Fifty Plus (50+) - Contador

Spanish fed clears Alberto Contador, Contador plans to start Algarve (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/02/news/it%e2%80%99s-official-spanish-fed-clears-contador_159920#)

I'd be amazed if the WADA let it go.

SP
Bend, OR

I think I'll make some popcorn and head over to the Professional Cycling forum to watch the fireworks. :lol:

:popcorn

In other news, Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis have applied for Spanish citizenship.

In other news, Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis have applied for Spanish citizenship.

And Lance is thinking about it.

Those darned druggie cows in Spain framed him. I wonder how the cows got the blood bag plastic?

Doped or not, I still love watching that man climb.

What's your beef with this?

I see what you did there.:p

Conta-who???

Those darned druggie cows in Spain framed him. I wonder how the cows got the blood bag plastic?.

From eating Easter grass?

Spanish FEDS or Spanish fed cows, I'm comfused..... Who cleared Zoro, er Contador?

Those darned druggie cows in Spain framed him. I wonder how the cows got the blood bag plastic?


Doped or not, I still love watching that man climb.

Somehow a great Chick-fil-A ad could be made out of this post. Cows parachute in on Floyd Landis while he is riding in a Spanish national jersey.

Here is what I think the US response should be... Today, the USADA reviewed Floyd Landis' A and B samples and based upon the Contador findings determined that Landis' urine was contaminated by chamois cream he purchased in Spain. The USADA further determined that Landis' confession was a result of stress and delusion associated with the cream. He has been officially reinstated into pro cycling and now designated the winner of the 2006 TdF. President Obama apologized to Landis and instructed the DOJ to stop any investigation into Armstrong' activities.

Even more exciting than I had imagined! It is turning into a nationalism battle! My country, right or wrong! :rolleyes:

Why did you have to use Obama's name?

Crap, I see all I want of him on Fox!

I'd like to see him on Judge Judy:lol:

I'd like to see him on Judge Judy:lol:

Contador, or Obama?

I think I'll make some popcorn and head over to the Professional Cycling forum to watch the fireworks. :lol:

:popcorn

See if you can find 2 seats together and I bring some dodas

Here is what I think the US response should be... Today, the USADA reviewed Floyd Landis' A and B samples and based upon the Contador findings determined that Landis' urine was contaminated by chamois cream he purchased in Spain. The USADA further determined that Landis' confession was a result of stress and delusion associated with the cream. He has been officially reinstated into pro cycling and now designated the winner of the 2006 TdF. President Obama apologized to Landis and instructed the DOJ to stop any investigation into Armstrong' activities.:)

Its not about the steaks. Its about how you marinate it.

I'd like to see him on Judge Judy:lol:
Contador and the Meat defense vs. Judge Judy

The guy who brought him the steaks was his good buddy, Dr. Ferrari, right?

As always, follow the money. Pro cycling and his new team could not afford to have him banned. It will be interesting to see how he does this year in the grand tours. Anybody that excels for 3 weeks at that level of performance is doing something beyond taking over the counter vitamins and eating right.

Mark

Spain has cleared him, but WADA and UCI (and of course Judge Judy) have 30 days to respond. He isn't out of the clen fed cattle pen just yet.

Spain have cleared him and the UCI may follow suit. Don't think the fans will though. Very hard doing a TT with a pump thrown out of the crowd into his front wheel.

Just my bad luck.

I eat tainted meat and I'm puking along the side of the road. Contador eats some bad stuff and gets enough performance boost to win the TdF.

I'm going to have to start importing my burgers from Spain.

Those darned druggie cows in Spain framed him. I wonder how the cows got the blood bag plastic?

Doped or not, I still love watching that man climb.

He was the target of a great conspiracy.

When the steer was being trucked to the slaughter house in Northern Spain it passed over a roadside bomb planted by some Basque separatist. The mine detonated and rolled the truck over injuring the steer. Now in Europe animals have rights. Including prompt medical attention. So a local vet was called upon to treat the steer. Besides. The slaughterhouse does not accept dead animals. So the vet gave the steer 3 liters of whole blood from the local Bovine Blood Bank. Unfortunately the blood had been collected on a ranch in the canary Islands where clenbuterol has been used in cattle. Spanish police made a big bust on two of these islands right after the news broke about the finding of clenbuterol in AC. So since the whole bovine blood had been stored in PVC blood bags it was of course rich in the plasticizer commonly used in PVC blood bags besides the clenbuterol. Then the steer proceeded on its way to the slaughterhouse. Then slaughtered the following day which meant that the clenbuterol and blood bag plasticizer had worked through the meat but not be eliminated into the animal's kidneys and bladder. The Basques don't like the Spanish. A conspiracy to discredit a Spanish rider?

He was the target of a great conspiracy.

When the steer was being trucked to the slaughter house in Northern Spain it passed over a roadside bomb planted by some Basque separatist. The mine detonated and rolled the truck over injuring the steer. Now in Europe animals have rights. Including prompt medical attention. So a local vet was called upon to treat the steer. Besides. The slaughterhouse does not accept dead animals. So the vet gave the steer 3 liters of whole blood from the local Bovine Blood Bank. Unfortunately the blood had been collected on a ranch in the canary Islands where clenbuterol has been used in cattle. Spanish police made a big bust on two of these islands right after the news broke about the finding of clenbuterol in AC. So since the whole bovine blood had been stored in PVC blood bags it was of course rich in the plasticizer commonly used in PVC blood bags besides the clenbuterol. Then the steer proceeded on its way to the slaughterhouse. Then slaughtered the following day which meant that the clenbuterol and blood bag plasticizer had worked through the meat but not be eliminated into the animal's kidneys and bladder. The Basques don't like the Spanish. A conspiracy to discredit a Spanish rider?

That's brilliant. Now, for a follow-up I expect you to explain the JFK shooting and the 9/11 conspiracy. You can throw in a birth certificate story too, if you have time between book signings.:lol:

I know this won't be a popular post (and I'm sure not Spanish), but has anyone considered that Alberto may actually be innocent; that he may really be telling the truth?

Of course I know lots of pro cyclists dope (apparently some amateurs too), and I don't know that he's innocent, but neither do I know that he's guilty. We may never know unless he comes out with a Floyd-like confession after he retires (no, I admit, not likely).

Probably just a naive American notion I have, but to me, he's innocent until proven guilty.

Rick / OCRR

I know this won't be a popular post (and I'm sure not Spanish), but has anyone considered that Alberto may actually be innocent; that he may really be telling the truth?

Of course I know lots of pro cyclists dope (apparently some amateurs too), and I don't know that he's innocent, but neither do I know that he's guilty. We may never know unless he comes out with a Floyd-like confession after he retires (no, I admit, not likely).

Probably just a naive American notion I have, but to me, he's innocent until proven guilty.

Rick / OCRR

Rick,

The whole subject goes a bit deeper than that.

The issue is how far you you push the search for these substances in a rider's samples.
I spent 37 years in the PVC industry. From resin polymerization to fabrication of various PVC products.
In 1972 OSHA wanted a vinyl chloride monomer worker exposure limit of no detectable level. At the time the standard test could define parts per million accurately. But in development were machines that could measure parts per billion accurately. So the PVC resin production industry would have been caught in a trap with no outlet. Added to that was the fact that parts per billion were meaningless as far as plant worker health and safety went. Then what would happen if they developed a GC/MS able to measure parts per trillion?

So this whole no detectable level "specification" is in question. A specification that is meaningless as far as performance enhancement goes.

Some of the Internet debate in the finding of a particular type of plasticizer in AC's sample Is actually more important than the clenbuterol finding. It was a Spanish concern that put up the funding to look at this plasticizer issue. At this point in time it is not an approved test for anti-doping. but in the PVC and medical industries the test has been done for over 30 years. Part of my work in the PVC R&D group was to take apart samples of plasticized PVC film and sheeting and identify and quantify the various types of plasticizer used in a specific sample from a competitor.
The direction of the anti-doping lab was to show that the presence of a specific type of plasticizer pointed directly to the use of stored blood to be used in blood doping with one's own blood. The amount found in the AC sample was about 10 times what would be found in the general population samples. These sort of testing has been done in the past where stored blood has been used in accident treatment and surgery in hospitals. With some of the plasticizers you don't want high levels getting into the body. They measured amounts you would find after a simple saline solution drip versus a bag of whole blood versus general population "background noise" in the test from home exposure to plasticized PVC compounds. The one found in the AC sample sort of directly pointed to plasticized PVC blood bags.
So the idea is that minute traces of things like clenbuterol could indicate blood doping. Then any plasticizer above a certain level would constitute a second form of proof.

I know this won't be a popular post (and I'm sure not Spanish), but has anyone considered that Alberto may actually be innocent; that he may really be telling the truth?

Of course I know lots of pro cyclists dope (apparently some amateurs too), and I don't know that he's innocent, but neither do I know that he's guilty. We may never know unless he comes out with a Floyd-like confession after he retires (no, I admit, not likely).

Probably just a naive American notion I have, but to me, he's innocent until proven guilty.

Rick / OCRR

Excellent point, Rick. How easy is it for a trace element to get into your bloodstream?

how often are racers tested throughout the season? during Tour de France?

As far as we know both Landis and Contador had only one abmormal result. Is there a drug they would take to mask doping, and on one day the mask didnt work?

This reply is prompted by Whitenight's post.

The amount found in the AC sample was about 10 times what would be found in the general population samples.
Do you have a source for this? I've never been able to find the actual test result data.

I know this won't be a popular post (and I'm sure not Spanish), but has anyone considered that Alberto may actually be innocent; that he may really be telling the truth?...
Rick / OCRR

I'd be willing to bet the anti-doping establishment hasn't. They seem to be far more interested in convictions than the truth.

SP
Bend, OR

[FONT=Tahoma]Probably just a naive American notion I have, but to me, he's innocent until proven guilty.

Rick / OCRR

For many he was proven guilty the day he decided not to go along with the team's plan to promote Lance's interests above his own as team favorite.

Do you have a source for this? I've never been able to find the actual test result data.

There are a number of reports following the leaking of the testing data from the lab in Cologne, Germany that performed the tests.
In a Huffington Post article published 10/05/2010 the writer states that "Contador's abnormal sample showed eight times the normal amount of the plasticizer, the person said."

From an article in road.cc published 01 October 2010. "Other values have appeared that are ten times over the higher value from so-called plasticizers [such as di-(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate (DEHP) - ed.] which are used in blood bags."

Shortly after this thing about DEHP in the sample showed up on Velonews I saw a link to a paper published by a medical group in Spain. What caught my eye was that the work had been done at the request of the RFEC in Spain. This RFEC supplied the grant money for the work. The theme of the paper was that it could be possible to determine if an athlete transfused their own blood since this DEHP plasticizer level would point directly to it.

You might want to try to find:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19694994
The comments under Conclusion: are interesting.

"A specification that is meaningless as far as performance enhancement goes"

Not really. Some period of time might have been allowed to pass to clear detectable amounts of clenbuterol from the Contador's blood, before the blood was stored for use during the TdF. Except those responsible for carrying out this scheme were tripped up when the blood was shipped off to a lab with more sensitive testing capabilities.

"he was proven guilty the day he decided not to go along with the team's plan to promote Lance's interests above his own as team favorite"

That was in 2009. This issue dates from 2010.

"I don't know that he's innocent, but neither do I know that he's guilty"

There is no dispute that he had a banned substance in his body. How it got there is in question. It's not likely it came from tainted meat, and there's no way Contador can show that's where it came from.

He's a proven doper, no matter where the drug came from, and he deserves to lose the TdF crown and a two-year ban as a racer.

Do you have a source for this? I've never been able to find the actual test result data.

In my previous post I forgot to mention that there are other blood bags in use that are not fabricated using a plasticized PVC polymer. They don't like to use PVC blood bags with young children because of the plasticizer getting into the blood within the bag. One study suggests that high levels of the DEHP plasticizer in adolescent males may cause the growth of breasts along with other health issues.

No doubt those who want to IV blood for or during a race will simply switch the type of bag the blood is to be stored in. A synthetic polymer that would not add anything to the blood that would act as a "taggant". No doubt this whole plasticizer thing will die down quickly as other non-PVC bags start to be used.

I didn't know all this about the "Bags". I learned something!

"he was proven guilty the day he decided not to go along with the team's plan to promote Lance's interests above his own as team favorite"

That was in 2009. This issue dates from 2010.

You must have missed my point.

No doubt this whole plasticizer thing will die down quickly as other non-PVC bags start to be used.

You said it there! Now that they know PVC bags can be detected, they'll switch to something else. And you can bet their home testing capabilities will get more sensitive, to avoid embarrasing repeats of this incident. That's the nature of this cat-and-mouse game the dopers are playing with the officials. Someone develops a new or more sensitive test and nails one or two of them, then everyone learns how to circumvent the new test and the cycle starts over.

Do I believe the Contador story? Not for a minute.

It is turning into a nationalism battle! My country, right or wrong!

In 1969, Eddy Merckx failed a drug test after stage 16 of the Giro and was dismissed from the race.

The Belgian royal family sent their private plane to bring him home.

There are a number of reports following the leaking of the testing data from the lab in Cologne, Germany that performed the tests.
In a Huffington Post article published 10/05/2010 the writer states that "Contador's abnormal sample showed eight times the normal amount of the plasticizer, the person said."

From an article in road.cc published 01 October 2010. "Other values have appeared that are ten times over the higher value from so-called plasticizers [such as di-(2-ethylhexyl)phthalate (DEHP) - ed.] which are used in blood bags."
Again, vague, second- or third-hand reports (HuffPo can't distinguish between a compound and its metabolites). The question is has anyone ever seen an actual numerical value for the amount and type of plasticizer metabolites found in Contador's urine?

Again, vague, second- or third-hand reports (HuffPo can't distinguish between a compound and its metabolites). The question is has anyone ever seen an actual numerical value for the amount and type of plasticizer metabolites found in Contador's urine?

Back when this first broke the reported data from the lab in Germany was published. This is what the article refer to in a round about way. The lab itself was not about to publish any of the data under its name so they just sort of leaked it out.

The whole question with the blood bag plasticizer finding is an attempt by the anti-doping people to stop blood doping.
In the on-line PubMed abstract in screening for illicit blood doping.

"Results: Samples from four athletes showed increased concentrations of DEHP metabolites comparable to urinary concentrations of patients receiving blood transfusion."

" Conclusion: Elevated concentrations of urinary DEHP metabolites represent increased exposure to DEHP. High concentrations of DEHP metabolites present in urine collected from athletes may suggest illegal blood transfusion and can be used as a qualitative screening measure for blood doping."

Having worked in a PVC lab and then two years in a drug screening lab I was interested in why the lab in Germany was selected. Seems that this lab works in parts per trillion rather than just parts per million or parts per billion.

Then when I see the business about exposure to the various plasticizers I think back on how many shifts I spent in the PVC film and sheeting division working a roll mill where thousands of pounds of plasticized PVC compounds were being melted, mixed and fed into the calanders. Wonder how I would have rated in this type of testing?

For many he was proven guilty the day he decided not to go along with the team's plan to promote Lance's interests above his own as team favorite.

How about he was guilty from the day his sample came back POSITIVE. It is, or is supposed to be, a zero tolerance policy. No matter how it got there is a one year ban, two year if it can be proven accidental. At least the Chinese rider who tested positive had a real excuse since clen is still used in China. There was no evidence of clen found in Spain. A South African rider was also just banned for using clen.
This all sounds very much like what Landis said in his latest interview in that some riders are protected and others....

how often are racers tested throughout the season? during Tour de France?

As far as we know both Landis and Contador had only one abmormal result. Is there a drug they would take to mask doping, and on one day the mask didnt work?

This reply is prompted by Whitenight's post.
If they follow certain protocol's they can hide it for a long time.
“I was tested 200 times during my career (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/05/sports/cycling/05cycling.html), and 100 times I had drugs in my body,” he said. “I was caught, but 99 other times, I wasn’t. Riders think they can get away with doping because most of the time they do. Even if there is a new test for blood doping, I’m not even sure it will scare riders into stopping. The problem is just that bad.”
-Cyclist Bernard Kohl