General Cycling Discussion - Why is it that trainer mileage is not considered real mileage?

I mean a mile is a mile right? Whether you ride a bike, walk or drive a car you are still travelling a mile, correct? A mile is the same distance whether or not it is traversed on a dirt path, gravel road, asphalt road way, a roadway paved with concrete & even one traverwed on a bike trainer or rollers correct?

Ok so let's get back to the real question at hand. The one regarding riding a mile or more by bicycle & the differance in doing it on a roadway or a trainer.

I'll use this as an easy & simple example: If I ride my bike from home to the intersection of Hamilton Blvd & Outer Drive & back I know it will be a total of 2 miles. But if I ride the 2 miles on my trainer isn't it the same physical distance as riding to Hamilton & Outer Drive & back?

So why the issue/concern/controversey over riding & keeping track of mileage on a trainer? I have had people tell me that riding a mile on a trainer is not the same distance of riding a mile on the road. I don't understand how that can be. A mile is a little over 5,000 feet in lenght, (don't know the exact distance). So why does it make a differance if that distance is riden on a trainer or on the open road?

Granted me & the bike stay in one place while I'm pedalling on a trainer, but the as the rear wheel spins & the magnet passes the sensor over & over again my computer is keeping track of how far, or should I say the equalivilant to how far I have gone.

If you want to count miles ridden on a trainer, then do so. If you want to count miles ridden in your dreams, do so. It's not like there's some international organization that determines which miles 'count' and which do not.

So why the issue/concern/controversey over riding & keeping track of mileage on a trainer? I have had people tell me that riding a mile on a trainer is not the same distance of riding a mile on the road. I don't understand how that can be. A mile is a little over 5,000 feet in lenght, (don't know the exact distance). So why does it make a differance if that distance is riden on a trainer or on the open road?


The difference is that if you're out there on the road, you're dealing with the elements -- the wind, the rain, the heat, the cold (for those in cooler climates than mine), the differing road surfaces. They all make up part of the riding experience. In fact, many of my most memorable rides would have been considerably less so without any of the above factors. So while it may be "the same distance", it's hardly a challenge on the same scale.

In anycase, it's really your own decision just which miles you log and which you don't. It's the same for everyone. I could just as easily put down a fabricated 250km ride that I did "in spirit" in my log, but the only person I'd be cheating in that situation would be myself, so I don't.

Dang! I'm wasting my time riding at the indoor track!.... :eek:

so a century on a trainer doesn't count?

Well, I think the calibration of the trainer is a rather tricky sort of thing. On a trainer, you can set the resistance really low and get the wheels spinning like all get out and viola', you have a pile of miles. Of course, you were averaging 29 mph and you were not even breathing hard. So I think calibration is an issue.

A way to calibrate the trainer would be to know what mph you do at certain heart rates on the road and convert over with the trainer. If you do 18 mph at 150 bpm and you train at 150 bpm for an hour, you have probably done the equivilent of 18 miles.

The problem with the above is it is easy to "cheat". It is harder to cheat out on the road. You may say, "I have done my 18 miles" but if you are not back to your ride start, what you say is immaterial.

I think this is why quite a few people are skeptical of "trainer miles". Keep track of them by all means as a way to track your training, but just remember they are all too easy to fudge.

i think the only way to be accurate, is to go by hours on a trainer. Miles will be off...plus on a trainer you dont deal with the weight load you deal with as a moving object on the road. You can emulate that resistance, but it's not the same.

at least to me:

road = miles
trainer = hours

Do whatever suits your training needs.

No one is looking over your shoulder.

I keep track of my trainer miles, as best as I can estimate them, for my own purposes. I am only competing against myself, so who cares?

As far as being in the "elements" is concerned, IMHO, it takes a lot more guts to do a boring hour on the trainer than it does to ride an hour in the elements. Given the opportunity, the trainer is my last choice of activities. However, I am also not going to go out in 0 degrees Fahrenheit in a wind of 20-30 mph just to prove some sort of useless point.





The problem with the above is it is easy to "cheat". It is harder to cheat out on the road. You may say, "I have done my 18 miles" but if you are not back to your ride start, what you say is immaterial.




If I do 18 miles up and down hills, and you do 18 miles on the flats, are they the same 18 miles?

If I do 18 miles at 10,000 feet and you do yours at sea level, are they the same?

If I do 18 miles in heavy winds and you do yours when it is calm, are they the same?

If I do 18 miles at an average speed of 20 mph, and you do yours at an average 12 mph, are they the same?

There is no way to get "comparability" between different persons reported mileage. It is silly to try. So, keep track of what you would like to keep track of for your own training purposes, in whatever manner you might like!

If I do 18 miles up and down hills, and you do 18 miles on the flats, are they the same 18 miles?

If I do 18 miles at 10,000 feet and you do yours at sea level, are they the same?

If I do 18 miles in heavy winds and you do yours when it is calm, are they the same?

If I do 18 miles at an average speed of 20 mph, and you do yours at an average 12 mph, are they the same?

There is no way to get "comparability" between different persons reported mileage. It is silly to try. So, keep track of what you would like to keep track of for your own training purposes, in whatever manner you might like!

Right on. Let me add ;)

If I do 18 miles on my knobbies and you do yours on slicks, are they same :rolleyes:

If I do 18 miles on my 25#, panniered loaded touring bike and you do yours on a 15# carbon fiber racer, are they the same :o

If I do 18 hilly miles on my 42/16 geared fixie and you do yours on a 53/42 front and 23/11 rear, are they the same :eek:

If I do 18 miles playing stoker for my wife on the tandy and you do yours on the single stem, are they the same :p

If I do 18 miles after gorging down a number 3 burrito combo with 3 corona chasers and you do yours on power bars and gatorade, are they the same :D

If I do 18 miles in billy bob ravine with darrell and his brother darrell chasing me down with whiskey and a gleam in their eyes and you do yours on the burbville bike trail, are they the same :eek:

Miles is not miles :D

Right on. Let me add

I like your examples better than mine!

Agree about calibrating the resistance on a trainer. My trainer has both air-resistance and magnetic resistance. I find that spinning in a high gear with the fan only feels *about* like spinning on a flat, smooth road in a moderate gear. If I add the magnetic resistance, which has 8 levels, it gets real hard fast - feels like a steep hill. I can barely turn the pedals in the big ring, with mag on the highest level. What helps me judge is the watt-meter on the trainer. I know it's only a rough estimate but if reading 100Watts then I'm not even sweating. I can maintain 150-175 Watts for an hour. 200 Watts feels like a time trial. 225-275 are like intervals. I also have a book of indoor trainer interval workouts, that I do twice a week in the winter. Each page builds on the previous workout and it's designed to be completed through the winter season. I've never made it through the whole book - the workouts just get way too hard!

Why do you even want to count miles on the trainer???? In case you don't know, it is extreme bordom to spend 5 hours on the trainer versus riding outside for that long. To answer your question, it is inhuman and abusive to spend long time on the trainer. Therefore, you just can't get miles from riding on a trainer. Second, your fitness on the trainer does not translate onto the real world of riding on open road. Counting miles on the trainer is pointless. In fact, this off season, I will try to skip the trainer session all together.

It doesn't make any difference. If we're talking specifically about distance, your bicycle measures a mile by counting wheel revolutions. Once they've spun enough to equal a mile, by golly it's a mile! Now, if we're trying to equate the amount of excersize we get by spinning our wheels a mile on a trainer versus doing it on the road, it's a very difficult thing to do. That's why when we talk about miles, it's probably a good idea to specify if they were accumulated on a trainer, on the road, going down a 10% grade, and so on. It allows us to relate the circumstance to our own experiences and thus get a better understanding of what you did. I count trainer miles during the off season just so that I can track my excersize effort. But I don't intermingle them with road miles.

One thing's for sure.......doing a century on a fixed gear ain't the same as doing one on a geared bike!

I use a 1upusa trainer. It dosen't have a tension adjustment, so you can't cheat. You are pedaling against a clutch that resists more the faster you try to go. You use your gears. It is actually like riding slightly uphill the whole way.

Computrainers do the same thing. As you go faster, resistance gets harder, making it feel like you're going against a wind. They also simulate terrain fairly well, so you can go 18 miles all downhill if you want, or 18 miles up a 20% grade, and the resistance changes drastically. Doesn't make it as exciting and fun as the actual road, though.

I use a 1upusa trainer. It dosen't have a tension adjustment, so you can't cheat. You are pedaling against a clutch that resists more the faster you try to go. You use your gears. It is actually like riding slightly uphill the whole way.

How do you like that trainer? Is it quiet? Have you compared it to the CycleOps Fluid 2 (Ive seen their comparison, wonder if you have any)?

I think everybody's wrong here. Nobody never "rides" any "miles" on a trainer. You only produce an effort which is electronically translated into "miles" for convenience's sake. That's it, that's all. You could translate this effort into watts, or calories, or megabytes, or dollars, whatever you want...

Riding a mile is when you ride from point A to point B, which is 1 mile away from point A.

If you keep records for only for yourself, do whatever your conscience dictates. But if you are going to list miles in this forum, you should tell us how many of them are trainer miles. Why? Because it matters to many, if not most, of your readers. Those readers who don’t care about the difference can still look at the total. But those who care about the difference will understand what your numbers really mean.

As someone who commutes through the snow and ice, I believe there is an enormous difference between the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles inside while watching sitcom reruns, and the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles in 10F over icy roads.

I occasionally use stationary bikes when traveling. I would never think about adding that time to what I consider my real total.

riding on a trainer at 25 mph is even easier than riding on the road at 25 mph with a 25 mph tailwind. That would effectively elimate the wind resitance factor. But the friction with the road is much greater than rollers too, so it would be tough to compare the two directly.

I like the idea of comparing heart rates.

riding on a trainer at 25 mph is even easier than riding on the road at 25 mph with a 25 mph tailwind. That would effectively elimate the wind resitance factor. But the friction with the road is much greater than rollers too, so it would be tough to compare the two directly.

I like the idea of comparing heart rates.

Using the Spinervals Videotapes, I DID compare heart rates last year, and found that my heart rate with the training videos far exceeded my general heart rates on the bike outside.

You would be amazed at the amount of sweat you can work up, even using a fan.

When you say riding on a trainer at 25 mph is so easy, you must not have used a training video, which are filled with interval training, high speed, high drag, and a variety of other strenuous activities.

Try using your trainer to train, not just to pedal 25 miles per hour. It makes a world of difference.




As someone who commutes through the snow and ice, I believe there is an enormous difference between the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles inside while watching sitcom reruns, and the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles in 10F over icy roads.

Okay, and I will work much harder on my trainer using high resistance and interval training that riding 10 miles on a sunny Saturday afternoon.

You simply can not put rules around mileage reporting, as each time you do someone will shoot your assumptions down.

10 miles is not 10 miles is not 10 miles. Only way to compare would be to have the identical track.

Please see the previous discussion on all the variables on mileage reporting.

Okay, and I will work much harder on my trainer using high resistance and interval training that riding 10 miles on a sunny Saturday afternoon.

You simply can not put rules around mileage reporting, as each time you do someone will shoot your assumptions down.

10 miles is not 10 miles is not 10 miles. Only way to compare would be to have the identical track.

Please see the previous discussion on all the variables on mileage reporting.
Yeah, but you avoided my point that, when reporting mileage to this Forum, you should make it clear what miles were done on a trainer because it matters to many, if not most, of your readers. Those readers who don’t care about the difference can still look at the total. But those who care about the difference will understand what your numbers really mean.

What you keep track of for your own purposes is your own business.

[QUOTE=Daily Commute]
As someone who commutes through the snow and ice, I believe there is an enormous difference between the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles inside while watching sitcom reruns, and the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles in 10F over icy roads.

QUOTE]

I agree. I'd ride ten miles through a blizzard without a thought if there was somewhere I had to go. However, I'm not sure what it would take to force me to ride a trainer like a damn hamster in a wheel, even if I didn't have to watch TV (which I despise) :) To me, the really dedicated ones are the folks who manage to exercise just for the purpose of exercise, whether on a trainer or a bike.

Paul

[QUOTE=Daily Commute]
As someone who commutes through the snow and ice, I believe there is an enormous difference between the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles inside while watching sitcom reruns, and the type of dedication it takes to ride 10 miles in 10F over icy roads.

QUOTE]

I agree. I'd ride ten miles through a blizzard without a thought if there was somewhere I had to go. However, I'm not sure what it would take to force me to ride a trainer like a damn hamster in a wheel, even if I didn't have to watch TV (which I despise) :) To me, the really dedicated ones are the folks who manage to exercise just for the purpose of exercise, whether on a trainer or a bike.

Paul
I've often noticed that lots of people qualify their mile by saying what kind of terrain it was on and what kind of weather they faced. Distinguising trainer miles isn't much different. I'm not saying trainer miles are evil, but I think we'd all have a different view of a 4000 mile year if 3000 of the miles were on a trainer.

Maybe the way I'd put it is that you get credit for exercising on a trainer. You get credit for cycling on the road.

How do you like that trainer? Is it quiet? Have you compared it to the CycleOps Fluid 2

I really like the 1upusa. It is quiet, you can watch TV at a normal volume. I did not actually ride a Cyclops Fluid 2, I did not want fluid after reading so much about people having leakage problems.


riding on a trainer at 25 mph is even easier than riding on the road at 25 mph with a 25 mph tailwind.

Not on this trainer. You won't ride this one at 25mph in anything but a sprint. It is harder than the road riding solo, not in a pack. If that is not enough, you can change the position of the balls in the clutch (in about 10 minutes) and make it even tougher. I am 6ft 193lbs and have ridden a few mountain centuries and the regular setting is tough enough for me.

Plus, a lifetime waranty.

I have an old Nashbar trainer that gets its resistance from air only, and it's not adjustable. It goes well with my old steel, friction shift, 10 speed. On the road, I have never exceeded 17mph average for a solo ride. On the trainer, I can easily do 19, and do 20 with moderate effort. I would say that it depends on the trainer and how you have it set up. On the trainer, you don't have to ride up hills, start repeatedly from a stop, or have to deal with obstacles. Having said that, I don't really have a problem combining different types of miles. I keep a log and combine recreational miles on my road bike with commuting miles on my mtb.

A trainer is what you yourself make of it, it can be a very hard workout with heart rate at a high constant level or a easy spin session, much the same as a bike ride outside. Counting trainer miles is up to and don't let anybody tell you it is not the right thing to do. I find it funny some of the claims for average mph on the road on these forums and when asked they live on the Bonniville salt flats, those flat miles should not count either.

ummh , I just started using a trainer because its getting cold and I dont feel like riding out in the cold this year. Last year I rode through the winter season. The cold didn't bother me much because I would warm up as my heart rate got up, but it wasn't good at all for my bones, so this year I'm not going to subject my body to that again. I plan on working really hard on the trainer so I can stay in shape and get back on the road and start smoking, but now I'm questioning if I'm going to be able to get a better workout on the trainer than I did on the road,compared to last year.

If others can count trainer miles the same as miles ridden on the road, can I add the miles I walk around town? At least I'm moving from Point A to Point B.

Once again, trainer miles should count as exercise, not cycling, IMHO. If you report miles to the forum, let us know so the people who care can tell the difference. Even when you report road miles, it is helpful to know if they were in the mountains, the flats, good weather, winter weather, etc. Many people already make that kind of distiniction, so trainer riders should do the same.

so a century on a trainer doesn't count?
I think if you do the century in five days its not considered a century, I century must be ridden in one continuous riding onthe bike, that's what I think, well somebody might differ from my opinion

so the people who care

Could you supply a list of "people who care" and why they care?

I want to be sure to get this correct, next time I report mileage.

Thanks.

I only ride 10 miles at a time on my trainer. Can not stand to go any longer, even in front of the TV. But I keep track by miles not time or heart rate. Hell I don't even wear my HRM anymore. After using it for a while I now know what my HR is by the way I feel, how hard I'm riding, how fast I'm going, etc. Of course a lot of it is based on the wind, hills, etc when I ride outside. On the trainer it is not that much more difficult to figure it out.

One thing about trainer or roller riding vs. riding on the open road is if you stop pedalling you stop moving period. On the open road you can stop pedalling but continue rolling forward. So IMO you MIGHT get more of a physical workout & benefit on a trainer then you might on the open road.

As far as being in the "elements" is concerned, IMHO, it takes a lot more guts to do a boring hour on the trainer than it does to ride an hour in the elements.

I'm in total agreement here. I've tried everything to keep from getting bored on the trainer. I've even been known to try and work while riding with the trainer. I can barely handle 30 mins. And 45 mins on the trainer is pure unmitigated torture as far as I'm concerned. I can however disappear for ten hours outdoors on a bike without a problem although my wife might take issue with that. I think most people count time on the trainer versus miles because time is more the limiting factour when you're pedalling and going nowhere.

Could you supply a list of "people who care" and why they care?

I want to be sure to get this correct, next time I report mileage.

Thanks.
DnvrFox,
take it easy Dude, your heart, take good care of your heart, will just take note of this people and will probably ban them from Bikeforums agree
oscar

DnvrFox,
take it easy Dude, your heart, take good care of your heart, will just take note of this people and will probably ban them from Bikeforums agree
oscar

Hey, I was smiling :D as I wrote that - I happen to think this is up on top of the "silliest concerns of the century," and that anyone who has time to be bothered by whether or not I include trainer miles in my mileage needs to get some real worries, or at least a life. Just my droll sad sense of humor coming out there. :p

Heart is doing fine, thanks for the concern.

DnvrFox,
I know I just want to hear from a good friend, how are you?
oscar

If others can count trainer miles the same as miles ridden on the road, can I add the miles I walk around town? At least I'm moving from Point A to Point B.

Once again, trainer miles should count as exercise, not cycling, IMHO. If you report miles to the forum, let us know so the people who care can tell the difference. Even when you report road miles, it is helpful to know if they were in the mountains, the flats, good weather, winter weather, etc. Many people already make that kind of distiniction, so trainer riders should do the same.
So you want to know how hilly it was, how windy and from what direction and how long you rode into the wind, how hot it was, how cold it was, how much traffic, how much air you had in the tires plus how wide they were, what gear you were in, how much the bike weighed, how much you weigh, what your IQ is (very important) and how often you coasted down hill. Help me out and post what I have missed.

Two years ago, I had an injury which took me out of cycing for like three months..After two months, I gave in and almost religiously used my trainer...Needed a fix...
I did not record miles, but my log reflected hours on the trainer...Trainers helped a little to keep up some assemblance of fitness- but I still gained like 25 pounds..Hated it...

Two years ago, I had an injury which took me out of cycing for like three months..After two months, I gave in and almost religiously used my trainer...Needed a fix...
I did not record miles, but my log reflected hours on the trainer...Trainers helped a little to keep up some assemblance of fitness- but I still gained like 25 pounds..Hated it...
When I use my trainer in the winter I gain very little if any weight, if done right they are a very good and hard workout.

I'm not saying trainer miles are evil. They are good exercise machines, like a Stairmaster. But going out for a jog is more similar to road cycling than working on a trainer inside. Can I add running miles to my total without saying what I'm doing? Afterall, running is good exercise too?

As far as reporting miles, don't be silly. Most people who use these forums are smart enough to figure out what details are important and what are not. You can paint with a very broad brush, but it is helpful to give some idea about the conditions of your rides.

No one has rebutted this argument: You should list trainer miles separately from road/trail miles because some people using this forum see a difference. When you write "I rode 5K miles," many will assume that means road miles. Since you are honest people, I assume you will not want to deceive other forum users. Just separate out the trainer miles. Those of you who don't care can look at the total. Those who care can look at the road miles.

Could you supply a list of "people who care" and why they care?

I want to be sure to get this correct, next time I report mileage.

Thanks.

I care; put me on the list. Trainer mileage is trainer work. Road mileage is your mileage. I record trainer work in time, not mileage.

Oh, I forgot the "why" part. Why is because you may end up with more miles than me. :p

I just don't understand what the big deal is either way, I never counted the trainer miles but several of the people I rode with did. The trainer can be a harder workout than the bike if you make it that way so I guess we need to keep track of our heart rate and post that so the people that care can make sure you are riding hard enough.

I care; put me on the list. Trainer mileage is trainer work. Road mileage is your mileage. I record trainer work in time, not mileage.

Oh, I forgot the "why" part. Why is because you may end up with more miles than me. :p

Oay.

Well, due to a lot of riding this week - 24 hours per day, outside, I now officially have 24,126.8 miles this year. Did I beat you?

:D

I mean, anyone can report anything and how would we know?

So, again, I keep miles for MY purposes, not anyone elses.

Oay.

Well, due to a lot of riding this week - 24 hours per day, outside, I now officially have 24,126.8 miles this year. Did I beat you?

:D

I mean, anyone can report anything and how would we know?

So, again, I keep miles for MY purposes, not anyone elses.
Keep your own mile for your own purposes anyway that helps you. I only ask that if you chose to report miles to the forum, you say which were done on the road and which on the trainer.

Keep your own mile for your own purposes anyway that helps you. I only ask that if you chose to report miles to the forum, you say which were done on the road and which on the trainer.

Nope.

You will just have to guess! :D

Keep your own mile for your own purposes anyway that helps you. I only ask that if you chose to report miles to the forum, you say which were done on the road and which on the trainer.
Why would you care what I did on my bike/trainer? Riding a mountain bike versus a road bike gives a very differant mileage total so do you need to know what type of bike I ride also?

Let's assume that person A reports 4,500 miles and person B reports 4,500 miles, and they are both outside, non-trainer miles.

Person A lives in Florida, rides flats at sea level, weighs 146 pounds, averages 19 mph, rides in a group and always drafts, rides a Serotta with light wheels, never encounters much wind.

Person B lives in the Colorado Mountains, rides a touring bike, weighs 225 lbs, averages 11.6 mph, always rides alone and never drafts, encounters high winds, rides in cold temperatures at altitudes over 12,000 feet at times.

So, what have you learned by saying they both have the same mileage?

Absolutely nothing worth comparing except that they are both active bikers.

That is what makes this whole discussion regarding trainer miles so ridiculous.

Miles are not miles are not miles!

Why compare miles in any way?

Nope. You will just have to guess! :D
Whatever. Then I don't care what you say about how many "miles" you've "done" because you haven't actually traveled anywhere. And using your high standards of honesty and accuracy, I can ethically include estimates of "miles" done on exercise bikes, as well as walking miles. I used a stairmaster once or twice, I guess I should add a few miles from those, too. After all, miles are miles, aren't they? I'm sure all other posters would find it perfectly honest to mix all of those together.

And if you mean it when you say, "I keep miles for MY purposes, not anyone elses," you won't report the miles here anyway, so there's no point to this discussion. Of course, that assumes you mean what you are saying.



Why would you care what I did on my bike/trainer? Riding a mountain bike versus a road bike gives a very differant mileage total so do you need to know what type of bike I ride also?
It's helpful if you give a little basic information of the type of riding you do. Why is that so contraversial?

And if you mean it when you say, "I keep miles for MY purposes, not anyone elses," you won't report the miles here anyway, so there's no point to this discussion. Of course, that assumes you mean what you are saying.

Not quite right.

I set some goals for myself this year - i.e., one of them being 4,000 miles for the year.

When I get there (hopefully, in a few weeks), I will report that I met MY goal of 4,000 miles (anyway I want to count those 4,000 miles) - because it is MY goal, not anyone else's.

I would encourage NO ONE to compare their miles to mine, as we have different weights, different riding styles, different bikes, different terrain, etc., etc., as already described numerous times in this never-ending thread.

My goal is mine, and that fact that I attained my goal is the salient issue, not whether or not the 4,000 miles is also achieved by or surpassed by someone else. I simply don't care about that!

Not quite right.

I set some goals for myself this year - i.e., one of them being 4,000 miles for the year.

When I get there (hopefully, in a few weeks), I will report that I met MY goal of 4,000 miles (anyway I want to count those 4,000 miles) - because it is MY goal, not anyone else's.

I would encourage NO ONE to compare their miles to mine, as we have different weights, different riding styles, different bikes, different terrain, etc., etc., as already described numerous times in this never-ending thread.

My goal is mine, and that fact that I attained my goal is the salient issue, not whether or not the 4,000 miles is also achieved by or surpassed by someone else. I simply don't care about that!

Since you say the number of "miles" in your goal is not important, why would you want to tell us that the goal you "met" was 4,000 "miles"? Just say you met your goal. By your own standard, that's all that's important.