Fifty Plus (50+) - Kids of the Future

Yesterday I was riding back from the Post office and I saw a couple of little black kids up ahead. They had to be about 4 years old and were out front of their house, playing. When they spotted me, they reared up, stuck their tongues out and shouted in unison,
"Hey ni**(gg)er! Nyahh!" Then one of them threw a rock at me.

My first thought was "That's sad... somebody's ruining them."

I dinged my little 'ringy bell at them and pedaled on. The episode struck to many levels.
These little nippers are the future; oh, boy. :(

Damn, that's depressing dahut. I'm sorry you had to go through that. And like you say, that behavior has been taught. :mad:

Sorry to hear of this incident. For all the flag waving that goes on in popular and political culture, the United States has much to be ashamed of. Bigotry and racism head the list. What gets into people that they think that they are better than others? It so dispirits me when I hear of this sort of thing.

Similar situation, the two little boys ran out into the street in front of me, turned their backs to me and pushed their bums in my direction. I stopped and asked them where they lived, then went and had a frank conversation with their mother about them "playing" in the road. She seemed shocked at first, then thanked me, and said she would talk to the boys.

If they were a year or two older, they would have just told me to F off.

Sorry you had to have that slur thrown at you. It amazes me how many kids use this slur to other African-Americans and to each other. Didn't all the hard work and blood shed by the civil rights pioneers make any difference to people. I cannot imagine how much having such a term thrown at you must feel. And in Black History Month and so close to Dr. King's memorial day. You showed a lot of class sir.

I learned a long time ago and it was reinforced in the Marine Corps that we are all in this together. We all bleed red and all have feelings.

Bill

Somewhere Dr King is spinning in his grave.:(

I've worked with kids for 37 years as a teacher and principal. While most of my experiences were positive, too many times unfortunate incidents have occurred. Children of this age of course have learned and been influenced by who and what they have been exposed to. Why it would be entertaining to them to spout these words and to throw a stone probably has a number of reasons.
Following an incident like this, there are usually at least two pieces to examine. First, what happens to the victim? Beyond any physical harm due to the stone, what has the experience left you with? What happens when you come upon another group of four year olds? In some cases, the experience leaves deep marks.
The next focus needs to be the children. What have they learned from this? Was their taunting reinforced and likely to occur again? What understanding do they have for the trouble or pain they caused?
So sorry that you or anyone has to experience a situation like this. Pretty good indication of the work we as a society still need to do.

Counterpoint: Monday night I was asked to sit on a couple of Eagle Boards of Review. One scout was 17 and plans to be a pediatrician. His Eagle Project was for Project Stable. An organization that helps 4H Clubs and does Equine Therapy for children with disabilities.

The other scout plans to be an engineer. He is 16 years old and lives 8 months of the year in Florida and 4 months in Massachusetts. He is home-schooled and studies robotics. He is a PADI certified SCUBA diver and his Eagle Project was to make and install reef balls in a local state park. He has been a teacher assistant for Project Think Tank in Massachussetts where he taught 10 and 11 year olds about reef balls. It was awesome to sit and listen to him talk about the knowledge he gleaned and weather problems he had to overcome to install these balls. He's well-versed in salinity and it's impact on coral polyp formation, currents, and indigenous and non-native fish species.

Social Darwinism, or our descent to idiocracy, is partly due to smarter people having less children and the idiots gradually taking over. I have been a Special Ed. teacher for 26 years, but my work with Boy Scouts for the past 16 years has been the most rewarding, and constant affirmation in the vitality and strength of our youth.

...Social Darwinism, or our descent to idiocracy, is partly due to smarter people having less children and the idiots gradually taking over...
Um, no. While there is indeed a negative correlation between income and fertility and also between education and fertility, there is no credible way to discern any such trend related to intelligence. It is also not possible to ascribe any observed lack of "smartness" to genetics as opposed to environmental influences. Social Darwinism is not Darwinism at all. It is mostly an excuse to divide people into "us and them" or "haves and have nots".

I object to what you said not because you use such a statement in a racist way (you didn't and I'm sure you wouldn't), but because the racists of our nation's past have used just this argument and I would hate to see such notions gain traction again, particularly at a time when we have a very effective "war on science" going on.

On a sunnier note, thanks for doing your part to make the social environment of your community healthier. I helped a young man with his eagle scout project last fall and had a blast. In fact, his project involved helping yet another community organization make our community a better place.

Um, no. While there is indeed a negative correlation between income and fertility and also between education and fertility, there is no credible way to discern any such trend related to intelligence. It is also not possible to ascribe any observed lack of "smartness" to genetics as opposed to environmental influences. Social Darwinism is not Darwinism at all. It is mostly an excuse to divide people into "us and them" or "haves and have nots".

I object to what you said not because you use such a statement in a racist way (you didn't and I'm sure you wouldn't), but because the racists of our nation's past have used just this argument and I would hate to see such notions gain traction again, particularly at a time when we have a very effective "war on science" going on.

On a sunnier note, thanks for doing your part to make the social environment of your community healthier. I helped a young man with his eagle scout project last fall and had a blast. In fact, his project involved helping yet another community organization make our community a better place.

You never saw the movie Idiocracy I take it. It was a joke. Sorry I didn't make that clearer with some sort of emoticon. And I was using intelligence and education level synonymously, even though I realize they are not the same (kind of like every fixie is a single-speed, but not every single-speed is a fixie). Yeah, that should fixie it!

Warning: Foul language and adult themes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSROlfR7WTo

My extended family is mixed, in their attitudes as well as skin color. Two of the older kids have wholly embraced the idea that, in order to "be black", they had to be hood-rats. I hear the slurred speech, the ever-changing slang, every profane word invented (not that I'm easy with words, but they could offend sailors!), the sub-woofer beats in every vehicle they operate, and... the worst; that DAMNED N-word!!!

I object to it, to hearing it, seeing it in print (FB and everywhere else), and since I'm head of household, I pretty much demand that the word not be used in my presence. Last week, the oldest girl (24) said, "It's just a word, means nuttin' ta me...."

OK.... 1.)if it's "nuttin' ", then it shouldn't be hard to drop out of your vocabulary; 2.) if I used it, in front of you or any other 'person of color', I'd BETTER be ready to fight. Two evenings later, this girl and her 18-y-o brother (the other hood-rat) were letting it fly like it was the 'letter E on Wheel of Fortune'. Now, I haven't heard it since, but they are gonna be really unhappy the next time I DO hear it.

When I see/hear kids, ages 4-10, calling each other "ni@@a", or walking around saggin', I can only despair at the future. They HAVE no parents, they were born to lowlifes who couldn't put a raincoat on it.

Don't care about the excuses for it; everyone over the age of about 15 has a damned choice. So what if the American History class contains some spin, some covered-up untruth? 2+2=4 all day long! Just because you may (or may NOT) have had some great-great-great ancestor who was a slave, does NOT mean I owe YOU anything!!!!!!!! Get your education and forget what you disagree with, remember what helps you live day to day. Get a friggin' JOB, support yourself, and have some pride in yourself!

You can't tell me there's a single street-corner hood-rat thug who's proud of himself...........

Counterpoint: Monday night I was asked to sit on a couple of Eagle Boards of Review. One scout was 17 and plans to be a pediatrician. His Eagle Project was for Project Stable. An organization that helps 4H Clubs and does Equine Therapy for children with disabilities.

The other scout plans to be an engineer. He is 16 years old and lives 8 months of the year in Florida and 4 months in Massachusetts. He is home-schooled and studies robotics. He is a PADI certified SCUBA diver and his Eagle Project was to make and install reef balls in a local state park. He has been a teacher assistant for Project Think Tank in Massachussetts where he taught 10 and 11 year olds about reef balls. It was awesome to sit and listen to him talk about the knowledge he gleaned and weather problems he had to overcome to install these balls. He's well-versed in salinity and it's impact on coral polyp formation, currents, and indigenous and non-native fish species.

Social Darwinism, or our descent to idiocracy, is partly due to smarter people having less children and the idiots gradually taking over. I have been a Special Ed. teacher for 26 years, but my work with Boy Scouts for the past 16 years has been the most rewarding, and constant affirmation in the vitality and strength of our youth.


We should be surprised because? Like the kids don't hear those same words in popular music today made by ones considered local heroes?

And contrary to what some may have us believe there have been some studies by legitimate scientists that support your contention.

Main articles: List of countries and territories by fertility rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate) and IQ and Global Inequality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality)
Although much of the research into intelligence and fertility has been restricted to individuals within a single nation (most of them living within the United States), Steven Shatz (2007) extended the research internationally; he finds that "There is a strong tendency for countries with lower national IQ scores to have higher fertility rates and for countries with higher national IQ scores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence) to have lower fertility rates."
However, as nations with higher IQ scores have access to more resources, and thus, prophylactics and fertility education, than nations with lower IQ scores, the birth rate would be expected to be lower. But Meisenberg (2009) found that both GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP) and intelligence independently reduces fertility. Liberal democracy had only a weak and inconsistent effect.

Interesting, the complexity that emerges when we "unpack" that word and see it in all its manifestations.
I still think it is wrong to edit Mark Twain's Life on the Mississippi. Read it aloud, including the n word and use it as an opportunity to discuss our racial history, perhaps even gaining some insight as we do.

We should be surprised because? Like the kids don't hear those same words in popular music today made by ones considered local heroes?

And contrary to what some may have us believe there have been some studies by legitimate scientists that support your contention.

Main articles: List of countries and territories by fertility rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territories_by_fertility_rate) and IQ and Global Inequality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality)
Although much of the research into intelligence and fertility has been restricted to individuals within a single nation (most of them living within the United States), Steven Shatz (2007) extended the research internationally; he finds that "There is a strong tendency for countries with lower national IQ scores to have higher fertility rates and for countries with higher national IQ scores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence) to have lower fertility rates."
However, as nations with higher IQ scores have access to more resources, and thus, prophylactics and fertility education, than nations with lower IQ scores, the birth rate would be expected to be lower. But Meisenberg (2009) found that both GDP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP) and intelligence independently reduces fertility. Liberal democracy had only a weak and inconsistent effect.
Well all satire is built around some truth. Now if there's some sociological phenomena at work, and there is data to back that up, can it be helped if some people take these facts and manipulate them to serve their agenda? Facts can be such *****. They'll work for almost anyone!

From the Talking Heads song, Crosseyed and Painless:

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don't stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape

It's like charades, 5 letter word, one syllable, sounds like

hurts? no
hits? No
Cuts? Yes? Sounds like cuts

It's like charades, 5 letter word, one syllable, sounds like

hurts? no
hits? No
Cuts? Yes? Sounds like cuts

Gary, shouldn't you be at work?

The really sorry part is that this is nothing new. Something similar happened to me more than 20 years ago, except the kids where older, and the where trying to steal bikes. I was riding through a better part of a lower income town, I saw ahead of me three young men, two on one side of the street, one on the other. One on each side where hold a piece of broom stick, about 18 inches long, the other was holding a softball size piece of concrete. Lucky for me, they were looking the wrong way when I saw them. I shifted up a gear, got into the drops, out of the seat and hammered. I figured if one of them steps off the curb, I want to hit him with as much force as I could. One of them turned and saw me, he started yelling to his buddies, but it was too late for the stick men. The little bastard with the chunk of concrete let it fly, it hit my back wheel. The rim still has the tiny dent and scratch where it was hit. This was pre-cell phone days, so I couldn't call the cops. Who taught them right from wrong? Nobody. I'm sure those guys have never made much of themselves, and have producing little copies that are still doing them same stuff, or worse. The town that this has happened in hasn't gotten any better since then.

There are good kids out there, too.

somewhere dr king is spinning in his grave.:(

@35000rpm

Gary, shouldn't you be at work?
I am, I'm having a paperwork day on my computer. Sometimes I need to look at a different screen for a minute. I hate sitting at my computer for hours writing an IEP. I'm used to moving around a lot. Now I get to go sit in a 2-3 hour meeting.

Are teachers who post jokes about social darwinism on internet forums a symptom or a cause of the supposed idiocracy?

I look at the kids we have over here and I am just glad that I not have to associate with them. Problem is most of them are OK- it's the 1 in the woodpile that ruins the rest.

Sorry to hear of this incident. For all the flag waving that goes on in popular and political culture, the United States has much to be ashamed of.
I'm sorry, but the United States has NOTHING to be ashamed of!!

Im in sincere agreement that not everyone is bad - these are 4 year old children. If they behave badly, they are taught to do so. It was their attitude as much as what they said: combative and belligerent.
As someone else said, give them a few more years and they would have told me to get f*cked. Ten years and they'll be "popping a cap in my @ss."

Another level that this reached to is the use of the word "ni**(gg)er." One thought I had was that it is being applied universally here. Have we actually made strides towards uniting the races in this country? See, Im white - they didn't call me 'cracker' or '*****' - they called me "ni**(gger)."
For all the negative connotation that word has held over the decades, it's odd that it has become an epithet among the very people it was intended to degrade. Maybe it is losing it's power?

More than anything, I see it as some little kids being messed up by adults. Hey, there is nothing new under the sun - trashy people have been ruining their kids for a long time. Somewhere there are some ghetto thumping, pant sagging adults planting this behavior in their minds. My next door neighbor, when he heard of the episode, shook his head and said, "That whats wrong right there - dumb@ss ignorance. How can any of us rise higher, when we're teaching our kids to act like thugs?" He is black.

I'm guessing those kids will grow up to be motorists. ;)


But blacks using that term only serves to keep themselves down. It's sad that they teach it to their own kids.

Are teachers who post jokes about social darwinism on internet forums a symptom or a cause of the supposed idiocracy?

Yes.
*****
You know I have spent my career working with some of the toughest students in a school district: I've taught Severely Emotionally Disturbed students in center schools. I've taught in Juvenile Justice settings, and I currently teach children with autism in a self-contained setting. There are days when I feel really good about the job I do, and feel that it makes a difference. You know, the Pollyannaish, "A man never stands so tall as when he bends down to help a child" sentiment. There are other days when I come home and see something on the news or read a story like this that makes me wonder how many of these children I've been able to impact a long term change on, and how many of them I just taught to blend in and more cleverly hide their underlying personality pathologies, until they got to a point where they can't keep it bottled up and they commit suicide, or attack someone or some animal. Lately I've been feeling the negative energy more. *sigh*

I'm sorry, but the United States has NOTHING to be ashamed of!!

Wow, someone actually posted that.....really?

"Say not thou, 'What is the cause that the former days were better than these?' for thou dost not inquire wisely concerning this."- Solomon.

Kids acting up- a bummer. Something new- nope. Going to heck in a handbasket- maybe so, maybe not. There's always been good people and there's always been some criminals out there.

I'm sorry, but the United States has NOTHING to be ashamed of!!


Wow, someone actually posted that.....really?

Yup, someone did; and I can't answer it like it deserves to be answered, cuz then THIS thread will get moved to P&R, too........




Im in sincere agreement that not everyone is bad - these are 4 year old children. If they behave badly, they are taught to do so. It was their attitude as much as what they said: combative and belligerent.
As someone else said, give them a few more years and they would have told me to get f*cked. Ten years and they'll be "popping a cap in my @ss."

Another level that this reached to is the use of the word "ni**(gg)er." One thought I had was that it is being applied universally here. Have we actually made strides towards uniting the races in this country? See, Im white - they didn't call me 'cracker' or '*****' - they called me "ni**(gger)."
For all the negative connotation that word has held over the decades, it's odd that it has become an epithet among the very people it was intended to degrade. Maybe it is losing it's power?

More than anything, I see it as some little kids being messed up by adults. Hey, there is nothing new under the sun - trashy people have been ruining their kids for a long time. Somewhere there are some ghetto thumping, pant sagging adults planting this behavior in their minds. My next door neighbor, when he heard of the episode, shook his head and said, "That whats wrong right there - dumb@ss ignorance. How can any of us rise higher, when we're teaching our kids to act like thugs?" He is black.

Trust me when I say it, I've got a bit of an inside track here -- the biggest users of the N-word will tell you:

"...we say it with an 'A', not the 'ER', makes it OUR word, not the white man's...."

I call BS every time I hear that, and sometimes refer people to www.abolishthenword.com. (EDIT: it appears this website has evaporated, sorry.)

If you think for ONE SECOND that the word is losing its power, try using it. It's SOOOO "okay" for ghetto black folks that it's become an entitlement, but you and I will risk our lives for a two-syllable sound. (BTW -- 'cracker' *or as pronounced, CRACKA* is the term of choice now, more than *****. I guess too many people like me came up with answers -- "I'm a *****? Then come blow my horn, B****!")

I feel for your neighbor; I'd stand shoulder to shoulder with him, but it would diminish his efforts, just by my association.

The kids in my neighborhood are really nice, respectful. One of the parents isn't. It cuts both ways.

The kids in my neighborhood are really nice, respectful. One of the parents isn't. It cuts both ways.

I can relate to that one. I live next door to a teenager who is one of the sweetest, happiest and pleasantest kids you could ever hope to meet. Her mother and her stepfather though, they're a couple of the biggest a-holes I know. Go figure.

The best neighbors I've had in 20 years have had a large dose of melatonin in their skin.
I AM NOT making racial slurs in this post. and Im pleased to see that it hasnt degraded to that. What I am doing is pointing out a culture of ignorance that exists.
For that is what it is pure ignorance held in the highest esteem.

In the end, that is the thing that bothers me most, I suppose.

I believe it is sad to condemn so many by the actions of two. And if you believe racism is confined to the USA turn off the TV and travel a bit. Unfortunate actions by 2 youngsters but who's to say they won't grow into fine individuals for who among us can't recall something we'd like to take back?

When I was four years old I did some pretty stupid things. At that age kids are trying different things out. I remember calling my Sunday school teacher a (well, a not to nice slang word for a part of female anatomy), not because I knew what it meant, but because I knew when people said it, others went, "Ooooo, you shouldn't say that." I would see this an a potential opportunity to change the way those particular four year olds think. It's tough to have real hate or disrespect for someone you know and who has been kind with you.

Unfortunate actions by 2 youngsters but who's to say they won't grow into fine individuals for who among us can't recall something we'd like to take back?

+1 on this. I'd also say that while there are certainly plenty of cases where kids pick up bad attitudes and habits from their parents, there are also cases where they pick them up from other kids and the parents may not even be aware that it's happening.

I still think it is wrong to edit Mark Twain's Life on the Mississippi. Read it aloud, including the n word and use it as an opportunity to discuss our racial history, perhaps even gaining some insight as we do.

That's what I think too. There are no bad words, there is only inappropriate context.

I tell the kids on my school bus they can say whatever they want in the presence of their friends but show me the respect of editing your language on my bus. (Most of the inappropriate words they use are really stupid if you consider them literally anyway.)

I'm sorry, but the United States has NOTHING to be ashamed of!!

Keep right on enjoying that fantasy. You can believe anything you want to, it doesn't have to be true.
Hell, I have a friend who believes Reagan is still president, I tell her the same thing.

I believe it is sad to condemn so many by the actions of two. And if you believe racism is confined to the USA turn off the TV and travel a bit. Unfortunate actions by 2 youngsters but who's to say they won't grow into fine individuals for who among us can't recall something we'd like to take back?
Excellent point. It IS NOT these two youngsters that I am condemning. It is a the examples they have in the form of adults. That sort of behavior is usually learned from those closest, like parents, siblings and so on.
They might turn into fine adults, you are right. Im giving those odds at 50:50 right now.

When I was four years old I did some pretty stupid things. At that age kids are trying different things out. I remember calling my Sunday school teacher a (well, a not to nice slang word for a part of female anatomy), not because I knew what it meant, but because I knew when people said it, others went, "Ooooo, you shouldn't say that." I would see this an a potential opportunity to change the way those particular four year olds think. It's tough to have real hate or disrespect for someone you know and who has been kind with you.
Here's what I know. Had I stood in front of my house as a child and "innocently" hollered "ni**(gg)er," or "c*nt," or "f*cker" (choose your expletive) at a stranger, I wouldn't have sat down for a week. Remember, this was in their own yard, 10 feet from their front door.
I know kids do stupid things; hell I've raised 5 of my own. But they were doing it were they felt safest and secure - at home. This wasn't in a Sunday School or elsewhere. What does that tell you about the home?

Here's what I know. Had I stood in front of my house as a child and "innocently" hollered "ni**(gg)er," or "c*nt," or "f*cker" (choose your expletive) at a stranger, I wouldn't have sat down for a week. Remember, this was in their own yard, 10 feet from their front door.
I know kids do stupid things; hell I've raised 5 of my own. But they were doing it were they felt safest and secure - at home. This wasn't in a Sunday School or elsewhere. What does that tell you about the home?

That maybe there was a babysitter there or the parents somewhere out of ear shot. I don't really know. It could have been a less than desirable situation for those kids. I do know that I've worked with adjudicated teens in some of the roughest neighborhoods in the Philadelphia area for over 15 years, and there are MANY kids worth the effort. Some, not so much, but the majority? Yeah, I think so. It's amazing how resilient kids can be.

That maybe there was a babysitter there or the parents somewhere out of ear shot. I don't really know. It could have been a less than desirable situation for those kids. I do know that I've worked with adjudicated teens in some of the roughest neighborhoods in the Philadelphia area for over 15 years, and there are MANY kids worth the effort. Some, not so much, but the majority? Yeah, I think so. It's amazing how resilient kids can be.

And, of course, this leads to the greater sorrow - the fact that we do have to adjudicate so many. There have always been broken homes and distraught situations. Is it because we simply have more people that we have so many, today?

I don't think so. I, too, have worked with kids and I'm convinced that their is a genuine apathy and laggardness today that didn't exist in our recently past times. I refer to it as the "F*ck the World" mentality.
And when I say recent past, I'm talking about only a few generations here.
You are right we are asked by our culture to be participants and make the attempt to save people from themselves. But are there enough of us who are willing to do so, to go around?

These kids were taught to hate, envy and to be bitter. It's to bad. We just need to thank God that we didn't have those kind of parents. I say, "there but for the grace of God go I". Those kids need mentoring before they wind up in real trouble and in jail or worse.

Social Darwinism, or our descent to idiocracy, is partly due to smarter people having less children and the idiots gradually taking over.

Social Darwinism, or our descent to idiocracy, is partly due to smarter people having fewer children and the idiots gradually taking over.

Just sayin'.



I'm sorry, but the United States has NOTHING to be ashamed of!!

Nothing? Nothing? Really? Not one thing? Even one small tiny thing?

Here's what I know. Had I stood in front of my house as a child and "innocently" hollered "ni**(gg)er," or "c*nt," or "f*cker" (choose your expletive) at a stranger, I wouldn't have sat down for a week. Remember, this was in their own yard, 10 feet from their front door.
I know kids do stupid things; hell I've raised 5 of my own. But they were doing it were they felt safest and secure - at home. This wasn't in a Sunday School or elsewhere. What does that tell you about the home?

I wouldn't have been beaten for such behavior. I would have been forced to find the person I insulted, apologize and then offer to work for free for them for some lengthy period of time. I think I would rather take a beating.