Mountain Biking - Out of curiosity...

... and subhuman can probably answer this one - but who exactly (i.e. manufacturer) makes the lefty "forks" on the scalpel, and are there different grades of travel or have a crazy dual-crown? If it's a 3rd party OEM and not c'dale itself, are there any other companies that make lefty bikes? Just wondering why they dont catch on.

I thoguht it was cdale?

They don't catch on becuase of their proprietary nature. Same reason why mac has never caught on. Companies should realize to make some toooooo unique and hard to replace/fix/maintain always reduces the sale quantity.

hubs are also rare and pretty expensive too...

Thats my take on it.

oh, I also hated riding one. I don't like SC forks...to have a single stanchio, I was never so scared in my life

I thought there was one other company making lefty forks, Maelstrom knows who it is.

As for who manufacters the lefty forks, it's cannondale themselves isn't it? I thought they had their own little factory and made their own forks.

Yes there are different leftys with differing amounts of travel.

I forget the name. Some company in euro does them...

yeah i guessed it would be c'dale themselves - proprietary issues kinda explains the lack of market penetration - just like md players, disappointed that sony didnt market them well enough before, i think they're superior to mp3...

anyway. re: strength on a single stanchion - my issue would be more the fact that c'dale makes it themselves. a speclialist fork manufacturer would be able to make it stronger and more reliable, c'dale can't be good at all things at the same time.

True...but you would be hard press to convince of strenght for heavy dudty jobs. Not without loosing the weight benefit

is it headshok?

sort of.

here is a pic, I'm bad at describing stuff.

They are made by Cannondale/Manitou.

Lefty's use a type of Manitou damping "TPC" in the internals of their fork I gather the rest in then made by C'dale themsleve's.
On Cannondale's new Prophet bike they've up'd the travel on their lefty Jake fork to 140mm! I wonder what it will handle like?
I was also under the impression that C'dales Lefty forks were very good?

A company call'd USE who make a one legged fork something like the USE s.u.b 100? It was an upsidedown design with a linkage setup at the bottom which was supposed to reduce dive under braking "antidive" or Stability. Under. Braking.

Marc

Isn't headshock the fork with the suspension built into the bottom of the headset (thats what it looks like)

Lefty looks like the strut of a plane.

The Lefty Max is a 130mm travel lefty... thats the highest they make, i dont htink the jake is 140mm... i might be wrong though. The lefty is easy to fix... its just like your basic forks... its just... one fork :)

the hubs are almost imposible to come by though, cannondale makes hubs for them, and Mavic has made a wheelset (front and rear) for the lefty but it costs almost over 700 with the rim tire and hubs (tubeless tires)

The lefty has Headshock written on it on the bottom... illl try to take a pic for you, and cdale also makes a Headshok super fatty and some other models of that type... where the shock is in the top of the fork (not actualy in the forks)


and the picture of the lefty above is a Carbon Ti ELO... they stopped making the ELO though becuase the seals leaked and shorted the electronics


any more q's for me to tackle?

This is NOT my shock ( i wish it was :( ) but i was just showing you the Headshock on it

That is on an older Carbon Lefty Ti ELO in SoBe Greeeeenn Ill give ya another pic of it too... It would match my bike perfectly but i dont have what he wants for it (almost 700-800 us)

http://zach.unixforce.com/albums/Random-Pictures/Dsc01920.jpg

http://zach.unixforce.com/albums/Random-Pictures/Dsc01916.jpg

http://zach.unixforce.com/albums/Random-Pictures/Dsc01914.jpg

My fork is a fork, your fork is a fork. Its has one stanchion ;)...

That Ti one is sexy, but they still scare the crap out of me :)

why!?... ERRRRRR GET A CANNONDALE!!! please? I love cannondale. The lefty is by far one of the best shocks i have ever used in my opinion, and its lite. well, the carbon Ti one is :)

Crack-n-fail + Manipoo = DISASTER. Sorry kid I won't touch either of them.

Okay, thats it i have had enough of this bull**** Crank and Fail... PLEASE GOD tell me WHY you think they fail... mine has NEVER failed on me and I've had my bike for a month and i have ridden it almost EVERY day, unless its raining... and Manitou... i dont see whats wrong with them... i like fox better though :)

My friend has had his c'dale for a year and a half and it never fails on him.... please god try to explain crank and fail now...

Watch your language boy.

i thought BS got stared... seriously... please explain how a c'dale is a Crank and Fail... have you ever ridden one?

Canyon-snail, Crack-n-fail etc. are all just pet names that Klin owners bestowed on the early Cannondale attempts to break into the mtn bike market. You should not take offence because your three-leg horse bears little resemblance to the rip off design that earned these names.

They have a reputation under abuse to break. We had a canondale dealer here a couple of years ago, and they, the following year, dumped canaondale. They couldn't afford to keep fixing all the warranty issues with those bikes on dh.

in the end - each to their own, no point getting worked up over it (esp over raiyn's crankiness :p )

in any case, part of the reason why i asked about lefty models with varying travel was the strength issue - i can see that lefty's can still hold well over xc and maybe a bit more technical stuff (especially since your REAR wheel takes the first hit when doing a drop) but just how much can they take and more importantly how much do the manufacturers THINK they can take? as always, the strength problem is in the hub's connection with the suspension "arm". for example producing a 140mm travel lefty indicates a confidence (however misplaced - not debated here) that it can take so much beating etc etc.

It isn't personal experience. Its looking down at them when djing or doing drops. Seeing that stanchion missing scares the crap out of me.,..

The new lefty's seem pretty impresive (models for 2005) i think I'm going to pick me up a Carbon Speed DLR2 eventualy...


and Raiyn... sorry

Ive heard of and seen plenty of broken Jekylls......they make nice stuff, just at a price thats not worth paying. Dont just preach one company because thats what you have man, I cant stand those kind of people.....

Caron...never...maybe for xc though. But...oh man they just scare the crap out of me. I test rode one and saw it flex more than my old exr. I hopped off, walked out of the trail and took it back.

my lefty has never flexed...

and i dont ONLY like c'dales... you guys just always see me post things about them. I like alot of other bikes... i just preffer to ride a c'dale. If i had another 2grand to spend i would get a Kona

Have you ridden a standard DC fork? Or even a high end single crown with 20mm axle?

nope... i have been riding XC since i started riding. i would love to get on a DH bike though.

Ahhh...then you don't know 'stiff'...it would be fine for xc...compared to a dc or 20mm axle fork...under 270 pounds doing drops and jumps...its a noodle :)Its all about its application. The fork might kick ass, but for bigger or more technical riders...I can tell the difference :D

yeah, well thats why... i wiegh 180 lbs, and all i ride is XC, but like i said i would LOVE to try out down hill... i love getting air.

Dh is fun...too much fun....haha why the heck does it have to snow in canada...

i thought BS got stared... seriously... please explain how a c'dale is a Crank and Fail... have you ever ridden one?I've worked on enough of them to know not to trust them. They pioneered "Beer Can" tubing.

I've worked on enough of them to know not to trust them. They pioneered "Beer Can" tubing.
beer can? Thick in diameter but thin walled? That's one thing I've always wondered, the tubes may be thick but how thick are the WALLS? Of the pre-built bikes I've seen, I tend to like Klein's frames the most. I'm sure there are better ones out there that I haven't seen, but of what I HAVE seen, I really like the Klein Attitude frame.

I had a friend tell me that he was talking to a cannondal rep, and the guy said that the single leg of the fork actually inreases the torsional stiffness - not sure what that means, but essentially he said it would flex less...has one of the mountain bike mags done a tough review of the leftys i wonder?

What a rep says and what the part does aren't always true. Its like trusting a bike won't break because your favorite riders rides one. Reps are paid, very few have the moral fibre to be honest 'against' their company.

What a rep says and what the part does aren't always true. Its like trusting a bike won't break because your favorite riders rides one. Reps are paid, very few have the moral fibre to be honest 'against' their company.


Yeah, thats very true.

I think ima save up and try to get either a Kona or something else... what do you guys sugest, ima save abuot 2grand... soo what do ya say guys? full suspention all mountain. i MIGHT save enough for a propher but i would like to try soemthing other then a c'dale :)

The C'dale Prophet does look nice, and they deffinetly have new 140mm lefty forks, the top range was a Lefty carbon? not sure what bits are carbon though. The Prophet is billed as an allday trail bike. The important thing a here about Lefty's is they are only used on XC or allday trail bike's, and are not generally used in heavy abuse type bike's like DH and freeride. Although the C'dale Chase jump bike has a lefty.

Another intresting thing about lefty's is they use needle bearings instead of bushings on the stanchions, supposedly you get less stiction!

Marc

The top lefty is a Carbon Speed fox inertia... it seems pretty damn neet... the tube is carbon from the top down to the rubber gaurd

hey sub don't go changing your opinion on a manufacturer because of what everyone here says... if you like c-dale then buy another one next time... Everyone here always says "its most important how the bike feels, over anything else" then "cannondale is crap" in the next breath... get me?

CL

Clancy,

Feel of a bike is most important. But things are categorized in a sliding scale based on personal preference. You insinuate we flip flop. I take offence. My personal scale is

Fit
Strength
Value
Weight

So, imo, on my scale...canondale doesn't work or even fit in there. No flip flopping at all. There is no next breath as you insinuate.

I've seen a Crack'n'fail crack at the head tube... I blame the "lefty". I don't know why any company would want to do something as stupid as to make a "1" sided fork. What the heck are the benifits? I mean, honestly; get a real fork.

i dont think we need that much negativity Xilant.. and why do you have one quoted?

now i take offense to that... aparently you have never riden it

here is my scale

Feel
Wieght
Value
Strength

Strength is last becuase as an XC rider i dont take big hits liek some other guys doo...

and the benifit of a lefty over other forks is the wieght... again an XC bike should be light

and PLEASE explain how it is a stupid idea... dont be jelous that someone else came up with it before you and they made millions...

I'm stil gunna push the Cannondales... i love them, i think ill stick with them for a while, or untill i have a frame crack on my (prolly wont happen for the xc riding i do)

and i think ima save up for a prophet... just to show you guys that they can make a good strong all aruond bike

http://www.nsmb.com/gear/cannondale_prophet_09_04.php

HEre is a review for ya.

I worked at a shop that sold Cannondales. I've owned several Cannondales. I have even defended Cannondales. I like Cannondales.

I also owned a Lefty, never had a problem with it and found it to be a much better performing Strut (not a fork) than many of it's theorized misconceptions. The Lefty is torsionally stiff. This is because of the internal design. As opposed to a stanction sliding inside a lower with a bushing and wiper seal like a traditional fork, the inside is a 4 sided assembly that slides on 4 sets of 22 needle bearings. The square profile reduces any torsional tendencies. The needle bearings and thus lack of bushings provide a smooth action of the suspension. The damping cartrige was simple and straightforward and always worked. The lock-out was also a nice feature.

The Lefty is a great Strut (front suspension) for a bike. The one sidedness freaky type feeling you get when looking down goes away after a couple rides.

I've seen a lot of warranties on Cannondales. I've also seen just as many from other manufacturer's. Most damaged bikes were from mis-use and abuse as opposed to Manufacturer's defects. The Crack-n-Fail moniker was due to C'Dale pushing the limits of weight during the companies infancy. It's just a nick-name that stuck. Their Gemini and Prophet bikes are solid.

With that, their 'Bonded' swingarms SUCK. These were an issue and Cannondale should have replaced these with their welded versions. I saw a lot of these bonded swingarms not only crack, but explode. When they did, they destroyed a lot more than just the swingarm. This problem was allieviated, but I'm sure there are plenty of bonded swingarms still on bikes.

I've seen a lot of bikes fail. Even Bullits and a lot of custom bikes that you would expect to NEVER see broken. You case a jump hard enough and just about ANY frame will break.

I admire Cannondale for pushing the design envelope and coming out with new products/designs that leave other companies shaking their heads. Good on em!

I just like other bikes and other designs better.

If you like Cannondales, be proud, they make a good bike.

being on the other side of the world, i always come in late into the conversation *sigh*

but yeah - subhuman dont switch just cos some say they're cr@p, in the end that's personal opinion. i'd say stick with c'dale since you love it so much, but bear in mind the POTENTIAL weaknesses that the lefty design has, and ensure your riding style takes that into account (i.e. xc riding). i'd say since 2 grand is a long way away (maybe not for you, i dunno) save it up first and see what the market has to offer then. heck, you might change your mind about a lot of things by then (including what kind of riding you like - a roadie? eeeek!)

What are bonded swingarms, from the sound of it they didn't sound like they were welded. So how are they joined, or what did they look like.

From my understanding, they're bonded with an epoxy of some sort. While it may be a decent idea for non-stressed components, there's no way in heck I would ever trust my entire rear suspension to epoxied metal. I love the way c-dale bikes look, but they just didn't have what I wanted that fit into my budget. I was considering the F-600, but that was +$200 that I wasn't interested in spending immediately, so I went for the Specialized. Given $1500, I probably would have bought a C-dale. I'm a light rider and even when I do go offroad, I don't pound a bike quite as hard as some people do. I think it would stand up quite well to what I dish out.

http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/01/cusa/model-1VA5.html

I didn't do a whole lotta searching, but this bike has the bonded swingarm. Instead of a set of welded tubes on their other models, this is one piece.