Commuting - Why aren't you riding a steel bike!?

So about a week ago when unlocking my bike right after walking out of a local Trader Joes in the middle of Boston's Boylston St. I am greeted by this youngish (20-30) year old.

Now ive got my Redline Conquest Pro out today for the fine weather and all of a sudden I am asked by a youngish (20-30) steel lover: "Is that steel!?".

Me: "No it's aluminum"
Steel lover: "Why anre't you riding a steel bike!?"
Me: "Because I like the way my aluminum rides"
Steel lover: "But man that bike could just shatter underneath you"
Me: "I have ridden alot of aluminum bikes and none of them have ever shattered underneath me, I like the way aluminum rides"
Steel lover: "Well alright man, but ride safe, ride safe..."

A few other non-insulting back and forth occured in-between these highlights and I rode off.

Was this guy trolling me? Or do some people really feel like aluminum frames will magically shatter beneath others and they just need to expound upon why it is a bad idea for them to ride aluminum frames or in this guys case what seemed like non-steel frames? I will admit I have a certain love for this one bike and I felt like he had just called my child ugly so I might have taken his comments a little too close to the heart.

Has anyone else had this sort of thing happen to them before though?

Some people get too much of their information off online bike forums....

Also read my tag line

So about a week ago when unlocking my bike right after walking out of a local Trader Joes in the middle of Boston's Boylston St. I am greeted by this youngish (20-30) year old.

Now ive got my Redline Conquest Pro out today for the fine weather and all of a sudden I am asked by a youngish (20-30) steel lover: "Is that steel!?".

Me: "No it's aluminum"
Steel lover: "Why anre't you riding a steel bike!?"
Me: "Because I like the way my aluminum rides"
Steel lover: "But man that bike could just shatter underneath you"
Me: "I have ridden alot of aluminum bikes and none of them have ever shattered underneath me, I like the way aluminum rides"
Steel lover: "Well alright man, but ride safe, ride safe..."

A few other non-insulting back and forth occured in-between these highlights and I rode off.

Was this guy trolling me? Or do some people really feel like aluminum frames will magically shatter beneath others and they just need to expound upon why it is a bad idea for them to ride aluminum frames or in this guys case what seemed like non-steel frames? I will admit I have a certain love for this one bike and I felt like he had just called my child ugly so I might have taken his comments a little too close to the heart.

Has anyone else had this sort of thing happen to them before though?

The vast, vast, vast majority of mountain bikes are aluminum. A mountain bike sees far more severe usage than a road bike and mountain bikers don't worry about their bike 'shattering' underneath them. I wonder if the guy rides steel wheels because aluminum ones will 'shatter'. I wonder if he only flies on steel planes...good luck finding one. The guy was a know-nothing. Ignore him.

Has anyone else had this sort of thing happen to them before though?

Yeah - probably a lot of folks that ride steel have gotten some guff from those that ride bikes made of Ti, Al, Carbon, Mg or Rearden Metal.

As for his position, I've read (on the internet, no less!) that aluminum frames can fail suddenly, though not quite a briskly or devastating as carbon is said to do. I wouldn't know as I'm not a metallurgist; maybe he was, for all we know. Maybe he was the East Coast Regional Shill for Rivendell. :)

Your taking the comment to heart is good in that is shows your genuine respect and affection for your machine. That said, try and not let it bother you too much - we all have our personal tastes, and they don't always align. I don't think he was trolling; I think he was simply uncouth. If being uncouth were a crime, then I'd be serving life based on the things I've said in my 20's and most of my 30's (I'm much more couth now, thank you).

As for his position, I've read (on the internet, no less!) that aluminum frames can fail suddenly, though not quite a briskly or devastating as carbon is said to do. I wouldn't know as I'm not a metallurgist; maybe he was, for all we know. Maybe he was the East Coast Regional Shill for Rivendell. :)


Being something of an expert at making bikes fail...6 frames, 4 actual frame failures...and breaking numerous parts, I can tell you that I trust the failure mode of aluminum far more than I trust steel. Aluminum has never 'shattered' or failed catastrophically on me. It always seems to tear and release energy slowly. Steel, on the other hand, has always broken without warning and with a rather loud 'ping!'

This was an amusing exchange. If you are that worried about frames breaking you better inspect your bike after every ride and inspect every person's bike you come in contact with to help them out and keep them safe. I am pretty nice to my bikes so I don't expect any failures any time soon, but its a good idea to inspect them every once in a while. The only thing that really failed catastrophically when I was riding it was the steel handlebar on a Sears mountain bike at the camp I used to go to as a kid. I was trying to get some air on a hill and pulled up on the handlebar. It snapped off between the brake lever and the stem. I was fine and I apologized for breaking it, but nobody seemed to care too much. Its amazing those bikes lasted as long as they did.

It was a couple dumb questions by a guy who was expressing his own paranoias. If he actually knew anything about either aluminum or steel frames he wouldn`t have had to ask you if the frame was steel - he would have known.

No need to get either defensive or offensive - just let it go and don`t take it personally. You`re probably having a lot more fun than he is.

Being something of an expert at making bikes fail...6 frames, 4 actual frame failures...and breaking numerous parts, I can tell you that I trust the failure mode of aluminum far more than I trust steel. Aluminum has never 'shattered' or failed catastrophically on me. It always seems to tear and release energy slowly. Steel, on the other hand, has always broken without warning and with a rather loud 'ping!'

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a steel frame just up and separate at the head tube/down tube junction. I didn't hear the ping sound, but that was probably because I was busy flying over the car that had just "brake checked" me.:roflmao:

In case you are wondering, no damage to the organic unit. I stuck the landing.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a steel frame just up and separate at the head tube/down tube junction. I didn't hear the ping sound, but that was probably because I was busy flying over the car that had just "brake checked" me.:roflmao:

In case you are wondering, no damage to the organic unit. I stuck the landing.


We have a Winner ... :thumb:

I prefer steel but it's a ride thing for me, I own a aluminum MTB and have nothing against them, just prefer steel when it comes to my daily and tour bikes.

Sounds like he was just trying to get a rise out of you.

It was a couple dumb questions by a guy who was expressing his own paranoias. If he actually knew anything about either aluminum or steel frames he wouldn`t have had to ask you if the frame was steel - he would have known.

No need to get either defensive or offensive - just let it go and don`t take it personally. You`re probably having a lot more fun than he is.

Yeah, you can tell from the big and ugly welds on aluminum bikes.

I wonder if he only flies on steel planes...good luck finding one.

Piper cub.

Next challenge

He is confusing alluminum bikes with carbon bikes.


But, yes.......Steel is real!

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa87/DVC45/IMG_3482-1.jpg

Some people get too much of their information off online bike forums....

That there is funny.

My guess is this guy has a man crush on some bicycle messenger, and hangs on every word that said messenger utters.

The guy was just ignorant. Like many uninformed LBS dweebs I've encountered, spouting their uninformed cliches.

He is confusing alluminum bikes with carbon bikes.


But, yes.......Steel is real!



Aluminum is imaginary? Aluminum is the bicycle equivalent of the square root of -1?:eek:

Piper cub.

Next challenge

Something that can carry more then 2 people.

The guy was at once interested but ignorant, and wanted to appear informed in a conversation, that's all. Just talk. Somebody wanting to connect, but doing it sorta clumsily. Yesterday at the train station a person that I'm 95% certain was born a man but living as a woman, wandered over and engaged me in a conversation about why she can't ride a bike anymore (heart trouble) and how she misses it, and that, since my bike has disk brakes, it's clearly very expensive.

I've had a 2 year old Walmart/Mongoose aluminum frame fail catastrophically under what I would term as 'light mountain biking'. The downtube snapped completely through a couple inches above the BB.

I just retired a Gary Fisher aluminum frame that has seen a lot of 'heavy mountain biking' for 5 years, including drops to flat of 3-4 feet, without a peep out of it.

Your aluminum ride probably won't shatter underneath you,

but seriously tho', why aren't you riding a steel bike? It's that sweet springiness I can't get over. You are missing out. ;)

Something that can carry more then 2 people.
Sukhoi is Ti/SS, Budd and Fleetwings both made stainless steel aircraft for the military...

He is confusing alluminum bikes with carbon bikes.

Yeah, no kidding. You should have set him straight and explained that while aluminum has a harsh ride, carbon shatters and steel is flexy. ;)

I love steel. Three out of my four bikes are steel. The fourth is my LWB 'bent, which is aluminum. I certainly don't worry about it shattering. It also has a smooth ride due to the long-wheelbase, and the fact I sit between the wheels rather than mostly over the rear one.

Aluminum will flex a little. It may cause it to crack someday, but probably not for decades.

If I could find a lugged aluminum frame maybe that would prevent the inevitable shattering.....

Maybe because thats what I wanted to ride.

I don't care for aluminum frames, but thats just me.

Ride what you want!

Just to reassure this igno, in case he approaches me about my aluminum bike, I'm having a custom frame made for my next bike...out of plutonium.

I like a bit of variety. I have 2 steel, 2 aluminum, and 1 carbon fiber. I'll get a titanium as soon as the dental board issues my license.

I have one steel and one Al. I dont expect either to shatter. I prefer the steel one, but I've had a lot of good riding on the AL bike too. I would expect a good steel bike to outlast some of the thin-walled AL bikes, but I don't think you can really make generalities about steel vs AL vs CF. Its all about design and quality of construction. Ride whatever you think rides well.

From what I can guess, he's got a carryover mentality from the early days of bonded Alu frames, and probably still refers to Cannondale as "Crack-n-Fail".
Yeah, way back in the day, (probably before this kiddo was off his training wheels) there was an issue with bonded Alu and frames that were routinely pounded on had a tendency to separate; in particular, at the head tube. I had it happen to an old C'dale bonded MTB of mine, but this is a long since remedied problem with all manufacturers.

I am 20% steel, 10% aluminum, and 70% IPA.

I like a bit of variety. I have 2 steel, 2 aluminum, and 1 carbon fiber. I'll get a titanium as soon as the dental board issues my license.

I've had 17 steel bikes out of 31 total bikes. Of my current stable...8 bikes...only the tandem* that hasn't been ridden since about 1993 is steel. Two titanium and 5 aluminums. I'm very, very, very over steel.

I've also broken 2 steel frames and 2 aluminum frames as well as smashing on steel frame into a car and one steel bike into a hole. Of the frames that really broke, the aluminum breaks were slow cracks and the metal tore. The steel frames did what everyone thinks aluminum does...it fractured.


*If you are in the Denver Area and want a tandem, I'll make you a deal;)

Being something of an expert at making bikes fail...6 frames, 4 actual frame failures...and breaking numerous parts, I can tell you that I trust the failure mode of aluminum far more than I trust steel. Aluminum has never 'shattered' or failed catastrophically on me. It always seems to tear and release energy slowly. Steel, on the other hand, has always broken without warning and with a rather loud 'ping!'

What do you do to your bikes that you have so many failures?

I got a good price on a whole Bike , the frame happens to be 'triple hardened' 7005, and made strong
as its intended purpose is international adventure self contained touring
on rough roads.. paved and not.

Oversized aluminum tube does not flex and by not flexing the frame lasts a long time.
stiffness is it's longevity. that's the key.

What do you do to your bikes that you have so many failures?

No kidding. It's time to take a pass on the tiramisu ;)

Has anyone tried bamboo wood instead?

http://www.pandabicycles.com/bikes/

I am pretty material agnostic valuing overall design and bike fit than frame material. I think tire selection (type and width), tire air pressure, frame geometry and fit contribute far more to rider comfort than material composition.

I don't ride steel because I have a nice, comfy, fast, light carbon bike. :D

Oversized aluminum tube does not flex and by not flexing the frame lasts a long time.
stiffness is it's longevity. that's the key.
I'd imagine that the reduced flex from the OS stiffness does contribute to longevity (longer fatigue life).
Comfort suffers, though.
I loved my old C'Dale 3.0 series criterium frame. Stiff as hell. Sprinted like a dream. I was in my 20's and was okay with the brutal ride.
I tried doing some road rides on the same frame in my 30's and found myself feeling pretty beat up on aything longer than 20 miles.

With one exception, all of my mountain bikes have been aluminum, and I've liked the stiffness when combined with a good 80mm fork.

I think the tendency to spec OS AL tubing (because of the need to stiffen things up to avoid fatigue failures) is part of optimizing the material for use in frames.

I could ride my Tommasini (Columbus EL OS Chro Mo) all day long with no issues of bodily beating by contrast.

A small-diameter AL bike would be every bit as comfy, but would not be as stiff as the Tommi, and I'd be concerned about the longevity.

I think your encounter largely shows the other person's ignorance, and, as someone mentioned, an outdated perspective (i.e. bonded AL).

I believe both my bikes are steel, but there's no particular reason for that. Just the bikes that I liked in the store, material wasn't a driving factor in the purchase decision. Actually, my MTB is now 14ish years old, and I'm really not sure what it's made of, but would be surprised if it were anything but steel.

One of my wife's bikes is aluminum and the geometry and build quality make it a heavier frame than her steel bike.

I've borrowed and rented aluminum bikes, and found that any difference in ride was negligible. I really couldn't tell the difference. Which makes sense, since differences between the materials can be counteracted by altering the shape, diameter, thickness, butting, etc., of the tubing. The aluminum may have creaked a little more.

Polished Alum '94 Cannondale KV900 that has never let me down.

The Internet is a useful tool that often leads us to become tools on the Internet... my Droogies.

Has anyone tried bamboo wood instead?

http://www.pandabicycles.com/bikes/

Bikes made with are such a cool idea. The cost means I'll never own one, but thats ok with me though.

The guy is misinformed. You can try to set him straight, but it probably won't work.

I have a family member who is always complaining about how there cars never last. I tell them its because of the way they drive. They continue to drive the same way and keep encountering the same problems. I guess the cars they keep getting just aren't reliable.

Just to reassure this igno, in case he approaches me about my aluminum bike, I'm having a custom frame made for my next bike...out of plutonium.

Radiation aside, I think that's a soft metal. You might as well have a lead bike.

Bikes made with are such a cool idea. The cost means I'll never own one, but thats ok with me though.

Actually, all things considered, they're not very expensive... looking at the roadie..

The Legacy is standard with the SRAM Rival groupo, a Ritchey carbon fork, and all the accoutrements to get you on the road in style and comfort. Order The Legacy Today. Price: $3250.


If you compare with similarly equipped "metal" bike built in Asia, it's really quite a deal.

What do you do to your bikes that you have so many failures?
The bikes, in order, were

Univega VivaSport: Ran it into a car...with me on it.
Univega Sportour: Ran it into a hole and bent the downtube.
Miyata Ridge Runner: My first mountain bike. 1983 production mountain bikes just weren't up to the pounding that mountain bikes endure. The Ridge Runner fork broke, the frame broke at the dropout and the frame broke at the chainstay bridge.
Specialized Rock Combo: Another mountain bike had the same problem as the Miyata.
1998 Specialized Stumpjumper Pro: Super good mountain bike but it was made of metal matrix (boron/aluminum ceramic) and the whole line was prone to frame failure. Cracked at the chainstay bridge welds.
Nashbar Flashback cruiser/mountain bike: Too small for me and it didn't take kindly to the 1.5" setback post which tore off the seat tube above the top tube/seat tube junction.

This was near the Beacon St. TJ's you say? Was it one of those hippies who think some compounds are better for the environment and really wanted to make you feel bad about raping the land to get the ore needed to make aluminum? If so, just tell him yours is a special bike made out of recycled pop cans and you'll be his new hero.

One of these day's I'd like to build a low recumbent out of plywood, mainly for the coolness factor, and also to mess with everyone's head as to what a bicycle should look like and be made from =D

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with steel, carbon fiber, aluminium, titanium or anything else as a frame material (though you might have a few issues with plutonium/eventually lead :P .) Some people just get hyped up about one material and think everything else is inferior.

One of these day's I'd like to build a low recumbent out of plywood, mainly for the coolness factor, and also to mess with everyone's head as to what a bicycle should look like and be made from =D

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with steel, carbon fiber, aluminium, titanium or anything else as a frame material (though you might have a few issues with plutonium/eventually lead :P .) Some people just get hyped up about one material and think everything else is inferior.

My physics teacher in high school always claimed that he had some plutonium that he put under the seats of the dumb kids because the smart kids were too smart to bring kids into this ****ty world and he didn't want the dumb kids to either.

The kid was troll, though, not entirely mis informed. A steel frame will almost always outlast an aluminum frame. This is because of something called the endurance limit of steel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit Basically there exists a stress threshold where the life of steel is functionally infinite. No such threshold exists for aluminum. This means that an aluminum frame WILL eventually succumb to fatigue while a steel frame is taken care of properly can theoretically last for ever. At this time I would like to point out that I am a Mechanical Engineer and I ride an aluminum frame.