Mountain Biking - Found a LOCAL LBS!! wow! Need opinions on Raleigh & Diamondbacks

I whined in a thread recently about how my closest LBS was about 2 hours drive...

Not true anymore, I tripped over one about 25 minutes drive!!! YAY!

Its a real hole in the wall kinda place.. He sells only Raleigh & Diamondback brands... and throws in a lifetime tuneup along with it.

I admit I know nothing about the two brands.. I have been drooling over full suspension bikes for some time now, and am presently saving up for one.

I am a XC rider, who loves to occasionally huck and drop off stuff. I ride fairly technical stuff. I am also a Clydesdale rider @ 6 foot 2 inches and 215 lean pounds. I'm still relatively new to XC, and have injuries to prove that. (Fell on my tailbone on a simple roll-down)

I am hoping to stay nearish $1,000 budget.

Bikes I have been drooling over include Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, Kona Coil dual's.... The Kona Hoss looks nice for a hardtail too :)

What I'm basically asking I guess, is if Raleigh and Diamondback's have similar quality for the buck, and what models might you suggest?

I noticed that they do use nice component sets on those in the shop tho.

Anyway, I am so glad to find a LBS!!! :)

I might add that I am not the kind to do BIG JUMPS... I consider anything more than 2 and half feet or so to be WAY out of my league... So I don't need a heavy heavy duty bike like those Specialized Big Hit's or anything.... I want something like a XC that can take some abuse.

http://www.diamondback.com/

I had a Raleigh M50 (http://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=3&itemid=18&va=0) that I rode the crap out of for 8 months before I got my Blur. Zero problems with it the entire time, and it was a cheap bike. At the same time, my wife had a Raleigh M80 (http://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=11&itemid=15&va=2) that was also a very trouble free bike (it's been sold and she rides a Specialized Epic Comp now). I've not had any experience with Diamondback, so you are on your own there. Congratulations on finding a closer LBS, now get over there and start test riding!

http://www.diamondback.com/items.asp?deptid=13&itemid=128&va=0 above your price R, looks nice?

http://www.diamondback.com/items.asp?deptid=13&itemid=131&va=0 is in the 700=1100 price range.

>Less to go wrong, and FS bikes you want a good linkage design, pivots etc..not saying a $1000 ones cheap or lousy, just if going that direction you might consider different companies.

I have an old Diamondback chromoly on the wall, it was fine, a bit heavy..didn't break anyway.

I did see the site, thanks... I was more or less wondering about personal experiences you all may have, most notably with the linkage design, like you said.

Diamondback XSL ELITE '05 Looks great!

I have to admit specialized's site showcasing the different linkage design really did a number in my mind about if other designs are good or not... I know it's marketing on specialized's part, and they obviously did a good job on me anyway :)

I'm specifically talking about this page:
http://www.specialized.com/sbc4Bar.jsp?a=b

The cool thing is XSL Elite '05 you showed looks similar to the FSR at least to me... Nice.

By the way.,... What's up with www.raleighusa.com and www.diamondback.com being almost exactly the same? I mean, the web design, even colors, and the interface is virtually the same.

Are they both owned by the same parent company or something?

Are they equal? I'm just wondering cause I'm pretty sure I saw one or the other (maybe both?) in X-Mart along with the Mongoose..

That cheapens the whole image IMO, even tho the higher ends may be on par with say, Trek, Specialized, etc...

By the way.,... What's up with www.raleighusa.com and www.diamondback.com being almost exactly the same? I mean, the web design, even colors, and the interface is virtually the same.

Are they both owned by the same parent company or something?

Are they equal? I'm just wondering cause I'm pretty sure I saw one or the other (maybe both?) in X-Mart along with the Mongoose..

That cheapens the whole image IMO, even tho the higher ends may be on par with say, Trek, Specialized, etc...The same web designer put them together http://www.afarsitebetter.com/. Raleigh also owns Diamondback and neither of them are worth a crap in my (never so) humble opinion. The only Raleigh's I like are the OLD threes speed models like the "Robin Hood" now THERE was a bike!

Raleigh also owns Diamondback and neither of them are worth a crap in my (never so) humble opinion. The only Raleigh's I like are the OLD threes speed models like the "Robin Hood" now THERE was a bike!

Yeah... I'm trying to shake the unfounded feeling of cheapness when I look at Raleigh/Diamondback... I don't want to just go with my knee jerk gut reaction on there, and you aren't helping any Raiyn! heh.

I'm sure they make some decent bikes... I just can't for some reason see them the same way I see brands like Cannondale, Trek, Specialized, Kona, and the likes. I am pretty sure it's because I've seen their lower ends in department stores in the past.


If I get a Raleigh or Diamondback, I'm putting on three front brakes... just in case. ;)

I would test ride a lot before purchasing any of those bikes. Also test ride those other companies bikes you mentioned. I test rode a diamondback hardtail just for fun and was dissapointed - even though it was a cheaper model (400 - 500). It just didn't seem to have the smoothness of the low end models from specialized, trek, kona, etc.

DO test ride though, its really the only way to know for sure if you are going to be happy with it.

My LBS dropped Raleigh because he couldn't get them to respond to warranty replacement of cracked frames and couldn't get things like rear derailleur hangers. My wife and I had M600's. Good bikes. Hoever, it took six months to get a hanger. I even called them and got a run-around. Luckily, I had a spare so I could still ride.

For a thousand, I'd go with a good hard tail with a cane creek suspension seat post if you ride much at all. Off-road riding is just hard on bikes. IMO you need sealed ball/rollar bearings at all suspension pivits (except the shock pivots) instead of bushings. A decent front fork is necessary or it won't last long.

My Specialized Stumpjumper listed for $1600 and I had to replace the fork in six months. It soon wobbled too much and got slightly bent. All I do is XC and I don't do jumps. However, I do up to 24 miles on single track when I ride and I ride often and year-round.

My ride/handling improved greatly with the new fork; a Fox. Discounted, it cost half of that thousand.

Al

I have an older diamondback dbr x-2, and while it's a decent bike I am looking to upgrade to something more xc oriented. Another reason I am looking for a new ride is DB's customer service. It is absolutely terrible. As Al.canoe said, it is near impossible to get something as simple as a new derailleur hangar. They will not send you one from the factory if you call them, and it took them a month to get the part to the closest DB dealer around here.

I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear right now, since you just found a LBS within a reasonable driving distance, but I'd really advise you to look elsewhere if it is at all possible.

No no, I want to hear whatever you guys have to say good or bad. Tell the truth I wasn't sold on diamondback/raleigh's either.. I wanted justifications one way or other ,along with my own legwork so I won't feel like I'm being a judgemental snobbish sonofab... :)

I hope the local LBS is understanding when I show up with a new ride that isn't from his shop, needing some work.

I'm slowly but surely gatheirng all the tools and buying a couple manuals, I'm gonna have to be my own LBS out of need, methinks.

Good, you're definately going into this with the right mentality then. Learning how to do things by yourself is the best way in my mind. That way you won't have to be one of the people who bring their bikes in to the shop to have something simple such as derailleur adjustment. Good luck in the ride search.

How do I adjust my derailer? :D

Slowly learning.... I just ordered Zinn Mt. Bike repair book, and that Zinn cycle skills (cant remember exact title).. Looking forward to it!

I'm silly though. I ordered some Time Z's pedals for my bike, and it should arrive today. And I ordered those books from Amazon and picked supersaver shipping, and it wont be here until end of Oct or first of Nov. Silly me :P

I did find out last night pedals are straightforward to at least remove :)

My HardRock Sport is my first victi...er...patient. It got a bit messed up in my recent bail-out that I got injuried in. This is a good opportunity for me to get mechanical with it. :)

I do need to take it to the LBS to get my wheels trued, though.. I dont have the tools nor enteprise right now.

A different idea, perhaps 'advanced' is to spend on a good frame, fork and swap out the Hardrock components.
?

Everyone needs a first patient, this site should help get you started with basic repir stuff at least while you're waiting for your books.

PARKTOOL BIKE REPAIR HELP (http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQindex.shtml)

I thought of that... But I think I am keeping the hardrock frame, its pretty awesome, its the components that are crap, it seems. I have problems with almost every one of them.

Cool park tools link, thanks!

Why not a fork\ component upgrade on the Hardrock? A HQ fork is around $500.


I dunno.

-do you want 2 O.K.\ good bikes or an awesome bike?

A good rear wheels $200. Fork $400, stuffs pricey, i'm always going used.

Not to tell you you should do this- but you could get a serious shift setup, HQ fork and tweak the Hardrock- And yes, frames get smushed? all that componentry comes off- onto a new bike. I'm riding parts now that are intended for my next frame.

I'm really more interested in frameworks as that is the real structure of the ride.
Meaning- you like the Hardrock? Tweak it, ride it, break it, build a new bike from the corpses components.

That's a very good plan.. I will probably go with that plan :)

HQ= High Quality, right?

Yeah, those are expensive numbers when they're broken down.. when you buy "a bike" you dont really know what cost what, so you dont notice. but when it gets broken down to 500 bucks for a fork.. EEK! hehe

But its broken down into managable chunks...

I'm thinking of maybe 2 good bikes, or 1 good 1 awesome bike. Probably end up with 2 good bikes, and getting an awesome duallie in a year or two. This stuff is an inve$tment up front! Tools, parts and what not.

I guess after you do this for a while, it evens out.... somewhat.. anyway as long as you dont break your high ticket items hehe :)

You could do something like what I did with my two bikes.
My Rockhopper FSR (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=545760#post545760)
And
My Hardrock (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=545751#post545751)
I had done some minor upgrades to the Hardrock over the years until I got the Rockhopper. Once I got that I upgraded the crap out of the Rockhopper and used the newer stock components from that bike to upgrade my Hardrock. I'm pretty pleased with the results.

Well it seems to me that the front shock comes off most floor models pretty quick.

At $1000 distributed through an entire bike (factor the fact the retailer gets some 2-300$) $700 is not going to get you a super disc brake, or a hydraulic front suspension.

A nice shift, brake set up makes so much difference to the feel of a bike. Also if you don't wreck it, you can put on a different frame later.

Well it seems to me that the front shock comes off most floor models pretty quick.

At $1000 distributed through an entire bike (factor the fact the retailer gets some 2-300$) $700 is not going to get you a super disc brake, or a hydraulic front suspension.

A nice shift, brake set up makes so much difference to the feel of a bike. Also if you don't wreck it, you can put on a different frame later.All very true points. Most people will swap the fork out very quickly after buying a bike at this price point, soon to be followed by drivetrain components. Much of this has to do with the fact that the model they bought usually shares a frame with a bike they really want but is out of their immediate price range.

First thing is drivetrain.. I thnk... The chain keeps doing crazy stuff and shifting randomily.. I dont know enough to fix it myself, but I have manuals coming and I am a quick learner. If I can fix it so it shifts better, then I may hang onto it longer and start eyeing the fork instead. :)

This thread has inspired me a lot, thanks guys, if you have more thoughts, keep them coming! :)

Love your bikes, Raiyn! What you did to your hardrock is EXACTLY what I want to do to it when I get a better bike, change it to an urban assault vechile, all pavement and stil be able to hop stuff. I think I would destroy a road bike in no time, why I would never get a nice road bike. I've never riden one anyway before.

When did Hardrock stop coming in steel? I used to have a 1993 (4?) hardrock.. I miss it so dearly. That was an awesome bike, all decked out with commuter gear.. It got stolen. :(

My current one is AL.. Hardrock sport 04, its pretty nice.

By the way, i think its about time to change my sig which currently is:
"I ride my specialized hardrock sport 2004 way too hard, I should have saved up for something a bit beefier....."

hehe

Love your bikes, Raiyn! What you did to your hardrock is EXACTLY what I want to do to it when I get a better bike, change it to an urban assault vechile, all pavement and stil be able to hop stuff. I think I would destroy a road bike in no time, why I would never get a nice road bike. I've never riden one anyway before.

When did Hardrock stop coming in steel? I used to have a 1993 (4?) hardrock.. I miss it so dearly. That was an awesome bike, all decked out with commuter gear.. It got stolen. :(

I don't remember when the Hardrock stopped coming in steel.
It IS a fun ride :D
I still have a couple of mods planned for it - new wheelset being high on the list as is a rigid fork.

I have a Raleigh M50 that's two years old and it's been a great bike, virtually trouble-free. I'm not a small rider (6'5" 260lbs) and the M50 handles my size perfectly. Components aren't top of the line, but they function without a hitch, and for the price I think you get an excellent value with Raleigh.

By the way, Raleigh and Diamondback are owned by the same company, so they each have bikes that are essentially comparable to each other with different paint and decals.

Thanks Randy Z I was thinking that was the case... They DO look pretty much the same, except for the paintjob of course.

What is your style of riding, Randy Z? Do you ride rough off road stuff?

I do, and I have trouble with my specialized hardrock.. and I DO take care of it.. :(


An aside.. My shipment of my new Time Z pedals came out.. I think I have a problem.. I think I got two left pedals.. :( *sob sob*

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=687591#post687591

I don't remember when the Hardrock stopped coming in steel.
It IS a fun ride :D
I still have a couple of mods planned for it - new wheelset being high on the list as is a rigid fork.


That's cool...

I know this thread has mutated back and forth to be related to Raleigh/Diamondback and to my plans for my rides and such...


So hope you will bear with my question I have..

I'm not sure why anyone would want to go back to a rigid fork on a MTB? I mean, I used to have a all rigid steel specialized hardrock 93 and I remember it being rough... yet such a sweet ride.

Despite that, this is my first experience with suspension of any kind (RST Gaia 3) and I am really amazed atthe difference, I really like it. And it's a cheap cheap suspension compared to others. So I imagine my enjoyment will only increase with quality.

So.. why back to rigid?

Just curious, and learning. Thanks :)

Kinda depends on how nice the frame has been built- HQ chromoly frames are tensile, with a chromo fork this increased. If I'm tearing down a road and see a pothole I adjust my cadence to hit the lip on the downstroke- give it a hard push- the bike lifts a little up- I'm over.

I've gone chromo stem and seatpost to increase the effect. with no suspension you are able to maximise the power into the cranks- no bobbing. It is a flex, tensile- one push back, not the bob-bob loss of energy flex.

Also I'm into some high speed cornering and there is something to be said for having a fixed axle in relation to the frame and planting it where you want it.

I don't think this is explored in Alu, but chromoly racing bikes are a blast, and it is not super hard to land small jumps on ridged, just hard to do all day, and downhillin' makes your arms numb.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=70134

I went more for a reduced design, also to achieve 22 lbs to make the bike agile. You only need one chainring ya know. :D

This bike MAY get gusseted, then run suspension. It's fine as is really.
Just need a real dually chain tensioner. Next purchase..Hehe.

Hey...BMX don't run no stinkin' suspension- those guys catch some BIG air.

No kidding there.. I just watched chain reaction 2.. a dvd with a lot of jumping, down hill and stuff.. had a lot of BMX. I am amazed with the skills they all have. Wow :)

Good post about chromo.

That's cool...

I'm not sure why anyone would want to go back to a rigid fork on a MTB? I mean, I used to have a all rigid steel specialized hardrock 93 and I remember it being rough... yet such a sweet ride.

So.. why back to rigid?

Just curious, and learning. Thanks :)Four reasons

The fork that's on it has 45mm (yes 45mm) of travel. Putting a new suspension fork of 80+ mm of travel will screw the handling of the bike.
The bike never goes off road anymore so suspension is kind of pointless
A rigid fork will shave at least 3 lbs off the front end
The carbon bar plus the grips will take care of any road vibration

ahh yeah I see now. Cool.

ahh yeah I see now. Cool.
Kinda figured you would :D

Upgrading your Hardrock is a good idea and seems suited to your needs, I like what Raiyn done to his HardRock, and I'll show you some picture's of my GT Aggressor I suppose it is of similar spec to your stock HR, I bought the GT as a re-entry to mtn. biking after a 7 year period off.

I really enjoyed upgrading and I tried to fit as much of it as possible and do any repairs, hands on and all that, so when the book come's (or check out parktools website its good) learn how to do your gears its not to hard but it sure is satifying if you can do it.
Be careful choose wisely I'm sure you will as your going about it the right way already. But a few points if you are going to upgrade your bike try to think ahead for example; One of the first things I broke on my bike was the rear wheel, so I decided to buy a new handbuilt wheel set and stupidly I got non-disc hubs because I thought I would not want or need disc brake's in the near future. Then I got a fork with 100mm travel because it was in stock had a discount and suited my bike although I did want the 125 travel one, now I can afford a new frame and the frame I want is suited to a 125mm fork which is going to take me another 6 months to save for it, then its disc only so I'll also need new wheels and brake's. This is what happens when you pickle your brain you do things you regret...
I'll send you some picture's of my GT with all its upgrade's, I have turn'd it into a aggresive XC, light freeride bike, it should be a good indication of what you can do to your HR. But be warn'd you can end up spending serious money as it can be addictive like drugs! With the money I spent I could of bought a Kona Coiler or something similar (although it would of taken a year and half to get it). Still the changes made to my GT have made a huge difference in its strength and feel, and has made me want to ride my bike further, faster and better :x heh?

Marc

Cool post Evo.. Yeah, I'm at the point where I'm trying to make a big picture "road map". I notice the expenses are akin to a drug addiction, that's for sure. Ohhh I'm jonseying out for my Time ATAC Z pedals! oohh I need a better grade of forks.. This degreaser has the best yadda yadda.

I sure hope the expenses start settling down even if just a tad after I've gotten all the tools... Tools are expensive! :)

I've noticed I pretty much like tooling around on the bike as much as I do riding.. So I guess that's a good thing. :)

I sure hope the expenses start settling down even if just a tad after I've gotten all the tools... Tools are expensive! :)


Don't we all... :)

I find it funny that their $$$$$$ is over 1800, when i have put almost that amount into my 4300, I think they are a good beginner bikr, but aside from that are poopy.

My wife and I have a pair of 2003 M60 Raleighs and both have been problem free for XC use. They have good components for the money. If you do your research you will see that it is hard to beat Raleigh in the $300-500 price point. Raleigh and Diamonback make solid bikes but if you need to ride a brand, instead of a bike, you should look into Specialized, Kona, etc. In other words, if you are or want to become a bike snob look elsewhere.

I find it funny that their $$$$$$ is over 1800, when i have put almost that amount into my 4300, I think they are a good beginner bikr, but aside from that are poopy.
Now that's just silly.

bike snob? Not I.. thats why I started this thread.. I am doing my research :)

I am looking beyond the 300-500 budget now, though.. I already have one of those.. A Specialized Hardrock 2004. I'm looking to add a high quality dual suspension to my collection.

Do you have any experience with those you can share? That is what I started this big thread about to begin with :)

bike snob? Not I.. thats why I started this thread.. I am doing my research :)

I am looking beyond the 300-500 budget now, though.. I already have one of those.. A Specialized Hardrock 2004. I'm looking to add a high quality dual suspension to my collection.

Do you have any experience with those you can share? That is what I started this big thread about to begin with :)
You didn't look at my other bike? :D


All that effort and money and they like my hack bike better SHEESH :lol:

My wife and I have a pair of 2003 M60 Raleighs and both have been problem free for XC use. They have good components for the money. If you do your research you will see that it is hard to beat Raleigh in the $300-500 price point. Raleigh and Diamonback make solid bikes but if you need to ride a brand, instead of a bike, you should look into Specialized, Kona, etc. In other words, if you are or want to become a bike snob look elsewhere.

I ride a 14yr Tom Ritchey mtb, and yes I'm a bike snob. Having a good bike of any name does not make you a snob.

Snobbery is a pesonality\ judgement issue. If you don't have a HQ bike, then you have a O.K. bike, below that, a crummy bike.

Oh, I actually don't care WHAT you ride, just how well you do it. Raliegh, Diamondback make O.K. bikes.

I don't see them as leaders in the industry, or able to pick competent components for thier mid level bikes. There are companies willing to give more, design harder for your bucks if you can spend more.

Some of the advice given is from riders who have ridden many models brand over the years, and they advice is perhaps tailored for new bike riders- (buy a complete bike)
Really, a bike starts with a frame,
Bike snobs buy frames and assemble bikes.

Rarely is this suggested as it is expensive and requires time.

I'm sorry if the recommendations steered the poster away from these 2 brands, I don't believe anywhere they were talked about as lousy bikes...unfortunatly they fall into the economy class, like cheap $ 7000 cars, they are only ment to run so long, then the life span of the inferior alloys cause constant failure-
You do not drop $3000 dollars fixing that car, it's meant to bre crushed and recycled into a new one.

This can be avoided, HQ cycling equiptment can be upgraded, fixed and ridden for years if built with a consideration to purchaser as to any 'planned' obselecence.

I have a DiamondBack hanging on the wall- it served its purpose, I had a Nice old Raliegh too, got stolen.

Now having ridden both companies, I'd say yes the make a solid bike..A great bike..well maybe @ the top of the line- but then it really comes down to them matching the component groups of other companies and how competent the frame welding\ design is.

Of which they are not leaders, they are followers.

Raiyn yes I did look at your other bike, I really liked it, too... :) I just paid more attention to your hack bike, cause thats what I have now.. hehe

Jeff, no, you didn't give me the impression that these two companies were to be avoided... Not at all. I WAS wondering about leader/follower thing, and you confirmed this for me in your nice summary :)

I've pretty much decided that despite having a LBS that carries Raleigh/Diamondback, that my heart is really on Specialized or Kona's.

Does that make me a snob?

Maybe so... I did explore my options carefully trying to hold back my biases, not just make a knee jerk reaction like a lot of bike snobs do.. :)

I will definately get a raleigh or diamondback for say my wife, if she expresses any interest eventually.. I hope she does :)

But for me, personally, I guess I *AM* a snob after all- I like high quality stuff, good enough doesn't do it for me. Its not that I wanna be the coolest Fred around, I'm the only biker I know locally, I bike alone.. I just like a SWEET ride. :)

Raiyn yes I did look at your other bike, I really liked it, too... :) I just paid more attention to your hack bike, cause thats what I have now.. hehe

:)
I was teasing but you figured that out. :D

Yeah... I'm trying to shake the unfounded feeling of cheapness when I look at Raleigh/Diamondback... I don't want to just go with my knee jerk gut reaction on there, and you aren't helping any Raiyn! heh.

I'm sure they make some decent bikes... I just can't for some reason see them the same way I see brands like Cannondale, Trek, Specialized, Kona, and the likes. I am pretty sure it's because I've seen their lower ends in department stores in the past.


If I get a Raleigh or Diamondback, I'm putting on three front brakes... just in case. ;)


I'm very impressed with their Talus (this year's top end Raleigh hardtail is the Lahar). The fork in the Talus may have to be swapped out for the jumps you do, and they don't accept dual-crown forks (on;y their higher end FS bikes do). But I found the bike was very good on control, as it's more of an XC bike than anyhting else. I don't do any air though, so you might be better off with their FS bikes.

I also own a Diamondback, but it was their bottom-end so I cant say much, however it has taken plenty of miles on with no problems whatsoever. My thoughts on their bikes are these bikes are fine so long as you use them as DB/Raleigh Inteded that model to be used for.

I am happy to hear all that, catatonic, especially since that is what my LBS carries. I have a place now I can point my friends and my wife toward when they inquiry about where to get a good bike and they plan to go to Walmart. What the LBS has is many times better what Walmart can ever hope to offer.

It's that, or travel one and half hours to St. Louis or buy mailorder/online, which is something that usually the casual get-feet-wet biker newbie won't do.

I've owned a Raliegh Inferno SX and ridden it hard. Still own it. Tough bikes, with your weight, the Raliegh wound't event dent. For $1,000 you could buy a better bike. Raliegh owns Diamondback. Something like Nissan and Infinity, Toyota and Lexus, Honda and Acura.

I do a combination of road and trail riding, the trails being mostly hardpack and fireroad type trails. I'm not an agressive rider by any means, but I love the versatility of the MTB and the Raleigh suits my purpose just fine.

Raleigh and DiamondBack are fine bikes for less than $1000. There are a number of models to choose from if you coose Raleigh! there are the M20, M30, M40,M50,M60,and the full suspension ones are great too. Each model differs on its components. Choose wisely. DiamondBack are nice and they also have a full suspension that i can recommend to you. Take the XSL Trail.n Freeride born identity and nice components are on the menu! But its more than a gran im sure! but its worth it! :D