Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - G or J?

Since I've postponed my cross country ride to 2012, and I don't expect to be out of commission for the entire year, I need something to do. I need something to plan. So I've worked out these choices.

G or J? Pennsylvania has several cross state bike routes. The two flattest are G and J, both running North to South and less than 250 miles. Both are doable for me in a week's riding time. Friends, your thoughts are welcome.

G is in central PA, running from Tioga in the north to Bedford in the south. Of 225 miles, 75 are on rail trails (60 on the Pine Creek Rail Trail through the gorge, 16 on the Lower near Altoona). Largest city it passes through is Lock Haven, population 14K when college is in session. Only substantial climb is around Mount Nittney, outside State College.

Plan would be to rent a car and head north, ride south on the G, and finish in Cumberland, MD, 20 miles south of the PA border, where I'd rent a car home. Or if I'm ambitious, ride home. It's three days ride, hilly, but nice.

G is a very rural route. The one drawback is that I've been over lots of it. And if I want to see PA's Grand Canyon, I want to spend days there, not hours passing through.

J is in central PA, but closer east than G. It starts in, ahem, Sayre, PA, heads west and south along the Sussquahanna, passes through several cities, including Williamsport and Harrisburg, and finishes at New Freedom. 30 of the 220 miles are on a bike path (York Heritage Trail, plus bike paths in cities).

Plan is to start in Sayre - that sounds bad no matter how I type it - ride south, and either arrange a pickup or ride the 50 miles home.

One benefit of the J route is that there are so many cities along the route I might not need camping gear. The drawback is that along the river the bike route uses the shoulders of four lane highways. The Amish ride along Rt 15 all the time, so it can't be as bad as some people say it is.

Thoughts, anyone?

I vote for the "G" option with a mandatory Cumberland stop. But I'm a bit biased.

The shoulder of 15 is pretty wide, almost as wide as a third auto lane. The problem with it, it's full of road debris and the 55mph speed limit is widely ignored. If you ride as far right as practical and don't mind the traffic, the ride itself will be mostly flat and pass some interesting establishments.

I vote J, do something you haven't done before.

I vote for the "G" option with a mandatory Cumberland stop. But I'm a bit biased.

One vote here, and one on Facebook, for the G route.

BTW, I'd scheduled a vacation for the first week of May. If the Synvic treatment I'm getting at the end of the month works for even a couple of months, I'll undertake the trip on either J or G. All bets are off if it fails.

The shoulder of 15 is pretty wide, almost as wide as a third auto lane. The problem with it, it's full of road debris and the 55mph speed limit is widely ignored. If you ride as far right as practical and don't mind the traffic, the ride itself will be mostly flat and pass some interesting establishments.

I might be able to get lodging near Harrisburg too? :-)

Based on the route, it's going to be next to impossible to camp along much of it.

Plan is to start in Sayre - that sounds bad no matter how I type it ....

I was already considering the J route, but I confess my fondness for wordplay and puns gives this route an extra push for me on discovering that the town Mr. Kulp was named for is on the way.

Do you have a link to the map for route G? I could probably give you an alternate around the climb over Mt Nittany. If the route goes over where I think it goes over then the end of the mountain is only 10 miles south closer to State College. There are psycho riders around here that ride from State College to the end of the Pine Creek Trail and back in a days time(approx 200 miles). They pick the longest day of the year to do it, around June 21. There are lots of rollers in central PA but the scenary is awesome. If you have time stay and check out State College for a day. There is the Creamery on the PSU campus that has the best ice cream you will ever taste(if you like ice cream). Also, if you plan it right, there is the Central Pennsylvania Festival of the Arts that occurs every summer in early July. It's a 4 day arts festival with all kinds of stuff going on. Although the town gets a little crazy during that weekend. Then in the late summer, Ausgust(ish) there is a huge Grange Fair in Centre Hall which may be where Route G descends to after climbing Mount Nittany. If my schedule works out and I am in town I could ride with you through these parts if you would like.

Maps are here:

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/bike/web/tour_routes.htm

Maps are here:

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/bike/web/tour_routes.htm

http://www.pacommutes.com/biking/statewide-bike-routes/

G: "The route connects Tioga County, Pa. and the Corning, N.Y. area in the north with Bedford County and the Cumberland, Md. area on the south. The 235-mile long course follows numerous northeast-southwest trending stream valleys and is surprisingly flat. It offers a convenient connection to New York State Bike Route 17 on the north and the C&O Canal Towpath and the Allegheny Passage on the south. A highlight is the Grand Canyon of Pennsylvania in Tioga County."

J: "Coursing through the Susquehanna River Valley for approximately half of its 220 mile length, this relatively flat route is the only one to pass through the state capital at Harrisburg. Other notable towns along the route are Sayre, Towanda, Williamsport, Milton, Sunbury, Selinsgrove, and York. From York, the route uses the York Heritage Trail, a rail-trail that runs to the Maryland border and continues to the Baltimore suburbs as the North Central Trail."

Do you have a link to the map for route G? I could probably give you an alternate around the climb over Mt Nittany. If the route goes over where I think it goes over then the end of the mountain is only 10 miles south closer to State College. There are psycho riders around here that ride from State College to the end of the Pine Creek Trail and back in a days time(approx 200 miles). They pick the longest day of the year to do it, around June 21. There are lots of rollers in central PA but the scenary is awesome. If you have time stay and check out State College for a day. There is the Creamery on the PSU campus that has the best ice cream you will ever taste(if you like ice cream). Also, if you plan it right, there is the Central Pennsylvania Festival of the Arts that occurs every summer in early July. It's a 4 day arts festival with all kinds of stuff going on. Although the town gets a little crazy during that weekend. Then in the late summer, Ausgust(ish) there is a huge Grange Fair in Centre Hall which may be where Route G descends to after climbing Mount Nittany. If my schedule works out and I am in town I could ride with you through these parts if you would like.

Here's a cue sheet from 2001. They've since rerouted the G route in Lycoming and Tioga, but I think this part is still accurate:

Enter Huntingdon County
L onto SR 22 in Alfarata
BR onto SR 453 in Water Street
BR onto SR 45
R at tee intersection (continue on SR 45) at Spruce Creek
S through Spruce Creek
S through Colerain Forge
S through Franklinville
BR on SR 45 through Seven Stars
S through Graysville


Enter Centre County
S through Rockspring
S through Pine Grove Mills on SR 45/26
BR onto SR 45
S through Shingletown
S at junction with Business 322 onto SR 3010 (Boalsburg Rd.)
R onto SR 2004 in Oak Hall
L onto SR 2006 (Rock Hill Road) at Linden Hall
R onto 2006 above Linden Hall
S onto Church Street in Centre Hall
S onto SR 192 in Centre Hall
L onto SR 880 at Rebersburg (detour route, effective April-Aug, 2000)
R onto SR 2002 at Tylersville (detour route, effective April-Aug, 2000)
R onto SR 64 at Nittany


Enter Clinton County
S on SR 64 through Lamar
S on SR 64 through Cedar Springs
R on SR 150 in Mill Hall
S on SR 150 into Lock Haven. Follow one way couplet in Lock Haven. (northbound use ______Street to SR 150, southbound, use________street)
S through Dunnstown on SR 150
S through Chatham Run
S through Avis on Central Avenue (SR 150)
S onto SR 1016
L onto SR 44

Enter Huntingdon County
L onto SR 22 in Alfarata
BR onto SR 453 in Water Street
BR onto SR 45
R at tee intersection (continue on SR 45) at Spruce Creek
S through Spruce Creek
S through Colerain Forge
S through Franklinville
BR on SR 45 through Seven Stars
S through Graysville


Enter Centre County
S through Rockspring
S through Pine Grove Mills on SR 45/26
BR onto SR 45
S through Shingletown
S at junction with Business 322 onto SR 3010 (Boalsburg Rd.)
R onto SR 2004 in Oak Hall
L onto SR 2006 (Rock Hill Road) at Linden Hall
R onto 2006 above Linden Hall
S onto Church Street in Centre Hall
S onto SR 192 in Centre Hall
L onto SR 880 at Rebersburg (detour route, effective April-Aug, 2000)

I know these roads pretty well. This cue sheet looks like it goes South to North.

This is a pretty stout climb: BR onto SR 453 in Water Street but you will be going the other way.

I have driven 880, lots of rollers. The other thing to keep in mind is that you will most likely be facing a head wind if you roll through on a windy day. The wind blows from South(east) up that valley. I have had fun riding out to Rebersburg on that same route only to struggle on the way back agains the headwind. Then again it all depends on the weather.

You could always stay on 64 out of Lamar, it eventually turns into 26 in Pleasant Gap and head straight for State College, riding around the whole Mt Nittany thing,hang a left in Lamont over to 45 and pick up the route again. That route from Lamar to Rebersburg is very twisty road with rollers and then the big climb at the end. Low traffic and it gets bicycle traffic in the warmer months.

I don't know if you actually rode any of these routes but they seem to be on busier roads with high speed traffic. They seem to have wider shoulders though. I think I hit J on my ride from here to Skippack last summer. I remember seeing the signs. The road that runs along the Susquehanna btwn Lweisburg and Northumberland was one of these routes, there was a lot of high speed truck traffic but the shoulder was wide but also had those rumble strips on them. It was a little hairy at times but survivalable. The trucks moved over and give you a lot of room. Just wear very bright colors. There are some parts of PA where they are not used to bicycle traffic, like what I encountered in the Pottsville area. I am thinking that these are bike routes so they general population should be used bike traffic. Don't mean to scrare you but just want to give you a heads up so are caught off guard. I know I hate being caught off guard.

I might be able to get lodging near Harrisburg too? :-)

Sure, so long as you don't mind me tagging along for part of the next leg.

Enter Huntingdon County
L onto SR 22 in Alfarata
BR onto SR 453 in Water Street
BR onto SR 45
R at tee intersection (continue on SR 45) at Spruce Creek
S through Spruce Creek
S through Colerain Forge
S through Franklinville
BR on SR 45 through Seven Stars
S through Graysville


Enter Centre County
S through Rockspring
S through Pine Grove Mills on SR 45/26
BR onto SR 45
S through Shingletown
S at junction with Business 322 onto SR 3010 (Boalsburg Rd.)
R onto SR 2004 in Oak Hall
L onto SR 2006 (Rock Hill Road) at Linden Hall
R onto 2006 above Linden Hall
S onto Church Street in Centre Hall
S onto SR 192 in Centre Hall
L onto SR 880 at Rebersburg (detour route, effective April-Aug, 2000)

I know these roads pretty well. This cue sheet looks like it goes South to North.

This is a pretty stout climb: BR onto SR 453 in Water Street but you will be going the other way.

I have driven 880, lots of rollers. The other thing to keep in mind is that you will most likely be facing a head wind if you roll through on a windy day. The wind blows from South(east) up that valley. I have had fun riding out to Rebersburg on that same route only to struggle on the way back agains the headwind. Then again it all depends on the weather.

You could always stay on 64 out of Lamar, it eventually turns into 26 in Pleasant Gap and head straight for State College, riding around the whole Mt Nittany thing,hang a left in Lamont over to 45 and pick up the route again. That route from Lamar to Rebersburg is very twisty road with rollers and then the big climb at the end. Low traffic and it gets bicycle traffic in the warmer months.

I don't know if you actually rode any of these routes but they seem to be on busier roads with high speed traffic. They seem to have wider shoulders though. I think I hit J on my ride from here to Skippack last summer. I remember seeing the signs. The road that runs along the Susquehanna btwn Lweisburg and Northumberland was one of these routes, there was a lot of high speed truck traffic but the shoulder was wide but also had those rumble strips on them. It was a little hairy at times but survivalable. The trucks moved over and give you a lot of room. Just wear very bright colors. There are some parts of PA where they are not used to bicycle traffic, like what I encountered in the Pottsville area. I am thinking that these are bike routes so they general population should be used bike traffic. Don't mean to scrare you but just want to give you a heads up so are caught off guard. I know I hate being caught off guard.







The only portions of the G route I've ridden have been the Lower Trail and a mile on the connecting roads, and Rt. 44/Pine Creek Rail Trail.

Then again, I've ridden roads like this in Maryland:

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183137_1730014582657_1607271639_1620891_761120_n.jpg

The one drawback is that I've been over lots of it.

In your writings you often express not going back to the place (or the person) you once were....

Niel,

I'd go with J, sound like it would be a lot more of an adventure for you--new ground to cover!

And thanks SO MUCH for that link!!!! I live just outside of Bentleyville, PA in Washington county. I now have a new goal of riding "A" sometime! Maybe this fall when the leaves change colors? Or maybe next spring or summer. But it looks like a very fun ride!

My big question: How do you plan on getting to the start of the ride? Then how do you plan on getting back home at the end?

In your writings you often express not going back to the place (or the person) you once were....

That's true.

Then again, the reason I'd not want to redo parts of the G route is that I'd want to spend more time on them. I could easily spend a week in Pine Creek Gorge, for instance.

Niel,

I'd go with J, sound like it would be a lot more of an adventure for you--new ground to cover!

And thanks SO MUCH for that link!!!! I live just outside of Bentleyville, PA in Washington county. I now have a new goal of riding "A" sometime! Maybe this fall when the leaves change colors? Or maybe next spring or summer. But it looks like a very fun ride!

My big question: How do you plan on getting to the start of the ride? Then how do you plan on getting back home at the end?

Depending on where I am, I can either rent a car or call someone for a lift. Also, the end of the J route is two days ride from my house, or Sayre's.

PA Bike Routes use trails, low traffic roads, and high traffic roads with wide shoulders. You will have fun.

Sure, so long as you don't mind me tagging along for part of the next leg.

Anyone is welcome.

I'm planning on the first week in May. I'm not sure of my starting date yet. I just know I need to be back to work by the 9th.

BTW, all this is depending on my knees responding to treatment with Synvic. If it doesn't work, then all bets are off.

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/345371

Bikely map of the upper leg of the G route. This was drafted using the old 2001 cue sheet I quoted above. It's from before the Pine Creek Rail Trail was finished. The trail cuts about a thousand feet of climbing from 63 miles.

CrazyGuyOnABike journal on the G route:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/nickbike2007

Note the guy camped on the Lower Trail, which is against the rules. I'll not do that.

Crazyguy journals on the J route:

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Appalachia2009

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/3508

I make a brief appearance in the second journal.

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/PA-Bike-Route-J

My Bikely map of the J route, from Sayre to York, PA, where it picks up a flat rail trail for the final 20 miles to the Mason Dixon Line.

Looking at the J route, it goes onto route 322 from Duncannon to Harrisburg which is just downright crazy!!! I saw two guys on a tandem riding the shoulder once and I thought they were crazy but now I know why they were on there. Crazy, just crazy!!

The only portions of the G route I've ridden have been the Lower Trail and a mile on the connecting roads, and Rt. 44/Pine Creek Rail Trail.

Then again, I've ridden roads like this in Maryland:

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/183137_1730014582657_1607271639_1620891_761120_n.jpg

I know where that is! That is only bad during holiday weekends in the summer...Memorial, Independence, Labor Days (as well as the Friday before Labor Day weekend). Even then, it will be stop n go for several hours....

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/PA-Bike-Route-G

This is the full PA Bike Route "G", as posted on the PENDOT website. The only change I made was using the entire length of the Pine Creek Rail Trail instead of the 40 mile segment PENDOT signed. The climbing figure is higher than it should be, since Bikely doesn't automatically follow rail trails; there's no way there's any climbing on the 63 mile Pine Creek or 16 mile Lower Trails.

That said, the big spike north of State College and south of Lock Haven scares me a little.

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/PA-Bike-Route-J

My Bikely map of the J route, from Sayre to York, PA, where it picks up a flat rail trail for the final 20 miles to the Mason Dixon Line.

Is that the Heritage Rail Trail that continues on into Maryland?

Is that the Heritage Rail Trail that continues on into Maryland?

Yes. It continues another 20 miles, although trail conditions deteriorate rapidly in Maryland.

Yes. It continues another 20 miles, although trail conditions deteriorate rapidly in Maryland.

I seem to notice a theme. I still want to ride even just a short portion of that trail when I get the chance.

I seem to notice a theme. I still want to ride even just a short portion of that trail when I get the chance.

Look up the thread "I'm awesome." I rode it in May 2010 with Bautieri and xVhanz.

Seriously, if you want to join me on the trip from, err, Waverly, NY, to the Mason-Dixon line, let's work out a time. PM me here or on Facebook.

Depending on my recovery, there might not need to be a need to choose. I could ride G one week, and J another. Is crossing PA by bike twice in one summer excessive, or awesome?

It's excessively awesome.

Depending on my recovery, there might not need to be a need to choose. I could ride G one week, and J another. Is crossing PA by bike twice in one summer excessive, or awesome?

Um, Awesome.

My big question: How do you plan on getting to the start of the ride? Then how do you plan on getting back home at the end?

I suggested a rental car, but it's not as easy as I thought. The only place I can drop off a one-way rental is Elmira-Corning Regional Airport, which is 20 miles from the start of the G route and 30 from the start of the J. That's an extra night on the road and a day for the trip. Unless I can find someone to give me a lift for a 200 some mile drive.

Is Greyhound an option? Or Amtrack?

Amtrak doesn't have service to the area. Greyhound could get me to Waverly/Sayre in 8 hours with two transfers, or Elmira in six hours with one. I'd need to ship my bike and gear, however. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Amtrak doesn't have service to the area. Greyhound could get me to Waverly/Sayre in 8 hours with two transfers, or Elmira in six hours with one. I'd need to ship my bike and gear, however. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I think a rental car is the way to go. I could drop off the car at the airport, stay in Elmira, and ride to Waverly/Sayre the next day.