Touring - Carbon Frame for "Loaded" Touring?

Carbon frame bikes seem popular with folks who race road bikes, or like to look like someone who races road bikes.

But, most of the road bikes that I have seen that are designed for "heavy", or "loaded" touring seem to hve steel frames, and the Cannondale touring road bikes also appear popular.

Has anyone on the forum done "loaded" touring (tours with a rider/gear/contents total of well over 200 pounds) on a road bike with a carbon main frame?

If you have NOT done so, do you know a rider who has done so?

Why, when steel frames are so UNpopular with the "racing" crowd, do steel frames remain so well liked by the riders who do loaded touring?

One word. Durable. Carbon is used in racing because it's light and doesn't have to carry the load. Carbon won't handle the abuse that steel will.

Also, from what I understand, if you were to break a steel frame (unlikely) you could have it welded back together most anywhere. If you broke a carbon frame ... well, I guess you could try duct tape.

Also, from what I understand, if you were to break a steel frame (unlikely) you could have it welded back together most anywhere. If you broke a carbon frame ... well, I guess you could try duct tape.

thats bull. welding a steel bike would be sketchy as hell. would you load 50 pounds of cargo plus yourself and go 40 mph down a mountain on a frame that some hack welded together with a blowtorch? ****, I would trust the duct-taped carbon frame first.

and markw, carbon is actually stronger then steel. the reason its so light is that it is stronger so less can be used. theres no reason why, from an engineering standpoint, that carbon couldn't be made strong enough to tour with.

there is one thing you'd have to overcome though, is the problem of delamination from scratching it. when deep scratches in the carbon actually tear the carbon "weave" it weakens the carbon a lot. this means that it would be difficult to attach things like racks and whatnot to the frame. You'd need a lot of "braze-ons" and custom racks, probably, becuase I wouldn't clamp anything on a carbon frame.

This problem could be overcome, and I think that if it was, then carbon would be a good material to tour on, stiff enough to bear the weight of a load, but still smooth with the vibration damping of carbon.

Field repairs with carbon are (according to some) pretty easy. Just take some epoxy resin and a carbon ribbon or patch.

Nobody makes a carbon touring frame. That tells me all I need to know.

A carbon frame can be made strong enough for touring. Consider that there are several CF tandem manufacturers. The reason we haven't seen CF tourers so far is more a marketting and public perception thing than a technological one.

If you must use a carbon racing frame, use a two-wheeled trailer.

thats bull. welding a steel bike would be sketchy as hell. would you load 50 pounds of cargo plus yourself and go 40 mph down a mountain on a frame that some hack welded together with a blowtorch? ****, I would trust the duct-taped carbon frame first.

and markw, carbon is actually stronger then steel. the reason its so light is that it is stronger so less can be used. theres no reason why, from an engineering standpoint, that carbon couldn't be made strong enough to tour with.

there is one thing you'd have to overcome though, is the problem of delamination from scratching it. when deep scratches in the carbon actually tear the carbon "weave" it weakens the carbon a lot. this means that it would be difficult to attach things like racks and whatnot to the frame. You'd need a lot of "braze-ons" and custom racks, probably, becuase I wouldn't clamp anything on a carbon frame.

This problem could be overcome, and I think that if it was, then carbon would be a good material to tour on, stiff enough to bear the weight of a load, but still smooth with the vibration damping of carbon.

What about comfort? Is there a carbon frame that offers the comfort of a low Reynolds chromoly? You could probably use it for light touring but there really is no reason to use Lance's bike for touring anymore than you would buy a Trek 520 for racing.

My touring bicycle has a foco steel frame and a carbon fork. The bike has been through one major tour and lots of local runs to the grocery store. The fork has a few surface scratches, but that's par for the course. The bike is a pleasure to ride, and the fork is holding up fine.

The bike was designed and built by Hugh Black of True North Cycles, who hand- crafts bikes from steel, aluminum, titanium, and carbon. See: http://www.truenorthcycles.com. His touring bicycles are stunning.

Alan

Again, the carbon will not handle the abuse. A good scratch in carbon can cause catastrophic failure. Strong as steel, yes, as durable, no. Don't get me wrong, I've ridden Trek 5200's and those are NICE, however, I've also seen carbon parts fail. And no I wouldn't want a hack to weld a steel frame either. It will just give me warm fuzzies to know that if I missed a scratch or gouge in the paint of my steel frame it's probably not going to break. But if I picked something up and gouged a carbon chainstay without realizing it, it could and probably would fail under a touring load.

I have seen a carbon frame brake near the botom braket from pulling a lightly loaded trailer.

Why should anyone worry about the lightness of a bike/frame when 20, maybe 30, kilos are hanging from the racks?
I guess loaded tourers are made of steel because this material has been tested over decades.
Do you consider 12/13 kilos of frame and components a heavy bike? Come on...

Why should anyone worry about the lightness of a bike/frame when 20, maybe 30, kilos are hanging from the racks?

...

Do you consider 12/13 kilos of frame and components a heavy bike? Come on...

You have a good point. Bicycles, even steel bicycles, are lighter today than they were, say 15 or 20 years ago. My 1985 Miyata 1000 weighs about 28 lbs (13 kg). I have never weighed my foco steel 2004 True North touring bike, but I am guessing it weighs 7 lbs (3 kg) less. The True North's fork is carbon, but had it been steel, my new bike would still be 20% lighter than my old one.

I was impressed by how light my Surly LHT felt. I was expecting a heavier frame. It's just 5lb 7oz in 62cm. I'm guessing it will build into about a 23-25lb bike.

Have you considered different geometry? If I had to have carbon fiber to tour on, I'd use a modified MTB, rather than a road bike. My first touring bike was going to be my Trek MTB(8700zx)-it's carbon fiber, bonded to aluminum w/a chromo fork. I found a great deal on a used raleigh road tourer and used that instead.

thats bull. welding a steel bike would be sketchy as hell. would you load 50 pounds of cargo plus yourself and go 40 mph down a mountain on a frame that some hack welded together with a blowtorch? ****, I would trust the duct-taped carbon frame first.

and markw, carbon is actually stronger then steel. the reason its so light is that it is stronger so less can be used. theres no reason why, from an engineering standpoint, that carbon couldn't be made strong enough to tour with.

there is one thing you'd have to overcome though, is the problem of delamination from scratching it. when deep scratches in the carbon actually tear the carbon "weave" it weakens the carbon a lot. this means that it would be difficult to attach things like racks and whatnot to the frame. You'd need a lot of "braze-ons" and custom racks, probably, becuase I wouldn't clamp anything on a carbon frame.

This problem could be overcome, and I think that if it was, then carbon would be a good material to tour on, stiff enough to bear the weight of a load, but still smooth with the vibration damping of carbon.


Look, before you respond so quickly and authoratively, think about it. I have an expensive steel touring bike. If my frame developed a small crack after a crash, the steel tubing would hold up long enough for me to find a qualified welder who could fix the bike. People all around the world can weld steel. Since my bike is lugged, if I had the luxury to do so, I could have the tube replaced. Despite all the techno-plastic hype of carbon, if it fails at all, it will fail catastrophically. Not over a duration of time, right away. And you may decide to duct tape your cracked carbon frame, but would I trust it the same way I would trust steel while riding through Chile, or West Bengal, or the dusty rural roads of Vietnam? No way.

Additionally, if I was a frame manufacturer designing and building loaded touring bikes, and somebody wanted a carbon frame, absolutely demanded it, unless I was paid an exorbitant sum I would not warranty it. Steel is the only material manufacturers have enough confidence in that they will offer 25 year warranties. If I was a customer doing loaded touring (not credit card touring) that kind of thing would deter me from buying carbon.

There are many attributes to consider when choosing the best frame material for a given kind of cycling, and there are good reasons why experienced builders do not use carbon for touring frames. You give an excellent one yourself, in your reference to the effect of a scratch in the carbon material. Perhaps the plastics industry will develop something that accomodates all the needs of a loaded touring bike, but until they do, it would be unwise to use carbon frames for touring, and unwise to suggest to someone that they can.