Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - quick release to bolt on?

oh hey ;p

so i was curious:
is it possible to convert a quick release axle to standard track bolt-on axle? is it as simple as removing the quick release and cups and hollow tube thing and substituting a longer bolt on axle?

i havn't really messed the inards of wheels yet. was just curious. thnks

hm i dont think its as simple as removing the skewer and stuff, i took my rear wheel to the shop and they made the switch for me. i was bummed on the price though

Why do you want to do this? I'd just get a bolt on skewer.

http://www.cheapbikeparts360.com/images/b/13837.jpg

Why do you want to do this? I'd just get a bolt on skewer.

http://www.cheapbikeparts360.com/images/b/13837.jpg

Those are fine for front wheels, but are not reliable for track dropouts, unless you have either a chain tug or tensioner screws built into the dropout.

So besides getting bolt on skewers, how is it accomplished to convert a quick release skewered hub into a bolt on track hub?

It depends on what hub you have.

I think the holding power of a properly tensioned skewer is largely underestimated by the ssfg crowd. I wouldn't send Chris Hoy to the track with them, but for the majority of us they're more than adequate.

depends on the hub, some sealed bearing hubs use axles with steps built into them for the bearings to sit on.

if thats the case you'll have to take out one of your bearings to get the qr axle out, and then reinstall it when you have the new axle.

then theres the easier hub-type:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/coomer/3835594119/in/set-72157621957382887/

So besides getting bolt on skewers, how is it accomplished to convert a quick release skewered hub into a bolt on track hub?

depends on the hub..., some cannot be coverted.

well lets say i have a build that will eventually be riding on the track, and i hear quick releases are not allowed. i could be wrong. maybe that is a rule for high level riding.

and spending money to convert a hub might still be cheaper than buying a track wheelset, or at least gives me more options.



well, i might as well ask:
anything wrong with taking a road wheelset and using a surly fixxer on the back? do those come with bolt on axles? then i would just need to convert the front to bolt on. i dunno. still ignorant regarding actual track riding.

example:

if it is a shimano rear hub, the axle can be changed to a longer axle and use track nuts.

http://www.velosolo.com/pictures/756r1U.jpg

http://www.velosolo.com/shophub.html

well lets say i have a build that will eventually be riding on the track, and i hear quick releases are not allowed. i could be wrong. maybe that is a rule for high level riding.

Quick release skewers are not allowed on the track, however, bolt-on skewers as shown above are allowed. I have used road front wheels for track racing with bolt-on skewers w/o any problems, however, I have not used them in the rear because I don't use chain tugs or have adjuster screws. If you use a chain tug you should be fine and it will be allowed.

thanks trejano!
thats exactly what i was thinking of doing, perhaps using a skewered road front wheel...

http://www.pedalroom.com/p/iro-mark-v-pro-1728_6.jpg

I've got a bolt-on skewer for my front wheel, it's awesome!!!

there is no reason why you can't use a bolt on skewer on the rear of a track bike.

Aside from taking your bike to the track, why even bother making the switch?

Aside from taking your bike to the track, why even bother making the switch?

well lets just say i have a bianchi pista concept frame. in no rush to build it up, but have generally been trolling ebay for a nice wheelset for it.

ideally i would like to be able to bring it to the track to ride, but probably no more than once a month. the track is an hour&half drive. but i have met friends o friends that have expressed interest in going every so often. admittedly i am pretty close to completely ignorant about actual track riding, but im definitely interested in doing so.

soooo i had read somewhere that they dont allow quick release wheelsets on the track. i guess i just assumed that meant you need bolt on track hubs. i didn't know about bolt on skewers.

annnnd thru perusing ebay for light weight wheelsets, ive noticed allot of low weight wheelsets that are quick release....also it seems like when searching for wheelsets, there arnt nearly as many search results if searching for specifically track wheelsets. also it seems like the smaller amount of track specific wheelsets (besides all the "fixay" cheapo wheelsets like weinmanns and whatnot) means those wheelsets command more of a price....

so in my wheelset search it seems opening up my parameters to wheelsets that come with quick release and coverting them with a surly fixxer or whatever i have more to choose from, and at better prices.

like, it seems like i could get just as light a wheelset for even less of a price, even after having to buy a surly fixxer hub thingie and bolt on skewers.


i dunno, basically just opening up my options.


in retrospect, sort of kicking myself for not jumping on all the deals going on for the reynolds recon wheelset. i got outbid on three seperate auctions. then the dealer had 3 sets up for auction, i was thinking i would definitely win one of them, but then they closed 2 of the auctions because they were actually out of stock.

been also looking at mavic ellipses...i can get a barely used last years model from someone for 340....and been looking at the miche pistard, but those dont seem like much better than say velocity deep vs to formula.

i dunno, if anyone has advice that would be appreciated

Keep in mind that the fixxer only works in certain shimano freehubs without having to mod it.It also only replaces the freehub body,leaving you with a wheel that is still dished.Also, putting a fixxer into 130 spaced hub still leaves the hub at 130.Re-spacing and re-dishing a high end wheel(low spokecount,Special spokes)is at least a pita, or depending one the wheel simply not possible.The fixxer is really intended to turn a road bike into a fixed gear,not a geared wheel into a trackwheel.

The fixxer is really intended to turn a road bike into a fixed gear,not a geared wheel into a trackwheel.

This. The fixxer is (IMO) a last-ditch solution when you have an extra geared wheel that you have to make into a fixed wheel. Buying a brand new geared wheelset with QR and a Freehub body to convert to fixed is silly. It's like buying a truck with the intention of slamming it and turning it into a race car. Better off buying what you want to begin with.

your logic makes sense regarding the fixxer, guess i wasn't thinking about dealing with dishing and whatnot.


so whats a good TRACK wheelset that wont cost a grand? ;p

It is easy to convert cup and cone bearing hubs, like Shimano. You just get a new rear axle of an appropriate length and threading. When you are dealing with cartridge bearings, they will often have a hub specific axle with machined steps to retain the bearings and it will not be possible to source a threaded axle to do the conversion.

1) You should ask in the Track forum

2) Spend your money on other things besides a race wheelset. They don't make that big of a difference. For beginners, races are won/lost by seconds and tens of seconds. Race wheels buy you 1/10ths of seconds. Race wheels actually provide the least bang for the buck in performance. A good helmet or shoe booties will make you faster.

3) Having the right equipment will make you faster. Do you have a set of chainrings/cogs?

4) Coaching (even programs you find for free on the Internet) will make you faster.

5) A gym membership combined with the right program will make you faster.

6) Going to the track more often than once a month will make you faster. 1.5 hours drive isn't bad. I just moved. My closest track is 3+ hrs away.

7) Rollers will make people stronger and more efficient which will make you faster.

8) An aero front wheel provides something like 90% of of the (minor) benefit of aero wheels.

9) A good bike fit will make people faster.


I'm not preaching from on high. I had aero wheels in the beginner category races...still got dropped.

Ask in the track forum and I'll help you get squared away.

1) You should ask in the Track forum

2) Spend your money on other things besides a race wheelset. They don't make that big of a difference. For beginners, races are won/lost by seconds and tens of seconds. Race wheels buy you 1/10ths of seconds. Race wheels actually provide the least bang for the buck in performance. A good helmet or shoe booties will make you faster.

3) Having the right equipment will make you faster. Do you have a set of chainrings/cogs?

4) Coaching (even programs you find for free on the Internet) will make you faster.

5) A gym membership combined with the right program will make you faster.

6) Going to the track more often than once a month will make you faster. 1.5 hours drive isn't bad. I just moved. My closest track is 3+ hrs away.

1. will do!
2. makes sense. so i guess i should refer back to 1) and ask there but do you have advice on a good wheelset that would be good for beginning track? miche pistard good enough? mavic ellipse? anything better? bang/bucks?
3. i do. 47-50, 15-18
4. ? friends who have gone before said they signed up for some class and they had an experienced rider teach etiquete, they did mock races or something. im assuming coaching is more involved?
5. like gold's gym? i go there ;p
6. I would LOVE to, but life kind of gets in the way. 4 weekends more or less in the month, and playing soccer, gym, girlfriend, friends, social obligations will probably keep it at once a month.
7. i do spin class twice a week w/ the girlfriend, does that count? ;p but for winter months that sounds like a good idea.
8. good to know....so perhaps i should look into buying a somewhat nicer and used (re: cheaper) lightweight aero front wheel then getting something adequate but cheaper for the rear? i dunno i have seen quite a few very affordable used zipps and other carbon aero rims on ebay, although most tend to be quick release....hence why i started this thread. im thinking now if i see one go for cheap enough i might jump on it then buy a bolt on skewer. just a thought.
9. i havn't been professionally fitted but have done a fit calculator...

anywho thanks for the replies its appreciated!

Coaching is more involved for sure. Learning tactics, pacing you each lap and do workouts on track, such as burnouts.

IMO, before you spend any money on wheels, bars, parts and whatnot, spend the money to get fitted properly to your track bike.

Coaching is more involved for sure. Learning tactics, pacing you each lap and do workouts on track, such as burnouts.

IMO, before you spend any money on wheels, bars, parts and whatnot, spend the money to get fitted properly to your track bike.

what do wheels have to do with fit? arn't they all 700c ;p
seriously though, im curious: when being fitted, are they more or less getting seatpost height, stem length, and crank length fitted to your body? i did a few different fit calculators and had my GF measure me to figure out frame measurements that fit me best...but im assuming fit goes beyond that?

Fitting process is more elaborate than the fitting calculators because it is personalized. You might be recorded on a camera for computer systems to capture your flaws, like if your left leg is bowed out when you pull up, or when your hip is rotated too much forward. It's not just about saddle height, but also saddle set back, which influence how much of your weight is distributed to the rear of the bike and the rotation of your hips which then affects how you pedal. You might find out things you didn't know before, like your right leg is longer than left or something like that.

If you're serious about track, then having your bike fitting should be your highest priority.

1. will do!
2. makes sense. so i guess i should refer back to 1) and ask there but do you have advice on a good wheelset that would be good for beginning track? miche pistard good enough? mavic ellipse? anything better? bang/bucks?
3. i do. 47-50, 15-18
4. ? friends who have gone before said they signed up for some class and they had an experienced rider teach etiquete, they did mock races or something. im assuming coaching is more involved?
5. like gold's gym? i go there ;p
6. I would LOVE to, but life kind of gets in the way. 4 weekends more or less in the month, and playing soccer, gym, girlfriend, friends, social obligations will probably keep it at once a month.
7. i do spin class twice a week w/ the girlfriend, does that count? ;p but for winter months that sounds like a good idea.
8. good to know....so perhaps i should look into buying a somewhat nicer and used (re: cheaper) lightweight aero front wheel then getting something adequate but cheaper for the rear? i dunno i have seen quite a few very affordable used zipps and other carbon aero rims on ebay, although most tend to be quick release....hence why i started this thread. im thinking now if i see one go for cheap enough i might jump on it then buy a bolt on skewer. just a thought.
9. i havn't been professionally fitted but have done a fit calculator...

anywho thanks for the replies its appreciated!

2) Mavic Ellipse are my favorites to recommend. They are great for beginner and intermediate track use and also are great for street. They are clincher.

3) For track your gear progressions (assuming you train or race a lot and get stronger) might go something like this:
48/16 For beginner racing. This might become your warmup gear forever afterward.
48/15 For beginner racing
49/15
50/15

Next season (or if you get strong fast):
47/14
48/14
49/14
45/13 (for fine-tuning)
50/14
46/13

4) That's just an orientation to the track. Not much coaching involved. Look for organized group events at the track. At some tracks those are like $5-10. Some great info there.

5) Yes! Squats or Leg Press whole leg exercises. Not so much with isometric (isolating) exercises like leg extension, leg curl, etc...)

6) Once you get bitten by the race bug, you might start rearranging your life. That's what I did.

7) Spin classes help a lot. But, rollers are better for different reasons.

8) Don't buy any wheels. Use whatever FG wheels you have now. Buy some nice tires (23c) that can be pumped up to at least 120-130PSI.

9) A fit calculator is a good start, but a good fitting by a professional or a friend that knows a lot will go a long way. Do you know where your saddle should be behind your bottom bracket? How about how high your handlebar grips should be for your body type and riding style? What about how high the saddle should be? A 1-2cm change can take you from spinning 120RPM bumpily to 120 smoothly and up to 200rpm.

ok, this is all good info and i appreciate it.

as per wheels, i will be buying some because i want to keep the velocity deep vs i already have on my "street fixay" and have wheels for the pista concept frame i have set aside....mavic ellipses seem like the way to go. i know of a local craigslist for a set of lasts years for 340 in what is described as excellent shape, although i havn't seen them yet.

just curious, how much do professional fittings run? at all feasible to fit yourself with the aid of someone else using google video instructions or is that just nowhere near the same (or possible) ?

Coaching is more involved for sure. Learning tactics, pacing you each lap and do workouts on track, such as burnouts.

IMO, before you spend any money on wheels, bars, parts and whatnot, spend the money to get fitted properly to your track bike.

+1


what do wheels have to do with fit? arn't they all 700c ;p
seriously though, im curious: when being fitted, are they more or less getting seatpost height, stem length, and crank length fitted to your body? i did a few different fit calculators and had my GF measure me to figure out frame measurements that fit me best...but im assuming fit goes beyond that?

We are assuming that you don't have an unlimited bike budget. Any $ you spend on wheels is money that can't be spent on fitting.

Yes, fitting goes beyond that. Imaging putting measurements in a computer and it then mails you a suit. It might fit...or it may be off by 1cm here or there. It's generally best to find a competent person to do it. NOBODY sees the value in a bike fitting and some spend years riding and racing ill-fit bikes. Even after a professional fitting, there may be some changes to be made. Here is a list of variables in your bike fit:
Saddle height
Saddle angle
Saddle fore/aft
Stem length
Stem angle
Stem stack height
Bar width
Bar drop
Bar length
Bar angle
Crank arm length
Cleat fore/aft/left/right position
Cleat angle

All of that is measured in mm and 1/2 degrees. Some of it is based on feel. Some is based on science. Your body might feel right in the wrong position and you'd have to be uncomfortable for a while as it adjusts.

Then all of this changes as your body adjusts and changes.

Once Taylor Phinney was in a race a year or two ago and he crashed and ruined his bike. A teammate of similar stature was nearby and jumped off his bike and handed it to Phinney to continue the race (he was the team leader). Phinney grabbed the bike and rode it for a few miles trying to catch up and try to win then dropped out of the race because the bike wasn't setup for him and he didn't want to get injured. It was probably off by a few mm. But, that's how sensitive things are.



Fitting process is more elaborate than the fitting calculators because it is personalized. You might be recorded on a camera for computer systems to capture your flaws, like if your left leg is bowed out when you pull up, or when your hip is rotated too much forward. It's not just about saddle height, but also saddle set back, which influence how much of your weight is distributed to the rear of the bike and the rotation of your hips which then affects how you pedal. You might find out things you didn't know before, like your right leg is longer than left or something like that.

If you're serious about track, then having your bike fitting should be your highest priority.

+1

ok, this is all good info and i appreciate it.

as per wheels, i will be buying some because i want to keep the velocity deep vs i already have on my "street fixay" and have wheels for the pista concept frame i have set aside....mavic ellipses seem like the way to go. i know of a local craigslist for a set of lasts years for 340 in what is described as excellent shape, although i havn't seen them yet.

just curious, how much do professional fittings run? at all feasible to fit yourself with the aid of someone else using google video instructions or is that just nowhere near the same (or possible) ?

OK. I see what's going on here :)

You want wheels, so buy some wheels. But, don't buy them under the guise of being a better and more competitive track racer. A bike fit costs (ballpark) between $75-150 depending on where you go. Wheels, tires, and tubes are gonna be $400+. The better value is probably in the bike fit. But, hey, it's up to you.

well, it sounds like a very good investment to get fitted correctly then.

ill have to see which LBS's around me do it. Will getting fitted also take road vs track riding into account? do you need to get fitted someplace that does track fitting specifically? i just realize ive seen people fitted at LBS's but it seemed to always be for the road.

and i know i should just go check out LBS's quotes....but what is ballpark for fitting?


anyway all the info has been awesome, i know allot more now than i did an hour ago.

OK. I see what's going on here :)

You want wheels, so buy some wheels. But, don't buy them under the guise of being a better and more competitive track racer. A bike fit costs (ballpark) between $75-150 depending on where you go. Wheels, tires, and tubes are gonna be $400+. The better value is probably in the bike fit. But, hey, it's up to you.

yup :)
well, its looking like i will definitely be going to get fitted at some point, it sounds like a good idea....
and yah, i just want wheels on the bike, im definitely not thinking getting some expensive carbon wheels are going to make me a superfast-speedracer ;p

so i think i might go look at the mavic ellipses then. i will be riding this on the road as well as track, because the few times i get to the track wont be enough to suffice my need to finally ride this bike im building haha

well, it sounds like a very good investment to get fitted correctly then.

ill have to see which LBS's around me do it. Will getting fitted also take road vs track riding into account? do you need to get fitted someplace that does track fitting specifically? i just realize ive seen people fitted at LBS's but it seemed to always be for the road.

and i know i should just go check out LBS's quotes....but what is ballpark for fitting?


anyway all the info has been awesome, i know allot more now than i did an hour ago.

Ask around for the most experienced guy in the shop then ask him his thoughts on road vs track fittings. If he says something to the effect of, "It depends on what type of track racing you are gonna do..." then he's your guy.

Endurance racers tend to go for a fit that is similar to their road bikes. They use road bars. They are higher up and sit further back in the saddles for comfort in longer races. This takes the weight off of the arms and shoulders. They give up a bit of aerodynamics and in-the-saddle sprint power. Sprinters tend to have the saddle as close as legally possible to the BB which allows them to lower the bars and get lower. But, this loads up lots of weight on the arms, shoulders, and hands. But, it's OK because sprint races (match sprints, keirin, short scratch races, etc...) are only a few minutes long so by the time it's too uncomfortable, the race is over. Sprinters use "track" bars because they allow the forearms to clear during standing starts, plus they tend to be stiffer/stronger also for the same.