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Hi,
just would like some initial advice, im looking at doing a tour with me wife somewhere (not sure yet), and neither of us have ridden a tandem bike, in fact I have no idea about them all.
Do they work where both power is transferred to forward movement, is it a combination, should the better ride side up front or on the back, etc ??
And can you genenerally hire tandem bikes for week/weeks etc ??
Or if purchasing what would be a good initial buy ? inexpensive, yet reliable, we will not be setting land speed records, and something that would have room for paniers and gear ?
any advice appreciated.
cheers
Mikey
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Hi,
Do they work where both power is transferred to forward movement, is it a combination, should the better ride side up front or on the back, etc ??
And can you genenerally hire tandem bikes for week/weeks etc ??
Or if purchasing what would be a good initial buy ? inexpensive, yet reliable, we will not be setting land speed records, and something that would have room for paniers and gear ?
any advice appreciated.
cheers
Mikey
Riding a tandem is a joint effort, and although the two riders may be of different strength, power or capabilities, you both have to work at your own levels of pedalling power. If one of the two is a lot weaker than the other, no problem, providing the strong rider does not try to carry the weaker rider.Both of you work at your own levels and communicate. With regard to who is stoker/ pilot, this will resolve itself. I know on my tandem, With my regular partner, I am the stoker. My pilot is heavier and stronger than me, so with him up front, the bike is better balanced, and as he is stronger in the shoulders, he can steer it better. Wheras, with most other riders, I am the pilot even though they are experienced solo riders, but they do not have the confidence to be up front.
It is possible to hire tandems, so look around and try a few different styles and manufacturers. Have a few trips out and see if it is for you, but do not get up on the first ride if it does not appear to be working. Look at the various manufacturers within your price range, even look at the used market, and then decide that it is the right model, is comfortable on sizing for both of you, and can take the panniers or other fitments you want to put on it.
Hello there 'down-under!'
As stated tandeming is a joint venture. Biggest thing: person up front (pilot/captain/steersman) MUST communicate to the person in the rear (stoker/rear admiral) what he is doing, out loud. For example: shifting, braking, coasting, pedaling, indicate turns/slowing/stopping (but stoker does the actual signaling), and call out the bumps, as stoker can not see them . . . you, up front, are in the way!
Usually the male is up front, but not necessarily. If stoker is of equal size/fit/ability, there is no reason why a woman can not be the pilot on a tandem.
Hires/rental information: done usually by the day, but you should be able to get a better rate by the week. Not many bicycle shops sell, let alone rent, tandems. Even in the States rental tandems are hard to come by and are usually of less than excellent quality.
Talk with folks in Melbourne that ride/own tandems and they will be able to steer you in the right direction.
Good luck!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay in Arizona, USA
Hi MikeyOz
Pegasus Crew (http://www.the-pegasus-crew.com.au/shop.htm) rent and sell tandems. They are located at Brighton on the Esplanade. Most of the tandems they have are on the cheaper side, but they are a great place to start and work out what you want.
Pegasus Crew accompany the Big NSW bike ride each year and bring a fleet of tandems for people to try and but. They always sell a few when couples realise how much fun it is to travel on a tandem than each going their own pace on singles.
We are flying down to Melbourne in a few days for 3 weeks holiday, so if you see a couple on a big orange fade to red Santana riding around Melbourne or parked outside a cafe or restaurant, stop and say hello.
Cheers
Geoff
I'm pretty much in the same position as MikeyOz--looking for a tandem for my (soon to be) wife and I to tour on. Any more suggestions on purchasing a tandem for touring? I am in Dallas.
Thanks.
Call up Richardson Bike Mart and get an appointment for some tandem test rides. The big RBM shop in Richardson is probably the biggest tandem dealer for several hundred miles in any direction.
If you're in the US, Alex at www.mtbtandems.com really knows his stuff, and has great prices and service. We built our tandem here in Australia, and many parts came from him. He also freely shares very sound advice. MikeyOz, feel free to PM or email me if you're thinking of going the custom route, or you've got any questions. Here's out titanium MTB with S&S couplers for easy travelling.
http://www.ozbikesports.com/images/tandem@lighthouse.jpg
I also am going to try tandem. Road makes logical sense to me since most actions are repetive and predictable. I really don't understand how a mountain bike tandem could work. How technical of trails can be ridden, and how are sudden boulders and the like dealt with.
Tandems are all about communication. My wife can't see what's coming up either on the road or in the bush. I let her know to stand, lean, prepare to stop, whatever. Unless you're already a dedicated roadie, I'd go the MTB route. You can always swap to slicks and drop bars, but you can't take a road tandem in the dirt. There's not a lot of difference when we go offroad. Some trails may be too narrow, but we just go slower. It's harder to ride over obstacles, so we're swapping the big ring for a bash guard, but other than that, it's no big deal. We use the size to our advantage too. I can grab the front brake as hard as I like on steep downhills, there's no way we'll flip. It's not for everyone, but my wife loves it. There's also the comfort factor. If I was only going to ride on the road, I'd use a lighter suspension fork, smaller brakes, and maybe a flat bar with a clip on aero bar. I find road bikes too stiff for long distances.
Thanks Expatriot. We want a tandem so that my wife can keep up with me on the road, but you make off-road sound interesting as well. I'll definitely look into the possibility of a mountain bike that could work for both. Maybe that could lead to an excuse for two bikes as well.
Don't forget, if she's not comfortable on a road bike for long distance, it's only worse on a tandem. You can't just stand up and coast any time you want - it's got to be a team effort. But if you and your wife aren't evenly matched, you'll fnd a tandem is a great way to ride together. We took our singles out in the bush a month ago, and it was a lot slower than the tandem. Same with a trip to the beach. Where are you located?
Anthony King, one more thing, depending on the height of your (soon to be) wife, you may find the arguments for a custom dimension tandem compelling. The issues are covered fairly well in the recent "What Tandem to Buy???" thread.
SDS brings up a very good point. At the very least, if you can't go custom, go to a shop that specializes in tandems. Your LBS that sells maybe one tandem in 6 months is not the best place to get fit for a tandem. Things like stand over height are differnt on a tandem, and the stoker's cockpit has to be comfortable too. Even with an adjustable stem, too long or too short is a bad thing.
Expatriot, we are located in California, near Tahoe. I think what you are saying makes sense. Are you saying that a weak rider will only be more miserable? A tandem seems natural for us because she likes to ride for as long as I do, she just is not as fast, as our goals are different. She also doesn't ride as often. She is probably tougher than I am and less of a whiner though. Also, we are in our early 40's and she wants something to do together, as we get older and currently she feels left out with my obsession with riding. I try to talk her into coming along on rides but she doesn't want to hold me up. Does this sound like a fit for tandem?
What I was saying was that if she finds a road bike uncomfortable for long rides, a tandem road bike is probably going to be worse. I don't know your fitness level, or how much you both ride, so I was just tossing in my 2 cents. I've owned many road bikes, but never found them to be very comfortable. Now that I'm a bit older, I'll gladly give up some speed for more comfort. I also think a tandem would be great for you two if you're mismatched. You'll find it's more enjoyable to be able to ride together, and if you want to push yourself, you still can. I love going out in the bush, and my wife likes the beach. We alternate on rides, but get a good workout either way. As the captain, you also get to use your upper body more, at least off road. Either way, we've found a way to spend more time together, and she's enjoying it more. Got her some shoes, pedals, a heart rate monitor, shorts, tops, socks, all the goods. Can't get her too excited about new parts, but it has brought us closer.
"Does this sound like a fit for tandem?"
Sounds like a perfect fit to me. The only issues I see might arise that you did not mention would be incompatible cadences. If she can't spin as long as you can as fast as you can, she won't be happy. This might be addressed with one of the independent coasting systems. I have no experience with that kind of drivetrain, but I have had a few stokers who did not want to spin the rpms, and the difference is pretty intractable. If the rpms match, you can both contribute according to your desires. The other thing I would say would be to work your way up from easy rides to longer and harder rides in small steps.
Some single bike riders find giving up the independence of single bikes unacceptable. Others would rather stoke than ride a single bike, and find the single bike a very poor second choice. They actually report a more emancipated experience on the back of a tandem, because they can concentrate on making power and leave all the fiddly stuff, i.e., shift, brake, steer, watch for potholes and other road hazards, make tactical decisions, etc., to the help on the front of the bike.
I have introduced a lot of slow riders to tandems. The first rides are often a real blast, when they discover that they can ride with an all-guy pack, and not get shelled. They come back with big eyes and big smiles. It's harder on the long hills you have around Tahoe. There the climbing is about power-to-weight ratio, and it will be difficult to climb on a mixed-pair tandem with the guys on singles. Not impossible, just hard.
Take fit on both ends of the bike and in between the riders very seriously. You have to have single bike fits on both ends of the bike, and enough space in between to keep your stoker very happy. She will have to decide what she needs, but I consider the bare minimum to be stoker single bike fit, with 6" of horizontal stoker stem dimension, between the center of the stoker handlebars and the center of the captain's seatpost. Longer is much better. Various makers charge only a little more to build to order, and I think it is one of the best investments you can make. Some of us have custom tandems with longer stoker compartments and know quite a bit about the subject.
Issues for your stoker would be, can she go as low as she wants to go, without having your back/butt in the way of where her head/helmet need to be, and is there room for her to stand up and naturally move forward, without running out of space because you are in the way? Does she feel blind because she is so close to your back that she can't see anything? If aerobars are desired, even more space will be required.
Try sitting on the back yourself with somebody on the front, and see if that seems like acceptable space for a fun activity.
Our's is a perfect fit. My wife has plenty of room, but she can still give me a decent back rub. Not sure if that's a benefit of a custom frame, or a moutain bike setup, but it's definitely a benefit.
Thanks for the tip, SDS. I have been looking at used tandems because I figure I can get higher quality for the same money and I don't have a lot to spend. The Wheels in Motion on Coit has a used Cannondale right now. I also thinking I can recoup more money on a used bike if a) my fiance really likes it and we want to upgrade or b) she turns fickle and I need to sell it.
I'm 6' and the fiance is a 5'6. Is a 6 inch difference consistent with the design of standard tandems? I like to ride a tall frame for my height, but I'm willing to sacrifice a few centimeters so the stoker dimensions fit my fiance.
Hopefully we can test-ride some soon. Everything will depend on how she likes riding. She likes riding our singles together, but I have to go pretty slow for her and she doesn't like traffic at all--two problems I hope the tandem will solve or, in the latter case, at least ameliorate. I'm keen on any chance to spend more time on two wheels, but I'm not going to sink a bunch of money into something hoping my stoker will come around and learn to enjoy riding the tandem. She has expressed her fondness for tandems, but I need to find out if she really has the taste for riding one or if it's merely a sentimental attraction.
If she's lukewarm about the whole thing, I'll be sizably disappointed, but I've decided I'll comfort myself with a Rivendell Atlantis.
I will just chip this in for what it is worth. I had the most fun ever sharing a tandem with a friend riding around Niagara on the Lake. The cars were flashing and tooting at us.. and I was bamboozled: then we got to a straight free bit of cycle track and I looked around.. she was only pretending to fly to the great amusement of the vehicles...LOL
What a total blast of a day.
One day I plan on owing one for sure, the best fun you can possibly have on a bike must be sharing a tandem. :)
A 6" difference is consistent with the design of production tandems, and I would say that your preference for a tall frame for your height could work in your favor as well. A larger size of frame may have a longer rear top tube, without much risk of being vertically too tall for your stoker. Because you are looking at a particular used bike, this isn't much of an issue for you this time.
Because the top tube slopes and the seat tube is "periscoped" to extend beyond the top tube, the most crucial vertical dimension requirement can be the need for just enough room for a shock-absorbing seatpost for the stoker. Some stokers prefer a solid post. The seat tube needs to be no longer than the amount that would allow 2.5" inches of round seatpost to show on a single bike. In that case, there will be enough room for the shock-absorbing seatpost to work, taking into account the normal variations in seatpost head size and saddle rail height variations as well. On a captain seatpost on a production tandem, you have to have just enough round seatpost showing to allow the stoker stem to clamp to it. Because of the periscoped seat tube and the shock-absorbing seatpost, the stoker top tube ends up more like a compact frame or MTB frame top tube, with a little more clearance over the top for standing over it or getting on or off.
I like the idea of buying used tandems or custom tandems the first time a lot over buying a new tandem. It seems to me that, given that very few people will buy a custom tandem with an extended stoker compartment the first time (in the case of a friend who was buying a custom tandem the first time, he and I did talk about stoker fit at length and he ended up with 32" bottom bracket spacing on a marvelous bike), a used tandem is a really good choice. As long as you are willing to upgrade sometime in the future, it's a good way to start, and even after you upgrade, you then have a loaner tandem with which other couples can go out with you, and it's wonderful to have the opportunity to do that.
People who post here argue in favor of various materials, depending on their size and weight and budget. Fact is, there is NO ideal material and tubeset for ALL teams and use patterns. The Cannondale may be the best sprinting tandem there is, but it will not be as vertically compliant as a skinny-tube steel tandem over a rough Texas chipseal FM road. The steel tandem has its own set of disadvantages. You can't have it all, and from my point of view, a Cannondale is well up in the hierarchy of available tandem framesets.
I think you should buy a tandem. However, I have friends with a Rivendell Heron and a Rivendell Rambouillet. Both of them are well-constructed bikes with all the fine details well-executed. I would have no concerns about purchasing a bike, sight unseen, from Rivendell. Grant Peterson may never be rich, and I don't agree with a lot of what he does, but if he keels over dead tomorrow, he will be remembered as a principled man who delivered what he promised. We should all be so lucky.
It's been a few years, but I have ridden with RBM out of the big shop and with Carrollton Cycling Club. The roads and the traffic were poor. Everywhere there were fractured and displaced concrete slabs with big cracks and vertical discontinuities. I have heard that the Bluebonnet (shop) ride farther north is better. A tandem tends to drive through road surface irregularities better than a single bike because of the larger tires and greater mass, but the usual rule about keeping out of parallel and slightly angulated cracks still applies. I am pretty spoiled down by Joe Pool, but the house-building rate right now is unbelievable, and already the traffic has bumped up a bunch. Getting the Tue-Thur 6:00 p.m. training ride out of the Oasis Marina has taken nearly five minutes once or twice because there is never a gap in the traffic. Until this year that had never been a problem.
I recomend a helmet mirror (captain and stoker helmet mirrors are even better, I like the Tiger Eyes) and perhaps a Flight Deck computer on a tandem. It's helpful to minimize the management load, and no other computer (yet, Cateye is supposed to be making one) has the graphic gear display with STI shifters. Communication is a big confidence builder too. You have to tell her you see a hazard so she will believe you will deal with it in a timely manner. There are threads here on starting and stopping and standing and climbing and practically everything else you could think of. Wouldn't hurt to read a couple....you will look a lot smarter if you have read up on these ahead of time.
A couple thoughts to share....
Road & Off-Road Tandems:
Question: If you could only own one personal bike would it be:
a) a 700c road bike (or 650c tri-geek road bike) or
b) a 26" off-road bike with two sets of tires?
The same answer to this question should apply to your tandem purchase. If you're a dedicated roadie who also has an off-road bike for "playing in the dirt" then go with a road tandem that's designed for, well, road riding. However, if you're basically an off-road enthusiast who also rides on the road for cross training, go with the off-road hardtail tandem and two sets of tires and recognize that there will be some handling issues with the off-road tandem when used on the road, e.g., higher center of gravity due to the higher bottom bracket heights and sub-optimal steering geometry or fork bob from your suspension fork. The middle ground is an "enduro" tandem fitted with a suspension fork that can be locked out. Of course, you're now getting into an uber tandem that's not optimized for road or off-road riding. It's your call; just remember, a tandem is a (fill in the blank*) bicycle built for two. Your passion for (fill in the blank*) cycling has probably allowed you to learn enough to know the importance of having the right tool for the job: pick the right tool for your (fill in the blank*) tandeming interests.
blank* = road, off-road, road and off-road.
Personal perspective: 7 years of road and 6 years of off-road tandem riding. Presently own our 2nd & 3rd road tandems and our 3rd off-road tandem.
To the question regarding, "can tandems really be ridden off-road".
According to several hundred off-road tandem enthusiasts around the world, the answer is a resouding YES! Single track is very doable with the exception of vertical obstructions that are taller than your tandem's boob tube height, e.g., 10" - 13" and fresh-cut switchbacks where the apexes can't be (e.g., go through rocks) or haven't been "enlarged" by the masses. Tandem teams routinely take on the TransAlp Challenge and have also participated in the TransRockies Challenge. There is a tandem class at the Sea Otter Classic every year along with many other large off-road classics and endurance events. There is a huge off-road tandem club in France (VTT) and an internet discussion forum for off-road tandem enthusiasts with over 200 subscribers that remains alive and well.
Finally, as to that first tandem and sizing.
So long as you make sure your first tandem fits you properly, your 5'6" partner should have no problem adapting to the default-sized stoker compartment of any contemporary production tandem for your first year of riding together. While Scott (SDS), myself, and others have come to believe that many stokers are short-changed on stoker compartment size, bear in mind that contemporary tandems are at least 1" - 3" longer than they were before the 1980's and that less than 2% of the tandems sold have extra-long stoker compartments, even for extra-long stokers who really need them. Conversely, you are correct to note that not all couples who try tandems find it is "their thing". In fact, there is a Calfee Tetra Tetra tandem (MSRP of $9.5k) for sale at a significant discount with less than a few hundred miles on it that an over-enthusiastic cycling enthusiast purchased for he and his spouse to share: she didn't like it. Ouch! That's an expensive error in judgement, even if you're loaded. So, while the first tandem needs to fit "properly" it need not be "perfect".
However, assuming you and your intended (or any other couple) go into their first tandem riding experience with their eyes wide open, their "first time tandem team" homework done, and establish some common goals for those first several outings and at least the first year's goals for tandeming (e.g., to still be enjoying yourselves on a tandem a year later or to win the masters nationals?), then your probability of success is about as high as you can make it.
Where can tandeming take your relationship(s)?
For some couples, tandeming can be the last thing that they ever shared in their relationship. Yeah, things don't always work out between couples and a tandem will quickly surface any major compatibility issues.
However, it can also go the other way. Tandeming is OUR thing as it is for thousands of other couples arond the world. Now, some couples just do their own thing from home on the weekends every now and again. Others even discover tandem rallies and tandem touring. Somewhere in between these is what we call "the tandem way of life". For example, we just returned from a 3 day weekend in Charleston, SC, where we met up with 2 other couples from the Atlanta Area, another couple from Raleigh, NC, a couple from Knoxville, TN, and a couple from Murfreesboro, TN, for a wonderful weekend of socializing and cycling around the Islands south of Charleston. We have come to know these dear friends over the past 7 years through our local tandem club and by attending regional tandem rallies. A few weekends back we met up with our off-roading friends for a weekend of socializing and riding at the Tsali National Recreation Area in Northwest North Carolina. We and one other couple came up from Atlanta, one couple came from Tallahassee, FL, one of our bachelor off-road tandem enthusiasts and the host for the weekend came in from Asheville, NC with his stoker du jour, two couples came down from Cincinnati, OH, another couple came in from Chicago, IL, another from the Detroit, MI, area, and another came all the way down from near Toronto, Canada (see attached partial group photo, below). With the exception of one couple whom we know from road riding, we met all of the others via our internet-based off-road enthusiasts discussion forum.
Had this been 8 years ago, on either of these two weekends I would have likely been off cycling while Debbie was doing something else but it certainly had nothing to do with a bicycle, on road or off. This isn't to suggest that tandeming will evolve into an all encompassing past time for every couple, but you never know until you give it a try.
Geez Mark, took you long enough to join this thread. Between you and SDS, I have nothing left to say. I'll just tip my hat and go back to sitting on the sidelines.
I'm pretty much in the same position as MikeyOz--looking for a tandem for my (soon to be) wife and I to tour on. Any more suggestions on purchasing a tandem for touring? I am in Dallas.
Loaded / self-contained touring, credit-card touring, or fully-supported tours? Here in the US or international?
General rule of thumb for touring tandems is look for steel frame, lots of braze-ons for racks & fenders, a rear Arai drag-brake, really good wheelsets (Phil Wood are ideal for touring) and either go with your favorite integrated shifting system or strongly consider bar-end shifters for their simplicity and better brake & brake lever options.
Livngood--Self contained, in the United States. I was leaining toward steel frame as well. I have seen the issue covered in other threads and plan on using my Burley Nomad for storage, so braze-ons aren't a huge issue. I know it will make the vehicle pretty long, but I'm not going to spend a bunch of extra money on bags when I've alreay laid out three bills for a great trailer. It works like a dream behind my single. Unless you are carrying 30+ pounds you can hardly tell it's there.
SDS-- Again, thanks for the tips. A Rivendell is a thing of beauty, but like you I think the greater good would be to buy a tandem. It just comes down to the fiance liking it or not. Are there any places that you know of in the area that will rent a tandem? The fiance doesn't take to new things immediately. To her credit she knows this about herself and has asked if we could rent one for a day rather than a brief test drive so she could get more comfortable and make a more informed decision.
I have had two sets of friends shop for tandems at Richardson Bike Mart, and in both cases RBM offered to loan them a tandem for the weekend. The first thing I would try would be to see if RBM will still do that.
You're welcome to come down and use one of mine for a few hours, but I think none of them will fit. I'm 6'2" and they are all set up with high, forward positions for the captain. The horizontal distance between the seatpost and the handlebars is 30".
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