Classic & Vintage - My first great C&V find turned to dissapointment

Started two days ago, I spot an ad on Craigslist for 2 Schwinns for $50 about an hour away. One is listed as a World Voyageur in good condition for it's age, the other bike just listed as a Schwinn. No other information in the ad. I quickly send the seller an email to ask about the size of the Voyageur and about any pics. He sends me the size and it fits me, but he won't have pics until the next day. I figure for $50 I can risk it and tell him I'll take both and pick them up Saturday morning. We decide to meet closer to the middle so it's only 40 minutes for me.

Next day he sends me a crappy photo of the Voyageur from a camera phone. I'm happy though, I see an original 1973 yellow voyageur that looks unmolested. Looks like it needs the basics like tires, lube and cables. So at this point I'm excited about the bike. Can't wait to get her fixed up and ready to ride for spring.

So today I drive out there to meet the guy and he's a no show. I assume someone offered him more money, but he didn't have the guts to send me a message. Instead wasting my morning was a better option for him. I have since left him a voice mail, text message and email and he hasn't responded. The craigslist ad also was deleted today. Sorry about the rant, I'm just upset that people are so crappy like this. I was really hoping to get a nice bike at a great price that I could fix up and ride and still sell it down the road and not lose money.

I'll keep the search going, but next time I'll make sure I have the sellers address to meet them.

That sucks big time.

Yeah it sucks but that's how it goes sometimes, in my experience you have to be willing to pretty much jump in the car immediately if you want to actually get the good deals or you risk this type of situation.

It's just the C&V Gods saying it was never meant to be. Cheer up as there is more then one fish in the sea and you'll get your day and he'll get his. Karma.

If you didn't get it, it wasn't a "find."

More reason to hang back and let your first find fall into your lap. They have a tendency to do that; you just have to make sure you blank your mind about bikes - or else whatever it is won't show up.

-Kurt

This might be the same one....

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/491454-Your-Catch-of-the-Day-Saved-from-the-Dump!?p=12241521&highlight=#post12241521

This might be the same one....

If so, it looks much nicer now:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/714665-1973-Schwinn-World-Voyageur-21-quot-Frame-Kool-Yellow-175

-Kurt

This might be the same one....

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/491454-Your-Catch-of-the-Day-Saved-from-the-Dump!?p=12241521&highlight=#post12241521

That's the one! I knew it would show up here.

If so, it looks much nicer now:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/714665-1973-Schwinn-World-Voyageur-21-quot-Frame-Kool-Yellow-175

-Kurt

Seeing that does not make me feel any better.

That sux. That's the name of the game though. People are shady sometimes, that's why I never get excited about a find until it's in my possession and I'm driving home! Something better will pop up no worries.

Seeing that does not make me feel any better.

Would a cheese steak improve matters? http://sdbikecommuter.com/extensions/Smile/tango/face-devil-grin.png

Sorry, had to.

-Kurt

Would a cheese steak improve matters? http://sdbikecommuter.com/extensions/Smile/tango/face-devil-grin.png

Sorry, had to.

-Kurt
Nah, after the seller didn't show up I drowned my sorrows in hot dogs and pork roll sandwiches at a piece of roadside Americana history. Luckily it was only 1 minute from the meeting place. Lifesaver!
http://www.jimmyjohns1940.com/

Craig's list can suck sometimes. Taylor pork roll sounds interesting. What is it?

I confess, it was me. It got it for $75 and the wheels had major structural issues and are not usable/safe. The seller was right near my place of work when he sent that picture out to everyone who had responded to the add. I called him right back and I picked it up not long after. I initially bought it for my son (he's 9) but it was too big for him.

I am sorry that the seller stiffed you and wasted your time. I am also sorry to have met you this way. If you let me know what you are looking for I would be happy to help in anyway that I can.

you have to be willing to pretty much jump in the car immediately if you want to actually get the good deals

Only the experience bike hunter knows how true that statement is!

Craig's list can suck sometimes. Taylor pork roll sounds interesting. What is it?
A little history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_roll

I like it plain and simple. Grilled with a slice of cheese and a soft white roll.

the seller could have at least been decent enough to tell the op it was gone, even if he was going to sell it out from under him. that sucks

I confess, it was me. It got it for $75 and the wheels had major structural issues and are not usable/safe. The seller was right near my place of work when he sent that picture out to everyone who had responded to the add. I called him right back and I picked it up not long after. I initially bought it for my son (he's 9) but it was too big for him.

I am sorry that the seller stiffed you and wasted your time. I am also sorry to have met you this way. If you let me know what you are looking for I would be happy to help in anyway that I can.

Yeah, not your fault. I thought I had an agreement with the seller through email on Wednesday night. We set the time and place to pickup and I asked him for a pic on Thursday anyway just to see what I thought I was getting. At no point did he tell me he was still fishing for more money, or I might have offered more too. Oh well, it happens. Some day I will get my revenge on Chad of West Chester.

Just looking for something I can fix up and use on charity rides and such. Mid to high range that I can get cheap enough to spend some money fixing up but still get my money back down the road when I sell. I'm not really in a rush to get anything, but I keep an eye out on whats on craigslist. Lesson learned on this one, I'll make sure I run to the car next time.

The seller sees dollar signs...

I've been screwed out of a couple bikes, and my last bike purchase cost me twice the asking price due to some other donkey hole offering more money(after the seller already agreed to sell me the bike). Most bike folks are good natured, but there are some that just want to screw someone else out of a good deal.

Greed often causes disappointing behavior on both sides. Dishonesty seems to be the new social standard... assuming it was never the old one.

.....I thought I had an agreement with the seller through email on Wednesday night. We set the time and place to pickup ...

You did have a legally binding agreement - but verbal agreements are worth no more the paper they are written on, and unscrupulous sellers will often sell a bike to someone else for a few bucks more. Of course, (99% of the time) the buyer is not aware of any prior commitments made by the seller.
That's also why the worst thing a buyer can do is to offer more than the asking price to secure the sale.

<humor>

The solution is easy:

A. Fender1 sells the complete bike to Jettore.
B. Jettore sues the crap out of the C-lister after falling off the bike due to the "unsafe wheels,"
C. Lawsuit pays for the frame for both parties, and the Craigslist seller gets what is due to him.
D. Roll end credits.

</humor>

-Kurt

If so, it looks much nicer now:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/714665-1973-Schwinn-World-Voyageur-21-quot-Frame-Kool-Yellow-175

-Kurt

And more expensive... just for the frame. Nice that he will throw in the stem and seatpost for an extra $20.

On the other hand, how many times have sellers sat around waitng for somebody who "will definitely take the bicycle" and then never shows? Personally, I don't blame him for selling it to the first person to show up with hte cash, though he should have informed all the potential buyers that this was his policy.

Sorry to hear about this..... Shame on you fender1 LOL......

Really though, you need to move fast with cash when dealing on CL. Oh, as far as getting the sellers address goes, forget it. Any time I put something on CL I set up a safe PUBLIC meeting place so both of us can feel comfortable. NEVER give your address to an unknown person on CL so they can stop by when your not home and clean you out.

The original price was $50. How did it get up to $75?....

Obviously he offered more to get the bike.... I lost a couple bikes to someone that same way. I set up a time to look at a bike and got half way there and got a call telling me the bike just sold, cause someone offered more than their asking price.

On the other hand, how many times have sellers sat around waitng for somebody who "will definitely take the bicycle" and then never shows? Personally, I don't blame him for selling it to the first person to show up with hte cash, though he should have informed all the potential buyers that this was his policy.

^This.. I lost out on an awesome deal 2 weeks ago. Told the seller I will buy the bike, where and what time? He gave me the info, I show up and no bike. Seller said, "9 out 10 potential buyers do not show up so I sold it to the first one that did". He was apologetic and I was bummed but I already scored 2 deals that week so it had to be spread around.

I always tell the potential buyer that says he wants to buy it absolutely for sure, first one that shows up with the cash, plain and simple. I have held a bike for someone once. It was a 1983 Trek 720 and buyer was driving 200 miles one way for it.

I have told buyers that want to get the bike 3 days from now, no problem, just paypal me the money and add 5%. That hardly ever happens.

As a seller, if I agree to sell it at a set price, I sell it at that price.
If I agree to meet some one at a set time, I meet them there.
And if I stated that it was a "first-come first-served" proposition, that's exactly what it would be.
I expect the same courtesies as a buyer.

I don't know why this is hard for some people to grasp.

And more expensive... just for the frame. Nice that he will throw in the stem and seatpost for an extra $20.

That is an uncalled for jab at Fender1. It is obvious that he put a good deal of time and effort into prepping the frame and making it presentable. For that matter, it still remains a most reasonable price given what they'll fetch anywhere else.

It looks as if someone forgot to tell you that it is a free market out there. Guess you don't mind reading flipper threads, so long as you don't get to hear the profit margin, eh?

-Kurt

Obviously he offered more to get the bike.... I lost a couple bikes to someone that same way. I set up a time to look at a bike and got half way there and got a call telling me the bike just sold, cause someone offered more than their asking price.

Yes I did, at the sellers request. I was told there were 10 or 11 potential buyers and that many had offered more than the asking price. He asked me what mine was and I said $75. I figured he would have had offers that were higher based on what the bike is but he agreed. I am pretty sure it was because I was a convenient buyer and his risk of having someone not show up was minimized since I was so close.

That is an uncalled for jab at Fender1. It is obvious that he put a good deal of time and effort into prepping the frame and making it presentable; second of all, it is still a reasonable price.

It looks as if someone forgot to tell you that it is a free market out there. Guess you don't mind reading flipper threads, so long as you don't get to hear the profit margin, eh?

-Kurt

Kurt, no big deal. I make no apologies for trying to make a buck on a purchase that did not work out. It was my intent all along to flip this if it did not fit my son, as I ride a 60cm. I have won and lost on CL & Ebay many times, often to other BF memebers (one of whom is my brother!). The risk of "losing" is what makes "winning" fun. I also don't think the OP bears any ill wil

Also the price on it is just a shot in the dark. I have not really researched pricing on these frames. If anyone wants to make an offer, pm me.

The whole episode is lousy, because the seller failed to either delete the posting or be courteous (@!) enough to inform the OP that the bike had been sold. There was a previous thread about CL this past week, it's pitfalls, etc.. When I am driving an hour or more to see someone about a bike, I always ask them to call me in the event that someone beats me there. If this occurs, I can turn around and call it a day. Sometimes this happens, sometimes not. I have had more than my share of folks setting up times to come and buy a bike and never showing. I always ask them to call when they are on the way. This way if I am meeting them at the nearby commuter parking lot, they call me to tell me that they are there, and it takes me 10 minutes to drive down there to meet them. CL is good and bad.

Kurt, no big deal. I make no apologies for trying to make a buck on a purchase that did not work out.

Just the same, I find it two-faced and hypocritical for kaliayev to have called you out for trying to make an honest, fair buck on a used frame - one that you put a good deal of elbow grease into already - when, in another thread, he expressed the exact opposite sentiment by dissing Speedplay for sending a cease-and-desist letter to a flipper who was trying to sell 10 NIB Speedplay pedals under retail.

-Kurt

I always require a phone call confirmation before leaving the house when buying or selling on CL or ebay local pickup. I have delivered and picked up in the city more than an hours drive one way many times and have never had a no show and am most always able to work out a deal. Phone confirmation/communication is key. Seller should have communicated his intentions to the OP.

It's a jungle out there!

It's a jungle out there!

BTW, I tried to "lowball" that guy w/ the Waterford for you....no go. Sometimes you lose. Another BF'er is going to take it.

This situation has obviously turned out better for two people, at the expense of a third person. My question is, how could it have turned out badly for anyone if everyone had behaved honorably? Unless the seller couldn't afford his next meal he didn't need to sell it as quickly as possible, or for more than the agreed upon price. As long as the buyer had another way to get to work he didn't need another bike as quickly as possible. What's wrong with having some principles and forming a line, and what's wrong with "standing" in that line?

I guess I see buying something out from under someone on CL (etc.) the non-physical equivalent of grabbing something, as yet not-paid-for, out of someone's hands at a thrift store and racing them to the cashier. I know why dollar signs flash in people's eyes, I just don't know why we tolerate the destructive behavior it tends to cause. I miss a lot of fun things because I refuse to "play the game"... but a lot of other people miss out on the fun things I sell because I don't put up with that game from either side. When they try to undercut another buyer to get something I'm selling I either put them on the list or tell 'em to pound sand, depending on my interpretation of their general attitude.

BTW, I tried to "lowball" that guy w/ the Waterford for you....no go. Sometimes you lose. Another BF'er is going to take it.

No worries. If I really wanted it, I would have directly contacted the seller myself. I was on the fence, but figured if it somehow landed in my lap I wouldn't refuse it!

It appears you were in a similar boat. As the others said in your thread, it's worth the asking price. But it's not if you've got other bikes to ride and you're satisfied with them.

What's wrong with having some principles and forming a line, and what's wrong with "standing" in that line?

Because on Craigslist, buyers refuse to stand in that line. You might as well call the 90% that "commit" - and then flake out - prank calls.

-Kurt

Because on Craigslist, buyers refuse to stand in that line.

-Kurt


Yep, they just want to cut to the front...

Yep, they just want to cut to the front...

Or duck out of it, once they're first up.

-Kurt

What's wrong with having some principles and forming a line, and what's wrong with "standing" in that line?

Allow me to add a postscript to my last comment about the flip side of this discussion - courteous selling on C-list. Yes, even C-list sellers (surprise! ;)) deserve to be defended.

Sure, there are tons of jerk sellers on Craigslist, but it doesn't exclude the fact that even an ethical Craigslist seller will lose patience with fools who give the runaround - or don't show up.

Then there are the people who can't $hit or get off the pot:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyL--xU4aHI

Sounds like a reasonable request, eh?

Well, it wasn't.

Upon her visit to see the bike, this woman wasted 2 hours of my time (in the early evening, a.k.a, my dinnertime), ran her visit well into the stopover of someone else scheduled an hour ahead (not for the bike), requested a pedal swap, saddle adjustment, test drove the bike 5 or 6 times, and brought along a friend to critique the bike - all so she could call me two days later to return the damn thing because it's "so big" for her.

You'd think she would have figured that out when she spent those 2 hours debating about buying it. I could have screamed over the number of times she nagged about what bar tape color would look best on it.

-Kurt

^^ That is not what happen in the case of the OP.

The OP agreed to go see/buy the bike. Someone else calls, seller claims there are several other parties interested. 'Someone else' says "hey I'll give you this much more than that guy". Seller is greedy, as is Someone else..

And now the bike is sold in pieces...

^^ That is not what happen in the case of the OP.

The OP agreed to go see/buy the bike. Someone else calls, seller claims there are several other parties interested. 'Someone else' says "hey I'll give you this much more than that guy". Seller is greedy, as is Someone else..

And now the bike is sold in pieces...

+1
This is why when a seller asks me to up the ante on a bike, my response to them is always very terse (to say the least).

I'm just pissed at the seller on two issues. First on Wednesday night(when the craigslist post appeared) we had exchanged emails and I thought I had purchased the 2 bikes for $50. Then through Thursday with the photo sent to me and a couple texts back and forth confirming the Sat meeting everything seemed fine. At no point did he mention any other possible buyers and looking for more money. I knew the deal I was getting and would have offered more money if I was aware of a bidding war. He did not say anything and confirmed Saturday. Second issue being the fact he didn't notify me on Saturday and let me waste my time. It's all ok, karma will catch up with the seller.

Just the same, I find it two-faced and hypocritical for kaliayev to have called you out for trying to make an honest, fair buck on a used frame - one that you put a good deal of elbow grease into already - when, in another thread, he expressed the exact opposite sentiment by dissing Speedplay for sending a cease-and-desist letter to a flipper who was trying to sell 10 NIB Speedplay pedals under retail.

One is a corporation enforcing what has been viewed as excessive constraints on the market, the other is an individual expressing their opinion. I think an argument can be made there is no contradiction.

Whether the comment was in good taste in this context is another matter.

Fender1, did you buy the other bike? If so what was it?

The OP agreed to go see/buy the bike. Someone else calls, seller claims there are several other parties interested. 'Someone else' says "hey I'll give you this much more than that guy". Seller is greedy, as is Someone else..

Normally I wouldn't indulge the seller either, but the buyer isn't aware of any commitments the seller might have made or how the seller resolves those commitments.

The other bike was just a dirty ol lugged chrome paramount. No biggie.