Mountain Biking - X-9 vs XT

I'm debating on upgrading my Deore components to something a little nicer and smoother shifting. I've been eyeballing the new SRAM stuff and it looks incredibly sweet. I don't see much point in splurging on X.0 or XTR stuff as it doesn't seem to offer that much more performance for the huge price difference. Needless to say, I'd like to hear some opinions on quickness of shifts between the two and what the overall pros & cons of each system are. Also, on the SRAM side, I can't decide whether I like the trigger shifters or the twist shifters. I'm not a huge fan of the Deore thumb shifters but that's not to say I'll dislike all trigger shifters.

The Sram stuff is nice but also expensive. I'm sure the XT components will work smoother then the Deore.

I'm debating on upgrading my Deore components to something a little nicer and smoother shifting. I've been eyeballing the new SRAM stuff and it looks incredibly sweet. I don't see much point in splurging on X.0 or XTR stuff as it doesn't seem to offer that much more performance for the huge price difference. Needless to say, I'd like to hear some opinions on quickness of shifts between the two and what the overall pros & cons of each system are. Also, on the SRAM side, I can't decide whether I like the trigger shifters or the twist shifters. I'm not a huge fan of the Deore thumb shifters but that's not to say I'll dislike all trigger shifters.

I have XT shifters w/ XTR derailure. This combo shifts like a dream and keeps the chain tension tight under all conditions. I fell over the other day because the front end washed out on me, got up, the chain was still on properly. Never really used SRAM stuff, but I'm sold on the trigger shifter idea.

Why dont you just get a XT rear derailure and then figure out if you need the shifters as well???

I use x.7 which imo is equal to the XT. Very nice and, I think, crisper shifting. The 1 to 1 ratio feels smoother. It was worthwhile for me.

But I did originally do the deore to xt upgrade. Nice setup and fairly smooth. I just found the shimano deraileur mort sensative to banging and bumping (so far) which would derail how well it worked.

I'm really liking my X.7.

My X.9 is awesome, go with the SRAM, I'm actually considering selling my X.9 derrailauer and shifters, so PM me if you interested(I'm going SS)

I've noticed that the Deore stuff has really weak spring tension, seeing as how I threw the chain from the middle ring over the top ring jumping a curb and threw it off to the inside coming down a small dirt slope then off a 6 inch drop. Oddly, my last bike had a STX-RC rear derailleur and I never had such problems. It's not exactly the slickest or quickest shifting stuff on earth either. I think I'm about to go to a couple of the bike shops and just ride bikes with both component sets and see which I like better. I just can't think of any right off-hand that are spec'd with X-9 stuff. :(

I've noticed that the Deore stuff has really weak spring tension, seeing as how I threw the chain from the middle ring over the top ring jumping a curb and threw it off to the inside coming down a small dirt slope then off a 6 inch drop. Oddly, my last bike had a STX-RC rear derailleur and I never had such problems. It's not exactly the slickest or quickest shifting stuff on earth either. I think I'm about to go to a couple of the bike shops and just ride bikes with both component sets and see which I like better. I just can't think of any right off-hand that are spec'd with X-9 stuff. :(
sounds more like a tune up issue then a "let's spend $200 and replace something" issue.

Perhaps so... but I feel like spending $200 and replacing something. sue me!

X.7 is workin really well for me. The shifting is super solid and the derailluer is super tough, and rarely needs to be adjusted.

I use last generation XT on my trail bike and when it goes (or I get bored whichever comes first) I'm switching to SRAM X-9. I can't stand Shi*No's new "Rapid Rise" system. the only thing that should be rapid rise is yeast.

I like my alivio. LOL.

I have noticed no difference between x7 and x9. BOth work wonderfully, and are more cost effecient when compared to shimano. THe 1:1 thing is nice though. Theres some video on angry asian.com comparing the derailleurs....

I had a 2001 XTR derailleur on one of my older bikes and liked it quite a bit. I don't really see why rapid rise is such a bad thing.. seems like it'd make going up the cogs faster and more precise. Perhaps I'm wrong.

I had a 2001 XTR derailleur on one of my older bikes and liked it quite a bit. I don't really see why rapid rise is such a bad thing.. seems like it'd make going up the cogs faster and more precise. Perhaps I'm wrong.Except for the fact that EVERYTHING else is high normal as opposed to the new low normal Shi*No stuff. Prior to this "innovation" the only thing they had that was "rapid rise" was a real POS derailieur on the level of the stuff on Walmart bikes.
That plus the fact that I HATE those flippy levers Shi*No is pushing these days.
Give me triggers or give me DEATH

im too poor to upgrade from my crappy altus but if i did id probably get x.7 srams cause i hear good things and they are as hella expensive as the x.9

I tested Sh*tNo's STI style brake/shifter and dropping off of a curb with my hand on the brake prompted a shift. Piece Of Sh*t.

That would seriously be annoying as all hell.. That was one of my major concerns with the dual control levers.

That was the one comment I made...I was like every time I'm going to brake I'll end up shifting gears. That would annoy me

I think the issue isn't so much pulling back and accidentally shifting.. it's having your hands on the brake levers and hiting a large drop or bump and shifting unintentionally... That's the issue I'd have.

That's the issue I have with them.

a bit off topic here but I was just looking at the shimano site, and there is a link there that led to this product line - http://www.ridesaint.com/

never seen that stuff - is it any good? looks geared (what a pun!) towards freeride/northshore types.

AND good god....what in the world are these??

http://www.smover.com/publish/content/smover/en/smovers.html

experts enlighten us.

:)

a bit off topic here but I was just looking at the shimano site, and there is a link there that led to this product line - http://www.ridesaint.com/

never seen that stuff - is it any good? looks geared (what a pun!) towards freeride/northshore types.

AND good god....what in the world are these??

http://www.smover.com/publish/content/smover/en/smovers.html

experts enlighten us.

:)Saint is the "freeride group" I have no real opinion on it due to the fact that in order to use the rear derailieur you HAVE to use the Saint hub. Other companies offer equivelent produts for the rest of the group.
The Smover

A Smover is a new and innovative style of bicycle, specially developed to create an easy and comfortable style of cycling using the latest in human engineering, frame development and Shimano component technology with integrated electronic control. Smover does offer a special ergonomic design of the frame and all related products and uses the latest technology together with a smart and efficient supply to offer a simple and worry free handling and function for an enjoyable ride.
Looks like a test bed for some of there new stuff built into a comfort / commuter style. I'm not cool with the electronic auto shift stuff but the electronic suspension sounds promising.

interesting....thanks.

I just checked out the xtr site, it showed a littel video of how the dual levers work...sketchy. Anyone have them and really like them? I think I am going to stick to xt rapid-fire and xtr rear derailleur. that is the best combo i have ever found....

interesting....thanks.

I just checked out the xtr site, it showed a littel video of how the dual levers work...sketchy. Anyone have them and really like them? I think I am going to stick to xt rapid-fire and xtr rear derailleur. that is the best combo i have ever found....
It's a love it or leave it kind of deal. I know many people who hate them and only a couple who actually like them.

I guess I'll see tomorrow if they have any at the LBS.

been using Shimano XTR and SRAM x.9 on my bikes now for two years.
I prefer the XTR over the X.9.

also I prefer the Dual Control shifters over triggers but like Gripshifts so the X.9 is gripshift.

Under riding conditions:

The XTR dual control does not shift if you hit bumps if don't rest your weight on the levers. I can brake and down shift or upshift at teh same time while keeping my thumb wrapped around the bars for max control. Trigger shifter don;t allow this because you thumb is resting on a lever.

I'll keep my SRAM bike gripshift but the Dual control is where the ergonomics is at at this moment.

top kit that can;t be faulted, except by free ridy types who feel the need to continually break things to increase their cool factor

been using Shimano XTR and SRAM x.9 on my bikes now for two years.
I prefer the XTR over the X.9.

also I prefer the Dual Control shifters over triggers but like Gripshifts so the X.9 is gripshift.

Under riding conditions:

The XTR dual control does not shift if you hit bumps if don't rest your weight on the levers. I can brake and down shift or upshift at teh same time while keeping my thumb wrapped around the bars for max control. Trigger shifter don;t allow this because you thumb is resting on a lever.

I'll keep my SRAM bike gripshift but the Dual control is where the ergonomics is at at this moment.

top kit that can;t be faulted, except by free ridy types who feel the need to continually break things to increase their cool factor

This is full of innaccuracies, X.9 is not gripshift. The impulse shifters are easy to use with one finger. One finger on the shifter and one finger on the brake lever, peice of cake with the X.7/X.9. Save the dual control crap to the road folks. Freeriders breaking things to be cool is a bunch of BS as well. Because of our nature of beating on the equipment parts fail quicker than with pansy with xc where the biggest obstacle is a smallish bump and freak out because it can break the bike, stop, dismount walk bike over the small bump and continue on until the next small bump.

The Sram stuff is nice but also expensive. I'm sure the XT components will work smoother then the Deore.


Not sure where this came from. X.9 Shifter and Rear Der can be had for $119. Hardly even $200 much less more than XT Shifters and Der.

KonaRider, go easy on a sissy XC Riders. I don't disagree with you on his inaccuracies and stupid comments but no need to diss us weight weenies that prefer speed to jumps! :)

KonaRider, go easy on a sissy XC Riders. I don't disagree with you on his inaccuracies and stupid comments but no need to diss us weight weenies that prefer speed to jumps! :)

I know, I have no expectations of having a xc ride with big jumps and a bunch of drops, I just think it is sad that a Pro XC racer will dismount and walk the bike over a small patch of roots.

I know, I have no expectations of having a xc ride with big jumps and a bunch of drops, I just think it is sad that a Pro XC racer will dismount and walk the bike over a small patch of roots.

I consider myself to be an XC/Aggressive XC, but I have never considered walking anything, and always try something at least once. That is sad that someone wants a bike so light that they worry about breaking it...

Whats the 1:1 ratio deal with the X.x stuff? and how much difference in spring tension/ smoothness does an XT have over a regular Deore piece? Whats up with the rapid rise? someone gots some splainnin todo

Whats the 1:1 ratio deal with the X.x stuff? and how much difference in spring tension/ smoothness does an XT have over a regular Deore piece? Whats up with the rapid rise? someone gots some splainnin todo

Or, someone else has some research to do...

Or, someone else has some research to do...
Helpful fellow aren't you.

http://www.sram.com/en/service/sram/faq.php?faqID=c20ad4d76fe97759aa27a0c99bff6710

http://www.sram.com/en/service/sram/faq.php?faqID=c20ad4d76fe97759aa27a0c99bff6710

So theres no real benefit of the 1:1 ratio over the 1:2 ratio, other then being "unique" (read; more proprietary parts to buy during upgrade/downgrade)..?
Thinking logically, it would seem a larger ratio, would be more beneficial, easier to shift (less thumb/fore finger movement, allowing more leverage), would use smaller shifting mechs/pods, and would aid in faster shifting from cog to cog (1mm of shifter movement = 2 or more mm of derailer movement). Am I missing something here?

Helpful fellow aren't you.

Just trying to push you to be independant, at expense of myself.

It's the other way around... I rode an X-9 equipped bike today and one stroke of the thumb shifter moves the derailleur through its entire motion. You can basically shift from 9 to 1 in one sweep of the thumb lever. With my Deore components, it's about 3 strokes to move the entire sweep. The only thing I thought was odd was the placement of the lever to go from larger cog to smaller. It's actually a press UPWARDS directly in front of the other lever. It would take some getting used to, but it was incredibly smooth shifting. I was pretty impressed.

Trust me, you WILL love it once you get used to it. You can blast through gears under hard hammering no-problem.

I'm tempted to go for it, though I'm not sure how well I'll adjust to the odd placement of the downshift lever. It was really smooth and such, though... Oddly it had the X-7 shifter with X-9 rear derailleur

The 1:1 thing with Sram started with their GripShift system. They had to change the ratio in order to get the proper spacing. Even though GripShift does make a 2:1 ratio (Shimano compatible) shifter (The Attack), it is not as precise and requires constant tuning. Since SRAM made so many claims about the benefits of 1:1, they stuck with it when they went to triggers.

The thing I really like about SRAM is the direct routing of the shift cable into the derailleur. With a Shimano system you have to have a wide loop in the cable. A shorter cable = crisper shift. and a better feel. Plus, less friction due to lack of a tight bend in the housing.

I'm running an XTR system right now and have no problems with it. However, it is old skool ('00 vintage) and 8-speed. I'm no retro grouch in most things, but I never understood the benefit of a 9-speed system. It's more finicky to set-up, requires more frequent tuning, is more delicate and clogs quicker.

When I was running 9-speed on my bike, I had constant problems with broken chains, ghost shifts, weeds in the cassette.....etc. I went back to 8-speed and eliminated almost all my shifting woes.

My next system will most likely be a Sram set-up.

Just putting off going back to 9-speed as long as possilble. As long as NOS 8-speed stuff is still available, that's what you'll find on my bikes.

X.7 is 8/9 speed compatible.

Kona, how would that work?

The spacing for 8 is different for 9. Am I missing something?

It says on the spec sheets for them that the x.7 is 8/9.

Too bad the 2005 XTR is prohibitively expensive... Even going with the X.0 is infinitely cheaper than the entire 05 XTR system. I didn't see much of a difference between the x-9 and the X.0, so I figured I'd save some cash and get the X-9 set. That's an interesting point about the cable routing on the SRAM stuff. I didn't really notice the lack of the huge loop in the back on the SRAM derailleur.

It says on the spec sheets for them that the x.7 is 8/9.

I'd assume that means it'll work on an 8/9 freehub.

CAN you set up the x.7 to work as an 8-speed?

That would be a very nice feature, but I don't understand how they could engineer that compatibility as the spacing is different on the cassettes.

It can be set up to work as an 8speed.

Did NOT know that!

Schweet dude! (Think Cartman voice)

Almost every derailleur I know of that does 9 can also be setup to work with 8 speed rear casettes. Even though the spacing is different, it's still within the range that the derailleur can handle. I can't imagine it working properly on a 7 speed hub, though.

The derailleur isn't the question. All 8 or 9 speeds will work due to the overall width of the cassette being equal, the derailleur "throw" will be the same.

I've just always thought (or led to believe) that the amount of cable pull at the shifter corresponds to the spacing of the cogs in the cassette. So, if you run an 8-speed cassette, you NEED 8-speed shifters, and conversly 9 spd cassettes you need a 9-speed shifter.

What Kona is saying is that you can use the new X.7 9 spd shifters WITH an 8 speed cassette. True Kona?

I didn't think this was possible, but I learn something new everyday.