Advocacy & Safety - You come upon a long line of cars at an intersection...what do you do?

Do you wait in line, or do you ride alongside the cars to the front of the line? What do you believe is safer and/or considerate?

I personally ride alongside the right hand side of the cars...I can get out of the way faster when the light changes. I wait in line at 4-way, or 3-way stops.

Can of worms has just been opened.

Oh dear....
I get in line when going through intersections. Getting right hooked hurts. Darn inattentive drivers.

*Cowers in fear from the coming of the can comprised of worms*

I'll move to the front of the line.

I typically ride to the front unless i see a vehicle signaling for a right turn and I know I can't get across the intersection before them(I know most don't use their signals here). I always look at the driver next to me to make sure they see me.

I wait in line.

it depends

Wait

I wait in line. In this town, filtering is probably asking to be right hooked. I was nearly hit head on once, while waiting to make a turn out of a park exit, so I don't have much faith in the drivers around here.

I'd also claim that I don't want to be one of those cyclists that motorists complain about, but I still have a bad habit of creeping through stop signs, and not completely stopping unless there's a car coming. Though around here, that might make me a vehicular cyclist.

If the line of cars is standing still I usually try to get to the front if there's enough space (not always though, it's a situational thing), if the cars are moving I probably stay behind even if they are slowing me down.

Oh dear....
I get in line when going through intersections. Getting right hooked hurts. Darn inattentive drivers.

*Cowers in fear from the coming of the can comprised of worms*

Not just right-hooked, left-hooked too.

If there is a dedicated right-turn lane and there is room for me to filter between the right-turn lane lane and through lane safely, I will do so. If there is no dedicated right turn lane I generally wait in line, unless there is a lot of room to the right (enough for a car making a right to use separate from the line), making a defacto right-turn lane. If the line is really long, I may get greedy and slowly filter up in other situations, but these times are rare, and I approach them with extreme caution. YMMV.

I wait unless I know there's more traffic ahead and I can keep riding without playing lead frog. I hate to be the guy that rolls up to the front only to get passed again by every car a minute later

I'll pass the line of cars, generally on the right, and then wait for the light to change there.

Do you wait in line, or do you ride alongside the cars to the front of the line? What do you believe is safer and/or considerate?

I personally ride alongside the right hand side of the cars...I can get out of the way faster when the light changes. I wait in line at 4-way, or 3-way stops.

Assuming there's space, I ride down the inside of the line to get to the front. Depending on the road and conditions I sometimes ride down the outside. If there's no space I wait in line until there is space.

In the UK it's pretty much expected that cyclists and motorcyclists will pass a queue of cars to get to the front. A lot of traffic lights have what we call an ASL (advanced stop line) intended specifically to give cyclists a space at the front of the queue ahead of the stop line for cars.

I wait unless I know there's more traffic ahead and I can keep riding without playing lead frog. I hate to be the guy that rolls up to the front only to get passed again by every car a minute later

Actually that can be pretty amusing if you're in a bad mood and want to cheer yourself up by pissing off motorists. ;)

Depends on the road. If there's a bike lane, I'll move up. In every situation that I ride in where there's a stoplight, there's also no bike lane or even shoulder, so I get in line.

In short, I act exactly as I do when I'm in a car. In a car, if I had my own clear lane, obviously I'd move up. If not I stay in line.

I have a question about this. In Texas its illegal for a motorcycle to split lanes - which is what this is. So if bikes are constrained by the same laws on the road as motor vehicles, wouldn't it be illegal (in Texas) to do this?

Also, I agree with hairnet about "I hate to be the guy that rolls up to the front only to get passed again by every car a minute later." This move seems to be justifying the cagers negative opinion of cyclists, IMO.

Texas its Legal for a motorcycle to split lanes

I wait unless I am in a bike lane. I also get out into the lane so I am not squeezed unless (obviously) if there is a bike lane.

I drop into the blind spot just off the right rear fender of the lead car and let him pull me through, then drop back off to the right of the lane as he pulls away.....

Texas its Legal for a motorcycle to split lanes

When did that happen? its been a couple of years since I've ridden - and got ticketed for it. But the most recent dated entry on Google shows HB 1571 still in process.

Funny story: when I got ticketed for it the officer asked "do you know why I pulled you over?". I replied "because I let you." Yeah, he didn't think that was very funny either.

Mentioned above, it depends on the situation.

Generally I wait, like any other vehicle in line, provided I can clear the line in one light cycle. If not, well then the way I look at it: Hell I am on a bike, and they are not, I view it as the privilege of riding a bike.

However, there are certain situations that dictate otherwise: my city has 5 main bridges that cross a River that divides the region and city. All of them are major choke points at rush hour. Usually there is enough room to filter forward, however one in particular is rather narrow with no room to filter (four lanes on a bridge originally built for two - with traffic heavy in both directions). There, I actually hop up on an elevated sidewalk and slowly proceed along until I reach the far side. Otherwise it could be a 20-30+ minute wait to go ~200 yards. On another bridge that is currently undergoing renovations, jersey barriers are being used to channel traffic, there the traffic flows at speed and since I am able to keep up with traffic, I take the lane and then either filter or wait depending on the egress choke points on the other side (the bridge itself feeds into a rotary that keeps the traffic off the bridge, but chokes at points beyond the rotary.) Whether I filter or wait depends on the road surfaces, the room and the traffic and how much it is crowding the fog lane. In the winter/spring, there is more debris in the fog lane, so I wait, in the cleaner summer/fall months, I can usually filter as there is more room, unless a vehicle is pulled way over, then I have to wait.

Do what makes sense and is most safe for you.

As I said, the way I look at it is I am riding a bike, I don't contribute to the traffic situation, so why should I have to wait in it.

At least here in Mass another thing that controls is the law. Mass law specifically allows bicycles to pass on the right, however the law is somewhat ambiguous as to whether this applies to moving vehicles AND stopped vehicles, OR only moving vehicles. I have read opinions from MassBike that indicate it's not okay to pass stopped traffic, however, I have successfully argued for clients that it is. There is no case law on point. In this regard, I will generally filter forward, as long as the line of traffic is moving and creeping, however, unless I have a clear lane for me (fog/bike/shoulder lane), as mentioned above, I stop and wait. At least in Mass., the law really just codifies what is the most sensible thing to do anyway.

zac

I've done all manner of things. every situation is different. one thing I didn't see mentioned was moving to the intersection to wait, but then waitign for the line of cars to pass before taking off.

If you waited behind the cars at every intersection then biking wouldn't be any faster than driving would it? Kind of defeats the point of riding in the city. Pretending that 25 lbs of welded aluminum tubes on two wheels is actually 2000 lbs of steel with four wheels is stupid in my opinion.

I generally don't pass (filter). Depends on the situation though. If all the cars are turning left and I'm going straight, I'll filter. We just had a discussion about the legality of this on the local bike advocacy list. Seems to me if cars can pass in the lane, I can pass in the lane on my bike. It's not illegal in PA to pass on the right, or anywhere other than New Jersey for that matter.

I wait in line. I assume most of the cars in line have already passed me. If I fliter to the front, that means they will have to pass me again. That really pisses drivers off, and for good reason. There are many threads *****ing about drivers, but this is a prime reason that drivers get angry and take it out on almost any cyclist they encounter. Be a lawful vehicle on the road and obey the rules of the road!!!!

I wait in line. I assume most of the cars in line have already passed me. If I fliter to the front, that means they will have to pass me again. That really pisses drivers off, and for good reason. There are many threads *****ing about drivers, but this is a prime reason that drivers get angry and take it out on almost any cyclist they encounter. Be a lawful vehicle on the road and obey the rules of the road!!!!

We are lucky, all sidewalks are designated bike trails. If there are no trails,, sidewalks, you
are a vehicle. you have the same rules, passing on the right shoulder is a NO NO! If there is
room, I move to the right and let the cars go, if it is close, I move off the road and let the
cars pass.

My life and limbs are worth more than a few minutes.

I wait in line. I assume most of the cars in line have already passed me. If I fliter to the front, that means they will have to pass me again. That really pisses drivers off, and for good reason. There are many threads *****ing about drivers, but this is a prime reason that drivers get angry and take it out on almost any cyclist they encounter. Be a lawful vehicle on the road and obey the rules of the road!!!!

Two point here - first and foremost, it's legal to filter here, so I am obeying the rules of the road by filtering. Secondly, What's the problem with filtering forward if the lane is sharable? What, FRAP sharing only works one way? If I can filter by traffic and they can pass me within the lane or with minimal effort, I don't see why it would piss them off to filter forward. Now in a situation where you must claim the lane, I could see that pissing people off....

it depends

Gotta agree... this is a very situation thing. If the line is not likely to clear in one green, and there is good room for me to filter... I take advantage of being on a bike. On the other hand, I don't want to go through the leap frog thing, so if the line of vehicles is likely to clear on one green, I wait with all the other people.

Bike lanes encourage forward filtering, and not having to worry about leap frogging. On my commute route, if I happen to hit it right at rush hour, it can take up to 45 minutes for motorists to go a lousy 2 miles... there is no way I would wait for that, especially since this arterial road has a bike lane. I proceed cautiously, but I go none the less, and frankly as I hump up the hill at 8MPH, and pass all those cars waiting for the light at the top of the hill, I partake in a certain "holier than thou" pleasure.

So the answer is indeed "it depends."

I (it appears the majority opinion) also wait. feel that it is more considerate to wait my turn in line.

I wait in line. I assume most of the cars in line have already passed me. If I filter to the front, that means they will have to pass me again. That really pisses drivers off, and for good reason. There are many threads *****ing about drivers, but this is a prime reason that drivers get angry and take it out on almost any cyclist they encounter. Be a lawful vehicle on the road and obey the rules of the road!!!!

Exactly, motorists already have enough reason to either hate or dislike us so why add to it?

The only time this ever becomes a consideration for me is riding in downtown Denver. The lanes downtown are pretty narrow, without much room for filtering. You need to go pretty slow to ensure you don't bump into cars. I found the few times I tried to do it, it was just as quick to wait in queue for the light to turn green.

Now if there's a bike lane, you can sure bet your sorry motoring ass I'm going to be passing everyone at the red light.

Exactly, motorists already have enough reason to either hate or dislike us so why add to it?

There are practical reasons for filtering to the front, for me the #1 reason why I do it is because I don't like inhaling the cars' exhaust fumes directly and the air is noticably more friendly at the front imo, especially when I'm already a little out of breath.

I have a question about this. In Texas its illegal for a motorcycle to split lanes - which is what this is. So if bikes are constrained by the same laws on the road as motor vehicles, wouldn't it be illegal (in Texas) to do this?You aren't splitting lanes if you're riding in a shoulder, gutter, sidewalk or even on the right side of the rightmost lane to the right of the cars. I'm pretty sure this is legal in Texas. Almost certain.

(I think motorcycles splitting lanes is illegal in Texas, but am not certain of that. I think it's also illegal for bicycles, though it might be an Austin ordinance that makes it so rather than a state law. I think Austin has an ordinance that explicitly makes it illegal, whatever state law says.)

Though if your city has a 3' passing law, it can get awkward for the drivers -- if you're sharing the lane with them, you can pass them, but the 3' passing law says they can't pass you. So if traffic starts moving again, the polite thing to do is to either go fast enough that they don't need to pass you (which is hard, as you usually have very little space if you're sharing the lane with them) or get off the road so they can pass you. Or filter back into traffic once it starts moving but before it starts going fast -- that's probably the best solution.

In my town, the only traffic lights are on the main road and the speed limit is 35 MPH. The lanes are wide enough for cars and trucks to pass me, most of them ignore the 3 foot rule, but it no longer bothers me. The lights are short enough that I rarely have to stop, but when I do, I pull up short of the intersection in case the car in front wants to turn right, I'm not in their way. When the light changes, I go on my merry way and the people drive right on past.
When I come upon a red light on a side street, I'm usually the only or first one there. Then, I go with traffic or I am the only traffic. This leads to an interesting situation at times: four lanes of traffic stopping so one lone bicyclist can quietly ride through the intersection. :D

I wait unless I know there's more traffic ahead and I can keep riding without playing lead frog. I hate to be the guy that rolls up to the front only to get passed again by every car a minute later

The point of going past the line of cars isn't to pass them only for them to pass you again a moment later, it's to make sure you only wait one cycle of lights rather than several. If you're going to wait in line with everyone else you might as well drive.

I try to take routes that avoid intersections but I have to, I wait like a car would. It's just safer.

it's to make sure you only wait one cycle of lights rather than several
obviously


If you're going to wait in line with everyone else you might as well drive.
errrr, no

Well, this means they are stopped at a red light if I interpret the situation described. I generally stay to the right, but for those crowding the curb & gutter, no choice but to use the sidewalk first and I respect any pedestrians on the sidewalk. As for the cars, they passed me and had no problems doing so, so they shouldn't have a problem when I pass them, unless like I said they crowd the curb & gutter. And depending upon how many of them there are, how long the traffic light has been red, I'll go around them on the left to the front of the line. I won't do that maneuver on a stale red because I don't want to be out there when it turns green. I respect that aspect of the situation and my own safety. I don't inconvenience others, hopefully they don't inconvenience me and we all play well together.

obviously

So why did you raise the issue of passing only to be passed again? If that bothers you then either keep over so people can get past easily, keep your speed up so they don't have to, or wait in line and spend however many cycles it takes to get through the lights.


errrr, no

For me one primary reason to take the bike is the speed advantage. Losing that speed advantage (especially in poor weather) would leave me wanting to take the car instead.

I avoid those intersections.

Pass the fooking cars, get through the intersection and be done with it! Bikes have enough disadvantages without penalizing ourselves.

I avoid those intersections.

Do you ever leave home?

As a relative newby, tell me am I taking excessive chances or too cautious?

Tight lane or there is movement I get in line (or, I'll admit it, take to the sidewalk for really long lines). If there's plenty of room and everyone's stopped, especially if there's any downhill grade I'll get to the front.

I stay in line with traffic unless the line is so long that I'll probably miss the light, in which case I'll dismount and walk the bike on the sidewalk to and through the intersection. It's illegal to pass on the right in NC unless using a separate marked travel lane.

Do you ever leave home?

There are places where it's not too hard to avoid traffic lights. Heck, I've lived in towns that didn't have any. I can easily take a route that has no lights. Even on my normal route I only hit three lights. However, I don't change my route to avoid the lights except at one time of day when it can take 3 or 4 cycles to get through.

I wait in line. I assume most of the cars in line have already passed me. If I fliter to the front, that means they will have to pass me again. That really pisses drivers off, and for good reason. There are many threads *****ing about drivers, but this is a prime reason that drivers get angry and take it out on almost any cyclist they encounter. Be a lawful vehicle on the road and obey the rules of the road!!!!

It really depends on the lane layout, amount of traffic, and signals (length, timing, distance to next) whether they will pass you again or not.

As an example, imagine a line of 30 cars of which 29 are going to turn left, and often only 5 are able to get through each time the light changes. Do you really think an anxious driver would really rather have to wait for you too? I'd say no, especially when they're probably already on edge about how to deal with cyclists in the road to begin with.

I always just use my judgment and do (in this order of consideration) 1) What is safest for me. 2) What is least disruptive to my fellow citizens. 3) What keeps me moving down the road at a reasonable pace, and 4) What is lawful.

I don't know why people continue to think that if they obey the law, drivers are going to be less upset. If you inconvenience them or scare them they're going to be upset whether you obey the law or not. 90% of drivers break the law every day and they know it.

Gotta agree... this is a very situation thing. If the line is not likely to clear in one green, and there is good room for me to filter... I take advantage of being on a bike. On the other hand, I don't want to go through the leap frog thing, so if the line of vehicles is likely to clear on one green, I wait with all the other people.

Bike lanes encourage forward filtering, and not having to worry about leap frogging. On my commute route, if I happen to hit it right at rush hour, it can take up to 45 minutes for motorists to go a lousy 2 miles... there is no way I would wait for that, especially since this arterial road has a bike lane. I proceed cautiously, but I go none the less, and frankly as I hump up the hill at 8MPH, and pass all those cars waiting for the light at the top of the hill, I partake in a certain "holier than thou" pleasure.

So the answer is indeed "it depends."

Same here.

if:
1. There's room
2. There's a long line of cars (7~8 or more)
3. Past the light, there's one or more of the following:
-A shoulder, so cars can easily re-pass, OR
-More backed up traffic, OR
-A lower speed area where I can keep up with traffic, OR
-My destination or a road where I'm turning off.

Actually, one exception was where a bus was loading on a one-lane road with a median (so no cars could get by). There was a visibly massive crowd waiting to get on the bus, so I just passed a couple cars and the bus on the left.