Touring - Pedals for Touring

I searched for a thread on this, did not see one?
I am looking for the opinions of riders who haul heavy loads so long that at the end of the day each foot must be lifted from the pedal by hand as legs are petered out.
I meet many who prefer platform pedals while touring.
Most the guys I see who use clip-less are new to load hauling. Clip-less or Not..........I like both.
I have some issues with platforms,,,,and some with clip-less.
Clip-less means extra shoes,,,,,I been walking in my shoes with cleats and my feet are NOT happy.
My question is this, At the end of the hard day, (Old fat guy here)
Which pedal will make my legs work harder? With heavy loads.
Which pedal is the most fuel efficient?
Do you have any concerns about safety when you try to get off the bike after a l o n g l o n g day? You know, getting un-clipped,,,,,,,,

I just switched to BMX platforms with straps (retrogression) for my touring bike, and I like them so much I might buy a pair for my touring bike. Currently I have MKS touring pedals with clips and straps. Personally I like using a trail running shoe when touring so I don't have to carry an extra pair of non-cycling shoes and I can use them for hiking. This showed a benefit when I met some other tourists at jenny lake who wanted to hike, but they only had clipless mountain bike shoes and flip flops. It was sad to leave them behind to stroll around the lake while I hiked in the backcountry.

Shimano PDA530 or PDM324. Both feature platform on one side and SPD cleat on the other. As these are mountian cleats you can get shoes or sandals which are more comfortable to walk in.

I use low cost BMX platforms on my Surly LHT and Bike Friday NWT touring bikes. They work great and it's so nice to be able to wear street shoes on tour.

Clip-less means extra shoes,,,,,

No it doesn't. There are plenty of clipless shoes that are comfortable and easy to walk in.

I've toured with both. I like the simplicity of platforms, but am willing to put up with the slightly more complicated clipless system just because pedaling seems more efficient. That may be due to the stiffer soles on my biking shoes, but I also like my foot being in the exact same position on the pedal every time. I usually bring sandals for walking around, but if I wanted to do a hike or something I'd just remove the (recessed) cleats from my biking shoes.

Edit:


Do you have any concerns about safety when you try to get off the bike after a l o n g l o n g day? You know, getting un-clipped,,,,,,,,

Nope. Never. I keep the adjustment pretty loose anyway and have never had a problem getting un-clipped.

I'd second the recommendation for Shimano combi pedals. With the spd cleat system, it's quite comfortable to walk around (the cleats are recessed), and when I want to adjust position, I can just flip the pedals over. For riding around town, I jump aboard with flipflops or whatever I have on.

No it doesn't. There are plenty of clipless shoes that are comfortable and easy to walk in.

Comfortable and easy to walk in around the store maybe. How easy and comfortable would they be on a 10 mile hike?

Do you have any concerns about safety when you try to get off the bike after a l o n g l o n g day? You know, getting un-clipped,,,,,,,,
Really?? I can't imagine being to tired to unclip.

I use the spd combo pedals too. While touring I always bring an extra pair of shoes: hiking shoes. A lot of people don't like the extra weight/bulk or don't mind walking around a camp site with stiff-soled cleats, but I like to have a dry pair of shoes on deck anyway. My wife does the same, but swears by flip-flops - they are lighter and less bulky, I'll give her that.

There are some safety benefits. Sometimes, especially in cities where traffic is getting weird, I'll often unclip one foot and use the platform. Conversely, I feel way safer being clipped in while descending in rough terrain - I'm always afraid my feet are going to bounce off the pedals, again. In general, having the option allows you to do whatever feels safer at any given moment.

My favorite touring pedal is the old SPD-compatible Dura Ace pedal. Very solid connection and great float with the M71 cleat and it allows you to use Mtb-shoes that are good for walking.

Do you have any concerns about safety when you try to get off the bike after a l o n g l o n g day? You know, getting un-clipped,,,,,,,,
I had a bad crash caused by a badly balanced load combined with clipless pedals. My load was heavier on my weak-unclipping side (I have trouble getting my left foot out sometimes), and when I slowed down and had my right foot out, my bike toppled to the left. I hit a bench pretty hard on my upper arm, and could have been much more serious if I'd been a few inches further away (and had hit my head or neck instead).

Since then I've learned to be very cautious with load balancing, and have loosened my left pedal to the point where a sufficiently sharp pull upwards can free my foot.

I am a long time user of clip-less pedals but have recently (last summer) starting using platform pedals on my commuter/touring bike. I have to say that I LOVE them and don't really think they slow me down or negatively affect my pedaling in any way. I love being able to walk around in my sandals, shoes, whatever I choose to wear. I did a short tour last fall wearing nothing but my keen sandals and was in heaven because of it. I think I was also more comfortable both on and off the bike. It felt free-ing. I am now so sold on simple platform pedals that I am seriously considering switching over my lightweight road bike too.

Comfortable and easy to walk in around the store maybe. How easy and comfortable would they be on a 10 mile hike?

Probably more so than normal street shoes - whatever that means. Do you really tour with hiking boots on the chance that you'll do a ten mile hike? Frankly, I don't see myself spending 6 hours in the saddle and then an additional 3 hours hiking.

Do you think fly fishermen should tour wearing waders?

Probably more so than normal street shoes - whatever that means. Do you really tour with hiking boots on the chance that you'll do a ten mile hike? Frankly, I don't see myself spending 6 hours in the saddle and then an additional 3 hours hiking.

If all you ever do is pedal, then you're set! When I rode down the Pacific coast, I took a day off to visit Hearst Castle. I did every tour they offered, which amounted to 6+ miles of walking. I could easily see taking a day off from biking to hike through a national park, state park, national monument, etc.

FWIW, the bicycling shoes I wore (Shimano MT-31) were actually better than I'd expected for walking around Hearst Castle. I removed the cleats, to avoid scratching anything, and it actually made the shoes walk quite a bit better...

Probably more so than normal street shoes - whatever that means. Do you really tour with hiking boots on the chance that you'll do a ten mile hike? Frankly, I don't see myself spending 6 hours in the saddle and then an additional 3 hours hiking.

Do you think fly fishermen should tour wearing waders?


No, as I said above I use trail running shoes. Of course I do not bike all day and then hike, but I think that is obvious. Days off are for hiking.

I tour with shimano PD A530 pedals. Clip on one side, platform on others. I wear cycling sandals to ride and walk in. I carry a light pair of crocs for camp shoes. Works fine for me.

I just finished riding a metric century using MKS Sylvan Touring pedals, equipped with Power Grips straps. I did the ride while wearing Keen sandals.
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Probably more so than normal street shoes - whatever that means. Do you really tour with hiking boots on the chance that you'll do a ten mile hike? Frankly, I don't see myself spending 6 hours in the saddle and then an additional 3 hours hiking.

Do you think fly fishermen should tour wearing waders?
Not long ago I bought a pair of Merrell Tawas water shoes for kayaking and wade fishing. It turns out that they're great bike shoes too: stiff enough for pedalling, comfy and supportive on the trail and extremely light and well ventilated. They would be my first choice for a warm-weather tour if I wanted to take only one pair of shoes.

Most tours I am on the bike most of the day most days. I do short hikes along the way usually only a couple miles at a time. I could do that in my bike shoes just fine, but take Crocs for a change of footwear.

That said we spent a week in Yosemite on one tour and it was worth having trail runners there since we were hiking every day for a week. We bought a pair there and carried them for the remaining 5 days of the tour. We might have mailed them home if we had been going on longer.

I like platform pedals.Lately I have been wearing these:http://the-gadgeteer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/chrome-shoes-2.jpg
Chrome cycling shoes.Love them.They have clipless versions also.

Love the Chromes...I might have to give those a try.

Nice thing about touring is there is no right or wrong way to do...whatever makes you happy.

Keep lovin' those platforms.

Thank you all for your comments, I been looking at lots of stuff, I find not all platforms are the same.
I found these Specialized Sanoma, they feel pretty good walking, for a bike shoe. Back five years ago I broke a chain, too bad to fix it, had to push the ride all the way home, I know it sounds weird but I have a hard time getting my foot where I like it with platforms,,,I just feel more comfortable clipped in. But I got lots more miles in on platforms than clip-less. I tried the toe strap thing, my coordination is not that good,

And yes once I went too long without food or drink, I could not unclip, and fell over and scratched my brake lever.
Once we stopped for lunch and my butt was stuck to the ground, I couldn't get up,,,,once I did I got back in saddle and we climbed another couple thousand feet,,

I have no idea what system is most efficient over all, however I prefer platform pedals. Simple, and can use any type of shoe. I can place my foot at any position at any angle. I am currently using a platform called FORTE , they are wide and secure

This (http://www.dromarti.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10&zenid=0b305aa1085980ca6535fd317695bfcd) is what I'm talkin' about!

I decided during my last tour that instead of using SPD type pedals that I would switch to the M324 pedals in the future. That would allow me to use clipless system on non-rainy days and use different shoes on rainy days. I was familiar with the M324 pedals because I have them on my foldup bike.

Higher cadence RPM, benefit spud pedals, clipless pedals, recessed cleats.
lower cadence , a big bmx/mountain platform
pedal would be great. you can buy stiff arch support insoles to improve shoes
that are good walking shoes , into cycling shoe improvements..

I used toeclips and quill pedals a lot, there is a nack to flipping the pedal over
and putting your shoe in, with the first crank rotation..
I hate the sound of dragging the toeclip on the road.

On my lht, I use Forte Campus Pedals. Platform on one side and clipless on the other. Around $30.00 from Performance. i still use clipless 99% of the time carrying camping loads, and don't have any problems with it. About the only time I use platform is when I need to go some short distance and don't want to get all of my cycling gear on. If I put on the clipless shoes, everything else goes on too.

Shimano PDA530 or PDM324. Both feature platform on one side and SPD cleat on the other. As these are mountian cleats you can get shoes or sandals which are more comfortable to walk in.

I like these also because you can clip in out on the roads and use the platform side in traffic. I've never been so tired I had to lift my feet off by hand, but I'm a wuss who only rides 60-80 miles a day loaded.

Marc

+1 for the MKS Tour/Power Grip combo.

I got these new Specialized Touring Shoes, they got a smoothish looking bottom, I put my Frogs on em and set out last saturday for runs all over town with walking through 2 grocery stores and Lowes twice,, off to the drive up at the bank and stopped at Arbys for dinner, If I use my Frogs these shoes are my choice.
I toured with platforms last 3 years, never toured with clipless, Hoping they buy me some energy climbing, I like to run at cadence 80 when climbing,, I got a pair of sandles we like never go walka bout to far. Scared to leave the bikes.

Reading all these posts reminds me of all the arguments going around in my head,,,,Did I mention I am knuts....

Comfortable and easy to walk in around the store maybe. How easy and comfortable would they be on a 10 mile hike?

I did a ten hour hike through Royal National Park near Sydney last year with Shimano mountain shoes. They were just fine. Are they as comfortable as dedicated walking shoes? No; but they're adequate for the kind of short walks most bicycle tourists do. Bicycle tourists spend many more hours traveling on their bikes than on their feet. Personally I'm solidly in the clipless camp.

That said, these days I use old fashioned clips for commuting, mainly because that's what I have on my road bike. Anything works for me as long as my feet are attached to the pedals somehow.

What would be the very best platform pedal that also takes the PowerGrip straps?

The MKS looks very solid. Are there better pedals than these that also accept the PowerGrip mount?

Thanks.

This is a good read when making shoe/pedal decisions.
http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse

Comfortable and easy to walk in around the store maybe. How easy and comfortable would they be on a 10 mile hike?

Dunno about 10, but I've walked substantially more than 5 miles, at the end of a long day, primarily steeply uphill, pushing a loaded bike, in a pair of Pearl Izumi Vagabonds with no foot discomfort at all.

I've also worn them on long, unloaded walks on the beach and while going about normal camp chores on more days that I can count with no pain at all.

I like SPDs because you can walk around without cleat covers if you use mtn bike shoes, and they are easy to clip in and out of. I just got some Shimano PD-M540s for my commuter bike and they are solid pedals for a reasonable price. I've got another set of SPDs on my touring bike that are more than 10 years old and still going strong.

This is a good read when making shoe/pedal decisions.
http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse

As with most things on Rivendell, only a little wheat with a lot of chaff. I've ridden in soft shoes for long distances. It hurts. You get a pressure point across the ball of your foot that's extremely uncomfortable.

Cyclists aren't runners. We don't impact our feet the same way. While walking you might hit heel first, you certainly wouldn't want to pedal that way. Runners don't run on their toes when they run fast, they run on the ball of their foot. You also climb stairs on the ball of your foot which is closer to how we bicycle then running is.

If you move your foot forward on the pedal so that you can climb using the arch of your foot, you'll be over extending your knee because the saddle height is usually set so that you can ride on the ball of you foot. Try riding with the arch of your foot sometime. It's not all that comfortable either. Or, if you set your saddle height to pedal on your arch, you'll be too low for pedaling on the ball of your foot.

And then there is this


1. in slippery conditions ... a connection to the pedal is a benefit.

2. When you climb a super steep short hill, you actually can pull up on the upward-moving pedal for a few strokes, and doing so helps you turn over the other pedal (get it past 12:00 and into the power part of the stroke).

He asks how often these are going to matter. The question is how can you tell when they are going to matter and when they aren't? If you are riding to work, maybe it doesn't matter. Live is more predictable but just. If you are out on tour, live is never predictable. Stuff happens.

Finally, if you can 'pull up on the pedals' when climbing hills, what keeps you from doing the same while riding the flats? Laws of nature? Special circumstances? Federal rules?

I use the m324 pedals and bontrager race MTB shoes (couple year old model) on my road bike, mountain bike, and touring bike. Great combination. The shoes are great they various replacement arch supports although the standard one were fine. I have ridden on these and then walked/hiked in death valley, Zion, Yosemite, arches with no problems.

As with most things on Rivendell, only a little wheat with a lot of chaff. I've ridden in soft shoes for long distances. It hurts. You get a pressure point across the ball of your foot that's extremely uncomfortable.

Cyclists aren't runners. We don't impact our feet the same way. While walking you might hit heel first, you certainly wouldn't want to pedal that way. Runners don't run on their toes when they run fast, they run on the ball of their foot. You also climb stairs on the ball of your foot which is closer to how we bicycle then running is.

If you move your foot forward on the pedal so that you can climb using the arch of your foot, you'll be over extending your knee because the saddle height is usually set so that you can ride on the ball of you foot. Try riding with the arch of your foot sometime. It's not all that comfortable either. Or, if you set your saddle height to pedal on your arch, you'll be too low for pedaling on the ball of your foot.

And then there is this



He asks how often these are going to matter. The question is how can you tell when they are going to matter and when they aren't? If you are riding to work, maybe it doesn't matter. Live is more predictable but just. If you are out on tour, live is never predictable. Stuff happens.

Finally, if you can 'pull up on the pedals' when climbing hills, what keeps you from doing the same while riding the flats? Laws of nature? Special circumstances? Federal rules?

No way dude. I have lots of issues walking/running and pressure points on the balls of my feet. I have way LESS pressure points using flat pedals and soft shoes. Your foot can spread out much more on the pedal and disperse the weight. My road shoes and cleats kill my feet after a 50+ miles, professional fit, molded shoes and a custom alignment..no go. What doesn't work for you may work well for others..

Everybody pedals differently. People that are 'toe down' pedalers MAY have seat height issues. People that are heel down or flat foot won't have anywhere near the issues your describing with moving their feet around. I am a severe toe down pedaler with clips, I love moving my feet around on flats, a very welcome relief and zero issues.

What keeps you from pulling up when riding flat ground? Super steep hills aside, nothing, except it is inefficient, pointless and a complete waste of energy. Best case scenario you unload the rising foot to keep it out of the way of the power stroke.

Clips have their place, and if they work for you, great. They are an un-needed expense for 99% of the riders cruising at 12 mph on tour.

No way dude. I have lots of issues walking/running and pressure points on the balls of my feet. I have way LESS pressure points using flat pedals and soft shoes. Your foot can spread out much more on the pedal and disperse the weight. My road shoes and cleats kill my feet after a 50+ miles, professional fit, molded shoes and a custom alignment..no go. What doesn't work for you may work well for others..

I suspect that your issues are the outlier. Most bicyclists use a foot retention device of some kind. That could be clipless or clips or clips with cleats or power straps but the vast majority of cyclists use them. I use them because they provide an advantage over not having my feet attached to the pedals. I certain that most other people find them equally useful.



What keeps you from pulling up when riding flat ground? Super steep hills aside, nothing, except it is inefficient, pointless and a complete waste of energy. Best case scenario you unload the rising foot to keep it out of the way of the power stroke.

Ever pedaled one legged? You cannot return the pedal to the top of the stroke without pulling up on the pedal. If you've ever tried to pedal one legged you get a real feel for how much you pull up and how much power pulling up gives you.


Clips have their place, and if they work for you, great. They are an un-needed expense for 99% of the riders cruising at 12 mph on tour.

Clips or clipless? And it's not about speed but about time and distance, as well as comfort. For most people...at least most people I've seen riding out on the roads...they've decided that clips and/or clipless are worth the expense.

Clips have their place, and if they work for you, great. They are an un-needed expense for 99% of the riders cruising at 12 mph on tour.

Actually, speed has nothing to do with it. It's all about cadence. With clipless pedals, and the right gearing, I can spin the pedals at speeds which would be impossible for me to maintain with flat pedals. Spinning allows me to trade cardiovascular strength off against leg strength. Likewise, I can pull up on the pedals to give the quads a bit of a rest while recruiting my hamstrings. Being able to both of these things makes climbing much more enjoyable and is the reason that all of my flat pedals have been consigned to the garbage bin...

At one time I would have said go with clipless pedals and then another time I would have said go with toe clips ans straps but now I would say use what you like.I can,t make up my mind what kind of pedals I like the best I am redoing my LHT again I put on gear set now I am looking for the right pedals let us know what you use at the end.I,m looking a reg pedals at this time.

I gave up on rat-trap pedals, clips and straps, uh, over 45 years ago. Clipless, SPDs or Frogs, and Dominators are much more comfortable. We did a nice hilly 60 mile group ride yesterday with a woman friend who had to ship her fast bike off for a tour in the SW. She came out on her commuter/errand bike. It has platforms, clips and straps, She wore running shoes. Her fast bike is clipless, with SPDs and Dominators. By the end of the ride her knees were really sore. Plus we had to wait for her on every hill, and she usually beats us up if she wants to. She's not used to riding that bike either long or hard. I suspect the problem was all the pushing down, instead of being able to spread the strain out around the pedal stroke. I've finished countless long rides just using my hams when my quads got too tired due to my inattention early in the ride.

Nick may be right. If you cruise at 12 mph, you probably can get by with platforms. When I rode that fast, that's what I had. I was 12 years old. I carry running shoes on tour. The extra weight of the shoes is negligible. I could carry 20 pair with the difference in power between clipless and platform.

I see it as a style/macho thing. Style = pain. The more style, the more pain. Nothing says style like sandals, platforms, long pants, and a blousy shirt. See you at the next campground 80 miles up the road.

As with most things on Rivendell, only a little wheat with a lot of chaff.
That's funny, and true. Grant is right about a lot of things, such as bicycle design, but his sartorial and diet ideas (like the paleo diet (http://biketouringnews.com/touring-stuff/daily-bread/paleo-diet-gary-taubes-and-cavepersons/)) are wacky.


I've ridden in soft shoes for long distances. It hurts. You get a pressure point across the ball of your foot that's extremely uncomfortable.
I used the Riv Grip Kings on my offroad bike and experienced more numbness than when I use clipless pedals.


Finally, if you can 'pull up on the pedals' when climbing hills, what keeps you from doing the same while riding the flats? Laws of nature? Special circumstances? Federal rules?
Even though I average between 11 and 16 mph when touring depending on the day and conditions, I have clocked 38+ mph downhill with a tailwind and 3-4 mph climbing in the Texas hill country. Spinning at 38 mph would be tricky and dangerous without being clipped in, especially if you hit a bump, and it would be difficult to climb, out of the saddle, without being clipped in.
Just my 2 cents.

I suspect that your issues are the outlier. Most bicyclists use a foot retention device of some kind. That could be clipless or clips or clips with cleats or power straps but the vast majority of cyclists use them. I use them because they provide an advantage over not having my feet attached to the pedals. I certain that most other people find them equally useful.


Doesn't make it right or the best way. It's fashionable and 'cool', many people buy into that. Not saying your one of them, but it doesn't hurt to have an open mind.


Ever pedaled one legged? You cannot return the pedal to the top of the stroke without pulling up on the pedal. If you've ever tried to pedal one legged you get a real feel for how much you pull up and how much power pulling up gives you.


All the time on my race bike. You can come surprisingly close to returning the pedal with flat pedals. Ever seen somebody bunnyhop? Same principle. With a bit of time you can make it most of the way around, the tough bit is between 3 and 11. Im not making this stuff up, read the research, efficient pedalers do not 'pull up' on the pedal anymore than to unweight the leg.


Clips or clipless? And it's not about speed but about time and distance, as well as comfort. For most people...at least most people I've seen riding out on the roads...they've decided that clips and/or clipless are worth the expense.

Its obvious you have never spent copious time on flats, not saying that in a condescending way. I think you'd be pleasently surprised.

That's funny, and true. Grant is right about a lot of things, such as bicycle design, but his sartorial and diet ideas (like the paleo diet (http://biketouringnews.com/touring-stuff/daily-bread/paleo-diet-gary-taubes-and-cavepersons/)) are wacky.


I used the Riv Grip Kings on my offroad bike and experienced more numbness than when I use clipless pedals.


Even though I average between 11 and 16 mph when touring depending on the day and conditions, I have clocked 38+ mph downhill with a tailwind and 3-4 mph climbing in the Texas hill country. Spinning at 38 mph would be tricky and dangerous without being clipped in, especially if you hit a bump, and it would be difficult to climb, out of the saddle, without being clipped in.
Just my 2 cents.

But 99% of freeriders, riding downhill over bumpy terrain don't use clips. No need, you feet are not going to get bucked off. I have never had it happen to me in 25 years of riding, racing bmx, riding trials, downhill mountain biking, touring, etc.

I gave up on rat-trap pedals, clips and straps, uh, over 45 years ago. Clipless, SPDs or Frogs, and Dominators are much more comfortable. We did a nice hilly 60 mile group ride yesterday with a woman friend who had to ship her fast bike off for a tour in the SW. She came out on her commuter/errand bike. It has platforms, clips and straps, She wore running shoes. Her fast bike is clipless, with SPDs and Dominators. By the end of the ride her knees were really sore. Plus we had to wait for her on every hill, and she usually beats us up if she wants to. She's not used to riding that bike either long or hard. I suspect the problem was all the pushing down, instead of being able to spread the strain out around the pedal stroke. I've finished countless long rides just using my hams when my quads got too tired due to my inattention early in the ride.

Nick may be right. If you cruise at 12 mph, you probably can get by with platforms. When I rode that fast, that's what I had. I was 12 years old. I carry running shoes on tour. The extra weight of the shoes is negligible. I could carry 20 pair with the difference in power between clipless and platform.

I see it as a style/macho thing. Style = pain. The more style, the more pain. Nothing says style like sandals, platforms, long pants, and a blousy shirt. See you at the next campground 80 miles up the road.

Not to have a ***k measuring contest, but how fast do you ride a tour at? I thought I was doing well at 12 mph, in reality is probably slower!

I have thought about trying flats on my road bike during the team club rides that scoot along at 25 mph+ but I don't think it would look good with my Assos bibs and Rapha jersey :)

Probably more to do with her bike that the pedals. Have you ever rode on a professional stationary power meter? Just because you CAN pedal inefficiently doesn't mean you should. Set up a session, it really opened my eyes into pedaling efficiencies and also leg balance. My right leg was doing 60% of the work!

Doesn't make it right or the best way. It's fashionable and 'cool', many people buy into that. Not saying your one of them, but it doesn't hurt to have an open mind.

Nor does popularity make it wrong or the worst way to pedal.

As for the open mind, that works both ways. You could be seen to be a tad close minded about the benefits of retaining your foot on the bike.



All the time on my race bike. You can come surprisingly close to returning the pedal with flat pedals. Ever seen somebody bunnyhop? Same principle. With a bit of time you can make it most of the way around, the tough bit is between 3 and 11. Im not making this stuff up, read the research, efficient pedalers do not 'pull up' on the pedal anymore than to unweight the leg.

Yes, you can bunny hop without attaching your feet to the pedal. Maybe even pedal one-legged. But attached to the pedal, both are ever so much easier and I can accelerate one-legged with clips. I doubt you can do that without toeclips or clipless.

As for the research, I've read it and I'm not impressed. I don't thing the measurements are being done correctly. If you can put power to the pedals on the upstroke while sprinting, you can put power to the pedals on the upstroke while cruising. George Box said it best "All models are wrong. Some are useful."



Its obvious you have never spent copious time on flats, not saying that in a condescending way. I think you'd be pleasently surprised.

:roflmao2::roflmao2:I ain't wet behind the ears, Sonny:50: I gave up flat pedals looong ago. I've tried them since and can't say that they've improved any. I gave up toe clips too and I'm not impressed with them either.

From road riding to commuting to hardcore off-road riding, clipless offer advantages to me that, quite frankly, flat pedals just can't.

Not to have a ***k measuring contest, but how fast do you ride a tour at? I thought I was doing well at 12 mph, in reality is probably slower!

I have thought about trying flats on my road bike during the team club rides that scoot along at 25 mph+ but I don't think it would look good with my Assos bibs and Rapha jersey :)

Probably more to do with her bike that the pedals. Have you ever rode on a professional stationary power meter? Just because you CAN pedal inefficiently doesn't mean you should. Set up a session, it really opened my eyes into pedaling efficiencies and also leg balance. My right leg was doing 60% of the work!We cruise at about 18 on the flat, average 12-13 over an ordinary hilly day, camp touring unsupported. We are terrible climbers in our home group, but seem to outclimb other tourists we run across. We're both in our 60s and we aren't skinny. IMO, a very great deal of being able to ride long distance at a reasonable pace is pedaling technique. In our case, it sure as heck isn't athletic ability. We do a lot of pedaling drills on rollers and trainer to make up for lack of same. One-legged, high cadence, low cadence, etc. The whole trick of pedaling is to engage all the muscles in one's legs, while keeping the upper body completely still. "Heels down, pedal round."

I did three 100 mile day rides last year in platform pedals without straps or clips. I wore soft running shoes. My feet never hurt.

I think one advantage of platform pedals is that you CAN move your feet around on the pedal. Being locked into the same position all day on clipless pedals seems worse to me.

Of course, my main reason for pedal selection is that I'm a cheapskate. My pedals didn't cost much and I don't need to buy special shoes.