Fifty Plus (50+) - Why is the woman in the back?

On my ride today before the wind really came up there were a bunch of tandem bikes on the trail. All of them were couples, man in front and woman in the back. When couples were traveling together the same seemed to be true, man in front and woman behind. Seems odd the woman should always be behind.


Any ideas why?

The guy looks better with bugs in his teeth than the woman?

It is MUCH easier to engineer a tandem to have the stoker be low and light. That would usually be the woman. I didn't fancy the idea of riding cheek-by-jowl all day, so my tandem can go both ways. That is, it is rigid enough for my 6'2" 200# hubby to be stoker while I'm captain. There is a weight penalty for this flexibility but it is well worth paying. I can't imagine not being able to see where I am going most of the time.

The way Tandems are made- unless you get a custom made frame- The rear compartment has a shorter cockpit than the front- hence the shorter rider is on the back. I have seen Females in the pilot position but that is exceptional. On top of that it does take a lot of upper body strength to control a Tandem so it is normally the Bigger- heavier rider that will be in charge of steering.

As to females always being towards the rear in solo group riding- I would put it down to politeness. The Macho man will always try to shield the female rider from the wind and traffic-----------Providing he can catch and overtake her.

The way Tandems are made- unless you get a custom made frame- The rear compartment has a shorter cockpit than the front- hence the shorter rider is on the back. I have seen Females in the pilot position but that is exceptional. On top of that it does take a lot of upper body strength to control a Tandem so it is normally the Bigger- heavier rider that will be in charge of steering.

As to females always being towards the rear in solo group riding- I would put it down to politeness. The Macho man will always try to shield the female rider from the wind and traffic-----------Providing he can catch and overtake her.

As someone who's stoker outweighs me by 70#, if the stoker is a skilled, steady cyclist who trusts his captain, steering a tandem is no more difficult than controlling a half-bike (it does help if the stoker keeps his hands largely unloaded and towards the center). However, if the stoker is a bit of a wild-child (like my 215# son), it's a bit more trying. One real advantage of having a stoker who can see over the captain is the ability of both riders to work together to control the bike's direction. That really reduces the effort involved in otherwise difficult maneuvers.

On my ride today before the wind really came up there were a bunch of tandem bikes on the trail. All of them were couples, man in front and woman in the back. When couples were traveling together the same seemed to be true, man in front and woman behind. Seems odd the woman should always be behind.


Any ideas why?

In relation to the singles, what you saw may have been just a snapshot. There are times when I am out in front of Machka, and there are times when she is in front of me. At the moment, I am generally the faster rider.


As someone who's stoker outweighs me by 70#, if the stoker is a skilled, steady cyclist who trusts his captain, steering a tandem is no more difficult than controlling a half-bike (it does help if the stoker keeps his hands largely unloaded and towards the center). However, if the stoker is a bit of a wild-child (like my 215# son), it's a bit more trying. One real advantage of having a stoker who can see over the captain is the ability of both riders to work together to control the bike's direction. That really reduces the effort involved in otherwise difficult maneuvers.
Often (but not always) the stoker is the pilot's partner who may not be as fortunate as you to have developed the riding skills. Because often (but not always) they have rarely ridden a single any significant distance to develop those skills. Often (but not always) they are happy to accede the demands of bike control as well as observation responsibilities to the male. Often (but not always) the difference in size, fitness and riding skill mean the handling of the bike goes to the person with greater strength.

One solution to the OP's questions is to stop and talk to the participants on both observations.

Mrs. Grouch and I have ridden tandems together since 1976 so we've got a lot of years experience. During that time I could probably count on one hand the number of tandem teams we've seen with the woman in front. (My daughter and her husband are one, by the way, he's legally blind.)

In most cases the reason a couple buys a tandem is because they want to ride together but aren't evenly matched physically. Consequently, whichever rider has the better bike skills takes the captain position. Among the tandem teams that we've personally known, the male partner either has the better bike skills or the female partner makes him feel like he has better skills.

On my ride today before the wind really came up there were a bunch of tandem bikes on the trail. All of them were couples, man in front and woman in the back. When couples were traveling together the same seemed to be true, man in front and woman behind. Seems odd the woman should always be behind.


Any ideas why?

Because....behind every successful man is a strong woman. :)

Genetic predisposition. If you say women are generally smaller, that's genetic predisposition. There are behavioral genetic predispositions that figure in as well. There are cultural influences of course, but these are often just stereotypifications of genetic predisposition.

Vive la difference!

Any ideas why?

So she can do her nails without having to hold the bars, of course.



Ohh. No. Not the face. Oww, that hurt. No, enough now. Owww. Put down the mallet. Owww I was just .... Owww OOOf

Does this have anything to do with the thread DF started?

Maybe for the same reason that when I see a couple in a car the male is usually driving.

Pretty simple for us. We love to ride together plus, my wife doesn't like the mechanical aspects of riding - shifting, braking, etc. She can get a great workout plus enjoy the scenery. She points out things I would never see. Great combination.

There are a number of valid and plausible reasons for the dominant configuration in the posts, above: easier to design, males unwilling to give up power, males usually more experienced, women more trusting (or braver!), better aerodynamics(?), but I do think that the greater the difference in size, the more it makes sense to have the physically stronger individual up front. The tandem is no more work than a single in the flat, downhill, at moderate effort levels, but when we're climbing slowly at our physical limit I'm getting quite an upper body workout and I think a 100 lb. captain might have a problem with a 200 lb. stoker climbing at lower speeds. Also, when turning I don't need help from the stoker, just someone (i.e., my DW), who stays balanced. I also find there are a number of circumstances where I'm applying "make-up power": cresting a hill, in a paceline, etc. Might be harder for a small captain to do this, but this is more a defect in my riding style than a requirement for the captain.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IXSpjcXQk4M/S410PVJHc3I/AAAAAAAAAuA/ePe4WWwFpOI/s400/Bicycle_two_1886%5B1%5D.jpg

On the tandems of old,
The gentlemen I'm told
Followed where good manners led.

For when they went for a ride,
They sat side-by-side,
Or put the lady ahead.

But they were men, too,
Right through and through,
And I doubt they cut us slack;

For why, do you suppose,
Once we got 'em in tight clothes,
We put the ladies in the back?

The heavier rider goes in the front to optimize weight distribution. The front position is closer to the tandem's center of mass, so putting the heavier rider in front improves the bike's handling. Men are usually heavier than women; tandem couples are usually pretty fit. So in a population of tandem couples, the number of tandems with women in front probably reflects the percentage of women in this fit population who are heavier than their male partners.

On a track tandem, the guy with the most experience always goes in front! Amongst tandem couples, the guy usually has more riding experience, and almost always more racing/close quarters bike handling experience. The driver has to be very difficult to initimidate, since situations will arise where decisive action has to be taken, and the driver has ALL the responsibility for what happens (Rule #1 - the stoker never makes mistakes).

L.

If you were a woman on a tandem, would you want a guy slobbering down your back for the whole ride? :innocent:

When we ride our tandem the female captain is in the back and the male pilot is in the front. I may steer the thing but I know who is in charge.

Because men drive without stopping to ask for directions. Women are natural back-seat drivers.

If we had a R-tandem, (someday), I'd be in the front cause, I weigh 100lbs. more than my wife. Now riding separate bikes, "SHE's" usually in front as I "Ride Her Pace", when we ride together! If I left her in the dust all time, since I'm the faster rider, she'd probably give up bicycling. That and to be honest, I kind enjoy her pace, you get to actually "SEE" the world your riding in. The only time I pass her is going up steep hills, then I wait at the top of the hill and she takes the lead again. May seem strange but it works for us! :)

If we had a R-tandem, (someday), I'd be in the front cause, I weigh 100lbs. more than my wife. Now riding separate bikes, "SHE's" usually in front as I "Ride Her Pace", when we ride together! If I left her in the dust all time, since I'm the faster rider, she'd probably give up bicycling. That and to be honest, I kind enjoy her pace, you get to actually "SEE" the world your riding in. The only time I pass her is going up steep hills, then I wait at the top of the hill and she takes the lead again. May seem strange but it works for us! :)
+1 on all counts - even the "passing on hills part".

+1 on all counts - even the "passing on hills part".

The only reason I "pass her" on steep hills, is that I have this "mental thing" about NOT using the "small chain wheel" (30T), unless I'm either pulling a full load in the "utility trailer" or packed heavy for "touring"! I run a 53/42/30, my wife is set up with a 42/32/22 and can "SPIN" up hills in her "Middle chain wheel", where I'm having to the "MASH", even with a 32T rear cog or "run over her". FYI. :)

The only reason I "pass her" on steep hills, is that I have this "mental thing" about NOT using the "small chain wheel" (30T)

Sounds like you are a "Traditional 50+ male" to me.

The women in the groups I ride with are definitely -not- likely to be seen towards the back. In fact, I think there is a certain "feminine machismo", that causes some women cyclists to make darn sure they aren't following the men around.

Maybe for the same reason that when I see a couple in a car the male is usually driving.

My wife and I don't have a tandem [yet], and usually "ride her pace" when together. It's nicer for her, and I don't mind taking TWICE as long to cover the same distance I'd usually cover. :innocent:

Interestingly, my wife prefers that I drive - simply because she believes it's my role to do so. She doesn't like the appearance of a male in the passenger seat - having his wife drive him around...thinks he's shirking in some way.

If I want to ride in the passenger seat (say, to eat an apple while we leave on errands), I'll ask if she minds driving. She'll always agree to do so, but expects me to drive otherwise.

It's just a custom we've developed. May not work for anyone else.

PG

When we ride our tandem the female captain is in the back and the male pilot is in the front. I may steer the thing but I know who is in charge.

I tell my wife the same thing.

Our tandem is a Lamborghini. She likes to tell people "the engine is in the rear in a Lamborghini."

When my wife and I were in Ireland last summer we saw a tour group of about 30 tandems go roaring by us like a freight train and in every case, the male was in the front. While the elevations in the mountains there aren't that high, the slopes are quite steep in a lot of places so placing the heavier rider near the center of gravity of the bike makes a lot of sense.

Enter the 'Counterpoint' stoker is in a recumbent seat in the front .
steering, etc., is an upright diamond frame , in the center - ,back.

May not resolve the drool-slobber problem that way though.
but the lounge chair position may be compensation..

I always thought the men convinced less technical women that they were drafting in the back seat, so they wouldn't have to work as hard.

For us it's real simple. My wife never learned to ride a bicycle. She likes the tandem though

Men tend to get distracted watching a fit woman in form-fitting clothes, so they put them in the back.

As a very short TV actor who wore glasses for his part would say: "Very Interesting".

Back in the "Old Days" when one could steer a tandem from both the front and the back like this nice old Colson...

http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/bicycle166/526.htm

......the Gents would proudly ride down the street their sweetheart up in front.

194669
Have seen very few tandems with female as pilot and male as stoker (except fo blind guys).
Have seen a couple tandem duos that were both female and a few that were both male.
Usually the male is the stronger/taller/heavier rider and the female is smaller/lighter (and sometimes stronger) rider.
Production tandems are 'generally' built for taller person up front . . . 'generally' with couples the male is talle/heavierr than the female. That's why, 'generally', male pilots a tandem.
Have ridden singles and tandems for the past 40 years. Yes, there a few very fast ladies that when riding a sngle don't mind at all doing their share of pulling the paceline!

Men tend to get distracted watching a fit woman in form-fitting clothes, so they put them in the back.

This; can't tell you how many times I've enjoyed the thought of being stoker on a tandem with Halle Berry.

Not always the way it was.

194906

In case of the 2 old tandems above, the 'steersman' sat in the back . . .

Until 1896, it appears from the following article that all tandems were built with the drop frame portion of the bike in front, and that moving the woman (or smaller rider) to the back was viewed as revolutionary. And the weight of this tandem was less than 40 pounds! You have to scroll down a bit to find reference to the tandem.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50E10F73C5F1B738DDDAF0A94D9405B8685F0D3