Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Thoughts on new build?

Here is a new build I'm working on. So far I've purchased the frame, wheels and crank. I already had a set of SRAM Red brakes so I thought I would throw the front on this as well. Thoughts/ideas/rants would be appreciated. :twitchy:

FRAME- Cinelli Gazzetta Track
WHEELS- Velocity Deep V Rims laced to Phil Wood Hubs
CRANK- Sugino 75
BB- Phil Wood 108mm ISO
HEADSET- Cane Creek 110
STEM- NITTO UI21EX
HANDLEBAR- NITTO B809AA HT Alloy Riser
SEATPOST- NITTO NJSP72
SADDLE- Fizik Aliante?
COG- EAI Superstar
CHAIN- Izumi V
BRAKE- SRAM Red Front
PEDALS- MKS Street Track
TIRES- Specialized All Condition Armadillo Elite

Don't ever let that bike out of your sight for one second in DC.

BTW - you really don't need a Superstar cog. I have one and can't tell the difference between that and an EighthInch cog. Also, nix the MKS Street Track Pedal and just get Sylvans.

Yea, i know. I wouldn't really leave it locked up anywhere around my neighborhood. I'm mostly going to ride it to and from work and can bring it up to my office. I have my beater for around the neighborhood. Thanks for the advice on the cog and pedals too! :)

The reason I say nix those pedals is because they don't have a flip-tab. Some people may not find that to be an issue but for me, even a small tab is better than none when flipping into your clips.

As fancy as a Superstar cog is, it's still just a cog. Unless you want that particular cog for the bling factor, save your money.

Overall it sounds like a really nice build though. :thumb:

That would actually really bother me. I def want a flip tab. As far as the cog goes, its not a ton of money. I might end up getting it for the bling factor. I've already spent a lot- what's a little more? ;) Only thing i'm not really sure about is the seat. I typically use a brooks but I wanted to get away from that and try something new. Hopefully that isn't a mistake.

I also switched from the Chris King headset to the Cane Creek after doing some reading about patents and o-rings. The 110 has gotten really good reviews though so I'm not worried.

Why use such an expensive headset? What makes the 110 $70 better than an S3?

Not hating as it sounds like a nice build I'm just trying to understand your part selection.

Cane Creek 110 -> Cane Creek S3
EAI Superstar -> Any cog in the $15-$30 range (Eighth Inch, Origin8, All City, Dura Ace, etc.)
Izumi V -> Izumi ECO

GR9s are also a good option for street pedals, depending on the size of your foot. If you have smaller/narrow feet, GR9s are great, in my opinion.

In general, it sounds like your build is going to be sweet. Some of the component choices are a bit overkill, and if you tone them down a little you'll be saving a lot of money on parts that you probably won't even notice the difference in when riding. At least things like the seatpost and stem are a one-time purchase deal. Parts like the cog and chain are expendables.

BTW, I'm also curious as to what makes the 110 $70 better than the S3... I've been wondering for awhile. The only reason I suggest going from the 110 to S3 is because I don't understand the difference between the two, other than the price difference.

Why would you spend all that money on light/nice parts, then put heavy, crappy Deep V rims on it?

I want the wheels to be very durable. The difference in weight between the Deep V and Open Pro's works out to be about to be 170g total for both wheels. That's not a TON of extra weight and IMO, the Deep V's are better suited for the torn up streets of DC. I'm not knocking the Open Pro's and don't want to start an argument, but I personally think the Deep V's will stand up a little better.

As for the 110, I just read a lot of good reviews comparing it to the Chris King and the consensus was that it was just as good (if not better) quality than the King but without the o-ring problems. The S3 would also be a good option but if I went that route, I'd also have to order some better spacers as the Interlok spacers that come with it are apparently garbage. I also wouldn't mind having the color options of the 110.

There's nothing really wrong with a Deep V/Phil wheelset (besides snobbery). Veeps aren't as heavy as a lot of people like to make them out to be and are a very durable rim for riding on the streets of a city like DC.

Cane Creek 110 -> Cane Creek S3
EAI Superstar -> Any cog in the $15-$30 range (Eighth Inch, Origin8, All City, Dura Ace, etc.)
Izumi V -> Izumi ECO

GR9s are also a good option for street pedals, depending on the size of your foot. If you have smaller/narrow feet, GR9s are great, in my opinion.

In general, it sounds like your build is going to be sweet. Some of the component choices are a bit overkill, and if you tone them down a little you'll be saving a lot of money on parts that you probably won't even notice the difference in when riding. At least things like the seatpost and stem are a one-time purchase deal. Parts like the cog and chain are expendables.

BTW, I'm also curious as to what makes the 110 $70 better than the S3... I've been wondering for awhile. The only reason I suggest going from the 110 to S3 is because I don't understand the difference between the two, other than the price difference.

Point taken on the cog and chain though. I think I will tone them down. Thanks.

I got my Izumi ECO for $16 shipped from Universal Cycles and that'll save you almost $50. I like it so far, and it has good rep from some track racers such as carleton. The Wipperman Whitestar has also gotten good reviews.

I understand fashion, but I'm just not sure I'd spend $70 to get a colored part that is not really better in any meaningful way than the much cheaper silver or black part. Hell, for the price difference you can buy a whole stack of chris king spacers in whatever color you want.

CK headsets are put on bikes to say "Look! No expense was spared in this build!" They are nice but mostly they are a status thing.

I understand fashion, but I'm just not sure I'd spend $70 to get a colored part that is not really better in any meaningful way than the much cheaper silver or black part. Hell, for the price difference you can buy a whole stack of chris king spacers in whatever color you want.

CK headsets are put on bikes to say "Look! No expense was spared in this build!" They are nice but mostly they are a status thing.

I wholeheartedly agree but at the same time, I've spent $600 on a frame, $600 on wheels, $250 on a crankset, etc. I think I'm past the point of trying to save $50 here and $70 there. If the 110 really is *NO BETTER*, then the S3 is a no brainer (with some better spacers) but I find it difficult to believe that there really isn't a difference in quality there. That's why I'm posting this though- I'm certainly not the expert and love the advice and criticisms from you guys. When all is said and done, I might go with the S3 now.

There's nothing really wrong with a Deep V/Phil wheelset (besides snobbery). Veeps aren't as heavy as a lot of people like to make them out to be and are a very durable rim for riding on the streets of a city like DC.
It's not snobbery really. You end up with a heavier rim that catches crosswinds much better, and isn't that much durable IMO than other quality rims. My 36h Deep V wheelset is out of round(yet still true oddly), while my 32h cxp33s are true. I ride them at much higher speeds on worse roads too.Plus the rim joints on the Deep Vs are pinned instead of being welded, which is kind of annoying. I just don't see the utility in them, even based on other rims in the velocity line.

If you've got the money, go crazy.

I wholeheartedly agree but at the same time, I've spent $600 on a frame, $600 on wheels, $250 on a crankset, etc. I think I'm past the point of trying to save $50 here and $70 there.

The S3 is more on par with your wheelset (aka: durable and functional but not really a lot of drool-worthy bling value). I'm sure the 110 is a nice headset but what is a "nice headset". All the thing does is allow your fork to turn within the frame. Even X-Mart bikes with bottom-of-the-barrel headsets generally accomplish this task pretty well. A headset is simply not something to spend crazy sums of money on unless money truly is no object and you are more interested in the bling value of your bike than the ride quality of your bike.


If the 110 really is *NO BETTER*, then the S3 is a no brainer (with some better spacers) but I find it difficult to believe that there really isn't a difference in quality there. That's why I'm posting this though- I'm certainly not the expert and love the advice and criticisms from you guys. When all is said and done, I might go with the S3 now.

110 may be a couple grams lighter in weight and comes in pretty colors. The weight difference is negligible basedo n the rest of the parts in your build so all your left with is colors.

I would go for some higher aero rims such as h plus son formation face or foer rims for a more classy look.

I personally don't like the looks of some Cane Creek headsets, including the S3.

Might I suggest you a Crank Brothers (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=3490) one for relatively the same price?

Yea, I think you guys are changing my mind on the headset. I think as long as I get some better spacers for a nominal amount of money, the S3 would be more than good enough on any bike.

Not that I'm looking for any drool worthy bling value, but if my custom $650 wheels aren't at least a little bit drool worthy as far as a city bike goes, what are? Just curious... racing wheels aside. Because I'm kind of drooling over them. ;) Handmade by a fantastic wheelbuilder, Phil hubs, Wheelsmith spokes. What more could you want? And don't give me any Open Pro nonsense! :)

Just thinking out loud, but I could see this bike being thrown onto CL as one of those extremely high priced sweet fixie that never sells.

Just being a squirrel, don't hurt me.

haha, i could definitely see that too! But I'm not gonna want to sell it.

Yea, sorry. I was just being a complete dick with what I said. :P

haha, i could definitely see that too! But I'm not gonna want to sell it.

You never know.

Ask Carleton about the Tarmac. Or perhaps even the Tiermeyer.

Nah, you're kinda right. Most things on this bike are totally overkill but it's fun- this whole process is fun for me. I have a good job which allows me to do it so why not? I mean, I'm not sacrificing anything else in order to build this bike.

Nah, you're kinda right. Most things on this bike are totally overkill but it's fun- this whole process is fun for me. I have a good job which allows me to do it so why not? I mean, I'm not sacrificing anything else in order to build this bike.

Just do what you like we're just face less people on the web afterall. You worked hard for your money, so why not spend it or splurge on yourself?

this whole process is fun for me.
Exactly why I retracted the things I said.

Have a ball!

Just do what you like we're just face less people on the web afterall. You worked hard for your money, so why not spend it or splurge on yourself?

Yea, it's a lot better than buying a huge tv! And this let's me obsessively research each and every part i buy. ;)

Not that I'm looking for any drool worthy bling value, but if my custom $650 wheels aren't at least a little bit drool worthy as far as a city bike goes, what are? Just curious... racing wheels aside. Because I'm kind of drooling over them. ;) Handmade by a fantastic wheelbuilder, Phil hubs, Wheelsmith spokes. What more could you want? And don't give me any Open Pro nonsense! :)

Better hoops. Hubs and spokes have a little drool factor but deep veez are done-to-death and while they are a fine rim, they aren't exotic enough to warrant drooling over.

Since I'm semi-local I'm going to go head and publicly claim Prima Nocta Rights on this build though.

It will look good in your room not being ridden.

Better hoops. Hubs and spokes have a little drool factor but deep veez are done-to-death and while they are a fine rim, they aren't exotic enough to warrant drooling over.

Since I'm semi-local I'm going to go head and publicly claim Prima Nocta Rights on this build though.

Out of curiosity, what are some even better rims that would be just as tough (if not tougher) as the deep v's?

It will look good in your room not being ridden.

lol i am going to ride this to work every day- i'll just keep it in my office instead of locking it up (like everyone else does here- sevens are now the popular bike in my office.)

Out of curiosity, what are some even better rims that would be just as tough (if not tougher) as the deep v's?

Reynolds Forty Six Carbon Clinchers are tough and are truely drool-worthy. (about $800/hoop!)

On a more realistic note:

HED Belgium C2 Clincher is a strong rim and the HED logo adds bling value. (Maybe $120/hoop)

Even within the Velocity family of hoops- Dyads are lighter than deep vees and I don't know if they are "stronger" but they are certainly "strong enough" as they are a popular tandem, cyclocross and touring rim. ($65ish/hoop*)

*About the same price as deep vees.

What about these H Plus Son Formation Face rims? Are they every bit as good as the Deep V's? They are pretty reasonable in price and get me something a little more unique. I'm pretty sure I can change the rim in my order because there is a lead time of 3 or 4 weeks before they will actually get going on my build.

What about these H Plus Son Formation Face rims? Are they every bit as good as the Deep V's? They are pretty reasonable in price and get me something a little more unique. I'm pretty sure I can change the rim in my order because there is a lead time of 3 or 4 weeks before they will actually get going on my build.

Nevermind, you can't run a brake on the formation face rims. I think I'll be good with the deep v's...

H+son SL42s have a machined braking surface.

http://www.chariandconyc.com/images/products/detail/DSC_0892.5.jpg

oh cool. thanks! what do you think of this rim compared to the deep v? It's a little heavier.

It's 42mm deep so naturally it's a bit heavier. H+sons are quality rims and compared to a Velocity B43, considerably lighter.

You could always do an SL42 in the front and a Formation Face in the back.

i have the same frameset as OP and run a H+S F30 in the back and formation face in the front and while they are bombproof, 42mm in crosswinds is a real big pain in the ass. i'm thinking about switching out the formation face for an open pro or something without as deep a profile and lighter. otherwise, i can't complain about H+S performance and durability wise.

i just talked to the wheel builder and they only deal with Mavic, Sun and Velocity so unless I want to order different rims and ship them to him, I'm stuck. I don't think it's a big deal as those three choices give me plenty of options. He said I could go with a CXP33 if I wanted and it would be just as good (though not really any better in his opinion- just more expensive.)

What do you guys think when compared to a Deep V.

I don't understand Deep V's, other than aesthetics.

They just weigh more and catch crosswinds.

Go with Aeroheads.

Just as strong but more all around aerodynamic.

Go with any EAI cog.

The Eai cog almost perfectly matches the Phil hub, as if made for each other.

EAI consistently makes the best and roundest cog on the market.

Phil recommends the 110.5 spindle for the Sugino 75's, but I have always thought the 108 spindle would work as well or better.

Regarding the use of high-quality, expensive bearing sets, I can appreciate the appeal of using more cost-effective bearing sets that get the job done, but in a higher end bike, such as this, I think the components should match in quality.

Cheap shoes look good with Levis, but make an expensive suit look stupid.

What kind of riding are you planning to do that you are so concerned about rim strength? A well built wheel should give you a long happy service life even if the components are not the strongest money can buy. Plenty of folks happily riding around DC on all kinds of wheels that are lighter (and probably weaker) than deep vees or other deep section rims.

What kind of riding are you planning to do that you are so concerned about rim strength? A well built wheel should give you a long happy service life even if the components are not the strongest money can buy. Plenty of folks happily riding around DC on all kinds of wheels that are lighter (and probably weaker) than deep vees or other deep section rims.

Same thought in my mind.

I weigh 235 with my full kit, and I ride 24/7/365.

I've hit some nasty potholes in the dark.

My Aeroheads remain as true as ever.

Deep V's seem too great a liability in crosswinds, for me.

I just ride every day pretty much exclusively in the city where the streets are bad and i just don't want to have to worry about them. i just want to put them on and forget about it and not worry when i hit those really nasty potholes. you're right though- plenty of people ride around on much weaker wheels and are fine for the most part. i guess i'm just obsessing and want to be sure i'm getting the right rim since i'm getting them custom made and they are pretty pricey, that's all. :)

My secretary must not have given me the memo that deep section rims are out.

Phil recommends the 110.5 spindle for the Sugino 75's, but I have always thought the 108 spindle would work as well or better.


Just adding some personal experience/ insight; I only run SG75/superlap BB's (109mm spindle) and it is perfect with my phil set ups.

My secretary must not have given me the memo that deep section rims are out.

Perhaps no one wrote the memo.

However, I keep asking the same question.

Other than aesthetics, what does a rider gain from deep section rims?

Once you get to bulletproof, why pay the penalty of crosswind push and weight for extra unuseable bulletproof-ness?

If a person likes the look of Deep V's just say you like the look.

No shame in liking a certain look.

However, if Deep V's offer some advantage that overcomes the weight and crosswind disadvantage, I'd like to know about it, because, if such an advantage exists, I would get wheels made with Deep V rims.

No one rides roads any worse than I ride, and probably not as bad.

I weigh 235 all up and my Aerohead rim, 32 Sapim C-Xray spoke, Phil wheels stay true year after year and pothole after pothole.

Lighter, immune to crosswinds, and just as bulletproof as Deep V's.

So, other than the look, why Deep V's?

Just adding some personal experience/ insight; I only run SG75/superlap BB's (109mm spindle) and it is perfect with my phil set ups.

Yes, I have the 110.5 spindle, and it puts my non-drive side cup non-flush with the bottom bracket shell (threads showing).

If I went with the 108 spindle, it would give me an even number of cup threads showing on each side of the shell.

Arguably, though, a flush cup on the drive side represents the stronger arrangement.

I just ride every day pretty much exclusively in the city where the streets are bad and i just don't want to have to worry about them. i just want to put them on and forget about it and not worry when i hit those really nasty potholes. you're right though- plenty of people ride around on much weaker wheels and are fine for the most part. i guess i'm just obsessing and want to be sure i'm getting the right rim since i'm getting them custom made and they are pretty pricey, that's all. :)

Any reasonable quality rim/hub/spoke combo will accomplish this task just fine if it's built right. Don't over-think it.

Tires- running large tires will do a better job soaking up the potholes than the strongest rim in the world. What size tires will that frame clear and/or what size tires are you going to run.

I hope you don't think i'm just arguing with you to be a d-bag. I'm genuinely interested in your build and want to see it live up to your expectations.

Any reasonable quality rim/hub/spoke combo will accomplish this task just fine if it's built right. Don't over-think it.

Tires- running large tires will do a better job soaking up the potholes than the strongest rim in the world. What size tires will that frame clear and/or what size tires are you going to run.

I hope you don't think i'm just arguing with you to be a d-bag. I'm genuinely interested in your build and want to see it live up to your expectations.

Not at all- and I appreciate all the advice. I think the frame will clear 700x28c but I was planning on using a 700x25c tire. And you are right about the build quality being the most important factor and I am sure these will be the highest quality build possible (and they come with a lifetime guarantee.) I currently ride some Velocity Synergy rims laced to Ultegra hubs built by the same guy and they have been fantastic considering how badly they get beaten up.

Out of curiosity, what are some even better rims that would be just as tough (if not tougher) as the deep v's?

Drool worthy = HED C-2 rims