Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Leader 725tr fixie build

I'm doing a collaborative build with my LBS and we have lined up all the components and I'm wondering what everyone thinks. I'm already over my budget but if anyone has suggestions on the components as far as price vs quality is concerned, I'm open. It will be used for city riding and summer commuter.

Structure
Black Leader 725tr - $359
http://store.citygrounds.com/store/product/10452/2011-Leader-725TR-Frame/

Hand build black velocity deep v's with All City hubs and dt swiss double butted spokes - $295

Wolf TT carbon fork - $180
https://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=122749

Drive train
All City crankset with Shimano bottom bracket - 140
http://img1.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/CR2900.jpg

KMC Rust Buster Chain - $12

Contact
Cane creek 40 series headset - $45
http://img1.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/HD0049.jpg

No name aero carbon seatpost - $52
http://cgi.ebay.com/CARBON-AERO-TT-SEATPOST-NEW-27-2mm-/320648588537?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa8252cf9

Richey Stem - $35

Pursuit style handlebars and tape - $63
http://hawleycompany.net/images/items/HDBR1726.jpg

All City track pedals - $20

Tektro R530 front caliper and lever - $40

With the other misc. components and labor I'm looking at about $1435 total before tax.

It looks like iMiNUSD might have the 725tr frame cheaper?
http://www.iminusd.bigcartel.com/product/leader-725tr-v-2 unless v.2 is different than what you're looking at or shipping is really that much

For 1500 you could get a really really really nice used bike. Actually you could get 2 or 3 for that much. Do you really want an all new bike for so much more.

Is there any reason why the 2011 725tr frame is so much more expensive than the 2010?

Also $1435? :O

what is a "collaborative build" with an LBS? it sounds like you are buying parts and they are assembling a bike for you... that's kind of more a standard business transaction.

I priced out a 'similar' build with my LBS a few months ago - came out around the same price. When I saw the number we all scratched our heads and collectively acknowledged it was too much for a fixed gear city bike. Ended up grabbing an off-the-peg Swobo for <$550 with the intention of swapping out the parts onto another frame. Bespoke builds just spiral out of control - no benefit with economies of scale for even a decent complete.

My humble advice... Find a primo component-spec'd complete for $700 (find something with a nice wheel set, crank, BB and HS) and transplant it to a new Leader frame and sell off the old frame. You should be able to come in under $900 and be really close to your dream build. Maybe a Raleigh or a Redline? I can't think of any notable completes at the moment, but I know they are out there :)

Or disregard my opinion and enjoy what sounds like an awesome build :)

Cheers

Is there any reason why the 2011 725tr frame is so much more expensive than the 2010?

This question has been answered several times in the Leader thread (where this thread should have been posted).

Also to the OP - paying nearly 300 bucks for a Deep V/All-city wheelset is a ripoff.

what is a "collaborative build" with an LBS? it sounds like you are buying parts and they are assembling a bike for you... that's kind of more a standard business transaction.

A collaborative build meaning I am present during the build, helping out and learning what they have to teach at the same time.

That's like $400 labor. Maybe that's typical but it sure seems excessive for something someone with a bit of time and motivation can do themselves. If you have tools, or are going to buy the tools anyway, i'd really consider doing it yourself.

I also agree with Scrod that $300 for that wheelset is a rip.

I totally missed the 400 bucks for labor. Holy crap! Does your LBS build bikes at gunpoint?

What LBS are you going to? You are getting ripped off. Don't you have any friends that can help you with the build? Hell, give me $100 and I'll build the damn thing for you.

Scrod and Scott thanks for the advice about the wheels. Can you recommend a comparable set online for cheaper?

The quoted labor is only $100. Also I don't know if you can view it but this is the exact estimate they sent me. I was going to get the fork and seatpost on my own so they are not included but now I'm thinking I should try to get all of the parts for the build myself. My original plan was to do the build on my own and learn as I go but I really don't have the tools. Do you think it is worth in the long run to buy tools for myself?
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al9VYph3R3_OdGE5aGZkNmZZaE5TWmJNYmhaSEhaRHc&hl=en#gid=0

If you really want Deep Vs Velomine has Velocity/Formula wheelsets for $200 and under:

http://www.velomine.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=87_172_173&zenid=8qfnk9pu9lp0b6gcg2kqlkp092

Wheelsets from Velomine are typically bombproof.

The quoted labor is only $100. Also I don't know if you can view it but this is the exact estimate they sent me. I was going to get the fork and seatpost on my own so they are not included but now I'm thinking I should try to get all of the parts for the build myself. My original plan was to do the build on my own and learn as I go but I really don't have the tools. Do you think it is worth in the long run to buy tools for myself?
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al9VYph3R3_OdGE5aGZkNmZZaE5TWmJNYmhaSEhaRHc&hl=en#gid=0

OK, i see. $100 is much more reasonable. My take on tools is if you're learning how to build & service your bike, you're gonna need the tools eventually. But since labor's a lot cheaper than i thought, that changes things, since iron's expensive. Honestly, $100 for the service described sounds like a pretty good deal, especially considering absolutely no one has anything bad to say about the place. IMHO it's worth it to shop elsewhere for the wheelset but everything else is reasonably priced.

Again i agree with Scrod on velomine. I have a set of their Deep V's laced to Formulas on my bike (which i did build up myself). They needed minimal truing out of the box and have given me absolutely no problems since.

I really appreciate both of your advice. So I'll be saving about $120 so on the wheels but from the others reactions they seem to think that paying over $1000 for a build is too much. What do you think, is $1300 too much to pay for a new fixie? I don't see how else I can get everything the way I want it with the aero styling, carbon fork etc. for any cheaper.

I really appreciate both of your advice. So I'll be saving about $120 so on the wheels but from the others reactions they seem to think that paying over $1000 for a build is too much. What do you think, is $1300 too much to pay for a new fixie? I don't see how else I can get everything the way I want it with the aero styling, carbon fork etc. for any cheaper.

co-op/used parts can cut that price down considerably

$1300 isn't really "too much" when building a bike from the ground up but it is much less expensive to buy a complete bike, just as buying a meal at a restaurant is cheaper than buying items a la carte. But then again, that's the price you pay when you build something to be exactly how you want it.

I'm just about finished with my Leader 725 build and if I had paid retail for the frame, full carbon fork and all the components on it, I would have spent just over $2000. Effing ridiculous.

That fork only has 190mm of steerer, is that the right size for your bike?

You could order a TT fork (http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=List&SubCategory=Parts:%20Forks%20and%20Accessories-Road) for half off at BikeIsland.

I'm just about finished with my Leader 725 build and if I had paid retail for the frame, full carbon fork and all the components on it, I would have spent just over $2000. Effing ridiculous.

Well, if I'd bought everything new and retail on my 721tr, it prolly would have cost about $4000. Even so, and despite using existing wheels, it still cost about $850. Fact is, anyone should be pretty pleased if they manage to keep the total cost below $1K w/o compromising on quality.

That fork only has 190mm of steerer, is that the right size for your bike?

Excellent observation! That fork is meant for a pursuit / TT frame with a very short headtube. I have a 49cm Leader 721tr, and my fork steerer has been cut only 1/2" shorter than that fork, so I doubt it would be suitable for anything but the smallest Leader frame sizes.

You know, I thought about that but wasn't sure and forgot to ask. I'll be using the 53cm, I'm not sure of the headtube length at this moment but I can call my LBS tomorrow. Thanks for saving me a possible pain. They have an uncut version for $20 more but now that I'm trying to lower the cost, the fork might be the next thing I reconsider. I've checked out the bikeisland forks previously but was kind of weary about skimping on the fork considering if it fails it could be really bad. Have you any experience with the quality of their forks?

i mean, leader's are awesome frames but i'd do this:

http://store.citygrounds.com/store/product/8195/2009-Fuji-Track-Pro-Complete-Bike/

and add the brake and rb021s you want, you could come in under a thousand if you sell the deda track drops

Here is a set of new velocity deep v wheels for only $170. I've purchased my set from this seller and it runs great. He supposedly lives down the block from Velocity distributor. Despite his incoherent sentence structure he still provides excellent and lightning quick service.

http://cgi.ebay.com/velocity-fixief-f-hub-track-wheelset-f-r-deep-v-black-/150589804683?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item230fda108b#ht_500wt_922

Thanks for the suggestion. I've looked at the track pros but they're just a little too flashy for me. Kinda stuck on the 725 now, been looking at it for sooo long. The logo-less clean look is appealing to me. Plus I'm kind of looking forward to actually putting my own bike together.

track pro plus a powder coat? still under your original price by hundreds

I'm just about finished with my Leader 725 build and if I had paid retail for the frame, full carbon fork and all the components on it, I would have spent just over $2000. Effing ridiculous.

Last week I was curious as to how much my TET would have costed if I had bought everything new. I ended up with similar figures and was very, very surprised.

The Track Pro is a decent bike but as far as using it as an every day street bike goes, the frame is no way near as durable as as 725.

Steel is real lol.

my boobs are real.

track pro plus a powder coat? still under your original price by hundreds

Thought about it but there's shipping so $949 plus front brake $50, plus rb021s $50, $20 for pedals, $100-$150 of a powder coat but even then only the frame, can't powder coat the carbon fork.

You could get the Moto Team Track from BD.

The Track Pro is a decent bike but as far as using it as an every day street bike goes, the frame is no way near as durable as as 725.

Yeah that's definitely a plus for the 725. I live in NYC too, gotta worry about all those clumsy lugs smacking my frame with their ulocks.

Definitely sticking with the 725. If I'm not mistaken I think Leader has a lifetime warranty on their frames as well.

sorry, hadn't realized the leader was steel, they make a nice frame for sure, just pointing out another option

I love that LBS that you go to and recommend everyone go there. With that being said, you pay what you get for. If you get it through that LBS at least you know you'll be getting the best bike possible. Obviously it'll be way cheaper if you did it yourself (I built my computer and saved 500 dollars doing so) but it's a risk you have to wonder if you're willing to take it. I recently went to that same LBS to inquire about custom wheels and yeah they are expensive but they are gonna build those custom wheels for you with the best parts around. At the moment I'm wondering if I should get custom wheels as my rear wheel bombed from a Flatbush pothole but Velomine has them for way cheaper. If I were in your position (which I kind of am as I am planning to save cash for the 725) I'd totally neglect the carbon fork and custom wheels and you'd save a ****load more.

If there's one thing that's certain from my experience with that LBS is that they will NOT rip you off. They didn't win an award from New Yorker for nothin. Check my review of them under my name here on Yelp for a better idea on my experiences with them.

I'd bring up your concerns with them as they actually are real down to earth. You'd be surprised at how honest they are.

sorry, hadn't realized the leader was steel, they make a nice frame for sure, just pointing out another option

The Leader in question is aluminum.

I personally don't think aluminum makes as good a good locking-up-every-day bike as steel does, but that's a whole other can of worms. My beliefs also don't change the fact that aero tubed aluminum bikes are awesome and I want one.

I love that LBS that you go to and recommend everyone go there. With that being said, you pay what you get for. If you get it through that LBS at least you know you'll be getting the best bike possible. Obviously it'll be way cheaper if you did it yourself (I built my computer and saved 500 dollars doing so) but it's a risk you have to wonder if you're willing to take it. I recently went to that same LBS to inquire about custom wheels and yeah they are expensive but they are gonna build those custom wheels for you with the best parts around. At the moment I'm wondering if I should get custom wheels as my rear wheel bombed from a Flatbush pothole but Velomine has them for way cheaper. If I were in your position (which I kind of am as I am planning to save cash for the 725) I'd totally neglect the carbon fork and custom wheels and you'd save a ****load more.

If there's one thing that's certain from my experience with that LBS is that they will NOT rip you off. They didn't win an award from New Yorker for nothin. Check my review of them under my name here on Yelp for a better idea on my experiences with them.

I'd bring up your concerns with them as they actually are real down to earth. You'd be surprised at how honest they are.

Very true and that has been my experience so far. I'll be calling them today to talk about it. The cost just ended up going past what I was originally hoping to spend even though I'm confident I'll get what I pay for. I just finished buying an engagement ring so my bank account will be hurtin.

As far as the carbon fork is concerned do you think it is necessary to dampen the harshness of the aluminum ride? I've only tested out a friends AL bike and he has a carbon fork, so I have no real comparison. I mentioned it earlier, does anyone have experience with those inexpensive bikeisland carbon forks?

As far as the carbon fork is concerned do you think it is necessary to dampen the harshness of the aluminum ride?

Yes. I've ridden a 275 with an aluminum fork and it was the most disturbingly harsh riding bike I've ever been on. My 725 with a carbon fork is surprisingly soft.

Check out Nashbar for forks too:

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/CatalogSearchResultView?storeId=10053&catalogId=10052&langId=-1&pageSize=16&beginIndex=0&searchType=resultSet&sortBy=Dollar+Rank%2F%2F1&cn1=&searchTerm=carbon+fork

...from the others reactions they seem to think that paying over $1000 for a build is too much. What do you think, is $1300 too much to pay for a new fixie? I don't see how else I can get everything the way I want it with the aero styling, carbon fork etc. for any cheaper.

Don't get me wrong, it isn't too much to pay (in the grand scheme of things) just when I was in a similar position even my head mechanic and sales guy agreed that for a lock-up-able whip, it was over the top. None of that is to say we(and you) weren't on track to build an awesome bike :) I totally encourage you to get exactly the bike you want. Just that if you want to save some money, there are some ways.

Cheers,

WJ

Just FYI: I did a quick tally of the monies I've spent on my Leader, and it turned out to be $825. That is with a $250 frame+fork combo off eBay

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_CwB7pTiEi9U/TaUA37BvSnI/AAAAAAAAByk/Y96miYwmmmo/s800/Leader%20026.JPG

You obviously save a considerable amount of money when you are looking for used parts, good deals, have a good local co-op, or are just really patient. It looks like the OP priced up his build with new parts from mostly online retail stores.

Considering how much money some people put into upgrading their BD bikes, what the OP is proposing isn't so outlandish.

Considering how much money some people put into upgrading their BD bikes, what the OP is proposing isn't so outlandish.

I agree, new parts add up here and there... some components hold their value more than others, but putting together a custom bike with new parts seems to cost around $800+ just for basic stuff... A custom built wheelset can cost as little as $150 but thats about as low as it gets ($50 rimset, $50 hubset, $50 spokes+nipples) so $300 for all-city, deep-v, with upgraded DT spokes seems to be a good price.

There are many different ways to go about building a bike; new, used, buying complete, buying a parts bike, getting free stuff... Some bikes turn out great, while others don't turn out as nice as one hopes. It can be a very expensive hobby, and if I could reflect back on what I've spent, I really would have done things a lot differently.

You never mentioned if this is your first bike or not... If it is, I would highly suggest buying a complete, so you don't end up buying a component you wish you didn't (too long of a stem, to uncomfortable of a seat, not enough adjustments in the seatpost) . . . But if this is another bike added to the fleet and you know what you want, I say go for it and take lots of photos!

yeah the moto team track frame/bike is a great thing. i think that is what the one that is like the fuji is called

You never mentioned if this is your first bike or not... If it is, I would highly suggest buying a complete...

Yes.

You never mentioned if this is your first bike or not... If it is, I would highly suggest buying a complete,

True! Yes I already have a steel fixie that I've been riding around on for about a year and a half which will remain as my bad weather beater. Spring has me craving a new ride!

I'm still debating on the wheels, getting online will save me a good amount of money but will I really be happy in the long run with a possibly lower quality set of wheels.

True! Yes I already have a steel fixie that I've been riding around on for about a year and a half which will remain as my bad weather beater. Spring has me craving a new ride!

I'm still debating on the wheels, getting online will save me a good amount of money but will I really be happy in the long run with a possibly lower quality set of wheels.

to answer your question: Yes. You will be happy.

The only reason I feel to build up a wheelset is if you A) find a great deal on the components B) want to lace up something that you can't just buy off the shelf or C) you want to build something lightweight without spending the money on a pre-built wheel. . . . At least those are my 3 main reasons.

to answer your question: Yes. You will be happy.

The only reason I feel to build up a wheelset is if you A) find a great deal on the components B) want to lace up something that you can't just buy off the shelf or C) you want to build something lightweight without spending the money on a pre-built wheel. . . . At least those are my 3 main reasons.

Great that answers my question. Looks like I'm gonna go for a set off of velomine like Scrod suggested and am looking at cheaper carbon fork options. Now my only question is whether I should compromise on the crankset. The LBS quoted me $120 on an All City crankset.

By the way I called my LBS, 718Cyclery to tell them I was having some second thoughts and they were nothing but awesome. Told me he wouldn't be hurt If I bought all the part I needed online to save money and would be happy to give his opinion on my choices if I sent links. If your in Brooklyn I'd highly suggest these guys.

I rode my 725tr with the aluminum fork that came with it on 42mm deep rims for 2 years. personally i liked how stiff it all was and didn't think it was too harsh. I just recently changed the fork out to a used carbon Alpha Q fork I bought off ebay for $80 a while back. The difference is noticeable, although minimal.
If the new frame comes with a fork, just ride that one. If you decide you want to upgrade after a few months, then you can do so. I think too often people buy new parts without reason, like getting a pair of weinman rims to replace the stock rims on a BD bike. That isn't an upgrade at all and still cost $130

By compromise do you mean the All City crankset is a compromise, or are you looking for a cheaper set? I was going to suggest Omniums @ $165 shipped w/ BB from BikeIsland, but that might be more than you want to pay.