Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Shoulder Pain.

Went on a long ride last night and my shoulders (which are usually a point of muscle tension anyway) are in pain right now. Nothing too wild, they just hurt.

Right now I have stock drops (don't like the shape), and I know I want something else. Tried my friend's flat bars and liked them, but it's not on my bike. I also want to raise my seat but I feel like being higher will only strain my shoulder point a bit more.

Don't have the budget to be changing my handlebars whenever I'm sore the next day, so I want to settle in on what handlebars I may wanna grab in the future.

Just wanna know what has worked for y'all, preferences, suggestions. Had my bike for a few months and now I'm really focusing on the tweaks that'll make my ride more comfortable. ( I know every component makes a difference just trying to work with what I have)



Peace.

I noticed having some pains in my shoulder and back when riding with cut bull horns. Always being in a humped over aggressive position didn't cut it for me in long rides. I switched to riser bars and haven't had any problems at all, being in a higher body position seemed to fix the problem and not much of a difference in the speeds I can reach.

try risers with some nice setback, a little more upright position can't hurt.

The type of handlebars doesn't matter.

The positional relationship of the saddle to bottom bracket to handlebar matters.

Some shoulder pain comes from having to crank your neck up in order to see forward.

Bars too low or too far forward will cause this neck cranking.

If you can raise your bars by flipping your stem (or raising your quill stem), this will give you a no cost test of your handlebar position.

If you raise your bars and get any relief from your shoulder pain, then you can justify experimenting with stem length, stem rise and saddle position.

The type of bar doesn't matter.

The type of bar doesn't matter.

ahhh but a riser bar would do exactly what you are suggesting........

The type of handlebars doesn't matter.

I would have to disagree considering that different types of bars create different hand positions, which can directly affect the position of - and stress placed upon - your shoulders while riding.

Always being in a humped over aggressive position didn't cut it for me in long rides.

It does take some core strength to maintain lower position.

Op, you should also be conscious of your elbows, if you keep them locked then everything around your shoulders and neck takes the shock that would normally be absorbed by bent elbows. locking you elbows can be caused by too much reach, you can make a temporary fix by raising the handle bar - like Cox said

The type of handlebars doesn't matter.

I disagree also. I went from drops to Soma Sparrow bars and that relieved all the pain in my wrists and tension in my neck/back. Different bars make a huge difference.

Great answers, a lot of which I wanted to hear. This is really what I want to learn; tweaking my bike for total comfort.

Small update: I tilted the bars a bit downward, felt a bit better, but still just not ergonomically sensible. Also, shoulder tension happens when I stand up. Today I purchased a Brooks B17 (which has to be placed on right, and I'm sure it's not on right) & I know that changes the equation significantly. I'm willing to put the time & effort into fine tuning my machine: can't see it any other way.

I appreciate the help, fellow riders!

Ken Cox: You make great points as far as the positional relationship, I guess I focused a bit too much on the handlebar aspect of the situation (although I know they aren't great). So I can actually flip my stem over? How do I raise my (WTF is a) quill stem? It makes sense to me for them to be higher. They may be too low, and/or too far - can't put my finger on it yet.

vw addict & Thebrad20: I like risers, they feel good on the bikes I've ridden. For some reason I'm just not too attracted to them. Besides the way they look, (and the many bikes I ride with that have them) I like having a different place to put my hands, so drops, or bullhorns is what I'm aiming for. Not completely shooting down risers, though, if they're gonna be my 100% comfort landing.

Hairnet: GREAT point, man! I will be conscious of my elbow locking, for I do it both sitting down and standing up.

Keep the replies coming. Great stuff. Any other members that have comfort related issues feel free to use this thread.

The type of handlebars doesn't matter.

Where your hands fit in space, in relation to your saddle and bottom bracket, matters.

Almost any kind of handle bar can put your hands in the right place, in terms of height and reach.

His shoulder problem has to do with his body organization and not with the type of bars.

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Regarding stems, some types of bikes have a stem that clamps on to the steerer tube (threadless), and some types of bikes have quill stems (threaded), in which the stem looks like a continuation of the steerer tube.

Quill stem: http://www.businesscycles.com/tstem-nitto.htm

Threadless: http://aebike.com/product/ritchey-classic-threadless-90mm-31.8-polished-silver-sku-sm4875-qc30.htm

If you have a threadless stem, it probably has an angle (usually about six degrees).

You can loosen the bolts that hold it in place and flip it over.

This will give you a little extra height.

It won't solve your problem, but, if it improves your situation, it will give a clue as to why your shoulders hurt.

You most probably have a neck problem because you have to raise your head and crank your neck in order to see your path.

This compresses the openings through which the nerves serving your shoulders, arms and hands pass.

Different people have different symptoms when this happens, such as numb fingers, etc.

However, shoulder pain almost always means a cranked neck.

Raise your handle bars by the easiest and cheapest method you can, and see if this give you any relief.

If it does give you relief, you have several cheap options, mostly involving the placement of your saddle and either raising your threaded quill stem or replacing your threadless stem with one that fits you better.

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Bike fit for riding on the street...

People ride with their hands low and their backs level because it gives them an aerodynamic advantage.

This position also compresses the angle between their torso and their hips, making their spin mechanically less efficient.

For that reason, track and time trial riders move their handle bars far forward and their saddle far forward in order to open up the angle between their torso and their hips, thus recovering some (but not all) of their mechanical efficiency.

However, this places an enormous amount of weight on the hands and requries an unnatural head and neck position in order to see forward.

For riding on the street, in all conditions, one has the option of a more upright positioin, somewhat similar to that of geared bike road racers.

You can find the optimum position for your body with the following method:

1. sit on a hard chair on a hard floor in stocking feet;

2. slide your sit bones towards the front of the chair and slide your heels back as far as you comfortably can with your feet flat on the floor;

3. make a loose fist with your hands, reach forward with your hands for the handle bars, and begin to sloooowly stand up;

4. at the very moment your sit bones barely break contact with the chair, note the angle of your torso and the position of your hands;

5. if you put your handle bars and your saddle in relationship to your position, above, you would probably notice that the point of contact between your hands and the handle bars occurs about one inch below a level line extending forward from the nose of our saddle;

6. if a friend helps you, you can measure the horizontal and vertical distance between your hips and your hands.

Just look at the torso angle of road racers when the ride on the horns (and they ride on the horns most of the time).

This road racer angle seems very erect to track and time trial riders, but it works on the every day street better than the back-level torso angle so fashionable right now.

The type of handlbar only changes your wrist position.

Some people like palms level, like on a mountain bike, and some people like palms vertical, like on the horns.

I like palms vertical.

It doesn't matter.

The veritcal and horizontal distance of your hands from your hips matters.

http://www.legaljuice.com/yawn%20big%20funny.jpg

It does take some core strength to maintain lower position.


Agreed! A bike really is a full body workout. From what I have learned is that you shouldn't have lots of pressure on your hands/ bars. Enough to grip your bars, but you shouldn't be resting your upper body weight on your hands. You should be using your core to slightly hold up your arms/ upper body with your arms slightly bent while riding.

Also, seat position will affect your shoulder pain too. If the nose of your seat is pointed too far down, it can make your body slightly slip off the seat, making you counter act that with more pressure on your hands / arms to keep your body up.

All in all, if you have your elbows locked holding up your upper body weight, you will have some upper shoulder pain.

So, like mentioned, make sure you keep your elbows slightly bent, use your core to keep some weight off your hands / arms, and check seat position.

If any of my info is off and / or hard to understand please let me know.

.Chris

Also, seat position will affect your shoulder pain too. If the nose of your seat is pointed too far down, it can make your body slightly slip off the seat, making you counter act that with more pressure on your hands / arms to keep your body up.

OP, just want to add you might also try shifting your seat to the rear a scosh. That should help take some weight off your upper body--if that is the problem.

I'll third the emphasis on keeping your upper body relaxed. But, if you're willing to put in time and effort, you might also consider getting yourself fitted, which is arguably a better alternative to listening to us ramble.

op post a picture of your bike

Why make it personal?

Nothing to relevant to say?

Just discuss the subject.

Agreed! A bike really is a full body workout.
It does nothing for your core and upper body


From what I have learned is that you shouldn't have lots of pressure on your hands/ bars. Enough to grip your bars, but you shouldn't be resting your upper body weight on your hands. You should be using your core to slightly hold up your arms/ upper body with your arms slightly bent while riding.


good for rollers

It does nothing for your core and upper body



Although I agree with you when I say it is not a full core workout. I will say that it takes a little something to maintain proper riding posture for long rides. Doing that overtime will in fact help with a little bit of core strength. Again, as i said, it is not a full core workout, but to say it does 'nothing' I feel is a bit much. It will surely do something over time...even if in very small amounts.




I'll third the emphasis on keeping your upper body relaxed. But, if you're willing to put in time and effort, you might also consider getting yourself fitted, which is arguably a better alternative to listening to us ramble.


OP, although I notice your emphasis on not having a huge budget, if the problem persists, like ScottRock said, you may want to save some change and get fitted for the bike.


.Chris

Why make it personal?

Nothing to relevant to say?

Just discuss the subject.

KC you are taking it personal, you have to remember that in ssfg irrelevance is revelant.

I'm planning on going and getting fitted like you all recommend, but of course here to learn on how I can improve on it. And I don't mind reading the ramble.

If a mod would assist me and change the post title 'Help Fitting My Bike For Comfort'

It rained today, and I believe the best way to get a good opinion is to photograph myself on the bike and post how I am riding.

Thanks for the responses.

It rained today, and I believe the best way to get a good opinion is to photograph myself on the bike and post how I am riding.



Thats what I was goign to suggest. I had some wrist pain on my last bike, and had a friend take a picture of me riding. I realized how hunched I was, and the super-sharp break angle of my wrists. New stem, and then no pain.

Then again, that bike was stolen and I moved on to something better fitting.

This thread is TL;DR, but I skimmed some of Ken's posts.

It is the positional relationship of your hands to the bottom bracket and saddle that matter, but different bars will directly change that positional relationship. So, everyone in this thread wins.

Risers often provide sweep back that I've never seen on drop bars, and have only seen on one set of bullhorns. Risers can also be cut to a wide variety of widths, while drops and bullhorns are more or less limited to a specified range. On the other hand, bullhorns and drops/drops with hoods provide numerous riding positions that let you switch it up if one position tires you out, while risers and flat bars pretty much only provide on riding position.

vw addict & Thebrad20: I like risers, they feel good on the bikes I've ridden. For some reason I'm just not too attracted to them. Besides the way they look, (and the many bikes I ride with that have them) I like having a different place to put my hands, so drops, or bullhorns is what I'm aiming for. Not completely shooting down risers, though, if they're gonna be my 100% comfort landing.

http://www.somafab.com/bar_lateriser8.jpg

+

http://www.origin-8.com/images/new_400/33617.jpg

+

http://www.westernbikeworks.com/productimages/images450/cgscr-1.jpg

Although that is exponentially uglier than just risers...

As far as getting fitted,while having it done at a competent shop is best, some online calculators are a decent alternative.I used the competitive cyclist one and it worked really well.I also like that it gives you three fit options with the french fit being the best for street/city riding IMHO.

The type of handlebar does not matter.

Where your hands are does matter.

For example, you see guys running Nitto B123 (deepest drop around) and they ride on the tops...because they like their hands there. That's when people started using flat bars then risers...because it was more comfortable. Now if you take some risers and flip them over and use a negative stem which ultimately puts your hands down near the tire, then they aren't so comfortable anymore.

A standard track geometry is not a comfortable position. Don't get a bike with a real track geometry (AKA a sprint geometry) and use drop bars and expect it to be comfortable. It just will not happen.

Comfort comes when the hands are even with or higher than the saddle. As your hands (in whatever bars god thinks you deserve) go below the saddle, the riding position becomes less comfortable over time.

A sprint position is comfortable (well tolerable) for around 5 minutes tops.

http://www.somafab.com/bar_lateriser8.jpg

+

http://www.origin-8.com/images/new_400/33617.jpg

+

http://www.westernbikeworks.com/productimages/images450/cgscr-1.jpg

=

http://road.bike198.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/fsa-k-wing.jpg

Which is probably the way to go.

Where your hands are does matter.

Which is precisely why the type of handlebar matters - because different handlebars provide different places to put your hands.

=

http://road.bike198.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/fsa-k-wing.jpg

Which is probably the way to go.

Nice. I've never seen those before. Drops with sweepback and rise and hoods would be the ultimate bar, so all those are missing are the sweepback. And they're probably $$ as heck. :(

Nitto Noodle has the sweepback

Which is precisely why the type of handlebar matters - because different handlebars provide different places to put your hands.

Show me a standard handlebar and I can show you that same bar (or similar) installed in various heights proving that the bar isn't the problem or solution.

Nitto Noodle has the sweepback

Troof. What a silly name, haha.

I mean, bullhorns should work, right?


...but not if you install them like this:

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=194647&d=1300839104
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=194648&d=1300839107
194647194648

carleton - I'm stepping in what you're laying down but with so many different types of handlebars available, ruling out a certain kind out as "standard" is ridiculous.

OP - that's you're problem right there. Your bars aren't "standard" enough.

carleton - I'm stepping in what you're laying down but with so many different types of handlebars available, ruling a certain kind out as "standard" is ridiculous.

OP - that's you're problem right there. Your bars aren't "standard".

No, my point was that I can't find photos of some obscure handlebar installed at various heights. But, I can probably find drop bars, track drops, bullhorns, etc... installed at different heights where people wanted either more comfort or more aero.

The handlebars aren't he problem...or the solution. It's where they are installed that is the problem and the solution.

Nitto Noodle has the sweepback

And provide a hand position not found on other drop bars with no sweep.

And provide a hand position not found on other drop bars with no sweep.

That is an awesome bar with lots of hand positions. But, my assertion is that if it is installed in a low position, the neck/shoulder pain will probably still be there.

real track geometry (AKA a sprint geometry)
Thank you! Track geometry is such a generic term.

...and pretty much this:


The type of handlebars doesn't matter.

Where your hands fit in space, in relation to your saddle and bottom bracket, matters.


What kinds of bars don't matter. For instance, if a person is using a non-set back seatpost with a the saddle slammed all the way forwar, putting a set of risers will not get rid his shoulders pain he is in because he is still putting WAY too much weight on both his arms and wrists.

What kind of shoes don't matter then either. We should all be equally as comfortable walking in the same shoe, regardless of the fact that all of our feet and bodies are different.

*edited

What kind of shoes don't matter then either. We should all be equally as comfortable wearing the same shoe.

What kind of shoe doesn't matter as much as saddle height in terms of knee pain :)

People wear sneakers, loafers, sandles, road cycling shoes, MTB shoes, etc... all comfortably if the saddle is the proper height.

all comfortably if the saddle is the proper height.
I've been messing with my saddle height for awhile, I think I've been riding it too high.

May I ask what you and Scrod's inseams and saddle height (saddle to bb) are?

I've been messing with my saddle height for awhile, I think I've been riding it too high.

May I ask what you and Scrod's inseams and saddle height (saddle to bb) are?

No, you may not.

...because our numbers don't matter to you. 1cm in either direction can make a noticeable difference. Also, clothing, shoes, insoles, cleat type, pedals, saddle height (from rails to top of the padding) all play a factor. I've mentioned previously that I've had two different pairs of cycling shoes that required a 1cm saddle height adjustment if I used one or the other pair.

Also, some people are heel-droppers and some are toe-dippers and others are neutral in their pedal stroke. That, too, plays a big factor.

What kind of shoes don't matter then either. We should all be equally as comfortable walking in the same shoe, regardless of the fact that all of our feet and bodies are different.

*edited

That is exactly what my next post was going to say. I was using a riser bar a while back and couldn't get comfortable with it. I tried with a 90mm stem, 100mm stem, a 5 degree rise stem and a 17 degree rise stem and nothing worked. I ordered the soma sparrow and the next thing I know I was riding in comfort that I have never felt before.

I used to have the same problem. What helped me was to lower the seatpost a cm or so, raise my (quill)stem a cm or so, and bring my saddle forward little bit(2.5mm maybe). It made a pretty big difference.

I don't think track or trackish bikes were really meant to be comfortable over long distances, but they're fun as hell to ride. If your hands are lower than your butt, you're going to experience discomfort eventually. Even just to look up to see traffic. Risers can bring your hands up, but leave you with only one position. Everything's a tradeoff, ya know?

I can say that my angus has felt very comfortable since I got it to the point where my saddle is close to the same height as my hands. What is it Mike Watt said? Something like that.

Also, some people are heel-droppers and some are toe-dippers and others are neutral in their pedal stroke. That, too, plays a big factor.
I've come to a conclusion that I'm a natural toe-dipper and may prefer my saddle higher than the "suggested" height by the LeMond Formula and the 109% thing.

Sorry. For reference. Mike Watt said:

One thing punk taught us, too, was that if you look down at people, or look up at 'em too much you get a kink in your neck. Don't be looking up or looking down. I'm just like you, in a certain way, but in an intrinsic way I'm different than you and you're different than everyone else. You know?