Bicycle Mechanics - raleigh english 3 speed questions....

Well....it is a Huffy Sportsman made by Raleigh. I assume that counts.

Ive got a 1963 model. Cottered cranks, but it does not have the fancy RH chainring...just a generic chrome one........ I got a great deal on it ($10 barn find). It has been sitting for ever and im just now staring it in the face. WE are having a local 3 speed event here in the comming weeks that will likely turn into a regular weekly ride. Im thinking of getting it ready.

THe SA AW hub works great. Put a new indicator chain on it last night and just finished fiddling around with getting it adjusted properly. It has the grip shifter and not the thumb trigger.

Anyway....i regreased the headset but have yet to do the BB. I can get some grade B cotters locally and can find a cotter press locally. IM wondering if i should ride it first and then do that later after my first ride. Im not sure how things look in there.

I ran some wax over a few spots on the frame to see if the oxidation would come off....and it does......and it actually might shine once im done :) It needs a cleaning bad....

Ill post some before and after pics once i get around to it in the daylight.

Now on my my questions:

1. THe chain. How do you remove it. IT doesnt look like normal chain pins that you push out. the little links say "england" on them. There is one strange looking link that has a flat plate for a link. Im thinking this is like the sram flex link thing that the sram chains use for quick removal but thought i would ask first. Id like to pop the chain off ...give it a degreasing and relubing.


Ill have more questions as i go along im sure. Ill keep adding them to the thread.

2. I pulled my pedals off tonight to start overhauling them. THey were full of a thick grease. Much thicker than the park stuff you get at the bike shop. SHould i be redoing this wtih the park grease or put some heavier stuff in there like what was originally in there?

I got the chain off btw...and it cleaned up really nice.

Hi scale,

Don't touch the cottered BB if you can avoid it. I've been inside my Raleigh's cottered BB twice, once to rebuild the BB and again when it finally died. The Mark Stonich cotter press is a dream and made my cotter work a non-issue, but my old BB threads, with the attendant corrosion/seizing/stripping, were heinous. I ruined two BB tools and almost totaled my frame along with some brand-new Phil Wood retaining rings on the second go-around.

I know how tempting it can be to be thorough, but in this case, try to make an exception and don't fix it if it ain't broke.

If your BB truly needs work, or if you don't want to listen to me, get penetrating oil and a blowtorch on your side, not at the same time. Good luck.

Sounds like you figured out how to remove the master link on that chain.
I'd replace it with a new one. Keep the old one if you like, but don't ride with it. It's probably original and worn and can break.
A new single speed chain would be $10 to $12.

The pedals can be re-greased with Park grease.

Enjoy your new ride!

Thanks. I might stay out of my bb for that very reason. IT feels smooth and nohting is loose. No metal on metal sounds so there must be grease in there doing its job now. For a chain....would any SS chain fit the bill? i have used the SRAM pc1 chain and it has worked great on some of my past projects. I dont have a chain wear measuring tool but this old chain does look pretty decent.

Ill probably be gutting and cleaning the other pedal today and refitting them both using te park grease.

the chain size is 1/2" x 1/8". normally called a single speed chain.

Park grease will work. So will bearing grease.. :)

Looking forward to the pics!

Yes, the SRAM pc1 chain would be fine.

Here are some pics before i started tearing it down:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5107/5626875923_64ecd991df.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5221/5626876407_2158ebfd3b.jpg


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5305/5627461012_c10123cd45.jpg




http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5627460880_24d31c9ba9.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5627460800_45e347a364.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5626876093_eddfc92cd8.jpg


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5107/5626875969_e596ab43d9.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5106/5627460722_19e2b228cc.jpg

A worthy project.

brought her outside last night now that i have it stripped down and gave the frame a good washing with a mix of hot water, dawn dishwashing liquid and a small bit of simple green. IM thinking im going to have to get after it with a more potent mix of simple green because there is some grease that is so aged i cant even brush it off with a stiff brush. My fingernail wont scratch it either.

I cant figure out if this thing is suppose to be flat black or if it is just that faded out. im thinking of throwing a coat or 2 on it to see if it will shine up after i get it compeltely clean. All signs right now point to it being a flat black style paint...but im not sure.

You mentioned the old siff grease twice, in the pedals and on the frame. The old grease was made of soap and oil (some still is). When the bike (and grease) is old the oil evaporates and the soap is what you are left with. Therefor you just use a good normal grease after cleaning up bearrings.

I would be a bit worryed about the BB for the same reason. I`ve opened old BB`s that "felt fine" but looked awful innside. Try at least to get some oil innside your BB to loosen up the soap that I guess is innside. If you can manage to do this several times maybe the BB is going to be fine for some time AND maybe loosen up the rust that may be in the threads. You could make the BB your winter project?

I don't think you can get oil in the BB (especially the drive side) without pressing out the cotter on the non drive side. If you have to go that far, clean it all out and regrease the whole thing.

New Kool stop brake pads or plan on dragging your feet to stop. Well plan on dragging your feet even with new pads if it's wet out.

I don't think you can get oil in the BB (especially the drive side) without pressing out the cotter on the non drive side. If you have to go that far, clean it all out and regrease the whole thing.

If the bottom bracket is smooth it should be fine and you should be able to adjust it without removing the cotters but if you want to get really old school and make that bottom bracket run as smooth as silk add some oil from the top of the seat post.

Spin the pedals to get this circulating and this will refresh the grease and the oil that flows out will carry out any contaminants.

Both my 50's Raleighs have oil fittings in the bottom bracket for this very purpose and they spin as smoothly now as they did 50 years ago and I have had no need to rebuild their bottom brackets as everything in there is clean and shiny.

Both these bikes have seen a lot of use so are not garage queens either.

I have done this with old bikes where the bottom brackets were properly adjusted but almost seized because the old grease had turned to paste... oiling them restores their function very quickly and then when you tear things down the fresh oil will have softened up the old grease and cleaning things up is much easier.

[QUOTE=Sixty Fiver;12527493] but if you want to get really old school and make that bottom bracket run as smooth as silk add some oil from the top of the seat post.

Well, I didn't know that because I'm only a "fifty-fiver". ;)

[QUOTE=Sixty Fiver;12527493] but if you want to get really old school and make that bottom bracket run as smooth as silk add some oil from the top of the seat post.

Well, I didn't know that because I'm only a "fifty-fiver". ;)

Being older than me you should know this... :)

Take it easy with the Simple Green. That stuff can melt paint (probably only certain kinds) and destroy decals.

If you want an unbelievably beautiful outcome: Meguir's Scratch-X (at auto store). I saw it recommended by someone on the C&V list (where you and your bike would be welcomed). I tried it on a Raleigh DL-1. I honestly couldn't believe how beautiful it made the paint. Limpid is the only word I can use to describe the outcome. It also will remove pinstriping and destroy decals if you're not careful, however.

RE: bottom bracket. Everyone has their horror tales, like FlyCRASH's. I have ruined forged cranks and probably some other things I'd care not to remember before I learned what I was doing (to the extent that I know). But I've also rebuilt probably 100 bottom brackets without incident. It's true that old ones occasionally are destroyed in the process if they are seized up. But they aren't all seized up. (The only bb-related thing I ever destroyed due to ignorance and lack of the proper tools rather than seizing, was, unfortunately, a SunTour Superb lockring.) IMO, however, if you have access to a cotter pin press, half the battle is already won. Usually, if you use the correct tools, the other parts (ahem, fixed cup aside) come apart intact and without too much effort.

If things don't come immediately apart, a patient method of dripping some penetrating oil on the offending connection every night will eventually do the trick.

i have the correct tool for the bb and it is already apart. Took 2 seconds....

im curious about that scratch x stuff.

What did you use to get the cotter pins out? I've only ever removed and replaced two, and I just used a hammer. Is there an easier way that doesn't involve expensive specialist tools?

What did you use to get the cotter pins out? I've only ever removed and replaced two, and I just used a hammer. Is there an easier way that doesn't involve expensive specialist tools?

I use a very large "C" clamp with a socket over the head of the cotter pin so it can move in that direction as I torque on the clamp.

I don't know if you consider this an expensive specialist tool, but I have a Mark Stonich cotter press that makes cotter removal and replacement nearly routine. It would be US$72 shipped to England. If you buy it early in your time as a bicycle mechanic, you'll get to spread that cost over more bikes. Hitting a rotating part with a hammer perpendicular to its axis kind of freaks me out; YMMV.

http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html

On the other hand, I feel that even Mark's fixed cup tool is not up to the task of a stubborn fixed cup. But you can typically leave the fixed cup mounted when doing a BB overhaul.

I have tried many methods short of buying an actual cotter pin tool.

The hammer usually destroys the cotter and I usually hit the bike in the process/

Tried cheapie C-clamps. It's very difficult to keep everything straight so the force is directed straight through the center of the cotter. Clamps I used in this case deformed and were trash. A good quality one would probably be fine.

Bar clamps are clumsy and there was too much slop in the ones I used.

A small bench vise (not attached to a bench) works well (with all these methods using socket or axle spacer to provide a place for the pin to go and one or more nuts on the cotter to keep it from deforming too much), as long as the vise is big enough. I keep rediscovering that the one at the coop where I volunteer is just a hair too small.

At the coop, what we usually do (when in our right minds) is put the whole bike up on the bench vice (with axle spacer over the blunt end of the cotter etc). Clumsy as hell but it usually works without destroying the pin or other parts of the bike.

I've put the cotter pin press on the pretty please tool list at the coop.

I don't know if you consider this an expensive specialist tool, but I have a Mark Stonich cotter press that makes cotter removal and replacement nearly routine. It would be US$72 shipped to England. If you buy it early in your time as a bicycle mechanic, you'll get to spread that cost over more bikes. Hitting a rotating part with a hammer perpendicular to its axis kind of freaks me out; YMMV.

http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html

On the other hand, I feel that even Mark's fixed cup tool is not up to the task of a stubborn fixed cup. But you can typically leave the fixed cup mounted when doing a BB overhaul.

The problem (aside from applying adequate force) is getting a non-slip purchase on the shallow flats of the fixed cup--provided you really need to get it out.

Sheldon Brown's method for the fixed cup is here (scroll down): http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

I made this work once, but it did some superficial damage to the cup.

Last time, I used a large bolt, giant washer, and nut to attach a wrench (a large adjustable was all we had). to the cup and that way get leverage on it. Without having to worry about the wrench slipping off, you can put all your might on it. The cup came right out.

Hey Scale; that's a nice 'English' bike which is what we called them 50 years ago. Some time in the early '90s I did a 'metric century' (65 mi) on a stripped Raleigh with the coaster-brake 3-spd hub. I put a regular caliper brake on the front wheel and went with it since the ride was in the Jamestown, VA area with only very minor hills. We rode from Jamestown to Yorktown on the Colonial Pkwy, had lunch and went back. I actually managed to pass some guys on the way back! I know you'll enjoy the 3-speed event. I used to be into hubs - I built one bike with 26" x 2" semi-knobbies, fenders, an Atom hub brake in front and a Bendix 'Automatic' 2-spd coaster brake rear. It was supposed to be a 'rain bike' for my short commute to work at the time, and I did use it for that for some time.

Hey Scale; that's a nice 'English' bike which is what we called them 50 years ago. Some time in the early '90s I did a 'metric century' (65 mi) on a stripped Raleigh with the coaster-brake 3-spd hub. I put a regular caliper brake on the front wheel and went with it since the ride was in the Jamestown, VA area with only very minor hills. We rode from Jamestown to Yorktown on the Colonial Pkwy, had lunch and went back. I actually managed to pass some guys on the way back! I know you'll enjoy the 3-speed event. I used to be into hubs - I built one bike with 26" x 2" semi-knobbies, fenders, an Atom hub brake in front and a Bendix 'Automatic' 2-spd coaster brake rear. It was supposed to be a 'rain bike' for my short commute to work at the time, and I did use it for that for some time.

Some of us nutters still do that kind of thing: http://www.3speedtour.com/

I don't know if you consider this an expensive specialist tool, but I have a Mark Stonich cotter press that makes cotter removal and replacement nearly routine. It would be US$72 shipped to England. If you buy it early in your time as a bicycle mechanic, you'll get to spread that cost over more bikes. Hitting a rotating part with a hammer perpendicular to its axis kind of freaks me out; YMMV.

http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html

On the other hand, I feel that even Mark's fixed cup tool is not up to the task of a stubborn fixed cup. But you can typically leave the fixed cup mounted when doing a BB overhaul.


I do beleive mark lives near me. Actually im sure if it. Ill be getting my cotters from him in the future once i replace these.

Some of us nutters still do that kind of thing: http://www.3speedtour.com/

Funny....ive actually been to your swap at barley johns in the fall. I missed it last year and was remarking to my uncle that there was a local club that had a swap comming up. It was that very day i was with him talking about the swap...that the swap was held and i missed it. The strange irony of all this was.......i missed it because i was out at a sale with him and that is where i found my huffy (raleigh). I remember because i rushed home to figure out what weekend the swap was held and found it was that very same morning. Strange indeed....

Funny....ive actually been to your swap at barley johns in the fall.

Ah, you must be referring to the "All British Cycling Event (http://www.abcetour.com/)"

I am, at this moment, preparing my secret weapon to win the "Gravity Race and Pastry Joust" this fall!

yup....the abce. Sorry..for some reason i thought they were related \ the same.

DANG IT...

i lost one of the fender nuts that holds the fender to the fork. I went to the hardware store and nothing. IT isnt standard or metric thread. I think it is wentworth threading. Did raliegh use this on the older bikes? Perhaps a question better asked in the C&V forum?

DANG IT...

i lost one of the fender nuts that holds the fender to the fork. I went to the hardware store and nothing. IT isnt standard or metric thread. I think it is wentworth threading. Did raliegh use this on the older bikes? Perhaps a question better asked in the C&V forum?

They did use a weird thread, apparently they can be tapped out to the standard eyelet thread though, which is M5, if memory serves. Also, I think the name is of the threading is Whitworth, but don't hold me to that, it's many years before my time.

If you don't want to re-tap the eyelet, a machine shop could, in theory, modify a standard bolt to fit your threads using a screw-cutting lathe, but I doubt that any modern machine shop would know the pitch and diameter of any Whitworth threads, so you might be a bit stuck.

Head badge does say 'Huffy' on it, not Raleigh, :rolleyes:

but the repair/maintainence suggestions remain valid....

I suspect the BB is not Raleigh's unique thread pitch then, that's a +..

I saw a video on Youtube, where a 6" machinist-type bench vise was rolled up to the cranks sitting on a decrepid skateboard. The vise was at the perfect height for an average 26" wheeled three speed. Using a socket over the non-threaded end of the cotters, the contributor pressed out the cotters effortlessly and, literally, in seconds. I always use my cheap-Chinese-made heavy duty "C" clamp (the type that requires one to use a wrench to turn the bolt) and a socket to do the same thing. The heavy duty type "clamp" cost about $18- works every time.
I rarely if ever mess with the fixed, i.e., right hand cup. I have yet to see one that wasn't usable. chris_in_miami has an old monkey wrench he uses for this (see:http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/316561-Hints-and-tricks-thread/page11?highlight=old+tool+for+removing+bottom+bracket+cup) It's #260 in the thread. The trickiest part is securing a wrench to the adjustable cup while the bottom bracket spindle is still in place. Using a couple of Pony clamps and some huge fender washers, you can apply some leverage and (hopefully, not round off the two bosses) and get it started, if not too rusted. The other option is to use a bench mounted bench vise and to turn the frame with the cup "secured" to the vise. The tool or the vise likes to "pop" off the cup under load- it can be very frustrating. Good luck and welcome to the world of Raleigh Proprietary threaded parts

There is a thread on how to make a Harbor Freight Cotter Pin Press on the C&V forum.

Now i have a new problem

ive regreased the cranks but i cant get the cups right.....or there is somthing wrong the with cups because i now have play in the spindle at certain spots. IF i turn it a feel some resistance in spots and it is loose in others. Not the same on every revolution. Ive tried new bearings......and ive also tried a different raleigh spindle that took forever to source. because i saw a ridge on the bearing surface of my old one. THat didnt do it. it still remains. I do beleive the bb is that damn witworth threading which makes this even more ridiculous. The adj cup seems fine. No pitting or wear that i can see. IM wondering if the shel is warped or cast badly which seems odd because these are built like tanks. .......or maybe the casting of the cups is messed up? I would think that this would lead to consistent looseness and binding per the revolution of the spindle so that almost doesnt make sense.

I have no idea what is going on here. Driving me crazy.

Hi scale,

This is why one leaves BBs well enough alone if he/she can get away with it. :(

It's interesting that the spots of resistance and looseness aren't the same with each revolution. Did you put in more balls or balls of a slightly different diameter than the stock configuration?

If the looseness/tightness are minor, you might be fine just riding the thing. The situation will improve as the parts break each other in. But you'd do well to service the BB sooner the first time to get out the worn metal.

If the cups and/or the shell aren't well, your choices are few and mostly expensive. If it's the cups, you might be able to score some better ones off of a dead parts bike. If it's the shell, you're likely looking at re-tapping the shell to a modern threading and putting in a modern crankset. The latter will total the bike by far, but if it has sentimental value, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable.

(I'm running a Phil Wood BB and Sugino crankset in my '74 Raliegh. :lol:)