Living Car Free - Where in the USA would I have to move to, to avoid harsh Winters and humid Summers?

I know this topic, in various incarnations, has been discussed over and over but I have a question from slightly different angle. Also, out of all the forums this seems to be the most appropriate. I've been asking around but most people don't understand our needs. Everybody wants to live close to shopping malls, movie theaters, stadiums, have a house, two cars and 50" TV, etc. Also, we have no kids, so we're not concerned with schools. Solitude and peace and quiet are more important to us than anything else.

My wife and I are willing to make sacrifices in terms of work and income and our standard of living. We can live car-free or not. We don't need to be close to any cultural centers, bars, theaters, etc. As I mentioned in few other threads, we've been working on simplifying our lives. Our needs are pretty basic by now. But obviously bike-friendly and proximity to nice outdoors (touring, camping, hiking) would be a plus.

So here is the question:

Where in the USA would I have to move to (not a particular city, but a general area), to avoid long, harsh Winters and extremely humid Summers and get more sunny days? And not to live in a crowded large city. Basically, I'd like to move somewhere where temperatures in Winter don't drop below freezing for more than a few weeks and where there is little snow and the humidity in Summer isn't >80% most of the time.

If I was to chose, however, I'd chose hot and humid Summers over harsh, frigid, snowy Winters.

I'm tired of the NYC crowds, can't stand the mass transit so I have been commuting by bike for years, but Winters are becoming a problem. I tried to commute through the Winter in NYC for the second year, but my tolerance for cold weather is lower every year, it seems. I opted not to ride several times last month when temperatures dropped from 40s to 20s overnight. I just couldn't handle it.

I also suffer from depression and every Winter is a battle to remain sane. Then we get a couple of months of gloom and rain until some time in May. I need to move somewhere where there is more sunlight. In NYC the period between November and April is usually very, very lousy. That's like half a year of sucky weather with very few pleasant days scattered throughout.

Florida is out of question: too humid, too flat and boring and job market seems to suck.

I've been thinking about Arizona, parts of New Mexico. Since I've lived in NYC for 20 years, since I came to USA, such a move would be major undertaking from psychological and logistical perspectives. I was thinking about moving to Louisville, KY for some time, as an intermediate location before going further.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Interesting question. Off the bat, I don't think Louisville would work well for you. I lived there for about two years, and liked it a lot. I'd still be there were it not for a forced job relocation. You'd have more snow/cold weather than you want during the winter, and then you'd see a summer that's fairly humid, although nothing remotely like Florida.

I was strongly tempted to suggest the Monterey Bay area for you, as it's my personal favorite out of all the many locations I've lived in over the years. You'd have a fair amount of morning fog to deal with, but the overall climate is mild, and the biking is great. I'd be there now, if the sheer cost of living there didn't price me out of the market.

California. If you don't mind being away from the big cities, you can find somewhere affordable.

I was considering Louisville as an intermediate location just to test our abilities to re-adjust. It's closer to NYC in case we need to run back screaming, the weather is a bit milder and I have a friend there who can help with getting familiar with the place.

I've been working full time for the same institution for most of the time I've lived in NYC. I've grown sedentary, inflexible. I don't want to work 9:5, Mon-Fri anymore either. I want to see if I can function on variable income, working part time, doing freelance and changing jobs frequently if needed. It'll be a major paradigm shift for me.

California. If you don't mind being away from the big cities, you can find somewhere affordable.

I was under the impression that CA is mostly expensive, regardless of the location.

In that case, go for it! I had a very pleasant surprise in store when I moved to N. Kentucky, first just across the river from Cincinnati, and later down the road a bit to Louisville. I found the people there amazingly friendly and welcoming, and it struck me as having the kind of atmosphere in general that you seem to be looking for.

I didn't find biking in Louisville itself all that enjoyable, but once out of town a few miles, there's some wonderful gently rolling back roads to eat up the miles. Bluegrass country is a treat.

Hawai'i. Only half-joking. The island of Kauai in particular is pretty rural; barely a small city's worth of people scattered across the whole island. Outdoor activities on Kauai are phenomenal. Weather is almost universally mild and pleasant: Lowest average high is 75 degrees F; Highest average high is 85. Average humidity year-round is about 50%. Year-round growing season, if you're into gardening. The food is excellent. Public transit in the form of bus service is supposed to be fairly good, especially for such a rural area.

Down sides: Expensive; Perhaps less expensive than some of the other islands due to the rural nature, but still expensive. Remote; you have to take a plane or a boat to get off the island, and there is no proper city on the island. The largest town is about 5000 people. Bicycle infrastructure, from what I've read, is so-so but improving; The roads tend to be short on extra space and a bit fast, but the state and locality are building trails that run in more-or-less the same areas. Did I mention expensive?

I was under the impression that CA is mostly expensive, regardless of the location.

All things are relative, of course, and California in general is certainly a more expensive place to live than, say, my old midwest 'rust belt' hometown. That said, with the housing market correction/crash over the past few years, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. Unless you've got plenty of cash, some areas, e.g. San Francisco, are still really expensive.

Colorado Springs its very dry only a hand full of snow days a year and only snows about 1'' or 2'' at a time it stays around 40 in the winter and about 75 in the summer, 300 days of sun per year. Youre at the foot of the rocky mountains and its spectacular.

How about the Front Range cities of Colorado?

On another forum in a commuting thread, All winter long CO people are always lording over the rest of us that when it snows, it lasts a day then it's 50 or 60 again. I've been there in the summer and its dry like the southwest, but cooler and more tolerable. Coming from an East Coast muggy summer, the 90°F days were actually quite refreshing--that "dry heat" and all.

You're in IT, right? Lots of IT in the area too.

Dang! mburgess86 beat me while I composing mine.

Southern Arizona.. Not humid in the summer, but it's easily tops 100 degrees on a regular basis.. Ride early, I'm usually out by 5am.. Want to be done before 9am and it starts getting over 100..

Winter is great, we did have one day this year that went down to 17 and a wind chill of 1, but that is way out of the norm.

I woke up to snow last Sunday, it was gone by 10am, and it was 80 degrees on Tuesday. You can not beat the winters, but the summers take some getting used too. I know "It's a dry heat.", like an oven.. Phoenix is about 10 degrees hotter on any given day.

The riding is spectacular!

California. If you don't mind being away from the big cities, you can find somewhere affordable.

Yep.

Fort Worth still has some severe weather in the winter, and is hotter than hell in the summer, but not as humid as, say, Houston. Bike commuting year-round is do-able, minus a few severe weather days when the city just kind of doesn't bother anyway.

If I was to chose, however, I'd chose hot and humid Summers over harsh, frigid, snowy Winters.


In that case, definitely Fort Worth, maybe Dallas. Dallas has more of a big city feel. Fort Worth is growing fast but there is still affordable housing near the city core which would be essential for a bike commuter. I know people that live in and near downtown Fort Worth and work in Dallas. Fort Worth doesn't have much of a rail system, but there is a commuter link to Dallas. Fort Worth itself has a lot of easy rides to large portions of the city if you live near downtown, and the neighborhoods are "permeable" in that you can go long distances without having to ride on the busy arterials- just cut through the neighborhoods. Also, the Trinity River has trails that lead out in various directions which are used by commuters. Here's a sampling (http://rattrappress.blogspot.com/2011/03/sunday-afternoon-ride-03-06-11.html) of riding in and around dowtown Fort Worth. There is also a very welcoming bike community here in Ft Worth- easy to make friends.

Not sure what kind of work you do, but the local economy is doing okay.

Hawai'i. Only half-joking. The island of Kauai in particular is pretty rural; barely a small city's worth of people scattered across the whole island. Outdoor activities on Kauai are phenomenal.

Yup, expensive and I want to go on long tours eventually so living on the mainland is preferred.


All things are relative, of course, and California in general is certainly a more expensive place to live than, say, my old midwest 'rust belt' hometown. That said, with the housing market correction/crash over the past few years, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be. Unless you've got plenty of cash, some areas, e.g. San Francisco, are still really expensive.

I've never looked. I'll need to browse CA Craigslist and ask around. I know some people who came here from CA.


Colorado Springs its very dry only a hand full of snow days a year and only snows about 1'' or 2'' at a time it stays around 40 in the winter and about 75 in the summer, 300 days of sun per year. Youre at the foot of the rocky mountains and its spectacular.

That definitely looks interesting. I have also been looking in that direction, by Colorado has such varying climate it seems. Although there is a guy working with us who came from Denver and he says it'd be perfect for me. The Winters are apparently brief and mild. Summers are dry, biking is great, plenty of tech companies to find a job.


How about the Front Range cities of Colorado?

On another forum in a commuting thread, All winter long CO people are always lording over the rest of us that when it snows, it lasts a day then it's 50 or 60 again. I've been there in the summer and its dry like the southwest, but cooler and more tolerable. Coming from an East Coast muggy summer, the 90°F days were actually quite refreshing--that "dry heat" and all.

You're in IT, right? Lots of IT in the area too.

Dang! mburgess86 beat me while I composing mine.

Yeah, that's what I learned from my coworker.

In that case, definitely Fort Worth, maybe Dallas. Dallas has more of a big city feel. Fort Worth is growing fast but there is still affordable housing near the city core which would be essential for a bike commuter. I know people that live in and near downtown Fort Worth and work in Dallas. Fort Worth doesn't have much of a rail system, but there is a commuter link to Dallas. Fort Worth itself has a lot of easy rides to large portions of the city if you live near downtown, and the neighborhoods are "permeable" in that you can go long distances without having to ride on the busy arterials- just cut through the neighborhoods. Also, the Trinity River has trails that lead out in various directions which are used by commuters. Here's a sampling (http://rattrappress.blogspot.com/2011/03/sunday-afternoon-ride-03-06-11.html) of riding in and around dowtown Fort Worth. There is also a very welcoming bike community here in Ft Worth- easy to make friends.

Not sure what kind of work you do, but the local economy is doing okay.

Texas... scares me :) Too many stories about cyclists being abused seem to come from Texas. Although I heard good things about Fort Worth too.

I love the Front Range cities, Boulder, Estes Park, Ft, Collins, Denver, and Colorado Springs/Manitou, but if it's affordable for you I'd still go for California. I've heard good things about Sacramento. I love San Francisco area (north or south of it) I would try to avoid HelLA, If I wanted south of LA, I'd go closer to San Diego. Texas hill country might not be too bad, my personal preference would be to be near Austin as it has a great live music scene. I've had family move to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area from Florida and they love it, but they did get some snow this year.

I've been reading a blog from a guy that lives in a van RV. He's been reporting about the weather in the cities in which he stops. It seems that there are many small towns just twenty to fifty miles east of Los Angeles that have the same great weather but have beautiful surroundings without the millions of people.

Look at the temperatures in Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. If you live in the mountainous regions you will be very cold in the winter. Find a city at a lower elevation and it won't be so cold in the winter. Summers will still be hot.

Just this year I've decided to return to Los Angeles by next Halloween. I've had enough of the Montana winters. Unless I find a great girlfriend or somebody gives me a $100K job I'm leaving at the end of September. I'm trying to decide just how I want to live. Do I buy a van and convert it to an RV as my home or do I build a Tumbleweed house and try to find a place to put it. The intermediate plan will probably be to get an apartment in the Hollywood area and see how it goes. That would be the cheapest way to do it in the short term.

I totally understand being tired of winter cycling. This morning was fourteen degrees with a light snow. If I owned a car I'd be much less frustrated with my situation. The winters would be tolerable because I'd be so much more comfortable in a car. I'd still walk to the post office in the winters but I'd drive to the grocery store several miles away. Now that fuel prices are again on their way up I still don't want to own a car. I think I'd like to remain car free if I can, just in a much warmer climate. My miniature dachshund probably feels the same way. Tiny short haired dogs don't do well in the cold.

I've been reading a blog from a guy that lives in a van RV...
Hmm, people who do the RV thing would have the option of following good weather as the seasons change. Is it possible to live in an RV and be somewhat nomadic if you still need employment income?

Hmm, people who do the RV thing would have the option of following good weather as the seasons change. Is it possible to live in an RV and be somewhat nomadic if you still need employment income?

The guy in the blog is a musician. Most of his income comes from arranging music. He gets files via e-mail, works on them, then returns them via e-mail.

Some jobs are portable. I'm trying to create a portable business by doing marketing for other businesses. The nature of it doesn't require being in one location as long as the internet exists. I have yet to earn a penny because I'm still in the start up phase. I'm optimistic that I'll have some clients and enough regular income by September to make my move.

Some RV residents work for national park services doing seasonal work. Others work at resorts during different seasons. They stay for a few months to earn money and travel the remainder of the time.

Texas... scares me :) Too many stories about cyclists being abused seem to come from Texas. Although I heard good things about Fort Worth too.

I'm from New York originally (west end of the state) and I do okay down here. There are frustrations, but also some very cool things. Fort Worth is a rapidly up-and-coming bicycle town. It's a city of 750k, but like I said, you can still get a reasonable place within a mile or two of downtown. We want to move from the suburban fringe into the near southside; lots of historic older homes in decent shape for $130-200k.

No mountains here, but there are a few significant ridges that run across town providing some 15% grades here and there, and maybe one or two that are steeper than that.

I'll second the colorado springs Idea, I've never lived there but I have a friend that does and he loves it.

Unfortunately, my skills (IT support/tech/networking) require physical location, they're not portable. I can also design and build/maintain websites around various CMS but there is way too much competition there, I'll never make it, I make less than $100 a month from fixing sites for other people and from advertising/donations on my own few sites. I tried stock photography but that failed due to lack of free time mainly (chicken and egg problem). So unless a miracle happens and some of my sites start generating income I will need at least a part-time job. Two of my sites (links in the sig) show some promise but it may take years before they generate any significant income. Plus, again: I'd need some free time to write more articles and my current job and way of living really burns out my creativity.

A lot of my issues revolve around lack of significant free time due to a 9-5 job and mental fatigue/burnout related to the job. I have no time and no energy to develop my client network, to find new freelancing jobs. I used to do gigs where I'd make $1,000 over one weekend. I have turned down many freelancing offers due to lack of time. That's why I would really like to find a part-time job so I can go in different directions and try different things. It doesn't even have to be IT. I'd love to work with photography or bikes. So like I said, it's a paradigm shift of significant proportions for me. I'm working hard on lowering my "wants" and "needs" and decluttering my life, so I can survive on lower income, and I made some progress since last Summer.

Some of you might remember me posting in other threads here and in Touring that I'm not happy with the way my life turned out. That I want more time for myself, even if that means less money. I'm through with the American Dream, I just want the basics and more time, less work.

So I've been brainstorming the strategy. I think I need to find an area I want to move to first, hence this thread. Then go visit for a few weeks. Then, assuming I can save up enough money to survive for 6 months or so, just move there, take some time off to rest and revitalize, get to know the area meantime, and then find some work. I'm confident that I can find work once I settle down.

Going the other way around: finding a job first and THEN moving seems safer (I'd secure a job) but it'd be more hectic: I'd have to fly in for interviews, then move quickly. I might end up somewhere I don't like and get stuck with another 9-5 job. I like the idea of moving first, relaxing a bit and then scouting the area for a job while I'm already there. And I like the idea of taking some time off between jobs.

Try truck driving. Some people love it and others hate it. You would get to travel all over the country and locate a place you would like to live. Depending on the company you work for you could get a regular route or just drive in town. Over the road drivers stay out twenty-one days and return for four. Since there is such a high turnover rate for drivers there are always job openings for drivers with clean records.

It isn't a regular 9 to 5 type of job. Every day you're in a different place. This is something I've considered. I have a class B license that allows me to drive a straight truck with air brakes. My part time job now is bus driver for a school system. They trained me and let me loose. It seems that there is also a high turnover rate with school bus drivers. So if you wanted a part time job doing that it would be easy to find one. I earn enough to pay for my necessities and no more. It does give me the middle of the day off each day.

Look at the temperatures in Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. If you live in the mountainous regions you will be very cold in the winter. Find a city at a lower elevation and it won't be so cold in the winter. Summers will still be hot.

Yeah, that's why it's hard to find a place if you don't know the area. One state like New Mexico or Colorado can have very varying climate depending on the elevation.



I totally understand being tired of winter cycling. This morning was fourteen degrees with a light snow. If I owned a car I'd be much less frustrated with my situation. The winters would be tolerable because I'd be so much more comfortable in a car. I'd still walk to the post office in the winters but I'd drive to the grocery store several miles away. Now that fuel prices are again on their way up I still don't want to own a car. I think I'd like to remain car free if I can, just in a much warmer climate. My miniature dachshund probably feels the same way. Tiny short haired dogs don't do well in the cold.

We do have a car, but we wouldn't drive to work. Driving to work in Manhattan is for the insane. It's the epitome of frustration, it's usually the slowest mode of transportation too due to the traffic and parking can be $400 a month. So driving in Winter isn't an option for me. The only option is mass transit and I hate it due to the crowds.

Yeah, I see people walking dachshunds often. These guys definitely are not build for snowy Winters.


Try truck driving. Some people love it and others hate it. You would get to travel all over the country and locate a place you would like to live. Depending on the company you work for you could get a regular route or just drive in town. Over the road drivers stay out twenty-one days and return for four. Since there is such a high turnover rate for drivers there are always job openings for drivers with clean records.

It isn't a regular 9 to 5 type of job. Every day you're in a different place. This is something I've considered. I have a class B license that allows me to drive a straight truck with air brakes. My part time job now is bus driver for a school system. They trained me and let me loose. It seems that there is also a high turnover rate with school bus drivers. So if you wanted a part time job doing that it would be easy to find one. I earn enough to pay for my necessities and no more. It does give me the middle of the day off each day.

Long distance trucking looks fun at first, but many people say it's tiring. Driving a truck in the city is not something for me. Plus, it'd take me some time to learn. I drove a small truck only twice when moving and it was a nightmare :D It'd be good to use my existing skills somehow.

So far Colorado Springs and Denver look the best. My coworker who moved from Denver still has some contacts there, so he might be able to help with the job and he's willing to answer my countless questions.

I would throw in a vote for Denver. I haven't lived there, but my brother does and I always like it when I visit out there, regardless of the season.

Aaron :)

So far Colorado Springs and Denver look the best. My coworker who moved from Denver still has some contacts there, so he might be able to help with the job and he's willing to answer my countless questions.

The Colorado front range (Boulder, Colorado Springs, Denver, Fort Collins, and you _really_ can't lump them together apart from similar climate) is nice but there are some cold (sub-zero to 20 degrees but it'll be 40-50 again soon) but sunny and dry days in the winter and hot (90-100 and it might stay 90+) but dry days in the summer.

California weather is better. In the San Francisco bay area the right distance to the ocean gets you 50+ degree daytime temperatures most of the winter, late evening temperatures of 40+, and summer days that are rarely over 80. I don't recall any sub-freezing nights this year.

Cost of living varies radically on where and what you can accept for housing (two people and a cat don't "need" more than one bedroom although they could buy a victorian mansion in depressed areas of the country for the same money).

Hmm, people who do the RV thing would have the option of following good weather as the seasons change. Is it possible to live in an RV and be somewhat nomadic if you still need employment income?

You're talking California there... people lose homes jobs and end up homeless. and roam all over in RVs or just drop out of society and live in an RV. 33 - 34 million people think California is great. I don't know how many are RVers. Rows of RVs are registered to the homeless shelter here, then parked in the "sticks". Quite unnerving when I ride by.

The Colorado front range (Boulder, Colorado Springs, Denver, Fort Collins, and you _really_ can't lump them together apart from similar climate) is nice but there are some cold (sub-zero to 20 degrees but it'll be 40-50 again soon) but sunny and dry days in the winter and hot (90-100 and it might stay 90+) but dry days in the summer.

California weather is better. In the San Francisco bay area the right distance to the ocean gets you 50+ degree daytime temperatures most of the winter, late evening temperatures of 40+, and summer days that are rarely over 80. I don't recall any sub-freezing nights this year.

Cost of living varies radically on where and what you can accept for housing (two people and a cat don't "need" more than one bedroom although they could buy a victorian mansion in depressed areas of the country for the same money).

I know that CA weather is legendary for its mildness but I'm not sure about the cost of living. I will have to look around. Also, knowing someone who has still connections helps, so that's one reason why Denver looks better to me. He also says that there are very few days with sub zero temperatures, very little snow. He lived in NYC more than a year now and according to him, Denver Winters are a lot warmer, shorter and have little snow compared to NYC. And I don't mind the heat at all. It can be 90F+/90%+ in NYC for days or weeks at a time and temps close to 105F are not uncommon. Mail delivery people wear white cotton gloves in Summer often, their little carts can get that hot. So I'd trade that for dry heat with a smile. And some Winter with little snow and lots of sunshine doesn't sound bad.

And according to the statistics I can find Denver has over 300 sunny days per year and NYC under/around 200. Like I said above basically from November until late April it's all cold and gloomy here.

If Denver doesn't work out, CA is not too far!

Oh, and speaking of crappy NYC weather: it has this annoying tendency to have sunny weekdays and rainy weekends. I don't know how that works but it's true. I often end up taking time off just to be able to get away while it's sunny out. 2008 or 2009 was the worst: every single weekend in April and May rained.

Adam- Just drop the bomb and move to California! Cost of living is relative but it does not have to consume your entire paycheck, being here in California. Houses are dirt cheap in some areas which can help afford good life in other places but it is all up to what one wants to invest and where. Ideally San Diego is the place to be because of the weather, cycling, neighborhoods and way of life. It is much better there than in Los Angeles.

Oddly, you may find some good IT contacts to network with at our LBS.

The CA and CO suggestions look like real winners based on your criteria. If you can accept a bit of wet, the Willamette Valley in OR has a very mild climate. We get snow at most five days a year and only have about twenty days with overnight lows below freezing. However, sometimes one can get awfully tired of waiting for the rains to stop. As you know, rain needn't keep one from riding, it just makes it a little less fun when it is happening every day. It is not unusual for wetness to abound from October to May. On the upside, our summers are to die for. Highs rarely reach into the 90s and there are just enough summer rainstorms to be fun. A growing number of people are giving bikes a whirl here and the backlash seems to be dieing down. If you have issues with either tree pollen or grass pollen, stay away, you will suffer. Also, the population is less educated than you might be used to and the job market is best described as nonexistent.

Good luck on the search.

Doesn't it snow in Denver?
Really, all of the left coast is rather mild.... even Seattle.

Me? I'd go for U.S. Virgin Islands or Guam. :)

Have you considered California ... :thumb:

http://rlv.zcache.com/weather_is_here_wish_you_were_beautiful_postcard-p239577561766750300qibm_400.jpg

I grew up in Denver, and I suggest you avoid it. There are warm spells in the winter but there are also times when it's miserably cold (below zero) for weeks. There are some brutally hot days in the summer. Spring is about two days long.

I'd check out the central California coast. It's beautiful and has great weather year round. I'm not sure how expensive it is there, but it's for sure cheaper than the Bay Area.

I hear San Francisco is expensive, but the weather is pretty sweet; an hour east is Davis, one of the bike-friendlier American towns.

(Check my spelling, but) Redding, CA, outside Santa Cruz (WAY outside, I'm told) has nearly half the cost of living of Santa Cruz -- which is why Chris King's workforce had such a presence there some years ago....

I know this topic, in various incarnations, has been discussed over and over but I have a question from slightly different angle. Also, out of all the forums this seems to be the most appropriate. I've been asking around but most people don't understand our needs. Everybody wants to live close to shopping malls, movie theaters, stadiums, have a house, two cars and 50" TV, etc. Also, we have no kids, so we're not concerned with schools. Solitude and peace and quiet are more important to us than anything else.

My wife and I are willing to make sacrifices in terms of work and income and our standard of living. We can live car-free or not. We don't need to be close to any cultural centers, bars, theaters, etc. As I mentioned in few other threads, we've been working on simplifying our lives. Our needs are pretty basic by now. But obviously bike-friendly and proximity to nice outdoors (touring, camping, hiking) would be a plus.

So here is the question:

Where in the USA would I have to move to (not a particular city, but a general area), to avoid long, harsh Winters and extremely humid Summers and get more sunny days? And not to live in a crowded large city. Basically, I'd like to move somewhere where temperatures in Winter don't drop below freezing for more than a few weeks and where there is little snow and the humidity in Summer isn't >80% most of the time.

If I was to chose, however, I'd chose hot and humid Summers over harsh, frigid, snowy Winters.

I'm tired of the NYC crowds, can't stand the mass transit so I have been commuting by bike for years, but Winters are becoming a problem. I tried to commute through the Winter in NYC for the second year, but my tolerance for cold weather is lower every year, it seems. I opted not to ride several times last month when temperatures dropped from 40s to 20s overnight. I just couldn't handle it.

I also suffer from depression and every Winter is a battle to remain sane. Then we get a couple of months of gloom and rain until some time in May. I need to move somewhere where there is more sunlight. In NYC the period between November and April is usually very, very lousy. That's like half a year of sucky weather with very few pleasant days scattered throughout.

Florida is out of question: too humid, too flat and boring and job market seems to suck.

I've been thinking about Arizona, parts of New Mexico. Since I've lived in NYC for 20 years, since I came to USA, such a move would be major undertaking from psychological and logistical perspectives. I was thinking about moving to Louisville, KY for some time, as an intermediate location before going further.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Either NorCal or SoCal would work.

Here's my review of:

Bland Diego(San Diego)

Near the coast, the weather is pretty much perfect at 70 degrees 4/5 times of the year. The other 1/5 is either raining or cloudy(June Gloom).

Inland, it is hotter around 80-90, but it isn't humid. The only times it gets remotely humid is one or two weeks of August, but it's it. The rest is easy living weather. You actually do need a jacket during the wintertimes at night, but it's like NYC Fall weather.

One thing though, San Diego is a hard place to setup roots because almost everyone are transplants themselves. People tend to come and go relatively quickly.

Also, the pay is less here because of the suntax.

I'm glad I experienced it though. Sorta miss it at times, but I remember it can get boring there and that's why I refer to it as Bland Diego. It isn't as diverse and progress thinking as the Bay Area.

Bay Area would be another good choice. It is expensive here, but it is worth it. Very mild winters that last from Dec-Feb. Very cycling friendly. It can get hot here in the summer(East Bay) but it isn't so humid, not at all like NYC humid where you can't sleep because of it.

Central California is beautiful. I really like Solvang. That would be a cool place for me to retire.

If you are going to rent, all of these places have affordable rent if you look in certain areas, you just have to look closer, but for houses, I'm not so sure.

And since this is in CarFree. I've lived CarFree in both San Diego and the Bay Area and I like the Bay Area better for car free living since the transportation(BART) runs more. Some of the buses here have very limited hours, but luckily I don't depend on them. I felt sorta isolated in San Diego being carfree since the rapid transportation system wasn't so vast. I rode on too many LONG bus rides. Yuck!

I guess I need to read up about California more then. I'm really quite unfamiliar with it. I never considered it because I believed it's too expensive. And yeah, we'd rent, not interested in buying a house.

And Oregon is beautiful and mild but gets too much rain for my liking from what I understand.

Closer to home look into Asheville NC. Definitely not flat, cheaper than CA, weather will be about 10 degrees warmer in the winter than you are now and about 10 degrees cooler in the summer with lower humidity. The city itself is very compact and has a lot to offer for a city of 80K. It will help if you like folk/blue grass music and beer (a lot of craft breweries for it's size). At a little over 2K ft in elevation it's easier to get acclimated to than say Boulder (I'll admit that's merely a short term problem) and should be less than a day a way from NYC depending on how you choose to get there. It's not San Diego but it shouldn't make you feel as if you've abandoned your side of the world.

Closer to home look into Asheville NC. Definitely not flat, cheaper than CA, weather will be about 10 degrees warmer in the winter than you are now and about 10 degrees cooler in the summer with lower humidity. The city itself is very compact and has a lot to offer for a city of 80K. It will help if you like folk/blue grass music and beer (a lot of craft breweries for it's size). At a little over 2K ft in elevation it's easier to get acclimated to than say Boulder (I'll admit that's merely a short term problem) and should be less than a day a way from NYC depending on how you choose to get there. It's not San Diego but it shouldn't make you feel as if you've abandoned your side of the world.

Interesting. I didn't expect someone would bring up any place on the East Coast other than Louisville, KY. I have been to both Carolinas, mainly in Spring and it was definitely warmer than NYC. But I have no experience during other seasons. I mainly spent my time hiking for a few days or it was a stop on the way to Florida.

San Diego looks nice weather-wise, but it's hilly, I'll never get my wife to ride regularly. But I'm considering all the options. I've started a list with cons and pros. I'll try to limit to no more than 5 locations, at least one on the East Coast, and go visit for a few weeks in April or May.

Keep the ideas coming, this is very helpful. I really appreciate everybody's willingness to help.

If you're still considering California options, pretty much anywhere in the Central Valley is as flat as your wife would ever wish for biking. Here in Sac, for instance, my normal 10-30 mile daily rides never vary more than 100 feet or so in altitude. (we're on a flood plain). Should I feel the need for some terrain challanges, though, the Sierras are in view on the eastern horizon.

Weather here is strange. Summers can be wicked hot.... easily over 100F for days in a row. The humidity isn't at all bad, though, and come evening the delta breeze quickly cools things off. Winters are mild. We'll see a fair amount of rain and fog then, but nothing like, say, Portland.

In general, it's very bike friendly here. Lots of special purpose bike trails and/or bike lanes on most major roads- I can connect to one a mile or so from my house and then travel thirty plus scenic miles along the American River bike trail, for instance. Someone's already mentioned Davis, which is just down the road a few miles, which enthusiastically welcomes bikes and bike culture.

Job-wise, it's frankly 'iffy' right here now, but no more so than in most places these days. If you're going to be renting, you'd find some real bargains. The housing crash has left a huge backlog of unsold/vacant/for sale homes, and a lot of owners looking for tenants to fill them.

If you have any Sacramento area specific questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

If you're still considering California options, pretty much anywhere in the Central Valley is as flat as your wife would ever wish for biking. Here in Sac, for instance, my normal 10-30 mile daily rides never vary more than 100 feet or so in altitude. (we're on a flood plain). Should I feel the need for some terrain challanges, though, the Sierras are in view on the eastern horizon.

Weather here is strange. Summers can be wicked hot.... easily over 100F for days in a row. The humidity isn't at all bad, though, and come evening the delta breeze quickly cools things off. Winters are mild. We'll see a fair amount of rain and fog then, but nothing like, say, Portland.

In general, it's very bike friendly here. Lots of special purpose bike trails and/or bike lanes on most major roads- I can connect to one a mile or so from my house and then travel thirty plus scenic miles along the American River bike trail, for instance. Someone's already mentioned Davis, which is just down the road a few miles, which enthusiastically welcomes bikes and bike culture.

Job-wise, it's frankly 'iffy' right here now, but no more so than in most places these days. If you're going to be renting, you'd find some real bargains. The housing crash has left a huge backlog of unsold/vacant/for sale homes, and a lot of owners looking for tenants to fill them.

If you have any Sacramento area specific questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

I have to compile all the info into the list I'm making and do some research before I start asking more questions. CA really looks like a great place weather-wise and geography-wise. And yeah, unemployment is quite high, even higher than Florida, but like you said it's kind of hard everywhere right now.

Years ago my home was in the suburbs of New Orleans. I moved to LA for a while and the only things I noticed that cost more were gasoline and rent. All of my food and other goods cost the same. The sales taxes were even lower in LA so that almost made up the difference.

Several people have commented to me that it is expensive here in Montana. Rents are high in some places. I pay $650 per month for two bedrooms. Water is included but that's not much. With no sales taxes it seems to be a good deal but property taxes are high. Certainly part of my rent goes to property taxes. Energy prices are very high, plus we use a lot of it in the winters.

It has been nine years since my last visit to LA. The winter I spent there was cold. The overnight low temperature actually got to below freezing for a couple of weeks. With my Montana experience behind me I would just laugh at that past "cold" winter in LA.

Los Angeles is a crowded place. Houses are close together and not every area has off street parking for apartment dwellers. Due to street sweeping, car owners must remain aware of days that they must move their cars to another street, otherwise they'll be ticketed.

If you live anywhere near an interstate highway you'll hear the cars rolling by twenty-four hours per day. In New Orleans the highways would be very quiet in the late evenings and early mornings. In LA it's non-stop. That really amazed me. In Montana it's very quiet at night no matter where you live.

I really miss the clutter and noisiness of LA.

Where I live in a low/medium income neighborhood in Queens a 2 bedroom apt runs at least $1,200. I pay $950 because I have a deal with the landlord: I keep the sidewalk clean of garbage and snow and take the garbage cans out two days a week when the trash is picked up. It's a three family house. He rents same apt on the second floor for $1,300. Hot water and gas are included. My electricity bill is about $150 a month minimum, close to or even over $300 in Summer (end of May til Sep) when a couple ACs run. And I pay an extra $100 for a parking spot. In a better building with a superintendent, garage, laundry room, etc., a 2 bedroom will run over $2k. And this is just average, middle class area in Queens, nothing fancy.

I understand that I'd make 1/2 or less of what I make now but the cost of living will be significantly lower elsewhere. According to various online calculators I have found I need to make less than 50% of what I'm making now to maintain a similar living standard. If I manage to keep my needs low, I might even need less.


I really miss the clutter and noisiness of LA.

Isaac Asimov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov) (my fav writer, BTW) liked to write in a noisy sidewalk cafe in NYC.

LOL, well I'm a NATIVE of Colorado Springs, I don't own a car and I'll let you know, it can get COLD here! In Jan. we had several days at -10 below+!! Many of those SUNNY days, come with a VERY COLD WIND! Yes, it's better than say MN. etc. but it's NOT as mellow as they've lead you believe!! Believe it or not, The month with the "highest" snowfall" is usually "MARCH", Spring in many places in the USA. We've just been through 4 days of GRAY, COLD, a little snow and ICE", it's been known to SNOW on Memorial Day Weekend here. The weather is constantly changing so you have to watch the weather "everyday" from Sept to May, cause it can be sunny and 40+ in the morning and a blizzard with 6+ inches of snow by afternoon!!:notamused: It's a great place to live in general but the IT/Hi-Tech has taken a HUGE hit lately and is not showing much "growth". So take what they've said with a BIG grain of salt, FYI, jmho, ymmv.:o

LOL, well I'm a NATIVE of Colorado Springs, I don't own a car and I'll let you know, it can get COLD here! In Jan. we had several days at -10 below+!! Many of those SUNNY days, come with a VERY COLD WIND! Yes, it's better than say MN. etc. but it's NOT as mellow as they've lead you believe!! Believe it or not, The month with the "highest" snowfall" is usually "MARCH", Spring in many places in the USA. We've just been through 4 days of GRAY, COLD, a little snow and ICE", it's been known to SNOW on Memorial Day Weekend here. The weather is constantly changing so you have to watch the weather "everyday" from Sept to May, cause it can be sunny and 40+ in the morning and a blizzard with 6+ inches of snow by afternoon!!:notamused: It's a great place to live in general but the IT/Hi-Tech has taken a HUGE hit lately and is not showing much "growth". So take what they've said with a BIG grain of salt, FYI, jmho, ymmv.:o

So it starts looking like Texas or California!

Doesn't it snow in Denver?
Really, all of the left coast is rather mild.... even Seattle.

Me? I'd go for U.S. Virgin Islands or Guam. :)

I lived in Seattle for 18 months and six months before that on the east side. It SUCKED compared to Boulder and I was overjoyed to leave. The high humidity and limited sun meant that 60 degrees felt colder than 40-45 in Colorado provided you weren't just sitting there. There were times with three straight weeks of no sun. While it doesn't rain a lot, it's constantly raining (I think the record of 28 rain days in a row got set when we were there).

Colorado cities like Boulder are arid or alpine desert environments. Snow is infrequent, the low humidity means it can sublimate, and the sun means it melts fast. With a flexible schedule and some snow on the ground you can usually wait to head for your office until the afternoon and take your road bike because it will have disappeared. That's _way_ more pleasant than Seattle.

Austin's nice. It's been 80 degrees the past 3 weeks. There's no real winter to speak of. It only gets cold in December and January and that's relative. Very bike friendly city with good views of the hill country. Humid in the summer but much less so than Houston or Dallas.
Oh, and it's a blue city in a red state (if that matters to you at all).

If climate is the most important thing and you want the most pleasant climate, then I think the best place is San Diego.

What about culture? Do you want to be near all sorts of people in all sorts of professions? Do you want to be near concerts, art galleries, liberal-minded people (as you are now?) Would you be happy in a place where the first question people ask is what church you go to? Of course, my tastes run towards the NYC type, which is why I'm still in the area. We'll probably be moving back to Manhattan in a couple of years.

But when I travel, I look around and picture myself living where I'm traveling. I've been to Denver a few times. Last time I was there, the air was so dry that my skin hurt. That's common there. I don't think I'd like that. Also, the politics out there are definitely not to my taste. That may not matter to you. The climate is interesting, though. A very good friend of mine moved there, and he loves the climate. The rapid changes there just amuse him. You can have a foot of snow one day and 70ºF the next day. They get a lot of snow, but it never sits on the ground for long because of the rapid changes in temperature. The old saying "if you don't like the weather here, wait a minute" applies more there than anywhere I've ever been. I remember hearing the Denver weather man say, "we'll be getting a little bit of snow tonight. Not much, like around 12 or 13 inches." :lol:

My daughter Maddy is in college in San Francisco. They have odd weather, but it's totally tolerable. She's a weather wimp, and she loves the climate there. I could definitely enjoy life there. It's an extremely vibrant city. Even the plentiful homeless folks there are friendly and polite.

Silicon Valley is much drier but it doesn't seem like much of a place to commute by bike. It's a great place to ride recreationally, though. Culturally, it looks boring, and the traffic is horrendous.

We visited Eugene, OR a couple of years ago. Fantastic. Everyone lives off the land to a small degree, by growing food or fishing or hunting. My cousin who lives there swaps food with her neighbors. We caught trout for dinner, and it was incredible. Lots of people ride bikes there. Even the homeless ride bikes there. I saw one guy whose bike which was pulling a trailer which was pulling another trailer!

Portland, OR is a cyclists heaven by what I'm hearing about it.

I've been to Seattle a few times. I could definitely live there, too.

Before you dismiss the raininess of the northwest, you have to see it. It's a gentler rain. It's more frequent, for sure, but the weather rarely gets severe. It doesn't stop people from hiking, jogging, cycling, etc. Lots of people are out doing sports or bike-commuting every day of the year. Seattle has more homeless per capita than any other city, possibly because the climate is really mild. It's not for everyone. Some need to see the sun more frequently. But it's not the kind of rain that keeps you indoors.

My daughter Julia is in college in Olympia, WA. It rains a lot there, too. But oddly, the humidity on the ground isn't high. She says the bikes sit out on the bike racks 24 hours a day and don't rust. But the ground is always soggy. It's beautiful there. Absolutely stunning. And it even smells beautiful. But she says the culture there is very dull.

As for job markets, look at it this way. You don't need a job market or an economy. You just need a job. Well, two, because your wife needs one, too. So apply for jobs in your target city (or cities). If you get one, you can plan your move. And they might even fly you out for the interviews!

This thread is interesting to me, because it gets my imagination going.

New content:

Oh, someone recommended driving a truck. Last week, I would have thought that absurd. But we ran into a neighbor this weekend as her brother was visiting. They grew up in NYC, and the brother now lives in the Catskills. As you probably know, it's a gorgeous area with a bad economy. He's loving it there because he drives a truck, has reasonable hours, and he gets to enjoy the area. That place is really something. And maybe we don't have to define ourselves by our work if life is good. I don't know if I could give in to that lifestyle, but I know plenty do, even educated people.

I'm an atheist, wife is Roman-Catholic but she goes to church like once a year. We'd rather not live in a bible town.

No, we don't need museums, galleries, concert venues, etc. We might want to go somewhere like that a couple of times a year. Although, a lot of this is caused by our dislike for traveling around NYC, finding parking, etc. If we were living in a place where the weather is nice most of the time we would probably enjoy riding our bikes to outdoor concerts, cafes, zoos, etc.

But we are pretty much closed people who don't require much in terms of social interactions and cultural amenities. Music, books and internet is pretty much what we need plus the outdoors. We're really bummed with NYC weather and how unpleasant it is to get out of here for a day and then come back. Pretty and quite mountains are within 2h drive but a whole day of hiking through the woods is spoiled by driving back to the hive, by the time we clear NYC bridges and get to Queens we're already sick of it, well mainly I am, my wife usually naps on the way home :D

Although, we'd prefer to live around liberal-minded and open minded people or in place when we can be left alone and no one bothers us.

I know the religion and open-mindedness can be issues in many smaller towns in USA so we're still looking at living in a larger city with mixed and diverse population but something smaller than NYC, cleaner and on mainland. I'm sick and tired of living on an island with crowded and expensive to cross bridges.

As I mentioned somewhere above, one of the reasons I want to move is because I suffer from depression and there seems to be no cure for it other than major lifestyle change and moving to a place with significantly more sunny days and warmer weather. This winter was particularly hard on me, that's why I decided to accelerate this. That's why lots of rain may not work well for me.

We did some math today and it may take us until Spring next year before we're debt free and have enough savings to take a shot at moving and being able to survive at least 6 months at our destination.

I don't want to seek a job first. That would be expensive and frustrating. I want to move with enough resources so I can look for a job while I'm already there. People at my level in the food chain don't get flown in for job interviews :) I know, my dept was hiring and they were not interested in transplants from other states: the administration wouldn't pay to fly a tech from another state. Plus, these kind of jobs are usually to be filled a.s.a.p. without enough time for a candidate to move from out of state. I'd also like to find part-time or temping job that would allow me to have more free time for myself. I don't want a full time job any more.