Touring - CC Tour of Selkirk Loop?

Has anyone done the Selkirk Loop?

Is is doable for credit card tour? Are there enough hotels / B&Bs along the way or would I need to camp?

If there are hotels. What is the longest ride I would have to do to find a room? Would I need reservations? What would I expect to pay?

Can't ans any of your questions, but this sure is a cool map (http://www.selkirkloop.org/index.php/maps/bicycling-map). Looks like a place to put on the to do list.

Wow. Thanks for posting this. I live about 30 minutes away from the southernmost part of the loop, and I had never even heard of it. Needless to say, I will be doing it as soon as the weather gets good here. Awesome

Can't ans any of your questions, but this sure is a cool map (http://www.selkirkloop.org/index.php/maps/bicycling-map). Looks like a place to put on the to do list.

OP: The bicyle map and the guide that can be obtained through the above link will answer all your questions.

Spin,
here's a link to lodging:

http://selkirkloop.org/index.php/travel/lodging.html

Thanks. I was hoping someone could give me the thumb nail sketch on general lodging but I guess I will have to do some homework. :)

That looks like a great area to cycle, I want to pack up and head right out there. Its great when an area puts together information and mapping for a cycling vacation like this. Looks like I may have to reorder where I want to ride this year and put this up near the top.

Thanx's Spinnaker for bringing this area to our attention,

I've done the Selkirk Loop, by car as I live nearby, so I have no specific info to help you other to than to say it's an incredibly beautiful area, the roads are good and the people are very accommodating.

I've done the Selkirk Loop, by car as I live nearby, so I have no specific info to help you other to than to say it's an incredibly beautiful area, the roads are good and the people are very accommodating.

Any recommendation on best time to visit? I would guess that July/Aug are busy, but is it an endless parade of RV's on the road? How fast does the temperature drop off in Sept to early Oct?

Early october is pretty cold here in northern Idaho, and I'd imagine even colder once you get farther into Canada. I went on a backpacking trip last year in mid-september in the Selkirks, and we got snowed on pretty heavily. It all depends on the year though.

Early october is pretty cold here in northern Idaho, and I'd imagine even colder once you get farther into Canada. I went on a backpacking trip last year in mid-september in the Selkirks, and we got snowed on pretty heavily. It all depends on the year though.

Sounds like Vermont ;-)

I'll take cool/cold temp's over black fly season any day. I just hate June with all the black flies and mosquitoes hatching and being hungry.

Any recommendation on best time to visit? I would guess that July/Aug are busy, but is it an endless parade of RV's on the road? How fast does the temperature drop off in Sept to early Oct?

I live in Nelson BC and after looking at the Map, realized I have ridden most of it in sections except for the section between Bonners Ferry and Sandpoint.

As far as RV's I never found it to be a problem. What this loop is known for is motorcycles and it is one of the most popular motorcycle destinations in the NW. July 1st long weekend is crazy and I would definitely avoid that. I don't think I would attempt it in October and even September is hit or miss. We do a local ride called PAGE (Pedal Around a Glacier Eh) which is the first week of September. Some years we jump in the lake in New Denver, other years we are in line at the laundry mat drying clothes and trying to warm up. If your only reason to wait until then is to avoid RV traffic, I wouldn't worry about it since again, I really never noticed it as being bad and really had to think about it since you brought it up.

Just quickly, starting in Newport and working clockwise, there is a small motel between Ione and Metaline Falls, called the Box Canyon Resort or Motel. They get a lot of guests who are working out of town and I would call for a reservation. A little further north in Metaline Falls there is the Washington Hotel and a bit further north out of town is the Circle Motel. Metaline Falls is more of a town than Ione and very friendly in a redneck sort of way :lol: It really isn't much of a detour but I recommend crossing the bridge at Ione and going by Sullivan Lake. Very nice scenery but unfortunately you would bypass you motel options and it would require a little backtracking. Your next options for lodging would be Salmo and Nelson. Try to make it to Nelson since Salmo doesn't have much to offer and plan on a day or two in Nelson since it is a fun town to visit with a lot of heritage buildings. Hopefully you have the time to do the side loop which goes west then north to New Denver and then to Kaslo. IMO this section is the most scenic of the loop. From Nelson to New Denver is about a 70 mile day. There is B and B and two motels in New Denver. I recommend staying here (http://www.domequixote.com/). Plenty of places in Kaslo, inlcuding a Hostel, which would be a short ride, with a significant climb, but another great little town to hang out in. From Kaslo, you go south to Balfour then the ferry to Crawford Bay. Ainsworth Hotsprings is about 15 miles south of Kaslo and that could be another option. The only attraction here is the hotsprings so don't plan on a nice walk around town. I don't believe Balfour has accommodations and there really wouldn't be a reason to stay there since it is mainly known for the ferry landing and a couple of pubs. But there are several places to stay in Crawford Bay. After Crawford Bay, Creston would be your next option. There may be places in between Crawford Bay and Creston but I can't recall any. There are about 400 curves in the road between Crawford Bay and Creston so plan on seeing more than a few motorcycles. After Creston, Bonners Ferry would be the next stop and then Sandpoint. I haven't stayed in either place but they are your biggest little towns along the way.

Hwys 1/2/95 between Creston and Sandpoint will be the busiest section of road but the shoulder is decent.

Actually, going north from Newport, ask locals how to get on the east side of the river since there is a lot less traffic but either way is nice.

I have also ridden between Bonners Ferry, Troy, Libby, Clark Fork then to Sandpoint and this area is also very nice.

I should have asked what your mileage is but you can googlemap it. If you need more specifics let me know.

Thanks for the details. That is very helpful.

That looks like a great area to cycle, I want to pack up and head right out there. Its great when an area puts together information and mapping for a cycling vacation like this. Looks like I may have to reorder where I want to ride this year and put this up near the top.

Thanx's Spinnaker for bringing this area to our attention,

I'm meeting with my 2 buddies (I think you know who, one was on the GAP tour the other joined us for first day) on Saturday to discuss plans for this year. If both go on the trip, we could use a fourth if you are solo. It would make rooms easier. I can keep you in the loop.

Just want to say thanks for mentioning this loop & all the info, I'm keeping it in mind for future tours.

I'm meeting with my 2 buddies (I think you know who, one was on the GAP tour the other joined us for first day) on Saturday to discuss plans for this year. If both go on the trip, we could use a fourth if you are solo. It would make rooms easier. I can keep you in the loop.

That would be great Spinnaker, but my summer is booked up with work commitments or existing vacation plans. I can't get away until mid-Sept or later. From Aroundoz great information, that sounds like it may not be the best time to go, so I'll have to skip it this year. However, I'm looking forward to a great trip report from you if you do go.

If you are interested, here are my photos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc-rider/sets/72157615827691728/with/3379782353/) of a trip my wife I did which covers part of the Selkirk Loop. We extended our loop north and road through Meadow Creek, Trout Lake, and Nakusp. This area is absolutely fantastic with very little traffic (at least when we did it). The road is well graded dirt between Meadow Creek and Trout Lake and it was no problem for my wife to ride it with 700x32 tires. It still wouldn't be a problem to get lodging every night if this section interests you. There is also a neat little hostel (http://www.magicallodge.com/)in Beaton (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=beaton,+bc&aq=&sll=50.735739,-117.731234&sspn=0.212508,0.676346&g=beaton,+bc&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Beaton,+Columbia-Shuswap+Regional+District,+British+Columbia,+Canada&z=11) and the owner gives bike riders a discount. You would have to pack in food however and the road to the hostel is not improved.

Anyway, more than you asked for but if you are inclined to get off the pavement for a short distance, this area is very much worth it.

So in short, it is entirely doable to stay inside each night but it would be wise to plan ahead since the summer months usually have some kind of weekly event and places can fill up.

Thanks for the info aroundz. What is the best way to get there if you are from out of town? I assume fly into Spokane but not sure where from there.

Also if you did not take the side trips can it be done on a road bike with 28mm tires? And would it still be worth it?



I think there is a problem with your photo link.

You are right about flying into Spokane. I am not aware of any kind of public transportation that would get you north to the loop. If you have time, riding to Newport, or Colville, are both nice options and very worthy rides themselves. Hwy 2 to Newport has a really nice shoulder and it would be about a 50 mile ride. I used to live in Spokane for about 10 years and the road riding in this area is really excellent so there are good ways to get out of town. If you decide to do it, let me know and I can get you some detailed directions for the best way to ride north out of the city limits. Heck, if I have time, I can come down and meet you and at least lead you out of the city and get you going. If you are limited for time, you probably could rent a car one way to Newport or Colville.

AirCanada also flies into Castlegar BC which may also be an option for you.

The roads are great and you won't have a problem with 28mm tires. I ride the roads on my road bike w/ 23mm all the time. The only section with dirt is the one between Meadow Creek, north of Kaslo, and Trout Lake, and that is well off of the loop anyway. Just wanted to throw that out in case you or someone else found it appealing. Everything else is paved.

If I can help you out in anyway, let me know.

The link worked on my end but try this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc-rider/sets/72157615827691728/with/3379782353/

As aroundoz said, most any good tire will suffice on the roads you'll take. Bring tubes/patch kits though flats aren't common occurrences usually. Spokane is the nearest metropolitan center of any note and easy to get in and out of. My wife and I have ridden on many of the roads that you may take in Washington but our BC experiences are more limited. You WILL NEED YOUR PASSPORT if you plan on entering Canada, not so much for Canada as much as to re-entering the U.S.

Again as aroundoz said, getting to Newport would be problematic as there is no public transport to/from there but it's only about 50 easy miles from Spokane.

Depending on a lot of things, there could be a possibility that I could help you with *some* logistics. I live in Spokane, am very familiar with most of the Selkirk Loop part that is in Washington, have a pretty well equipped workshop for doing my bicycle stuff, have an equipped van for bicycle transport, etc. If you can rough some thoughts/dates/etc. out, PM me and then we can get together by e-mail and telephone. Again, I stress **depending**. Worst case scenario I can put you in touch with others (bike shops, bike clubs etc.) that might be able to help you also.
I think there is a problem with your photo link.

Wow! thanks guys! It is nice to know that I have local support :)

I was just going to ask if there was a place to ship our bikes. What I did for the PCH was to pre-ship the bike out using Fedex. That seemed to work really well until the return where they damaged the dropouts on my fork. Fedex ended up paying.

Ad yes Davet. Do not worry, I do understand "depends". I am in the same boat. I live within a mile or so of the Great Allegheny Passage and try to help BF members and Warmshowers members when i I can. If either of you ever want to do the GAP, just let me know. Of course I can only help out "depending". :)

If things fall through with you two there is always Warmshowers. I would imagine there are a number of members in Spokane.



I meet with my buddies this Saturday. I am gong to try to sell this. With the local support, it is definitely a plus.


Aroundz, you link does not appear to work. I get
"This is not the page you're looking for " I suspect this is a link for you. I know where I have my photos I have a private link for me and a public link for everyone else.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc-rider/sets/72157615827691728/with/3379782353/

Sorry about that and I will give it one more try. Hope it was worth the wait. All of the photos are public so not sure what the problem is.

Keep me posted and let us know if your friends buy into the plan. I can definitely be of service if you pass through Nelson and also have a bike stand, tools etc... but hopefully you won't need them. If Davet can't help in Spokane, also let me know since I am always looking for a reason to visit that area.

Spinnaker, I have ridden the loop loaded with camping gear on 28c tire, no problems at all. It was on a Jamis Nova, I weight about 180lbs if this helps you at all. Great ride, you'll enjoy it. Also if anyone is interested, the Rotary clubs on the loop sponser a sagged ride in Sept. I don't have a link,but if you google WaCaId, it should come up.
Cheers

Nope still did not work. It suggests I might want to go here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bc-rider/

Not sure if your pics are one of those albums.


I am going to suggest last week of August to first week September. That way we can take advantage of Memorial Day for a travel back day or recoup from vacation day. :) Is this a good couple of weeks? Weather? Anything special going on?



Thanks spinner I will also look at the sagged rides. Might be a selling point for my one friend. Is is 60 and 9 years older than me. He is an animal on the bike and can kick my butt any day but recently he has developed health issues and I think he is worried. He has already suggested we rent a car and do day rides from wherever this years trip is.

The only thing I do not like about organized rides is so many people. It makes finding a place to sleep and eat an extra hassle.

Last week of August/first week of September is typically really nice here. Like aroundoz, I live in Nelson. As for day rides I'm sure you could easily find a couple of weeks worth of dayrides in the area.

Last week of August/first week of September is typically really nice here. Like aroundoz, I live in Nelson. As for day rides I'm sure you could easily find a couple of weeks worth of dayrides in the area.

What about festivals and such that might bring an unusual amount of people to the area?

I'd like to not have to make reservations long term ahead of time. I really like rolling into a town and figuring it out from there. But I don't have a problem calling a day or two ahead. Any problems with that plan this time of year?

The above link sort of works. You just have to click on the set entitled "Honeymoon in the Kootenays" and that will give you a flavor for riding in this area. Sorry for being in some of the pictures.

I also like not having to make reservations but Labor Day weekend in the US coincides with the Canadian Labor weekend so places could be busy.

If you end up driving and doing day rides:

The ride I referred to above called PAGE (http://www.firstbaptist.kics.bc.ca/PAGE1.html), takes place the weekend after Labor Day and is a two ride. So if you are around, it would be good to have some people from far away join us. It starts in Nelson and usually goes counter clockwise to Kaslo, New Denver then back to Nelson and is fully supported.

That's also the same weekend as the Hill's Garlic Festival in New Denver and that small town sees about 4000 visitors but we are leaving on our bikes as they are arriving in their cars.

Another ride during that time is the Great Northwest Fall Tour (http://www.active.com/cycling/newport-wa/great-northwest-fall-tour-2010). I haven't ridden it but have heard good things about it.

Not sure of any other activities around that time but maybe Spinner can chime in if there are any.

FYI, there is a little bike tour company in Nelson, B.C., whose website advertises bike tours of the Selkirk Loop.

One of the things they offer is an "unsupported" tour -- you pay them some money, and they arrange all the motels for you along the route, and suggest an itinerary.

Not sure you would need this, but I think for folks who wanted lots of specificity and hand-holding, these folks would be a resource:

http://www.biketoursbc.ca/tour_info.htm

OK we are in! Baring any unforeseen circumstances we will be doing the loop last two weeks of August.

Is there any preference for doing the loop clockwise or counter clockwise?

I drove some of the loop today, and it is absolutely amazing. I can't believe that I have lived that close to the loop and never drove it. The part we drove was from Nelson to Creston over Kootenay pass. Some of the craziest scenery ive ever seen, especially in Creston.

Kootenay pass still had like 4 feet of snow near the top. An avalanche had just happened right before we got there.

If anyone does this loop, in Nelson be sure to hit up Mike's Pub. Great bar, and good local beer.

I'm thinking maybe about moving the date to a week after Labor Day (for a 10 days - 2 weeks trip). Is this pushing things too far into September for mild weather? It would be nice to avoid the crowds and stand a better chance of getting a room for the night.

If you overnight in Trail you might want to hit a resturant called the Colander for dinner, it's a all you can eat chicken and pasta place. I also recommend just ordering the house red to go with your meal. As to directions to the resturant just ask a local,everybody knows it.

I'm thinking maybe about moving the date to a week after Labor Day (for a 10 days - 2 weeks trip). Is this pushing things too far into September for mild weather? It would be nice to avoid the crowds and stand a better chance of getting a room for the night.

Pushing it...maybe a little but you will be fine especially since you will have a room to look forward to. I mentioned above that some years during our PAGE ride we are either jumping in the lake because it's so hot or trying to find a way to stay warm. But we aren't talking about a lot of consecutive days of bad weather. A couple bad days in row would be bad luck. More would be really bad luck and uncommon. If that was the only time I could go, I wouldn't hesitate.

I thought about which direction would be best and really couldn't come up with one. Are you planning on doing Kootenay Pass (highest in BC I believe) or going further north and riding between Nelson and Balfour or New Denver and Balfour? If you decide to take in the Kaslo New Denver Loop (and you should!!) going counter clockwise for this section is considered to be easier. It's a gradual climb going west from Kaslo to the rest stop at Fish Lake and is about 20 miles. It's then a steep 10 mile decent to New Denver. I have ridden it both ways and going east from New Denver is a tough climb. However, continuing south and just after Silverton, is a 4-5 mile climb but it's a good way to start the day. But overall counter clockwise for this little loop is the way to go. In any event, if you don't like big mountain passes ie Kootenay Pass, this will save you a lot of climbing but of course will add a few miles but if you have 2 weeks, it shouldn't be problem. Folks riding across Canada not interested in ticking every mountain pass off of their list usually go through Nelson, Balfour and Creston to avoid Kootenay Pass.

September would definitely be pushing it, but like aroundoz said, since you are credit touring, you'll be fine. I doubt you'll see any snow on the roads, but I would avoid Kootenay pass. It seemed like we were driving up that thing for like an hour at 60mph, its huge. I cant imagine riding a bike up it. Would be cool to say you'd done it though.

OK should I keep it in August or change to September? I think I would rather be sure I had warm weather than avoid tourist season.

If it is only going to be cold at night then that is not an issue. If it is going to be cold during the day then that is a problem. The low 50s is about tolerable for me as long as I am dry. I can go colder but not every single day and certainly not on vacation.

Average temperatures in early september in northern Idaho will be in the 60s, maybe even some days in the low 70s. But when you get into Canada it might dip into the 50s. You'll be fine if you can handle riding in 50 degree weather. I very much doubt that you'll see anything in the 40s in September. Theres always the freak storm that might come by, but honestly I think you'll be fine in September. There will be a ton less traffic.

A couple of issues I hope you local guys can help me solve.

I will be riding the loop counter clockwise. I'd like to at least try the pass to New Denver and as pointed out it is easier in that direction. But mostly, if I have the time I would like to check out the Gelena Trail (http://www.selkirkloop.org/index.php/places/super-side-trips/north-kootenay-lake-a-silvery-slocan-super-side-trip). Check the pic of the cool cable car at the bottom of the page!


I would like to keep my rides to around 60 miles a day.

My first problem is that I don't know what to do for the third night lodging.

Here is my itinerary do far.

Day 1 Spokane - Oldtown around 50-55 miles
Day 2 Oldtown - Bonners Ferry 61 miles.
Day 3 Bonners Ferry - Cretson - A measly 34 miles but the next town with any lodging is another 50 miles. This is a bit outside my 60 mile limit.

How bad is that ride between Bonners Ferry and Crawford Bay? If it is mostly flat I could probably stretch to 80+ .

Second issue.

What are my bailout options along the loop? Is there any public transit that would carry bikes. Not that I have ever needed it (I have used public transit but never in an emergency) it is nice to know it is there if you really need it.

There are a couple places in Boswell which is about 30 miles south of Creston:

http://bayshoreresort.kootenays.com/

http://www.bchotels.info/?n=heidelberg+inn&id=2307&t=hotelinfo

It's been several years but I remember there being one climb between Creston and Crawford Bay that got my attention and other than that, it's a lot of rollers and a fun ride.

The Galena Trail is worth checking out for sure as is the historic town of Sandon. There is a company that does MTB tours out of New Denver and if you stay in New Denver, renting MTBs for an afternoon might be an option. Walking it's also good and the trail brings you back to New Denver. If you want me to find the name of the business that does the MTB tours, let me know.

I can't think of any public transportation except for a shuttle that goes up Hwy 6 to Slocan but I doubt they would have room for a bike. A lot of people in this area get around by hitchhiking so that is an option.

Thanks aroundz. Funny the lady form the selkirk loop site said there is nothing till Crawford Bay. Boswell would be about right. I'm glad I have you "aroundz". :)

Yeah I guess it is the same as my tour of the PCH. I knew I was going to have to rely on the kindness of strangers. But everything went smoothly so help was not needed.

Would we have to rent MTBs for the Gelana? What is the trail surface like? We have the Montour Trail and Great Allegheny Passage here and while I would rather use my hybrid, I'll ride it on my road bike with 28mm tires. It's a nice hard packed limestone. But I would not try to do the C&O Trail out of Cumberland which is mainly dirt (actually mud) though some people do it.

If you decide to stay in Creston for a day, you won't be dissapointed. Some of the most beautiful scenery Ive ever seen there.

I will probably be doing the loop in late August. I also plan on making the side trip up to New Denver. When I was in Nelson last week had a few people reccomend that I drive up there, but didnt have the time.

Would we have to rent MTBs for the Gelana? What is the trail surface like? We have the Montour Trail and Great Allegheny Passage here and while I would rather use my hybrid, I'll ride it on my road bike with 28mm tires. It's a nice hard packed limestone. But I would not try to do the C&O Trail out of Cumberland which is mainly dirt (actually mud) though some people do it.

I think you would be completely fine using your hybrids on the Galena Trail as long as you won't mind walking a few sections. I didn't suggest using your bikes since I didn't want you guys cursing me after riding it especially if you never do trails but it sounds like you do. If yo go into it expecting to walk a few sections, I think you would still enjoy it with skinny tires. I remember there being mud in places but for the most part, it is smooth hard pack. The beginning of the trail from the east is a fairly gradual decent with some tight turns. It's one of the big attraction in the area so they do a good job of keeping it maintained. My wife and I were on our full suspension MTBs which was fun but overkill. If you do it with your gear, plan on a few shuttles across the river using the cable car but that will be good for a few laughs and a picture or two. My yellow lab wasn't particularly happy about making the trip but he eventually forgave me.

Just to clarify. I will be riding my road bike with 28mm tires. My one buddy the same. The other a hybrid with front shocks (still can't believe he road tours on that thing :) ).


Is it mostly like a lime stone surface or dirt? Maybe when I get there, I can decide then to rent or not.

We probably won't do it with the gear. I should be over nighting in New Denver. I am a little concerned about the climb out of Kelso. I might stay in Kelso one night and New Denver the next to make that day a nice short day. If I still have time and energy then ride the Galena or maybe make the next day a break day and do nothing but ride the Galena.


I sure hope airfares don't go to crazy and spoil all of this. I plan to put an itinerary together ASAP and book my tickets to try and lock in a lower price.

A couple of more questions.

Will I find plenty of water along the way? One thing I really liked about Italy, Switzerland and Austria is that you were almost tripping over water fountains.


Do most of these small towns have laundromats?

The initial climb out of Kaslo is very steep for about a 1/4 mile and after that it is a fairly steady and beautiful climb to Fish Lake with very light traffic. I think you will enjoy it. Both Kaslo and New Denver are great little towns to explore. You might consider riding from Boswell to Ainsworth Hotsprings and stay the night there. I wouldn't want to spend an entire day at Ainsworth but after a long day of riding, nothing would be better than a good soak especially if you had bad weather that day. It's about 15 miles shy of Kaslo might break things up better for the next days ride to New Denver.

The Galena Trail is mostly dirt and it is rooty and rocky in places. In short, barely doable with your tires, a lot more fun with an MTB.

Plenty of Laundry mats and no problem finding water (except for Balfour unless you buy it at a store or fill up your bottles at the pub at the ferry landing).

Here is my preliminary itinerary:

Day 1. Spokane to Oldtown 55 miles
Day 2. Oldtown to Bonners Ferry 62 miles
Day 3. Bonners Ferry to Creston 37 miles with side trip option to increase to 64 miles
Day 4. Creston to Crawford Bay 45 miles
Day 5. Crawford Bay to Kalso 37 miles (possible stop at hot springs)
Day 6. Kalso to New Denver 30 miles
Day 7. Lay over in New Denver. Ride the Galaena trail, explore etc.
Day 8. New Denver to Nelson 63 miles
Day 9. Nelson to Metaline Falls 53 miles.
Day 10. Metaline Falls to Oldtown 60 miles
Day 11. Oldtown to Spokane 55 miles (early start, pack up bikes, ship home)

Seems kind of short. If I wanted to increase this by a day or two, where else should I explore?

I would go from Nelson to Trail for the night and back track around to Metaline Falls the next night. If you are really ambitious go up to Rossland, a tough 800 meter climb.

I've been all thru there in my car various years. The road was still being built somewhere along that route when I was there about 22 years ago, a scary narrow cliff lane near dusk. I went golfing at Kokanee Springs.

What is the better way to go to Trail? 3A-22 or 6 - 3 - 3B. If I took 3A - 22 in then I would not be backtracking much.

Also looks like there is a road from Trail to Metaline Falls. Looks like it is marked Zent?? It starts in Boundry and twists and turns toward Metaline Falls.

You would miss Nelson to avoid back tracking. I am unfamiliar with the Castelgar to Trail road 22.
Might be better without Nelson.

I see hwy 22 is very level at least.

It is a 1000 meter climb going from Castlegar around to Rossland on 3b. About 35 miles with few services.

Oh I know I will backtrack a bit going into and back out of Nelson. That was already in the plan, even my original one.


What do you mean "Might be better without Nelson"?

Oh I have no problem with Nelson. I was just thinking it would be a 3 for 1 city trade.

If you want to see a nice resort boating lake area, there Cristina Lake. About another 15 miles west on hwy 3.