Fifty Plus (50+) - Economy Changing Neighborhoods Near You? Yours?

On today's MSNBC web site there is an article about how real estate foreclosures have played havoc with neighborhood culture. The article is titles something like "I can't help it you paid $250,000 for your house and I paid a buck".

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.

Anyone here have any experience?

"inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others"

If I were an inner city poor person I would be feeling disrespected right about now.

Very few foreclosures, values staying pretty good, with a slight drop. No houses for sale for a buck, or I would have bought a whole lot of them. New people moving in seem to have an appropriate amount of respect - but I guess, as always, respect has to be earned.

"inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others"

If I were an inner city poor person I would be feeling disrespected right about now.

+1 On the socio-economic scale both of my sons would fall into the category of a poor person living in a city. Thier culture is in large part my culture. Heck, I'm feeling a bit disrespected right now.

On today's MSNBC web site there is an article about how real estate foreclosures have played havoc with neighborhood culture. The article is titles something like "I can't help it you paid $250,000 for your house and I paid a buck".

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.









Anyone here have any experience?


I'm seeing exactly what you're talking about here. There has been a lot more gang activity and crime in the last couple of years.

Mods please move this to P&R

Read the piece. i just paraphrased the point of view expressed in the article.

By the same token if anyone doesn't think there is an "inner city culture" that has values and behaviour that is different than that in the suburbs they are living on a different planet.

Not a political post at all. I'm in the process of deciding whether to and where to relocate. Making a good decision demands a clear understanding of the effects foreclosures have on neighborhoods I might consider.

I'm not interested in replies that somehow confuse economic reality and its' effect on my housing and bicycle pleasure with political bias and correctness.

Denver's reply is exactly what I'm after.

My neighbours disrespect me and complain that the neighbourhood went to $%^& when I moved in.

My neighbours disrespect me and complain that the neighbourhood went to $%^& when I moved in.

:lol:

Read the piece. i just paraphrased the point of view expressed in the article.

By the same token if anyone doesn't think there is an "inner city culture" that has values and behaviour that is different than that in the suburbs they are living on a different planet.


Not a political post at all. I'm in the process of deciding whether to and where to relocate. Making a good decision demands a clear understanding of the effects foreclosures have on neighborhoods I might consider.

I'm not interested in replies that somehow confuse economic reality and its' effect on my housing and bicycle pleasure with political bias and correctness.

Denver's reply is exactly what I'm after.

I'm not living on a different planet. Nor, is this an issue of political correctness. Rather, it's an issue of accuracy. Too broad a picture is painted with phrases like "inner city poor people". Within Philadelphia alone, there are many inner city neighborhoods with "poor" people that all have different and mixed cultural influences. To suggest, even unintentionally, that inner city poor people are disrespectful simply isn't accurate, or is likely highly biased. I suspect, although I have no real support for this, that you might be more accurate simply expressing that your neighborhood is changing and you're looking for a new one. Then a brief description of what you're looking for would be more helpful to my mind. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood and have some neighbors that seem very respectful of those around them. Then we also have two or three who don't seem to respect anything but their own immediate needs, and they are by no stretch of the imagination poor. I also know of suburb neighborhoods less than five minutes from me that have an entirely different culture (as defined by the written and unwritten rules of behavior; the norms of how one is to act if one is to fit in) than my neighborhood. If I accept language like "inner city poor culture" as a viable description, I'm getting dangerously close to demonizing people who I don't know and who may be very much like me. I believe I do understand your concern about wanting to live with people who don't offend your sensibilities of how things should be. And I'm not critical of your attempt to make a decision about where to live, in part, by considering the culture of the place. I just have a really hard time with lumping so many people together for the sake of expediency with language that has the potential to do more harm than good.

Since you asked about people's experience, I'll give you mine. I've never moved to a neighborhood without first spending some time in it. I've knocked on doors, introduced myself, stated that we were considering moving to the neighborhood and asked what it was like to live here. I've gone to local libraries and read a week of two of local edition newspapers. I've shopped in local grocery stores, just to find people to chat with. The reactions I've gotten have been very helpful in making a decision. In fact, we've taken trips across state lines on numerous occasions to explore a potential new city, town, or region. I've others in my family who have done the same things. For example, my brother-in-law just completed visits to State College, PA, Austin, TX, and Baltimore MD, looking at possible places for his new home. Finally, the place I currently live was picked partly because of access to over 45 miles of bike trails within 1/4 mile from my front door.

Maybe not a different planet but apparently a radically different perspective that colors what you read. At the outset; I'm not considering relocating because my neighborhood is deteriorating. In fact my neighborhood is doing just fine. I don't want to move into an area that may look good now but due to things I, as a stranger, can't see stands a good chance of deteriorating.

You lecture about how you do a lot of homework before you move. But, yet you denigrate me for doing the same. Make up your mind.

What I want is real life, not media drama, information about the effect, if any, of neighborhood change due to reduced house values. I'm not interested in sociological or political diatribes.

Maybe not a different planet but apparently a radically different perspective that colors what you read. At the outset; I'm not considering relocating because my neighborhood is deteriorating. In fact my neighborhood is doing just fine. I don't want to move into an area that may look good now but due to things I, as a stranger, can't see stands a good chance of deteriorating.

You lecture about how you do a lot of homework before you move. But, yet you denigrate me for doing the same. Make up your mind.

What I want is real life, not media drama, information about the effect, if any, of neighborhood change due to reduced house values. I'm not interested in sociological or political diatribes.

Denigrate: to attack the reputation of; to defame; to deny the importance of.

I don't see where my post denigrates at all. It surely was not my intent. If you read that into it, you read it wrong. I was trying to be supportive of the notion of finding a place to live where one is comfortable. At the same time I was expressing my own difficulty with some language that was used, and I don't believe I even attributed the language to you. I think you might do well to take a step back and consider your use of "sociological or political diatribes" and consider who denigrates who.

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.
This is the main reason I DON'T ride into Atlanta.

So far our neighborhood hasn't been affected by any of this. http://www.emofaces.com/en/emoticons/f/fingers-crossed-emoticon.gif

"inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others".


For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.
As to the question, I live in Nevada, which is worst in the nation for foreclosures, but most of the problem has been with speculator-owned homes around Las Vegas. Frankly I'm happy to see a lot of those people get stung.
Homes in my neighborhood near Reno were valued from around $300,000 to $2 million or so in 2007 (wide variation because they range from 1940s two-bedrooms to modern McMansions). I was near the low end of that, about $350K on zillow.com. Today on the same website, we're at $182,000. My neighbor's house, on the river, sold for $1.3 million in 2006, today zillow shows it at $632K.
Only one foreclosure in the area that I'm aware of, though, and the neighborhood hasn't changed. I'd really like to see some changes and more diversity, in fact. It's an all-white, upper middle class Republican neighborhood, full of professional people with a sprinkling of "old-time Nevadans" who also trend to an unconsidered kind of conservatism. The neighborhood parties are sort of tedious.

Really need to move this to P&R. It'll get some real legs over there.

Guess my mother was right. She used to often say "You don't always make money in real estate."

This is almost like the global warming argument. The weather is changing there must be something wrong. Hey neighborhoods are constantly changing. The current "crisis" has just made it more dramatic. If you want a neighborhood that never changes, I would suggest maybe a yurt in the middle of the boondocks.

Bank forecloses, leaves the houses empty and unmonitored. Meth labs move in. Yup, neighborhood changes.

For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.

I find it interesting that the minute someone calls attention to the downside of "diversity", someone else dismisses them as a "racist". Wouldn't it better serve everyone's interests if these issue could be discussed in light of facts without character attacks?


Only one foreclosure in the area that I'm aware of, though, and the neighborhood hasn't changed. I'd really like to see some changes and more diversity, in fact. It's an all-white, upper middle class Republican neighborhood, full of professional people with a sprinkling of "old-time Nevadans" who also trend to an unconsidered kind of conservatism. The neighborhood parties are sort of tedious.

You are indeed fortunate. Your neighborhood, by your own accounting, has seen a dramatic decrease in property values but little else.

The neighborhood I live in (I've been here 16 years) has seen a similar dive in real estate prices, and it has driven a significant change in it's character. There've been 77 foreclosures in a subdivision of 221 single family homes, there has been a marked increase in "diversity", and the socio-economic/cultural character of the subdivision has taken a decided downturn. On what do I base that statement? Police calls to the area have gone up by 18% over the past 5 years with no corresponding increased in population density. It's a matter of public record. In the past 2 years, 3 homes became drug labs, 2 of which (supposedly unoccupied) burned to the ground, damaging one nearby residence. The third one was the target of a police action that had the rest of us ordered to "shelter in place" for 10 hours. Also a matter of public record. There is obvious gang, drug, and prostitution activity going on in broad day light that was never present 6 years ago, hence the rise in police calls. Oh, and just last year, we had two out-and-out gun fights in the park across the street from my home. All well documented by local LE.

Now, it certainly cannot stated with any degree of certainty that there's a cause and effect relationship between the clear change in socio-economic profile in my neighborhood and these events, but I don't think their temporal proximity can be easily dismissed as coincidence. I think the possibility that they are related needs to be honestly explored so that if a relationship is found, a candid discussion of possible reasons and remedies can take place. Nor am I clear about how much of a factor the housing market slump is in this dynamic. After all, mine is just one of many neighborhoods that's been impacted. But the subject needs more than name-calling if I'm ever going to be able to ride in this neighborhood again without packing personal defense equipment.

-Bert

For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.


I have never seen a box marked "inner city poor people" under race on anything.

Nowhere did the OP say anything about race.

For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.

Racism? In the social housing I've seen the disrespect for others isn't isolated to any one particular race.

For the OP: Check yourself for racism. I think you have a raging case.

I think you need to do the same. He said "inner city poor people" you read that as "black/brown/purple people", which in and of itself points to the fact that you either 1) don't believe there to be white people in the inner city or 2) you don't believe that poor white people meet this description but poor people of a non-white background do. From my personal experience its generally the poor white people that show a lack of respect for others, then again I'm more familiar with "trailer trash" than "ghetto trash".



On Topic: In the area I live most of the foreclosures were actually in the lower income areas and not the suburbs. This has lead to a shortage of apartments and a lot of empty homes in "bad" neighborhoods that people don't want to move into. but for the most part the good neighborhoods are still good and the bad neighborhoods are either still bad or have improved slightly due to a decrease in the neighborhoods population.

On today's MSNBC web site there is an article about how real estate foreclosures have played havoc with neighborhood culture. The article is titles something like "I can't help it you paid $250,000 for your house and I paid a buck".

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.

Anyone here have any experience?

Is "respect" really what the complaint is?

I find it interesting that the minute someone calls attention to the downside of "diversity", someone else dismisses them as a "racist". Wouldn't it better serve everyone's interests if these issue could be discussed in light of facts without character attacks?



You are indeed fortunate. Your neighborhood, by your own accounting, has seen a dramatic decrease in property values but little else.

The neighborhood I live in (I've been here 16 years) has seen a similar dive in real estate prices, and it has driven a significant change in it's character. There've been 77 foreclosures in a subdivision of 221 single family homes, there has been a marked increase in "diversity", and the socio-economic/cultural character of the subdivision has taken a decided downturn. On what do I base that statement? Police calls to the area have gone up by 18% over the past 5 years with no corresponding increased in population density. It's a matter of public record. In the past 2 years, 3 homes became drug labs, 2 of which (supposedly unoccupied) burned to the ground, damaging one nearby residence. The third one was the target of a police action that had the rest of us ordered to "shelter in place" for 10 hours. Also a matter of public record. There is obvious gang, drug, and prostitution activity going on in broad day light that was never present 6 years ago, hence the rise in police calls. Oh, and just last year, we had two out-and-out gun fights in the park across the street from my home. All well documented by local LE.

Now, it certainly cannot stated with any degree of certainty that there's a cause and effect relationship between the clear change in socio-economic profile in my neighborhood and these events, but I don't think their temporal proximity can be easily dismissed as coincidence. I think the possibility that they are related needs to be honestly explored so that if a relationship is found, a candid discussion of possible reasons and remedies can take place. Nor am I clear about how much of a factor the housing market slump is in this dynamic. After all, mine is just one of many neighborhoods that's been impacted. But the subject needs more than name-calling if I'm ever going to be able to ride in this neighborhood again without packing personal defense equipment.

-Bert

wow, that sucks

^^ Yeah, but it's home, and with me nearing retirement and my wife already on SS disability, relocation really isn't an option. We do have a neighborhood association of sorts that does what it can to support people who are trying to keep the place decent and deal with those who aren't. Local LE has been cooperative and as helpful as possible despite suffering through budget driven staff reductions too.

It's just a bit annoying to have to drive a car to get to places where bicycling isn't a "contact sport" in order to have a nice ride. Not annoying enough to keep me off the bike, though...

My neighborhood has been transitioning for a while. We bought almost 14 years ago. At that time it was primarily white families raising their kids. Shortly after we moved in, we noticed it was transitioning to a more mixed racial makeup. Being pasty-white myself, I can't say I feel like I fit in as much as I did. But the changes aren't all bad. When we moved in, the park behind the elementary school was known for being where the local teens hung out to do drugs. Now the families have taken it over. You see individual families hanging out, riding the swings, etc., and also soccer practice, football practice, baseball practice, a lot of the time with very young kids. It's gotten perhaps a little seedier, but even with the financial crisis, home values have held or are perhaps even up a little. It's a neighborhood where you can get a lot of house for the money (which is why we moved here in '97), so it attracts a lot of families. It's not a new neighborhood though, so it's a lot of first-time buyers and immigrant families. In the years we've lived here, there have been several times we figured, "Well, there goes the neighborhood," due to repos, etc., but the instabilities always seem to settle down and the neighborhood rebounds. There have been a few incursions by gangs, but the local cops are pretty good about beating gangs back when they try moving into a neighborhood that is relatively gang-free.

Not necessarily worse, just... different.

I'd laugh if some responses weren't so sad. To understand that you really need to read the original MSNBC article. If it is still on line. Add to that the understanding that there is a difference between not having money and the inner city culture the article was describing. I think, as one poster pointed out, one could just as easily have used the "trailer trash" term as what was used. Interestingly, people who actually know about and understand the differences to not equate where a person lives with the terms describing the cultures.

Despite several folks reverting to Junior High School between posts here and other messages I've gotten some useful feedback. There is a big difference between evolutionary change in a neighborhood and the dramatic change that comes about by the events talked about in the article. Evolutionary change is the norm in modern society. Those changes usually bring about a neighborhood that is different in detail but still one most people enjoy. Change brought on by mass foreclosures seems to be much different.

Thanks to you who offered positive comments.

No need to apologize. Here's the short and sweet of the real story: it was not just government pressure but also lawsuits that forced lenders to make loans they knew were unsound. It's all on U tube . Government officials celebrating the settlement with the financial institutions and admitting that it will increase problem loans.

There are very real parallels with the affirmative action in lending and affirmative action in selecting military fighter pilots. You can have a very promising candidate but when you set them up to do something for which they are either not prepared or not qualified you get failure

I'd laugh if some responses weren't so sad. To understand that you really need to read the original MSNBC article. If it is still on line. Add to that the understanding that there is a difference between not having money and the inner city culture the article was describing. I think, as one poster pointed out, one could just as easily have used the "trailer trash" term as what was used. Interestingly, people who actually know about and understand the differences to not equate where a person lives with the terms describing the cultures.

Despite several folks reverting to Junior High School between posts here and other messages I've gotten some useful feedback. There is a big difference between evolutionary change in a neighborhood and the dramatic change that comes about by the events talked about in the article. Evolutionary change is the norm in modern society. Those changes usually bring about a neighborhood that is different in detail but still one most people enjoy. Change brought on by mass foreclosures seems to be much different.

Thanks to you who offered positive comments.

I think I read the article you are referring to.

As I recall, it specifically pointed out that a whole generation of middle-class African Americans in Detroit had moved out to the suburbs years ago and were now shocked by the "inner city" people who were moving into their neighborhoods. It wasn't saying they minded the fact that African Americans were moving into their neighborhood -- it stated that they didn't like the behaviors that the newcomers were bringing with them (I read the story kind of quickly, so if there was something offensive in the article I missed it).

The story went onto say that some of the "newcomers" to the suburbs were still of modest means, and that some of them were escaping drugs and crime problems in the inner city. It pointed out that in a neighborhood of single-family, owner-occupied homes, there are now houses occupied by 4 families of renters (rooming together to afford the rent), with lots of kids, no furniture in the house and no food in the refrigerator.

Like many such "trend" stories it had a bunch of anecdotes and was a little sparse on actual statistics. But I didn't see it as overtly racist -- it was just pointing out that in areas of single-family homes with lots of turnover due to foreclosures, things can change quickly.

...I've been interested in this kind of trend for a long time. I lived in Houston during the "oil bust" of the mid-1980s and the same thing happened there. Far-flung suburbs were hit with wave after wave of foreclosures. People who still had jobs suddenly found themselves living next to vacant homes...then the homes got occupied by renters...then the neighborhoods continued to change as the homeowners fled what they perceived to be declining neighborhoods.

How is it that these days, any simple general comment is immediately taken as "Racist"? I don't know about all the rest of you, but I believe Racist has been way overdone. I mean, it worked for a long time for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to make nice livings shaking down businesses. But it's worn out now. Time to find something new to claim victimhood over. Maybe we can start our own civil war over fat tires vs. skinny tires. Or carbon frames vs. steel frames vs. titanium frames???

PS: My free time is limited. I can't waste it reading drivel like MSNBC, National Enquirer, etc.

Politics Forum --> Thataway, hoss.

I like the diversity of the Fifty-Plus Forum. It tends to have some of the most active posting activity. I have never even visited the Politics forum, and probably wouldn't even if a thread I've posted on was moved there, other than to keep up with that post. I don't see why we can't discuss a variety of topics in 50+ as they relate to our experiences and age acquired wisdom and savvy.

If you see a thread title about the Economy and changing neighborhoods, and it doesn't interest you, why bother reading it?

If someone posts a bike frame, should it be moved to that Forum (or if they're a Clyde asking a question, does it belong in that Forum)? If someone posts a question in here about how to do a repair or a build, should it be moved to that forum?

Why can't this forum be all about topics that interest those of us that populate it? Other than illegal postings, our topics should reflect the diversity of our life experiences.

I have witnessed some problems in my middle-class suburban neighborhood with a couple of houses that have been turned into rentals. I don't know of too many empty houses in my neighborhood. We have had DEA drug busts in one area where a rental was being used as a cocaine warehouse, and that was during the boom years, way before the bust.

I have noticed more high-end cars in Wal-Mart parking lots as well as people in suits shopping in Wal-Mart, but that's just anecdotal.

Due to the high number of foreclosures, and bankowned homes, we are experiencing city and countywide budget problems. People leaving the area has reduced school enrollment. Budget cuts are reducing the hours that parks and libraries are open, as well as reducing teachers and starting to impact police and fire protection. I think these factors also impact the perceived quality of a neighborhood or city.

My suggestion is not only not to read the article on MSNBC but to read no articles at all. What good comes of it? Look at all the agitation and disturbance this thread has generated in the minds of its readers. You wake up in the morning, it's a fine day, you feel good about life, then your reach for the newspaper or get online. There goes your equanimity, if you had any to begin with. The best thing anyone can do for themselves is to cancel their subscriptions to the newspaper. What does anyone here propose to do about the movement of "inner city poor people culture" into the suburbs? You guessed it: nothing. For most of us, all we can do is vote, so vote, which take a minute or two every few years, and let everyone else seethe over all the "issues" the news media create in order to sell papers and programs.

.....our topics should reflect the diversity of our life experiences.

I'm not wearing any underwear...

I'm not wearing any underwear...
I never do when I'm wearing biking shorts.

And at other times, but right now I am not free to free ball.

Well, this doesn't have much to do with the economy nor with your neighborhoods. But it does have something to do with bikes and wearing shorts or not...

http://www.newfrontier.com/asheville/naked/

On today's MSNBC web site there is an article about how real estate foreclosures have played havoc with neighborhood culture. The article is titles something like "I can't help it you paid $250,000 for your house and I paid a buck".

The main point is that people inner city poor people culture which includes lack of respect for others now move to surburbia bringing their culture with them and so diminish the desirablity of the neighborhood.

Anyone here have any experience?

Dam??????

Talk about "better than thou"!!!!!!

http://www.popculturecomics.com/graphics/thumbs%20down%20col.gifhttp://www.popculturecomics.com/graphics/thumbs%20down%20col.gif

How is it that these days, any simple general comment is immediately taken as "Racist"? I don't know about all the rest of you, but I believe Racist has been way overdone. I mean, it worked for a long time for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to make nice livings shaking down businesses. But it's worn out now. Time to find something new to claim victimhood over. Maybe we can start our own civil war over fat tires vs. skinny tires. Or carbon frames vs. steel frames vs. titanium frames???

PS: My free time is limited. I can't waste it reading drivel like MSNBC, National Enquirer, etc.

I can give you answer from a minority's veiw...First of all this kind of stuff belongs in a political forum.. There are going to be fireworks, because in my humble old opinion the first post was fireworks. To talk about inner city people/poor people as a put down, one could go further back and detail, investigate how things came to be that way.
I recall when MINORITIES were LOCKED out the system. I see Jews getting reparations for pass abuses, don't see any other groups getting any.

Again, this belongs in a the political forum. I got hot just reading the first paragraph...:( And I live in a $400,000.00 townhouse

No need to apologize. Here's the short and sweet of the real story: it was not just government pressure but also lawsuits that forced lenders to make loans they knew were unsound. It's all on U tube . Government officials celebrating the settlement with the financial institutions and admitting that it will increase problem loans.

There are very real parallels with the affirmative action in lending and affirmative action in selecting military fighter pilots. You can have a very promising candidate but when you set them up to do something for which they are either not prepared or not qualified you get failure

Such as the TUSKEGEE AIRMEN!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen

People seem to FORGET that there were times when people were DENIED the opportunity to be qualified. Then after years, and years of shutting people out of areas to get qualified, then they open the flood gates, and the peeps that kept them out now say, look they are not qualified. Because the can't compete up against the people that had no restrictions on places to learned to get qualified..

One can't just tell the TAIL END of the story/process, tell the whole story of how the process started and reached the present stage..

Example again... Black baseball players in the early part of the century were dam near OVERLY QUALIFIED to play MLB, but where they allowed to PLAY????

Again, these topics belong in a political forum.

I have some really bad experience with some inner city culture. I and many people I know lost thousands of dollars, due to a handful of ne'er-do-wells who thought nothing of bamboozling everyone who believed in them. Then, when they were discovered, they had the cajones to appeal to the government to bail them out. They're a prime example of why this country is going downhill fast.

Oh, the inner city I'm talking about -- Wall Street, and it's &#^^(@^& bankers, not one of which has ever spent a day in jail for the crimes they perpetrated on our country.

I have some really bad experience with some inner city culture. I and many people I know lost thousands of dollars, due to a handful of ne'er-do-wells who thought nothing of bamboozling everyone who believed in them. Then, when they were discovered, they had the cajones to appeal to the government to bail them out. They're a prime example of why this country is going downhill fast.

Oh, the inner city I'm talking about -- Wall Street, and it's &#^^(@^& bankers, not one of which has ever spent a day in jail for the crimes they perpetrated on our country.

Oh, they are okay, because their habits blend in with the "better than thous".. :D

I was thinking of this thread yesterday when I was riding with a friend who happens to be a Jamaican national, guess actually a British National but that isn't pertinent, and we were discussing biking and our experiences as we travel around the country. We equally lamented the current disease of people focusing on our differences rather than on our similarities. This person is of a different gender, is about 50 years younger, has a lot less money, is national of a country that burned the capitol of my country about 200 years ago (a blink in time), and is new to my area.

But, we shared what is important. A desire to know and understand what is around us. A need to discover facts regardless of the demagoguery of those who consider thought to be an assault on their power. Speaking loudly merely substitutes volume for content. I've seen a lot of volume in this thread. That volume has been accompanied by the usual, but unwelcome, stirring by those whose entertainment is to troll on the internet.


The original article that prompted this thread used current accepted facts and terms about people's behaviour and economics to comment on what was happening in a particular area. I asked if that kind of thing was happening in your (meaning subscribers to this forum) areas. Acknowledging the facts and answering the question seems pretty simple to me.

If you feel strongly about any perceived social injustice this is not the thread or the forum to discuss it. Nor, if it is discussed is it likely to be a place to achieve anything significant. You stand a much better chance of doing something other than creating more noise if you actually make friends with people and learn what you share.

I was thinking of this thread yesterday when I was riding with a friend who happens to be a Jamaican national, guess actually a British National but that isn't pertinent, and we were discussing biking and our experiences as we travel around the country. We equally lamented the current disease of people focusing on our differences rather than on our similarities. This person is of a different gender, is about 50 years younger, has a lot less money, is national of a country that burned the capitol of my country about 200 years ago (a blink in time), and is new to my area.

But, we shared what is important. A desire to know and understand what is around us. A need to discover facts regardless of the demagoguery of those who consider thought to be an assault on their power. Speaking loudly merely substitutes volume for content. I've seen a lot of volume in this thread. That volume has been accompanied by the usual, but unwelcome, stirring by those whose entertainment is to troll on the internet.


The original article that prompted this thread used current accepted facts and terms about people's behaviour and economics to comment on what was happening in a particular area. I asked if that kind of thing was happening in your (meaning subscribers to this forum) areas. Acknowledging the facts and answering the question seems pretty simple to me.

If you feel strongly about any perceived social injustice this is not the thread or the forum to discuss it. Nor, if it is discussed is it likely to be a place to achieve anything significant. You stand a much better chance of doing something other than creating more noise if you actually make friends with people and learn what you share.


In my humble 70 year old opinion what you posted could have been discused elsehwere too. If you feel that you are better than somebody else, or people are sub standard to you, then you would do better to take that to the approiate forum, whereever that might be.

You posted this topic, and you got LIKE reponses. I wasn't the only one that said this didn't belong here, and somebody even said they could see how somebody can feel diisrespected by your comments.

Have a good day...:beer:

Good day to you as well.

I think this is a great forum for this thread!

We are all (I assume) adults, mature over the age of 50, and have at least one overlapping interest - bicycling. Other than bicycling, we each have a variety of backgrounds, perspectives, experiences, interests and OPINIONS. And yes, some of us are becoming old enough that we're getting old and set in our ways. If you're so old that you can't stand someone not agreeing with you 100% of the time, then maybe you should give up interacting and socializing with other people.

I say, Carry on!

What Antioch CA saw was before the fall.

Speculators got loans they shouldn't have. As absentee landlords they rented or went section 8. The neighborhoods changed dramatically. For the worse. Crime, graffiti and litter have increased. Shopping centers are now less safe.

Post bust has left empty shells of houses, more crime and a broken city budget.

I live in a rural area. It seems like my neighbors are leaving noticeably earlier in the morning - as if they had to take jobs further from home. I think another one of my neighbors only comes home on weekends now.
There are more houses for sale than there were 3 years ago.

What Antioch CA saw was before the fall.

Speculators got loans they shouldn't have. As absentee landlords they rented or went section 8. The neighborhoods changed dramatically. For the worse. Crime, graffiti and litter have increased. Shopping centers are now less safe.

Post bust has left empty shells of houses, more crime and a broken city budget.

Like I said, same story in my little piece of Pittsgurg just down Hwy 4, only a bit worse. It has more to do with what happens when people loose hope than it does with ethnic origins. Playing the "race card" just muddies the water and makes it harder to find solutions.


I see Jews getting reparations for pass abuses, don't see any other groups getting any.

BTW, I'm one of those Jews cehowardGS mentioned, and trust me, Mr. GS, I got no ^%$*!& reparations. What I did get is the permanent eradication of big pieces of the culture I came from and a lot of relatives that have funny little numbers tattooed on their wrists. If you're going to carry on about racism, I suggest you steer clear of what can easily be interpreted as racist statement. And a good day to you as well, sir. (He said from the den in his $150,000 [current valuation] home)

-Bert

Nothing more going on in America these days than some basic re-distribution of wealth. Simply take it from those who produce, and spread it around to all those who don't. Same for housing. Lower the working class standard of living so everyone's equal. Basic. Simple.

Now as for me, my game plan is to get out of the States and to Central America where people are still encouraged to earn, and to keep the fruits of their own labors.

Have a nice day.

Good day to you as well.

I think this is a great forum for this thread!

We are all (I assume) adults, mature over the age of 50, and have at least one overlapping interest - bicycling. Other than bicycling, we each have a variety of backgrounds, perspectives, experiences, interests and OPINIONS. And yes, some of us are becoming old enough that we're getting old and set in our ways. If you're so old that you can't stand someone not agreeing with you 100% of the time, then maybe you should give up interacting and socializing with other people.

I say, Carry on!

I all due respect, it was not up to me to do any agreeing, I didn't start this thread. I didn't agree with the topic or the content. I think you need to direct what I have in bold to the OP of this thread.

In addition, if you are so old that you cannot understand what you are reading, then maybe it is you that need to also take some reading comprehenison lessons..

By all means, carry on...:beer:

Like I said, same story in my little piece of Pittsgurg just down Hwy 4, only a bit worse. It has more to do with what happens when people loose hope than it does with ethnic origins. Playing the "race card" just muddies the water and makes it harder to find solutions.



BTW, I'm one of those Jews cehowardGS mentioned, and trust me, Mr. GS, I got no ^%$*!& reparations. What I did get is the permanent eradication of big pieces of the culture I came from and a lot of relatives that have funny little numbers tattooed on their wrists. If you're going to carry on about racism, I suggest you steer clear of what can easily be interpreted as racist statement. And a good day to you as well, sir. (He said from the den in his $150,000 [current valuation] home)

-Bert

Oh, I made a racist statement??? I just stated the Jews got reperations! that is a FACT. I didn't understand the rest of the gibberish!!

Good day to you also...:beer: