Classic & Vintage - Fix or Sell?

Hi all,

I'm new to the world of cycling and picked up a 1984 Trek 420 about a month ago. I've loved riding it around (seems fast to me) but it has had a few faults. (previous owner had seat post that high)

201585

The chain has been skipping sometimes and the rear derailleur is not calibrated correctly (it won't go into the biggest gear and will fall off on the smallest). But other than that, the frame has no rust and the tires are basically brand new.

Today, I broke a link on the chain and it is no longer ride-able. I was really hoping to get a year's worth of riding out of this bike before having to get it tuned or anything. I figure since I have to take it into a LBS to fix the chain, I might as well get it tuned and looked at. I'm worried that the skipping might not be just the chain because the front cogs are a bit worn (but not horribly so). I know it will cost around 60 for a tune-up plus however extra for fixing or replacing the chain (maybe around 100 total?).

My question is, would you guys fix it, get it ride-able and flip it on CL and either buy a new bike or search for a different used one or stick it out with this bike. I'm really worried that this bike may turn into a money pit of constantly buying new parts/fixing things. I'm reasonably handy but don't have a lot of space/tools/time (med student).

I don't have a lot of money but if it will be cheaper in the long run to just buy a low-end new bike I would consider it. Thanks

Buy a chain and put it on yourself. Then adjust the rear derailleur (there are two 'limit' screws), it's very easy if you can't figure it out on your own or by searching online then ask here. Neither of those tasks take a lot of space/tools/time and then you can go from there.

Post some pictures and you'll get some help, we like old steel Treks here :)

If you love riding it, keep it!

I would be concerned If you Dr.( well to to be ), not to be confused with Dr. Welby who really was not a doctor only played one on tv.... I digress forgive me. It is not brain surgery but be forwarned there may be a couple of specialty tools you may need: Chain tool (wallmart version about $4- break three and you would have been better off buying the cheap park at $13, learn from my mistake), freewheel remover unless your bike is equipt with a Mallard rear hub, then look for a donnor wheel. Chains and rear cogs break in together and if your chain is to the point of skipping your rear freewheel should be replaced. Freewheels are cheap if you order online. FWIW - I think I have regreted selling about every steel Trek Road bike I have ever had.

I would be concerned If you Dr.( well to to be ), not to be confused with Dr. Welby who really was not a doctor only played one on tv.... I digress forgive me. It is not brain surgery but be forwarned there may be a couple of specialty tools you may need: Chain tool (wallmart version about $4- break three and you would have been better off buying the cheap park at $13, learn from my mistake), freewheel remover unless your bike is equipt with a Mallard rear hub, then look for a donnor wheel. Chains and rear cogs break in together and if your chain is to the point of skipping your rear freewheel should be replaced. Freewheels are cheap if you order online. FWIW - I think I have regreted selling about every steel Trek Road bike I have ever had.

My biggest fear is having to replace the rear cogs. Casettes are fairly expensive online and it looks like a much bigger job than I'm comfortable with considering I've never worked on a bike before. The tools aren't super expensive, but to do such a big job it looks like you really need to have a bike stand. Doing a quick search online those run about 100 bucks. I paid 150 for this bike... did I get ripped off?

Cassettes for that bike don't cost nearly that much. If you need to replace that freewheel, that should be fairly cheap- maybe $35-40 or so, and the shop would probably put it on for you for free or really cheap, like $5 I'd bet. I'm guessing the cassettes you saw were 9 or 10 speed road bike cassettes for modern road bikes- those ones are usually pretty pricey, and they wouldn't fit your bike. I think you'd need a freewheel, not a cassette (difference is in how they attach).

who says the freewheel is actually worn and in need of replacing? replace the chain and adjust the limit screws and see how it rides - unfortunately - C&V bikes need maintenance as do all bikes so you can either learn to wrench or pay the LBS to do it - but i would say keep the bike - it looks nice - and from what you say it sounds like its in good shape to boot

Having a bikestand is nice but is hardly a requirement, if you don't want to bend over you can flip the bike upside down, or hang it from some rope from a tree... or a couple hooks in the ceiling. Tie the string to the saddle and the stem and wala, a bike stand.

Also you bought this bike to use, not to flip to make a buck so there is nothing wrong with having to invest a few bux into it, in reality the parts you probably need are the equivalent of one tank of gas! Seems like a good deal to me.

In the future, would you rather reflect on your medical school days with a nice vintage, American Trek or a Walmart bike that would probably die on you before you graduate. :D. Point is, that's a quality bike and putting in a little bit of money and time is more worthwhile in the long-run. Chains are cheap (KMC makes great chains) and the finicky shifting is probably due to your rear derailleur (you might want to tighten your shifters too). To do that only takes about 10 minutes and a screwdriver. Make those changes before thinking about replacing others things like the freewheel etc. More than likely, your bike will run good as new. If you need help, this forum seems to be a friendly and helpful place.

Oh, and nice bike!

If you were to buy a new bike, especially a cheap one, you would still have the day to day up keep and expenses. chains are pretty cheap, so is the chain tool, assuming you dont buy a chain w/ a masterlink that requires no tools. cassettes and chainrings will wear out but will still work good enough for thousands of miles. To me it sounds like you just need to set up your rear derailieur, maybe replace the cable while your at it (thats cheap too). there are plenty of tutorials online as to how to do it. its pretty easy once you know how.

I would suggest if you are new to cycling and unfamiliar with bicycle mechanics taking it to a shop and have it tuned. ask about replacing the chain and freewheel. it my cost a bit more than doing it yourself but if the bike is runing well you will enjoy riding it more. you have lots of time to learn to work on it.

perhaps there is a fellow BFer nearby wo is willing to help.

who says the freewheel is actually worn and in need of replacing? replace the chain and adjust the limit screws and see how it rides - unfortunately - C&V bikes need maintenance as do all bikes so you can either learn to wrench or pay the LBS to do it - but i would say keep the bike - it looks nice - and from what you say it sounds like its in good shape to boot

I am the one who put the idea that he may have to replace the freewheel out there. I may have jumped the gun - sorry to have alarmed you, Hurley81388
I reviewed the specs. at VintageTrek.com ( http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/84Trek3Touring.pdf ) and if the bike is original it has the Heliomatic hub. Which I belive is good news and bad. Good they seem to be very durable and last a long time. I have kept a spare one around in case I ever needed it, I haven't.
Bad when it is worn out the OP will face the problem of having to find a new hub/wheel/ wheels set etc. That will be good also, because the new free wheels/ cassets shift oh so smooth compaired to the block cut cogs he has now.

I agree to keep it and spend a little money on it. Bicycles are simple but intimidating ( at least for me ) when you first start wrenching on them. After you learn how simple they really are the fun begins. The best thing to do is find a GOOD local shop that will sell you what you need for the bike and not run your wallet through the ringer.

My $.02

If the chain got so bad as to have actually broke I fear that the cogs may be toast on at least the favorite gears and he'll probably experience skipping in the smaller cogs with a new chain.

Maybe I'm wrong. The only sure way to know is to try to put a new chain on and to adjust the derailleur and hope for the best.

If the cogs are worn it's not going to be nearly as cheap to replace the Helicomatic cogset as it would be with a modern cassette or older freewheel. I wouldn't bother. I'd ditch the whole rear wheel and look on Craigslist for a used replacement 27" wheel. That shouldn't cost very much at all if he shops around. Maybe his LBS will hook him up with a good used deal. It might even come with cogs/cassette that works with his system. As Sheldon said, these Helicomatic hubs are losers. Not only are they expensive to find new cassettes but they have bearing issues as well and conesets are unobtanium. I bet the OP could sell the old wheel for as much if not more than the cost of a replacement if the hub and bearings are OK. Perhaps his LBS will help him with this too.

If the OP isn't up to doing the work himself I can't see why he can't get the work done at a decent LBS using a used wheel and selling the old one for much more than $100. Perhaps much much less. I see wheels on CL all the time for half that price if he can do it himself or find a friend who is local who will help him.

I'd fix it and ride it or fix it and flip it. It's not worth much broke. The bike is worth fixing in any case IMHO. Just dumping it and buying a low end bike is not a good idea either as far as money is concerned and you'll have a low-end bike in the end. Spend a little money on a new/used wheel if a new chain doesn't cut it and if that is all that is wrong with the bike then he's got something fairly decent.

Perhaps he can recoup all or most of his losses selling that Helicomatic Object when he is done.

Keep it. I recall the thread over in valuation when you thought about buying it. You were excited when you got it and said it rides great, super smooth and fast.
If you sell it as is you will take a loss since it needs parts/repairs. If you fix it up and sell it you will lose money and then go and buy a POS Walmart bike? No way.
Fix it and enjoy it.

Thanks for the great advice everyone. Took the bike into a LBS on my way home tonight and the mechanic gave me a few options. He could replace the broken link with a master link and see if it rode okay or replace the chain and freewheel. He said he would recommend just replacing the link (~10 bucks including labor) and seeing if the chain skipped. If it did, then it means I'm stuck replacing all the big stuff.

Haven't had a chance to really ride it out and test it yet, but fingers crossed. Also, while I was in the shop I asked him how much a tune-up costs. I was told 83 dollars!!!

Anyways, for 83 dollars a tune-up is not worth it to me. So a quick question about adjusting my rear derailleurs. I've read the instructions from Sheldon and the written instructions on Bicycle Tutor and just had a question.

Right now, the chain falls off at the highest gear (smallest cog) and will only shift as high as the third cog when I really jam the shifter all the way back. It is a six speed rear cog. Because it is so far off (3 gears away) do I have to tighten the cable or can I get away with just adjusting the limit screws? Adjusting the limit screws seems easy to me, messing with the cable much more difficult. Thanks!

Messing with the cable on a friction shift bike is super easy. Reread the Sheldon Brown adjustment info, or better yet, just go to the Park Tool site.

Chain is cheap, you should be able to pick one up at Walmart for under $10.

But my question is how do I know if I need to mess with the cable? Or will adjusting the limit screws be good enough?

I skimmed this park tool article about adjusting the rear derailleur:

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/rear-derailler-adjustments-derailleur

It didn't seem like it had any information on whether or not the cable itself needed to be adjusted. Thanks!

EDIT: just watched a youtube video and it says that there should be a barrel adjuster somewhere to adjust cable tension. where would I find this on my bike with downtube friction shifters? thanks!

But my question is how do I know if I need to mess with the cable? Or will adjusting the limit screws be good enough?

I skimmed this park tool article about adjusting the rear derailleur:

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/rear-derailler-adjustments-derailleur

It didn't seem like it had any information on whether or not the cable itself needed to be adjusted. Thanks!

EDIT: just watched a youtube video and it says that there should be a barrel adjuster somewhere to adjust cable tension. where would I find this on my bike with downtube friction shifters? thanks!

The barrel adjuster is mostly for index and some friction. I would assume you don't have one. The way I adjust the rear derailleur is this way:

1. Shifter the shifters back to normal.
2. Untighten the cable from the rear derailleur.
3. You have two limit screws (H and L). Adjust the 'H' >in< until the chain can get to the first cog without skipping. Test by hold the bike up and pedaling or you can have the bike upside down and pedal it.
4. Tighten the cable and pulling on it and screw it to the rear derailleur. Shift down until you reach the biggest cog. Adjust the 'L' screw >out< until you can. Test by holding the bike up and pedaling or you can have the bike upside down and pedal it.
5. Test the range of gears by holding the bike up and shifting up and down or you can have the bike upside down. Be careful shifting down as if you didn't adjust it correctly, the derailleur might go into the spokes (i.e. turn the pedals slowly).

6. Pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

Also, you might as well replace the chain anyways. Chains are one of those things that should be replaced after a while and since it'll cost you $10 to fix a link, you can just get a new chain (which already comes with a master link!) and put it on yourself. See if there's a bike co-op that lends out tools so you can shorten the chain or pay someone to shorten it for you. Putting it one would require no tools since the master link is a wonderful invention.

$10 to install a master link? Yikes Sounds like LBS's in your area are a bit on the pricey side. You should be able to find a 3/32" chain at walmart for $10 or get one on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Bike-Derailleur-Chain-2-Inch-32-Inch/dp/B004044QSE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1305254366&sr=8-2) (although a new chain might make your skipping problem worse than the old chain if your cogs are worn.) Get yourself a chain tool (http://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-CT-5-Chain-Brute/dp/B000RZMWE0/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1305254447&sr=1-3) while you are at if if you are on Amazon and you'll never have to worry about stinking master links again. A chain tool is a basic bicycle tool anyone should have if they don't want to be chained to a bad LBS that overcharges $10 for master links (http://www.amazon.com/KMC-410N-CL-Master-Single-Silver/dp/B000C126WM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1305254554&sr=1-3).

Chains wear out. They are cheap. If you are going to ride bikes you might as well learn to replace them and get the tool to do it.

Veloh- thanks for that awesome step-by-step guide. I plan on attempting to adjust the rear derailleur based on your instructions and a few videos I've watched this afternoon. I will update tonight when I finish.

What I guess I didn't make clear is that I already paid the 10 bucks to replace the broken link with a master link. I don't know why. I wanted to ride my bike this weekend and I had already dragged my bike out there so I figured I might as well do it. So, given that the chain is in one piece, should I replace the chain anyways still? If I did, I would definitely do it myself. I looked around for instructions and it looks like a fairly straightforward procedure (I'll probably kick myself for saying this later). Like you guys mentioned before, I'm worried that replacing with a new chain may make the skipping worse, or I guess it could fix it altogether.

So I guess I'm stuck here and I guess there's no way to know what will happen for sure....

The first question is if the chain is still skipping.

If the chain was stretched then your LBS should have told you that. Perhaps they did but advised you that a new chain would cause skipping. Even if it isn't skipping an out of spec chain is certainly going to eat what is left of that rear cartridge eventually. I guess it depends on how much you are going to ride it.

Adjusting the limit screws of the RD or even the cable (if need be) is a really simple job if the derailleur or hanger isn't bent. Your LBS should have seen this right off and told you about that.

I know you don't want to spend a lot of money on a bike, tools, or parts but I would suggest you get a book that will make working on them a cinch. Glenn's is very good and they are cheap as all get-out used. Look here and get yourself a copy for well under $10 with shipping -probably more like $5 (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=glenn%27s+bicycle&sts=t&x=0&y=0). It will take you step by step through even the most complex job and all you need to know how to do is read. I really encourage you learn a little bit more about wrenching if you want to ride and don't want to spend a lot of money on bikes (your LBS seems to be even more expensive than most.) If you do end up buying a walmart bike you are going to need to know even more about wrenching because they don't stay new very long and end up being even more work to keep up than a real bike like you have.

The LBS didn't measure my chain to see if it was stretched but I'll measure the chain using the Sheldon Brown method when I work on the RD tonight. If it's >1/16 inch off I'll go ahead and replace it which it probably is. I ride my bike a fair amount. I use it to get for commuting during the week, trips to the grocery store and nearby errands when I don't have a lot to carry, and also ride in the afternoon and on weekends when I have time. So yeah, it definitely gets use.

I do really want to learn more about fixing up my own bike. I've been reading up about it as much as I can on the internet but it's a little more difficult because it seems most of the stuff is written for newer bikes. I will definitely consider picking up a copy of that book you just posted.

In terms of replacing this bike with something newer, I think I'm going to stick with this bike for now. I would never replace it with a Wal-Mart bike. What I was considering was buying a new, low-end road bike from a LBS- maybe a Fuji or Jamis. However, I know that now is probably the worst time of year (for a consumer) to buy a bike so I'm definitely holding off on that. The only reason I was considering that is because I was worried (and still am) that I would have to sink 100+ dollars into this bike and have to buy a new freewheel. At that point, I would be nearly 300 dollars into the bike and who knows what would break in the future. A new road bike I figure will cost roughly 600 or so (maybe?) which may be a better deal in the long-run assuming it doesn't need major maintenance in the near term.

Yes, I was an econ major in college which probably means I'm over thinking this way too much. But money is always tight here and I don't want to sink 300 bucks into something that's going to continuously involve money and time (which I won't have much of after this summer).

But money is always tight here and I don't want to sink 300 bucks into something that's going to continuously involve money and time (which I won't have much of after this summer).

that is the catch with bikes though - best thing to do is bite the bullet in the beginning - tool up and learn some wrenching so that later on - you've got the tools, the knowledge and confidence to manage bike issues as they pop up

best thing to do really is to take a bike down to frame and reassemble - repacking bearings and such - you'll get a better sense of how it all works and you'll start to acquire the necessary tools - hopefully you enjoy the process too - and of course - come here - whatever question you have there is always somebody with some guidance

that is the catch with bikes though - best thing to do is bite the bullet in the beginning - tool up and learn some wrenching so that later on - you've got the tools, the knowledge and confidence to manage bike issues as they pop up

best thing to do really is to take a bike down to frame and reassemble - repacking bearings and such - you'll get a better sense of how it all works and you'll start to acquire the necessary tools - hopefully you enjoy the process too - and of course - come here - whatever question you have there is always somebody with some guidance

This is good advice. Also, I'd say you got a good deal on this bike- it's certainly a better deal that any $150 new bike! See if there's any bike co-ops in your area where you can rent tools and workspace for really cheap if you don't have space or tools at home. Often there'll be volunteers around to guide you too if you have a question. Take your time, learn as you go. Before you know it, you'll be hooked just like the rest of us.

Hurley, Maybe bike wrenching is not for you. It is not for everyone. I know I would not buy a new bike anymore, now that I can rebuild any derelict bike that comes along. I now can have bikes I only could have dreamed of as a kid, and I get them for pennies on the dollar. I can ride them and sell them off and build another one that might strike my fancy. I love these bikes more than a new bike, because I built them up just as I want. Friends will ask about bikes, and I will tell them that there are (were vintage bikes are way up in price) great values out there if they want to overhaul it themselves. If they are not interested in that I recommend a couple favorite LBS. I explain that the extra they will pay will be too help cover the “life time tune-ups”, fitting and advice on what bike to buy.
I assume that my view of world is different than others, because I look at things and see how they work. I think this gift is called “mechanical aptitude”, part of the reason I feel so comfortable in the C/V section is that others here share the same view so communication is easier.
So … That said, I think you are correct: you are over thinking things. If you can understand the Krebs cycle, you can understand a bicycle. When I look at the human body I see it in layers of different mechanical, chemical and electronic systems. To avoid being overwhelmed look at it this way : break the whole into a sub groups, and then diagnose the problem. The base mechanical level of a Bicycle is only a few layers of simple machines (Lever , Wheel and axle , Pulley, Inclined plane, Wedge, Screw). Later you can get into long debates of what chain lube works better at the molecular level .
Dr. Ehler PhD. taught me a principal it is the “Greatest Limiting Factor”(GLF) . You can address any problem by the GLF… Plants not growing, Car not fast enough, dinner doesn’t taste good etc …
Let’s look at chain skip: Chain is skipping – what is GLF? The barrels (o o) of the chain are not sitting in the “cradles” on the rear cog. Ok what is limiting them? Are they out of held out of alignment side to side by the derailer? If this is the case it would make noise all the time because the bumping of the chain coming into alignment. Is the spacing of the cog UU out of alignment with the chain (0 0) chain so they do not mesh? If so do you have the correct parts (obviously you do), Are the parts worn out? Measure the chain to spec. per Sheldon Brown. If it was out of spec, replace you have now removed the GLF. Now test and see if you have anything other limiting factors, assess and address the next GLF. If it is the Mallard cog, drop me pm and I will “pay it forward” and give you my spare one (as long as I can find it),or get rid of the old Mallard and prevent a lot of GLF’s in the future
Then again if wrenching is not for you, I try to understand, but my view is tainted by how I see the world.

good points -getting into C&V - i certainly wasnt thinking i was getting into wrenching - but what happened for me was i got tired of going to the LBS - paying for their help and waiting for their help - i also felt kinda foolish too - not to mention many LBS mechanics have zero interest in your C&V bike - so i dove in - tore down a rusty 71 varsity and having been trying to up my IQ and tool up ever since - warn of warning - n+1 is addictive - not only w bikes - but also w tools if you should be so inclined

There are a few tools every rider should have around -a bike pump and a chain tool are pretty high up there. Any bike is going to need maintenance. Even if one where to buy a top-end bike it's going to eventually need adjustment and some minor wrenching every once in a while. There is no getting around that. Bikes live a hard life and since they are lightweight they have to give up a certain degree of ruggedness or they would weight 50lbs. They aren't like a car that can go 100k between tune-ups.

Having a Glenn's and being familiar with the basic chores (as well as what is involved with some of the more indepth ones) let's a rider do the preventative maintenance that keeps a bike going and hopefully avoids the more expensive stuff. A few tools here and there as you go is not a big expense and is much less expensive than taking it to your LBS. Once a tool is bought it is there to use for life if one takes care of it. And bicycle tools are darn cheap compared to other tools except for some of the really specialized weird stuff that you might not ever encounter and if you do then it is usually just cheaper/better to have your LBS handle that weird stuff.

Lastly, wrenching on your own bike brings understanding of what is going on below your pedals when you are riding and improves the whole experience of riding IMHO. It's a Zen and the art of Bicycle Maintenance thing...

You can always sneak up on it slowly and just do a few things at first until you get your feet wet.

well said - the best thing is if you can have more than one bike - so you can keep riding while you tear the other down

Veloh- thanks for that awesome step-by-step guide. I plan on attempting to adjust the rear derailleur based on your instructions and a few videos I've watched this afternoon. I will update tonight when I finish.

What I guess I didn't make clear is that I already paid the 10 bucks to replace the broken link with a master link. I don't know why. I wanted to ride my bike this weekend and I had already dragged my bike out there so I figured I might as well do it. So, given that the chain is in one piece, should I replace the chain anyways still? If I did, I would definitely do it myself. I looked around for instructions and it looks like a fairly straightforward procedure (I'll probably kick myself for saying this later). Like you guys mentioned before, I'm worried that replacing with a new chain may make the skipping worse, or I guess it could fix it altogether.

So I guess I'm stuck here and I guess there's no way to know what will happen for sure....

No problem, let us know if there's still some issues. Since you bought the chain anyways, use it. More than likely the skipping is derailleur/shifter issues. Remember to tighten the bolts on your shifters since if they are lose, they slip and cause chain skipping. Also, new freewheels don't cost $100 but since your rear wheel might use an outdated, incompatible component, when time comes, replacing the whole back wheel would be more time efficient. Don't worry about that though, your freewheel will need to be dying for that.

And remember to find a co-op if you can. Nice places to be at if you need help.

Hey all,

Thanks for all the replies. I just finished working on the RD and fixed all of the shifting issues! It was way easier than all the instructions on the internet made it seem. I just got sat down next to the bike, played with the shifter, saw how it worked mechanically, and figured out how to fix it pretty much through logic. Once you sit down and spend a few minutes seeing how it works physically, it is way easier than the internet and guides make it seem. It now goes into biggest cog perfectly when the shifter is all the way taught and not into the spokes and perfectly into the smallest cog when the shifter is loosest and not off the cogs.

I have a few more questions though. I did a ride up and down the block a few times and made a few adjustments but I found that the chain is skipping at the smallest cogs (the smallest two which I think Sheldon says is where the skipping usually starts). Especially when I'm pedaling hard (I live on an incline) the cogs skip. Here are a few pictures of the cogs (sorry for the poor image quality, just have a camera phone)

201831201832

Also, Veloh mentioned I should tighten the bolts on my shifter because they could be causing chain skipping. Where would I find these bolts?

I measured the chain and roughly 1/16 of an inch off-center. Sheldon says I can get away with just replacing the chain without touching the cogs. Any opinions based on these photos? Should I go ahead and replace the chain?

Also, can someone point me in the right direction on how to replace the cable for my downtube friction shifters? I now know how the cable goes into the RD (I tightened it a bit) but not sure how it goes into the shifter assembly on the downtube itself. The cable just seems to disappear into it. I took a few photos of the shifter here:

201833201834201835

I feel great that I was able to fix the RD and learn a lot while doing it. It was a simple job. I never felt frustrated and it was really a joy to learn how the parts worked. I do understand though why a bike stand would be nice. It was a bit of a pain to constantly pick up the bike to pedal the wheel and flip it over. But those are expensive and I can definitely do without one for now. Thanks so much for all the help and support so far!!!

BTW mods: should I be posting this in the mechanics subforum or is it okay here?

On the shifters, you should see a loop. Twist that. That's the bolt. Shifter cables looks like a normal cable with a head, which goes into the shifter. That's why it looks like it disappears in it. You change a cable, loosen it from the rear derailleur and thread it out backwards.

Freewheel looks a little worn in the middle but okay. It's a Helicomatic so when the freewheel dies, your rear wheel might as well be replaced.

When you pedal hard, does the chain shift on it's own or does it make a loud clang sound? If it shifts, you can:

1. Tighten the rear quick release more.
2. fudge with the 'H' screw a little more

If it still skips, a new chain might be in order especially since it was a broken one...

OK, when you say loop do you mean the metal D-ring on the side of the shifters?

Also, when I pedal hard the chain does not shift, just seems to be skipping teeth. Makes an awful cracking/clanging sound. I'm pretty sure it's the chain.

Does it matter what type of chain I buy? Looks like according to Sheldon, they're all the same size (I think?)

If I pay more, will that translate into longer life/a quieter chain? I'm debating between these on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/SRAM-P-Link-Bicycle-Chain-8-Speed/dp/B000VDFQAA/ref=sr_1_13?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1305337763&sr=1-13

http://www.amazon.com/SRAM-P-Link-Bicycle-Chain-8-Speed/dp/B00161FWJG/ref=sr_1_7?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1305337763&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-CN-HG70-8-Speed-Chain-Black/dp/B0013EP7IW/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1305337763&sr=1-6

Nevermind. Didn't see there was a second page..

OK, when you say loop do you mean the metal D-ring on the side of the shifters?

Also, when I pedal hard the chain does not shift, just seems to be skipping teeth. Makes an awful cracking/clanging sound. I'm pretty sure it's the chain.

Does it matter what type of chain I buy? Looks like according to Sheldon, they're all the same size (I think?)

If I pay more, will that translate into longer life/a quieter chain? I'm debating between these on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/SRAM-P-Link-Bicycle-Chain-8-Speed/dp/B000VDFQAA/ref=sr_1_13?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1305337763&sr=1-13

http://www.amazon.com/SRAM-P-Link-Bicycle-Chain-8-Speed/dp/B00161FWJG/ref=sr_1_7?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1305337763&sr=1-7

http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-CN-HG70-8-Speed-Chain-Black/dp/B0013EP7IW/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1305337763&sr=1-6

Yes, the D-ring. However, by the sound of it, it seems like something is worn rather than needing proper adjustment. Chains are mostly similar unless you want something superlight. Those chains seem fine as lont as you get the right size (3/32"). KMC makes nice chains. This one is even nickle-plated:http://www.amazon.com/KMC-Z30NP-Chain-Nickel-Plated/dp/B000AYFRUE

Thanks to ebr898 for the kind offer of his extra Mallard in case I need one.

And also many thanks to Veloh for helping me out every step of the way.

The D-rings were already as tight as they could go so there wasn't much I could do there. I ordered a chain, Park Tool mini chain tool, and Glenn's New Complete Bicycle Manual from Amazon last night. All the stuff should be here by the middle of next week and I plan on putting on the new chain as soon as everything gets here.

Thanks again for all the help you guys. You really helped me feel a lot more confident that I could maintain this bike on my own and keep it running like new without spending literally hundreds of dollars at my LBS to do it!

If you can get a hold of some scrap chain it is a good idea to practice with your new chain tool a bit before doing it on the new chain. Maybe try it on your old chain a few times to get the hang of what needs to be done. It's not HARD, but it is sort of a knack. You do not want to push the pin out further than is necessary to get the chain to come apart. It's a common first-timer mistake to push the pin all the way out or at least too far so that the tool either can't open wide enough to push it back in or it binds/twists/gets cock-eyed rather than pushing in straight. Once you do it a couple of times you will understand the process and how to use the tool's other teeth to loosen up a tight link which often happens when you first put a link back together.

Here is the Park Tool chain guide (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/chain-installation-derailleur-bikes) for deraileur chains. It pretty much is the same for any major tool even though the tool they show isn't the one you bought it'll work more or less the same way.

If you can get a hold of some scrap chain it is a good idea to practice with your new chain tool a bit before doing it on the new chain. Maybe try it on your old chain a few times to get the hang of what needs to be done. It's not HARD, but it is sort of a knack. You do not want to push the pin out further than is necessary to get the chain to come apart. It's a common first-timer mistake to push the pin all the way out or at least too far so that the tool either can't open wide enough to push it back in or it binds/twists/gets cock-eyed rather than pushing in straight. Once you do it a couple of times you will understand the process and how to use the tool's other teeth to loosen up a tight link which often happens when you first put a link back together.

Here is the Park Tool chain guide (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/chain-installation-derailleur-bikes) for deraileur chains. It pretty much is the same for any major tool even though the tool they show isn't the one you bought it'll work more or less the same way.

Thanks for the link. I had looked at the Park Tool guide yesterday and was disappointed because the article goes in detail about how to install a Shimano chain, but not an SRAM chain which is what I bought.

For the SRAM chains, you don't need to worry about the rivert correct? From what I understand (watching a youtube video), you just need to cut the chain by removing a rivet the entire way and then the powerlink goes between two small ends. So I'm assuming you can't screw up an SRAM chain by pushing the rivet out too far because you need to pull it out all the way to cut the chain?

I'll practice on the old chain anyways. I plan on cutting it and then practicing putting it back together and taking it apart a few times before I attempt it on the new chain. From what I've read online, if it doesn't have a powerlink and you push the rivet out all the way you're screwed and have to get a new chain....which is scary

SRAM and Shimano chains use the same basic concept to shorten.
Here's how to shorten the chain without a master link or if you want to keep the chain pieces usable later.

0. Read the directions.
1. Use the chain tool to push the rivet >almost< out.
2. Bend the chain slightly and it should "click" apart.
3. If the rivet comes out, you don't have to get a new chain but it is a pain to get it back in.
4. Use master link.

if you do pop the rivet good luck getting it back in - but yeah i dont think a new chain is neccessary - most would say u do but what i have done when this happened was a took a a piece off another old chain and replaced it with that - chain works fine but like i said some would balk at the idea

OK, maybe I'm confused because I've never really seen an SRAM chain and the pictures on the Park Tool website are a bit vague.

But basically, there needs to be a rivet on both open ends for the master link to connect the two ends together? I made a rudimentary drawing to illustrate what I'm thinking:

201925

If you click the drawing it gets bigger so you can actually see what's going on. Please let me know if the drawing doesn't come out correctly!

if you do pop the rivet good luck getting it back in - but yeah i dont think a new chain is neccessary - most would say u do but what i have done when this happened was a took a a piece off another old chain and replaced it with that - chain works fine but like i said some would balk at the idea

Most new chains come with extra links for most applications. If you mess one up and can't get the link in then break the other side of the link that you ruined and dispose of it if you can't get it back in (if you are good it can be done but it is a PITA.) Now that you had to punt and cut off one extra link your chain is too short but you can take links off of the short part you cut off to make it longer again.

This is why you should practice on your old chain. Once you get the hang of what you are doing and what needs to be done it's not very likely you'll make that mistake again. With a few practice tries you'll be an old pro. You have a whole old chain to take apart and put back together. Give yourself a half hour max and you will be an expert.

Ah, please disregard my last post. I went on the SRAM website and looked directly at the manufacturer's instructions. Seems pretty straightforward.

As long as I can get good at removing links and putting them back together this will be a breeze. I will definitely take my time practicing taking apart and putting the old chain back together again. Will update this thread once I get the chain, chain tool, and attempt to put on the new chain.

Fingers crossed that this fixes the skipping at the smallest cogs!

The chain tool is simple enough to use and it seems you're mechanically inclined, so you'll be fine with the new chain. Just check, double-check and triple-check everything before shortening the chain.

As far as the chain is concerned, if possible get one that uses a master link that can be disassembled and you'll not have to worry with properly riveting a chain.

Blah. Just posted in the Bike Mechanics forum in response to someone else's post about replacing a freewheel and got into a discussion about my Maillard hub.

Folks over there don't seem optimistic at all that a new chain is going to fix this skipping problem at the smallest 2 cogs and that I'm going to have to replace the wheel which is not going to be cheap at all.

Pretty down about the bike. Looking around at prices for a new 27 inch wheel, it's going to cost more than a hundred bucks to get wheels and a new cassette. They also seemed to think putting 700c wheels wouldn't work well on the frame, at least not without a lot of adjustments. At this point if the chain doesn't work I'm just going to try to dump it on CL for what I paid. Hopefully someone will pick it up and I won't be out 150 bucks...learned my lesson about buying used bikes when I don't know what I'm doing :-/

Keep your head up.

New wheels cost more than used. Keep that in mind. Ask around bike shops, co-ops, and check CL for used wheels. I got mine for $40 and that was "expensive." 700c wheels will work on the bike, you just have to make sure that the brakes can go low enough to hit the rim.

My advice? Find a rear 27in wheel. It should be cheap since people want 700c. If you can overcome the freewheel issue, then you can overcome anything on a bike short of wheelbuilding. Funny though, the freewheel doesn't seem that worn....

Well for new you are about right on just over $100:
http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1824 (free shipping)
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=434801

I have reviewed the RI craigslist. I know the market is down, but I would say your the prices are lower there than here. I did notice a few "donor cycle" possablitys. Here is an example :
http://providence.craigslist.org/bik/2370451500.html

Sterling was made for Univega, could have a nice set of wheels for $60 asking price.

The 27 to 700 is only 4mm ost brakes have enough adjustment, I have only had a few that I had to get a differnet brake set for. My view may be differnt because I keep a parts bin, like most of the C/V ers . So going out to find a different brake set is a rare occurance. I go accross the shop open a drawer and sort through the brakes if I don't have it I call other bike guys, keep my eyes out at thrift stores, garage sales, trash day etc.

Oh, and what is with the guy on Craigslist wanting bikes for snakes? Seems a little strange, Snakes can't ride bikes: They dont have legs!

Rim shot!:D Just trying to cheer ya up.

Well for new you are about right on just over $100:
http://bikeisland.com/cgi-bin/BKTK_STOR20.cgi?Action=Details&ProdID=1824 (free shipping)
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=434801

I have reviewed the RI craigslist. I know the market is down, but I would say your the prices are lower there than here. I did notice a few "donor cycle" possablitys. Here is an example :
http://providence.craigslist.org/bik/2370451500.html

Sterling was made for Univega, could have a nice set of wheels for $60 asking price.

The 27 to 700 is only 4mm ost brakes have enough adjustment, I have only had a few that I had to get a differnet brake set for. My view may be differnt because I keep a parts bin, like most of the C/V ers . So going out to find a different brake set is a rare occurance. I go accross the shop open a drawer and sort through the brakes if I don't have it I call other bike guys, keep my eyes out at thrift stores, garage sales, trash day etc.

Would something like this have 27 inch wheels and a normal freewheel?

http://providence.craigslist.org/bik/2382199651.html

It is a "70's Schwinn Road Tour Bike". says that some of the spokes need adjusting but that's something I can do on my own. Maybe I'm getting too far ahead of myself and should just wait for the new chain first and go from there. I just posted back here because I was pretty down from what the guys in the other forum said.

Just did some searching on Niagara cycle as well, looks like they have a bunch of rear 27 inch wheels for a wide range in prices (which are all very reasonable assuming shipping isn't a killer). Does anyone know the differences between them?

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=415133

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=507372

http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=4652

Also, I guess I would have to figure out if I would have to replace the RD if I put a 7 speed freewheel on because it's currently a 6 speed now...