angling in towards your body – in a position no-one should ever ride in probably, or are they vertical (point between your shoulder and elbow), or are you stretched out to the point your elbows are actually in front of your head? Mine are way out there (even on the hoods, and in the drops is just ridiculous (to me)). Thanks.

I am Skyline_Dougie and I approved this message.

You should be able to have your elbows 'unlocked' when in the drops without forcing it is something I have read.

My top tube length is 585mm and I'm 174cm. I get sore wrists, sore upper back, lower back and I dont think I'm using my glutes enough because of it.

when you are in your dropped position move your hands back to the hoods without raising your body. Your arms should have a good bend at the elboes. maybe near 90 degrees. watch the pro riders. they are in this position a good deal of the way. body in aero position, hands on hoods with arms bent at elbo. need good conditioning and good abs relative to upper body weight to ride this way but it is very comfortable.

If you are a newbie, try set your bike up so that your back is about 40-45 degrees from horizontal when riding on the bar flats. Ideally, the position you want to attain is flat and low - your back is parallel with the ground when you are in the drops. It takes time and not everybody can get that low and flat. Plenty of good riders/racers never do, but they get close. As you ride more and get more comfortable, you can install a longer stem and/or lower the stem.

Take a look at the top photo of Greg LeMond in this link.

http://www.cyclinghalloffame.com/riders/rider_bio.asp?rider_id=23

Your arms should be in exact opposition to your legs. The position of your elbow will depend on the length of your lower arm which varies from person to person. With the pedal at the beginning of its power stroke; (About 2 o’clock) if you draw a line from your hip joint to the pedal spindle. It should be parallel to a line drawn from your shoulder to the center of your hand on the drops. (In a normal tuck position.)

When you are making maximum effort you are pushing down on the pedals with more force than your body weight. The only thing holding you down is your arms holding the bars. Power is transmitted from the arms, through the shoulder and back muscles to the legs. If your arms a stretched out too far or your hands are not low enough it puts too much strain on the back and is often the cause of back ache on a long ride. It’s like carrying a heavy weight at arms length, the strain is on your back.

Have a friend eyeball your position when sitting as described above, or better still have someone take a picture and you can check it yourself. Just sit on the bike; lean against a wall or something; you don’t have to be moving.

surely if your as stretched out as LeMond there things start to get a bit squished and uncomfortable downstairs?

surely if your as stretched out as LeMond there things start to get a bit squished and uncomfortable downstairs?

Never had that problem. Proper fitting shorts manage to keep everything in it's place. Now, if you are wearing boxers and cargo pants....

Just took some measurements. By following Dave Moulton's advice, it is clear to see I am reaching too far. I took a digital pic of myself clipped in. Then opened it in Word, used the drawing tools to make accurate lines and it clearly shows I am about 10 degrees off parallel using the technique stated. Now then, I am using the factory 12cm stem, and have a 9cm ordered - Is this the only solution to this problem, or is there somewhere else to look? Thanks for all of the input so far.

In addition to the stem length you can use the front to back adjustment on your seat to change the distance you're looking at. Remember that this would also affect your leg/knee position relative to the pedal axel (not that it's the only critical thing).

After years of tweaking stem length and seat position, I've found myself most comfortable when I can do this: bend your arm 90 degrees at the elbow, keep wrist and fingers straight. Put the back of your elbow against the nose of the seat, and your fingers should be just reaching the handlebars next to the stem. Are you even close?

Depends how you define close. With my arm bent at 90d, rear of elbow touching the tip of the saddle (which is positioned just forward of midpoint on the rails), my middle finger is exactly at the stem cap bolt - 12cm short of the handle bars. Additionally - if it matters - the height of my bars are approx 3" below saddle height. And, as Dave Moulton alluded - my back does ache after lengthy rides. Suggestions?

I do not think there is such this as the right angle.. We all differ, as well as our riding styles, how much time we spend in the drops, etc.

If you're just starting out..
Find the best position while still in the Hoods. When you're comfortable with your "on the hood" position. Try using the drops.. If you feel too cramped, get a bar w/ more drop. If you feel you're too far, get a bar with lesser drop.

Do not use your seat to fine tune the reach. Try out several stems instead. Im sure you LBS mech will help you out with this.

Happy Riding! :)

dex

12 cm from the bars is a long distance to make up! Even when you go to shorter stem, you might have to move your seat forward on the rails, but keep an eye on your knee position so it doesn't get too screwed up. I have longer than average arms judging by the adjustments that always have to be made to suit jackets, and I'm comfortable on the hoods when I use my estimate above.

You've got a long combination of seat postion, top tube length and stem length.....and you're not changing the top tube lenght on the bike you have, so what else can you do?! raising the stem/bars to an inch below the seat height would also help a bit.

You should be able to have your elbows 'unlocked' when in the drops without forcing it is something I have read.

My top tube length is 585mm and I'm 174cm. I get sore wrists, sore upper back, lower back and I dont think I'm using my glutes enough because of it.
Scoz, everbody's different, but FWIW, I am 189.5 cm tall and have a bike with a 600mm TT. 585mm seems pretty long for you, IMO.

Depends how you define close. With my arm bent at 90d, rear of elbow touching the tip of the saddle (which is positioned just forward of midpoint on the rails), my middle finger is exactly at the stem cap bolt - 12cm short of the handle bars. Additionally - if it matters - the height of my bars are approx 3" below saddle height. And, as Dave Moulton alluded - my back does ache after lengthy rides. Suggestions?
IMO, measuring your forearm to determine cockpit size is useless without accounting for torso length.

Dougie, check out this site for some info about angles on the bike. http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/bikefit.html

Thanks, I will check out that site. Also, I turned the handlebars clockwise from where they were so the flat part of the drops is only a degree or so from horizontal - this is way more comfortable to ride the drops now. It also has the effect of moving my hands closer to my body. I still fee cramped, but may try a saddle adjustment in addition to a shorter stem (though probably not as radical as a 9cm) too.

Which leads me to the next area of concern. I don't have much padding in the butt. After 15 miles, my sit bones are burning. I have tried firmer saddles - no help, and am now using a Serfas DD Vado (padded well with an ergo "hole") and I still have the same problem with the sit bones. The Serfas feels best for not making me numb, but my sit bones don't seem to appreciate the padding - what gives?

Scoz, everbody's different, but FWIW, I am 189.5 cm tall and have a bike with a 600mm TT. 585mm seems pretty long for you, IMO.

It was my first road bike buy and I guess I didnt know enough about sizing. Although I think the bikeshop from which I brought the bike should not have even allowed me to buy it. I couldnt get a straight answer from the guy, so I had to decide. I just thought the 'medium' Giant looked really small, but it was the one I should have chosen.

I'm looking for a new bike at the moment anyway. Needless to say I wont be going to the same bikeshop. But I'll be sure to wheel the new one into his store just to show him I took my business elsewhere.

When you are making maximum effort you are pushing down on the pedals with more force than your body weight. The only thing holding you down is your arms holding the bars. Power is transmitted from the arms, through the shoulder and back muscles to the legs. .

And who says arm strength isn't important?.....and now to my next point.

If your arms a stretched out too far or your hands are not low enough it puts too much strain on the back and is often the cause of back ache on a long ride.

....."or your hands are not low enough".....Exactly my point Dave. Having your hands not low enough is bad for many reasons including aerodynamics (good aerodynamics ensure high efficiecy of power usage and save you legs for "attacks" and "climbs"

Which Begs the question....Why Am the one of the few riders out there with Deep Drop Positioning? Answer: Because I am one of the few riders with sufficient arm Strength to stay in a Very Deep Drop comfortably for Extended periods.

Chalk another Victory to 53-11 ATW and his arm strength...and thank you 46 cm c-to-c bars. Looks like Arm strength isn't dead weight after all.....but then again I knew my complete and balanced physical prowess would prevail over my skinny unbalanced competitors. I knew all the hours Repping 315 lbs on the bench press would come in handy.

....but then again I knew my complete and balanced physical prowess would prevail over my skinny unbalanced competitors. I knew all the hours Repping 315 lbs on the bench press would come in handy.

Someone forgot to take his medication again. :)