Advocacy & Safety - Four ninjas in two nights

Monday: Jogger in dark gray sweats and hoodie, black shoes. All I saw was a face going by my fender. I had to circle back to see what it was, and even looking for him, he was hard to see running down the shoulder of a 55MPH road.
Later, almost left-crossed a ninja salmon on a MTB. No rear light or reflector, no wheel reflectors, no headlight, all black clothes, just happened to spot flicker of what might have been a pedal reflector as I turned. He was riding on the shoulder of a 45MPH road.

Tuesday: Female jogger. Black shirt and shorts. Running almost in the middle of a residential street. Fortunately, her pasty white arms and legs stood out pretty well. If she gets a tan this summer, I'm betting on her getting squashed soon after.
Coming home, I passed another MTB with only the wheel reflectors, and the rider was wearing dark gray at night on one of the main 30MPH streets through town.

I really want to see this town get more bike friendly, but two ninjacycles in two nights, and no legal nighttime riders either night means an uphill battle against the mentality that they perpetuate among drivers.

Sounds like all four of them, were trying to ace a class called '100 Ways To Become Roadkill With A Passion'.

They should trade places with the squirrels. They might live longer, but not by much.

Maybe instead of free helmet giveaways, municipalities should have free light giveaways.

Or instead of "cyclist safety blitzes" which become "cyclist stop sign ticketing blitzes" they should have "cyclist light installation workshop blitzes".

Don't take it personally, I'm not slamming you, but when you mentioned wanting your town to be more bike-friendly, I looked closer, and saw you were from Texas.

It's not for no reason that the running joke for years has been, "Texas toilet paper -- it don't take sh** offa NOBODY!" In my experience, folks from TX embody the over-the-top, take-no-sh** attitude. So people like those you encountered are gonna be indicative of a larger cross-section than you might think. You won't and pretty much CAN'T get through that wall........

When people survive risky behavior, they decide for themselves that it's OK, and generally won't change until something BAD happens, more than once.

That's a societal problem as a whole, it's just "bigger in Texas", like everything else (lol).

In my dealings with ninjas, for me, the only thing I found effective was to keep improving my forward lighting system until ninjas stopped being a serious problem at night.

It's not for no reason that the running joke for years has been, "Texas toilet paper -- it don't take sh** offa NOBODY!" In my experience, folks from TX embody the over-the-top, take-no-sh** attitude. So people like those you encountered are gonna be indicative of a larger cross-section than you might think. You won't and pretty much CAN'T get through that wall........

Yup, in my job, a few times I've had to deal with Texas government. What I learned is that if you want Texas to do something, you tell them that every other person in all 49 other states does exactly the opposite. I was seriously in a conference call where they had over 100 people from every company in our industry tell them that what they were planning to do was stupid, wasteful and unnecessary, and that nobody did it that way anymore, and everyone that USED to do it that way has moved away from it because it's so inefficient. So of course the next day they sent around an email saying pretty much that they didn't care, and they were doing it that way anyway.

In my dealings with ninjas, for me, the only thing I found effective was to keep improving my forward lighting system until ninjas stopped being a serious problem at night.
+1
It has the added benefit of making us less hypocritical when we blame motorists for overdriving their headlights and killing pedestrians and cyclists.

What is the OP's point?

Somehow smug references to "ninjas" who are cycling on the shoulder or pedestrians who have zero requirement to light up at night really doesnt make me sing Kumbaya. Jabbering about motorists over driving their headlights hardly applies to shoulder or residential street "ninjas".

Yes, those individuals would be safer if they lit up like the OP (when he is not motoring about complaining about cyclists who are not his kind of cyclist. So what? Just keep driving on the road with your eyes open and you should not be having any issues with them.

It is the other true ninjas the OP did not see that he needs to be worried about.

I say we all ride around with paintball guns with reflective paint in them (does such a thing exist?) and start a new game. See how many ninjas we can tag in a night.

Tuesday: Female jogger. Black shirt and shorts. Running almost in the middle of a residential street. Fortunately, her pasty white arms and legs stood out pretty well. If she gets a tan this summer, I'm betting on her getting squashed soon after.The tanning salon federal tax saved her life.

Jabbering about motorists over driving their headlights hardly applies to shoulder or residential street "ninjas".Even at intersections?

I really want to see this town get more bike friendly, but two ninjacycles in two nights, and no legal nighttime riders either night means an uphill battle against the mentality that they perpetuate among drivers.

Before you try to change the opinions other drivers have of cyclists, you should consider whether it's the "bike advocates" people on two wheels should be afraid of:


I say we all ride around with paintball guns with reflective paint in them (does such a thing exist?) and start a new game. See how many ninjas we can tag in a night.

Even at intersections?

What kind of intersections are you thinking about where "responsible motorists" like our eagle eyed OP would be driving so fast as to over drive the range of their headlights and not see bicyclists with reflectors?

What kind of intersections are you thinking about where "responsible motorists" like our eagle eyed OP would be driving so fast as to over drive the range of their headlights and not see bicyclists with reflectors?

How about any intersection where the ninja comes from a perpendicular direction to the motorist. After all the headlights are focused parallel to the car and don't provide much side coverage.

Just out of curiousity, do you also feel that the cyclist is always at fault when they collide with those pesky, ipod using pedestrians? After all if the cyclists was traveling slow enough, they wouldn't collide now would they?

How about any intersection where the ninja comes from a perpendicular direction to the motorist. After all the headlights are focused parallel to the car and don't provide much side coverage.

Just out of curiousity, do you also feel that the cyclist is always at fault when they collide with those pesky, ipod using pedestrians? After all if the cyclists was traveling slow enough, they wouldn't collide now would they?

I'll bite. If an iPodified pedestrian steps into the roadway where there is a legal crosswalk, whether painted or not, and the cyclist has been given room to stop, of course the cyclist is at fault in a collision. However, iPod or not, my experience with pedestrians is more along the lines of folks crossing at an angle mid-block without looking (because they think they can hear any car) and without giving me any warning that they are going to behave so irrationally. In those cases, the pedestrian is at fault. Fortunately, I have thus far always been able to predict their behavior and have avoided contact.

I guess the short answer is NO.

Only 4? I had to take on eight ninjas the other night. And one of them was pretty good with a blow dart too!


Lucky for me, I only roll with muy thai experts - so we had the upper hand.


The trick with ninjas is to use lots of extra smokebombs. They get confused.

Coming home, I passed another MTB with only the wheel reflectors, and the rider was wearing dark gray at night on one of the main 30MPH streets through town.

Pretty sure it was this guy I saw again this morning, at 1AM salmoning down the shoulder of a four-lane US highway. I thought about sticking around to see what he was going to do in another 100yds when the shoulder ran out, but I was hungry.

Somehow smug references to "ninjas" who are cycling on the shoulder or pedestrians who have zero requirement to light up at night really doesnt make me sing Kumbaya.

The laws of Texas and the US may be silent about camouflaging yourself and playing in traffic, but the laws of nature aren't.


Jabbering about motorists over driving their headlights hardly applies to shoulder or residential street "ninjas".

Overdriving the headlights hardly applies when the obstruction is putting extra effort into not being seen.

What kind of intersections are you thinking about where "responsible motorists" like our eagle eyed OP would be driving so fast as to over drive the range of their headlights and not see bicyclists with reflectors?

That does rather assume the ninja cyclists have reflectors at all. I've seen a few around my way that don't.

The laws of Texas and the US may be silent about camouflaging yourself and playing in traffic, but the laws of nature aren't.



Overdriving the headlights hardly applies when the obstruction is putting extra effort into not being seen.

Must be wonderful to feel so superior to the low life bicyclists you notice and disparage on this Forum as you drive about your hometown.

How about any intersection where the ninja comes from a perpendicular direction to the motorist. After all the headlights are focused parallel to the car and don't provide much side coverage.

Just out of curiousity, do you also feel that the cyclist is always at fault when they collide with those pesky, ipod using pedestrians? After all if the cyclists was traveling slow enough, they wouldn't collide now would they?

I am unaware of any significant issue with cyclists colliding with pedestrians ("pesky" or not) at intersections? Are you?

That does rather assume the ninja cyclists have reflectors at all. I've seen a few around my way that don't.

You saw them, eh? So whatz da problem?

You saw them, eh? So whatz da problem?

I saw them from my position as a pedestrian, moving at pedestrian speed. Whether I'd have seen them from behind the wheel moving at driving speed, even in town, is questionable.

I saw them from my position as a pedestrian, moving at pedestrian speed. Whether I'd have seen them from behind the wheel moving at driving speed, even in town, is questionable.

Answer your own question. Have you ever collided with one yet? Anybody you know ever collide with one yet? Somehow someway most cyclists do seem to get around unscathed at night despite not meeting the lighting standard set up by the self appointed BF lighting patrol.

If you are able to come up with an instance or two, how representative are such collisions of the accidents occuring in your area?

I am not recommending that cyclists go without lights, only that smug BF safety overlords (especially those who make their observations while motoring about town) lighten up on their harping on and disparaging of real world cyclists who don't meet smugsters personal "standards."

I am unaware of any significant issue with cyclists colliding with pedestrians ("pesky" or not) at intersections? Are you?

Why limit it to intersections, though of course the problem is there as well. For a cite, take a look at the portland report bek just posted. There is commentary in there about cyclists colliding with pedestrians at intersections...

However, I was thinking of MUPS. There have been cases where a cyclist caused the death of a pedestrian on those MUPS... Of course following your logic it must always have been the cyclists fault for riding faster than the conditions warranted...

Answer your own question. Have you ever collided with one yet? Anybody you know ever collide with one yet? Somehow someway most cyclists do seem to get around unscathed at night despite not meeting the lighting standard set up by the self appointed BF lighting patrol.

I see... do excuse me if I'd like other people to comply with the law of the land. I wasn't aware that observing people breaking the law qualified me for membership into any "self appointed" stuff.

I drive so little that colliding with anything is extremely unlikely. I have had close shaves with ninja cyclists, both on two wheels and four.


If you are able to come up with an instance or two, how representative are such collisions of the accidents occuring in your area?

No idea. To be honest as long as accidents don't involve myself or those I care about, I don't really care.


I am not recommending that cyclists go without lights, only that smug BF safety overlords (especially those who make their observations while motoring about town) lighten up on their harping on and disparaging of real world cyclists who don't meet smugsters personal "standards."

Sorry if my "personal standards" are too close to the law of the land for your liking. While we're following your whim that we should shut up, shall we also ignore drunk drivers? It would be terrible if we were all busy harping on disparaging the real world motorists who didn't meet smug BF members personal "standards", right?

Pretty sure it was this guy I saw again this morning, at 1AM salmoning down the shoulder of a four-lane US highway. I thought about sticking around to see what he was going to do in another 100yds when the shoulder ran out, but I was hungry.

A couple of months back when I was coming home from the local Sprint store I encountered a salmon ninja. His "excuse" for not having lights was that his landlord had removed them. I thought to myself that IF the cops stopped him they wouldn't care that his landlord had removed his lights. Only that he was riding without them.

Than about a 100yrds or so down the road a car passed me that was in the same lane as Mr. ninja salmon cyclist. I expected to hear the "sing-song" sound of breaks locking up, but fortunately it didn't happen.

This thread is shenanigans.

Like school yard gossip, only it's adults. I hope you're trolling, otherwise...Ugh.

Give them a light if you really care.