Touring - Bears

To keep hungry bears away from the tent, it's a good idea to cache food and any objects with an odour. This includes toothpaste and other items that might not be edible as well as dried foods in packages. Even if we can't smell them, bears can. Do you also include canned foods? If not, where and how do you store them?

Campgrounds in bear country will sometimes have lockers or poles and cables to allow campers to store their food where the bears can't access it. Those doing wild camping do not have these facilities and must use other methods.

How do you store food in bear country? Does anyone here tour with a bear cache container? This allows storing of food securely in areas where tall trees might not be available. The drawback is the price, at $80 for a 10-litre container.

Other negatives of the canisters are weight, bulk, and limited capacity.

Although it will not pass muster where canisters are required, I find that a chain mail bag (http://www.simpleoutdoorstore.com/outsak.html#outsak animal resistant storage bag)is easily suspended in bear country and keeps non-bear critters out of my food when not in bear country.

These things (http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442631808&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302888091) are better suited for bicycle touring than the barrel containers. Dry sacs also work well, and are multi-functional.

Other negatives of the canisters are weight, bulk, and limited capacity.
I especially agree on the weight. Most are between two and three pounds. That has been enough to discourage me from using one on tour so far. Depending on where I tour in the future I might consider using a canister especially since I own one, but for me and extra 2.5 pounds is a big negative.

Capacity is generally way more than I typically need on a bike tour and I am also usually not too limited on bulk. If needed it could always be strapped on top of the rear rack.

The price I don't consider a huge deal. I wanted one for backpacking any way and $80 didn't break the bank.

i hang food to the best of my abilities, everything, toiletries, etc.

in bona fide grizzly country, i practice the double rope hang method and a large, triangle camp with food/cooking/sleeping separated by at least 100 yards. black bear country, i aim for 30 yards separation.

at a designated campground, i hang the food near other people's tents. just kidding, kind of.

http://www.mountainzone.com/how-to-articles/viewproarticle.asp?aid=312&pid=2

I picked up a bear cannister at an REI garage sale for under $40. It was a returned item, but given that the whole idea is that it's basically indestructible, I figure used is probably as good as new. I haven't decided if I'm going to carry it with me or not, though. I have found that it fits (very snuggly) in one of my Nashbar panniers, so if I dedicate one, whole pannier to eating (and I suspect that I will), it doesn't seem like a big volume penalty. I've already established that my cooking gear would fit inside with plenty of room left for food. I'm considering putting some type of insulation in the bottom few inches and making a cooler section.

The only "tour" on my horizon is a few days of riding out to and up the coast. Only one night of that ride will be in "official" black bear territory, with a 2nd night in possible black bear territory (in that there have been sightings, but it's not considered likely to find them there). I could just hang my food, but the bear cannister will keep other critters out as well, some of which might not mind climbing to get at my food, and it doubles as a camp stool. I think the camp stool aspect may be one of the most appealing as I was looking at the possibility of carrying some kind of chair, but I abandoned the idea due to weight, bulk, and general awkwardness of fitting any kind of chair into my gear, so the idea of a chair that does double duty as my kitchen has some appeal even apart from the bear protection aspects.

But so far the only time the bear cannister has been on my bike was on the way home from REI, so more testing is in order. There will probably be some overnights where I take it just to see how convenient it is to carry.

We did the triangle thing too - we stopped to cook dinner an hour or so before we were ready to stop for the day, then cleaned everything really well, cycled another hour, then camped. That took care of the cooking smells. We had our food in dry bags, so hauled them way far away from the tent - along with shampoo and toothpaste and everything that smelled. We never had a problem in our campsite at all.

We did the triangle thing too - we stopped to cook dinner an hour or so before we were ready to stop for the day, then cleaned everything really well, cycled another hour, then camped. That took care of the cooking smells. We had our food in dry bags, so hauled them way far away from the tent - along with shampoo and toothpaste and everything that smelled. We never had a problem in our campsite at all.

I find it curious that people even tour with any amount of food to worry about. I've toured in grizzly country and there was always a town or convienience store every 10-30 miles. I always had a couple granola bars that I kept 50 yrds away, in a tree, from where I camped. I always ate and cleaned everything an hour before and 5 miles from where I slept. In the morning I jumped on the bike and ate a couple granola bars till I could get to the next store. I've taken two cross continent tours without any cooking. What's the point? It just adds weight.

Along with Nancy SV's methods I add an Ursack (http://www.ursack.com/index.html) bag that is bear and critter resistant. The Kevlar/spectra material has served me well in bear country of Montana, Idaho, Alberta and British Columbia on bike tours such as the Divide Ride and on kayak tours in Alaska. I either hang it if a tree is available or tie it to a long tent stake I pound into the ground or tie it to a tree stump or rock outcropping. It has kept the critters large and small from taking my food cache for almost a decade.

The newer versions have an optional aluminum insert for rigidity and odor proof storage bags not available 10 years ago when I first bought the Ursack. A useful tool on tour in my experience.

I find it curious that people even tour with any amount of food to worry about. I've toured in grizzly country and there was always a town or convienience store every 10-30 miles. I always had a couple granola bars that I kept 50 yrds away, in a tree, from where I camped. I always ate and cleaned everything an hour before and 5 miles from where I slept. In the morning I jumped on the bike and ate a couple granola bars till I could get to the next store. I've taken two cross continent tours without any cooking. What's the point? It just adds weight.

We obviously haven't toured the same places you have! For the first 2000 miles of our journey (from Prudhoe Bay, Alaske to the end of the Alaska Highway) the CLOSEST towns were 200 miles apart. 300 -350 miles wasn't uncommon. The farthest was 500 miles. When you're traveling those distances with kids, you aren't doing 150 miles/day. It's a LOT of food!!!

+1 for the Ursack. Best when hung from a large rock formation (bears don't rock climb, just climb trees). If a steel food locker is provided I always make use of it. I never had a problem in Black or Brown bear country, even when hanging my food and trash from a tree. I also have a Garcia canister I sometimes use backpacking because it is required in some areas of California (nuissance black bears).

I have a full sized BearVault (http://www.bearvault.com/), which weights 2lb 9oz. I picked it up at a REI scratch and dent sale for $20. Since my food plan is to stock up where it's cheap and eat out of my stores when I'm out in the boonies, and I like my camp cooking, the weight of the container is a drop in the bucket with all the food I'll be carrying. I don't plan on using it, however, until I have a trailer to put it in.

Just a caution to anyone else using a BearVault. The one I bought was among 6 or so which had been returned. Most where returned because the buyer could not figure out how to open the lid. One, however, had deep gouges in the lid and the tag read "Returned: bear got in". It could be that it wasn't properly secured, though. At very least, no raccoon should ever get into my food with it.

Once while car camping at Sequoia N. P. I had too many boxes of stuff. Rather than rearrange it so that all the food would go in the bear box, I decided that canned goods were okay left out because the bears certainly couldn't smell through a sealed can, could they? While I slept 20 feet away a bear took all the cans out of the cardboard box (without even knocking the box off the picnic table bench.) It left the canned vegetables alone, but ripped the top of the can of B & M Baked Beans and licked it clean. My conclusion was that not only could the bear smell the food in the cans, it could differentiate and choose the most appealing food (and that it wasn't fond of vegetable, but was very fond of beans cured in brown sugar and pork fat!)

While biking I use an Ursack. I don't know if it will totally defeat a bear, but I don't want to bring my bear vault. I've brought it backpacking and it's heavy! I hang my food bag. If a bear gets it and shreds it, at least my Ortliebs won't be shredded. The Ursack is also tough enough to defeat squirrels, which I've seen chew through backpacks and tents.

I find it curious that people even tour with any amount of food to worry about. I've toured in grizzly country and there was always a town or convienience store every 10-30 miles.

I try to not carry more food than necessary, but... I would say that I have often found stores to be farther apart than "every 10-30 miles".


I've taken two cross continent tours without any cooking. What's the point?

One point is that touring is supposed to be fun and for at least some of us eating well is part of that fun.

I have not had to worry about bears on bike trips because the areas I went to were pretty safe. In the boundary waters canoe area (Minnesota/Canada border) where bears are an issue, I hang food in a dry bag.

From the first photo you can see how I use two lines, a couple carabiners and a couple rescue pulleys to get it up high and away from the tree trunk.

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There was a lot of slope and I was uphill from the food bag when I took the photo, so it is much higher off of the ground than it looks in the photo.

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Bears are not your only problem, small rodents can make a mess of things.

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But generally these animals offer more photo opportunities and don't get away with much food.

200047

I find it curious that people even tour with any amount of food to worry about. I've toured in grizzly country and there was always a town or convienience store every 10-30 miles. I always had a couple granola bars that I kept 50 yrds away, in a tree, from where I camped. I always ate and cleaned everything an hour before and 5 miles from where I slept. In the morning I jumped on the bike and ate a couple granola bars till I could get to the next store. I've taken two cross continent tours without any cooking. What's the point? It just adds weight.
My experiences are different.

Where I live, if I travel east or west, I can go stretches of 100 kilometres between stores. On one road, there's a store 50 kilometres from any community. It isn't always open. On other country roads, there are occasional stores with limited hours, limited selection and high prices. In the northern parts of many Canadian provinces and in the Arctic, the stores are much farther apart. Touring in those areas demands a degree of self-sufficiency. And on some roads, water also becomes a critical need as it is not always readily available.

If you're touring in a built-up area, then it's easy to stop for the night near a town and pick up a bit of food when you get there. If you're in the more open spaces, then other solutions are needed.

I'm about to embark on my Alaska-Canada Tour (http://ziligy.com/wp/) and have decided to go with the BearVault. The weight hit is big but because its required in many parks I'm going with it. (http://ziligy.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/LHT-Alaska-Equiped.jpg)

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/307630-5-days-of-Hell-and-almost-eaten-by-Wolves!?p=10760690&highlight=#post10760690

I find it curious that people even tour with any amount of food to worry about. I've toured in grizzly country and there was always a town or convienience store every 10-30 miles. I always had a couple granola bars that I kept 50 yrds away, in a tree, from where I camped. I always ate and cleaned everything an hour before and 5 miles from where I slept. In the morning I jumped on the bike and ate a couple granola bars till I could get to the next store. I've taken two cross continent tours without any cooking. What's the point? It just adds weight.

As others mention, it depends where you tour. I've ridden the Dempster (Inuvik), Dalton (Prudhoe Bay), Alaska highways as well as around Australia and across Siberia. In all those places, there are considerably larger gaps between 10-30 miles. I've found ways to get by with "no cook" foods in those places sometimes 2-3 days and travel a little quicker than Nancy was traveling. However, that still means carrying some food. There weren't bears in Australia or Russia where I rode, though still want to watch wild animals.

I've been a little more lackadaisical about hanging things up, generally keeping food out of my tent and otherwise parking my bike with panniers a little ways away from the tent. So far, I've had two instances of larger wild animals getting into things: one was in Russia where some animal (my guess was a dog) got hold of my food bag and stole it from the bike. I cycled ~50km before being able to replenish so not a huge thing. The second was at a provincial campground in YT. They had bear-proof garbage cans but not lockers. Some animal (my guess was a bear), ripped open a pannier - left stuff on the ground including a lot of interesting claw marks on the plastic peanut butter container I was carrying. Safety pins helped me keep pannier together after that.

I've probably had at least as much fun with small things like ants getting into the panniers and food when parked. That was a bigger deal in Australia.

So I agree that one can get pretty far without cooking, for some extra cost, and occasionally a stretch of eating no-cook foods; particularly if one is in the lower 48.

Not much experience touring (once around Lake Superior), but much experience backpacking in bear country. Highly recommend hanging in stuff sacks. Get a 5 or 6 mil nylon cord (often called parachute cord) and sew/tie a small canvas bag to it - about the size of your fist and having a cinch closure. You will fill this bag with rocks/dirt to throw over branches. Probably 30 feet of cord is good; ideally the bag is at least 10 feet off the ground and 5 feet from branches. Mother bears often send cubs up after the food! You want to make sure that the bags hang enough that rodents don't have easy access. I've found that beefy nylon stuff sacks work well, especially if they have a strap sewn into the bottom. I tie off the opening and hang them upside down to help keep away rodents. Above tree line, you can sometimes find rocks to hang from. As mentioned above, check food storage regulations in your area. Black bears are WAY more of a problem than Grizzlys where I've been. Black bears are like big racoons! If you know there are no trees or regulations require it, go with the canisters. Carrying them is better than losing your dinner/habituating bears to eat us!

I like my Bear Vault. I keep some food in it--Coffee most importantly and 1st breakfast (bagels, buns, whatever), and emergency rations. I dearly love to brush my teeth, and to have soap when theres water to bathe. No food or toiletries have EVER entered my panniers, handlebar bag or tent, and I have seen no evidence of animal intrusion. I do have a few scratches from whatever, probably not bears, on the Vault. But like the hikers say, "hike your own hike." So I say ride your own ride, and if you want to hang--hang. If you want to Vault--Vault. And if you want to do nothing--do nothing. But that's just me.

OK, here's a question for you experienced folks. Where I live, and do most of my camping, there are trees in abundance. But they're almost all pine trees. Now pine trees look nice, and smell great but one thing they aren't good for is supporting hanging bags of food.

Because pine trees are much narrower at the top than they are at the bottom. So to throw a rope (even tied to a stick or a rock) over the higher branches is an exercise in futility. Usually it just gets tangled in the lower branches.

And even once do manage to get the rope up there, the higher branches are invariably thin and flimsy. So the weight of your food bag simply pulls them down and the rope slips off.

And even if you manage to get the rope onto a high enough branch, and it's strong enough to hold your bag, any bear worthy of the name could easily climb up and help themselves, not matter how high you tie it.

So when you tour in pine tree country...what do you do?

We had that problem too. Up in the tundra, there are no trees. Once we got into tree country, the trees were too small to be of any help. And then we had trees that wouldn't support the weight of our food.

We ended up putting everything in a dry bag and placing the dry bag way far away from the tent on the ground. We hoped the bears didn't get into it, but figured the worst that would happen would be that we would go hungry if they did.

As much as everyone talks about hanging food, the reality is that there are times when you simply can't - and you do the best you can in those situations.

Nancy, that's part of the reason I'm leaning heavily to the bear canister. In the Arctic and in scrub country or dry land farther south, the trees are not always plentiful, or they may not be suitable for hanging food.

We considered the bear canisters, but the quantity of food we had to carry made them impossible. Food for 4 people for 15 days is a LOT of food!! We went with the dry bags and didn't have any problem, but if the bear canisters are doable, that's probably a much better idea than what we did.

Oh boy. I had one of those situations where we were in heavy bear country and only had scrubby trees so could not hang a bear bag. We tied dry bags together tightly then tied to a stump so they could not be dragged off. In less than five minutes we had our answer as to was it good enough. No. The bear (who MUST have been following us!) first grabbed the bags and tried to run off. The bags pulled out of it's mouth when he hit the end of the rope but he just came back and had the bags open in less than two seconds (and did not use the nice buckles to open them). After five minutes of eating and ignoring our noise making he started to lumber off with a bag of gorp. I decided to be sure he kept going and started to chase it and throw rocks and pinecones. Bad idea number two. Now I was running at a bear three times my size and was between the bear and the rest of our food. The bear turned around a d charged me. Bad situation as I was still running at a four hundred pound bear that was now running at me and i was armed with only pinecones. I have to say that the old joke momentarily came into my mind that I do not really have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun my friend. I turned around and must have looked like something out od an old roadrunner cartoon with my legs spinning like a paddlewheel. Fortunatelly once I got past the food the bear just stopped at it and ate the rest of what he wanted. Dominance was now clearly established. We went two days more on a single can of tuna and a packet of Spatini dry spaghetti sauce mix before we could restock.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/307630-5-days-of-Hell-and-almost-eaten-by-Wolves!?p=10760690&highlight=#post10760690

Love the sign - thanks for the laugh.:roflmao2:

I've backpacked in to bear country. We had trees though and tied up all of our food / smelly items in sacks high up in a tree. We found bear tracks right next to our camp area, but didn't have any problems (might have been the season... I think the bears had plenty to eat, and their habits depend greatly on this).

If you didn't have problems with bears, it is partly because they haven't been habituated in that area to associate people with easy food. Please don't just leave out your food for the bears to eat! When in areas with poor trees, you can use canisters or rig up a line between multiple trees. Look for aspens or dead trees that lean against others. Few places with trees have no options. But, as other people said, sometimes you're in the plains... Use a canister. If you have a lot of food, it means you may have to find multiple trees, but you have more people to do it! Every once in a while I've just left it hanging on a low branch (away from mice) or sitting out...

Would bears eat dry grains such as rice or oats? Or should those things go up in the air, too...
I've never been in bear country before, so have absolutely no experience. Is there any food stuff that won't attract bears?

Bears will eat anything you will and more. The poster above that charged the bear is lucky he got away, what a stupid thing to do. Bear attacks are rare but it's pretty easy to avoid them if you follow simple bear country rules.

Never eat in your tent, the food smell will remain ,
and some claw may wake you in the night.

What are basic bear country rules? I really have little idea what to do, other than don't run, and don't have food near where you camp.

White Blaze website offers a compendium of bear country advice. My advice is to read it there, i wish. In my previous post I was wrong to say, "do nothing." It is our responsibility to protect the bears from "others," of course "we" would do nothing to harm bears. Human supplies, from apples to Z-Bars, must be kept from all animals, bears, especially, but also coons, possums, rats, squirrels, etc. lest they become acclimated and become "pack scavengers." Many dollars worth of equipment can be destroyed overnight by ambitious animals, and they will continue to raid when the raids are successful. Just clarifying....

Bear Vault is heavier than hanging options, but it serves as a stool, and on the occasional rainy day, I find it pleasant to stay in camp, sit on the Vault, under the extra silnylon tarp that I carry, since I sleep in a hammock, eating the emergency rations and reading a book.

These articles are from the Parks Canada website.

This one is entitled, "You are in Black Bear Country". Read the whole thing ... all the sidebar links.
http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/v-g/oursnoir-blackbear/index.aspx

"As a national park visitor, you share this natural area with bears and other wildlife that depend on it for their survival. Although bears are naturally wary of humans, they are unpredictable. By increasing your knowledge of bear behaviour, you can help reduce the likelihood of an unpleasant encounter, and at the same time, help protect the black bear population."


And this one is "Keep the Wild in Wildlife - You Are in Bear Country". This article also talks about other wildlife, like Elks which can be an issue too. Read all the sidebar links too.
http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/pc/guide/nature/nature02.aspx

This is a brief part of all the information available on those links:

Bears are naturally wary of humans, and generally choose to avoid us. However, bears may threaten and even attack people when they become accustomed to humans, when they are surprised, or when they are forced to defend them- selves, their young or their food.

"Reduce Your Risk
•Make noise! Let bears know you're there – call out, clap hands, sing or talk loudly – especially near streams, dense vegetation and berry patches, on windy days, and in areas of low visibility.
•Travel in groups, on established paths and trails, and during daylight hours.
•Keep food smells away from bears by properly storing food, garbage and food-related items, day and night, wherever you are. Even empty pet food bowls can attract bears.
•Stay alert, stay alive! Watch for bears in the area and for their sign – tracks, droppings, diggings, torn-up logs, and turned-over rocks. Leave the area if you see fresh sign.
•If you come across large dead animals, leave the area immediately and report it to Park Wardens.
•Dispose of fish offal in fast moving streams or the deep part of a lake, never along streamsides or lakeshores.
•Never approach or feed a bear. Keep a distance of at least 100 metres.
•Report all sightings of bears to park staff."

Wow, thanks Machka!
That was very helpful:thumb:

Took my Bear Vault on a mini trip this weekend. I wasn't in bear country, but I wanted to test it from a touring/packing/carrying perspective. Personally, if I never have it tested by having a bear actually trying to get at my food, I'm fine with that.

It does add some weight. I have a hard time gauging what effect a given amount of weight has, and I tend to think that shaving off a pound here and an ounce there doesn't make much difference. As a result, I probably carry way more weight then necessary, because I don't examine the cumulative effect of lots of small bits of extra weight.

I have the larger size of bear vault. I thought I could put all of my food and cooking supplies into it, and I probably could have, but 1) I over packed, and 2) I did a little "mod" on my bear cannister that removed some space. In the end, all of my food went in, but my cookware went into another pannier. Would I need to then hang the cookware? Or would it be safe as long as it was relatively clean? If I had to hang it separately, then I might as well hang all my food/cooking stuff and leave the Vault at home unless the other uses of the vault seemed worthwhile.

One large benefit I thought it would have was as a camp stool. It's functional as that, but I also found that even the "primitive" campsites I stayed at had a picnic table or a bench. But after one rainy night, the wooden bench was soaked, so a quick wipe of the Bear Vault and I had the only dry seat in the house. Well, until my traveling companion dropped a waterproof jacket or pad on to the bench and sat down.

I have Nashbar panniers that are pretty roomy. The Vault fits in there quite snugly. Not much room for anything else and, once my food was packed in, it became my largest and heaviest pannier. But again, it's all in what you pack. I had to pitch some food on the way because it had gotten too warm, and I returned home with a good amount of uneaten food, so clearly I packed more than I needed and could have gone lighter. Also, with the Nashbar pannier, the fit is tight enough to make the back of the pannier a little rounded. You have to take extra care to get the hooks on, and some additional measures to secure it wouldn't be a bad idea.

There was another idea I had for the Bear Vault. In addition to a stool and food protection, I thought it might work as a cooler, and I think it works, sort of. I took a blue, closed cell foam pad and cut a circle for the bottom, a strip for the sides (that goes maybe a third of the way up the cannister), and another circle to serve as a lid. I also put pieces of space blanket between the foam and the wall of the cannister. No idea if this had any effect, but it seemed worth a try. Inside I put half a dozen eggs, a chunk of cheese, a couple of veggie dogs, and a flexible water bottle, half filled and frozen. That took up most of the available room in the cooler section and took up at least a third of the whole cannister, forcing my cookware into another bag. Packed up around 8:00 in the morning. There was still ice in the water bottle when I had dinner. It was still cold at breakfast the next day, but I didn't see any ice. By lunch time it was not as cool, and I didn't have any prospects for getting ice for the rest of the day, so I pitched my uneaten veggie dogs, but my remaining eggs and cheese were eaten the following morning with no worries. I need a way to add ice on the road: a sealable container of some sort because the water bottle has too narrow of a mouth for ice cubes, and you don't want to just throw ice in or everything in the bear vault will end up wet. So if you're camping in bear country and you like carrying cold food, the bear vault may do the job.

I may continue to use the Bear Vault even when outside of bear country. I'm not sure. But I like having the option of carrying cold foods, and most other coolers also have a weight penalty and are awkward to pack. I like the idea of having some kind of chair for when there isn't one. And I like not having to worry about my food. Even though I wasn't in bear country, I was warned when checking in to the campground that racoons had learned well that campers = food, and that food left out would be taken, but my bear vault survived a night alone just fine, although I heard the raccoons skittering around the campground almost as soon as we retreated to our tents. This may also be a useful feature depending on your situation. If you're not in bear country, you might pull food into your tent to protect it, but I have a hammock tent, so most of what goes in it is me. I definitely won't be taking my food in with me, so a little extra protection is nice.

Basically in my brief test, I found the vault to be fill a number of useful roles, although it is not the easiest nor lightest item to carry, and the one thing I didn't test was its primary function: keeping bears from eating your food.