Tandem Cycling - Setup the tandem for TT... WOW

This bike is an absolute weapon at high speeds.

Now that my wife and I are doing RAAM with Team JDRF-IGA this year, the bike has to be setup to be fast against the clock.

I wont go into detail on the strategy for our team, but essentially each tandem does a MAX effort 20 min pull, and then gets to rest for about an hour, then do it over and over again for 3,000 miles across the country.

So this is not about comfort over long distances, it is about pure SPEED. However there are some considerations for RAAM, that don't come with your normal time trial. Mainly the fact that you will be covering every type of terrain imaginable, so you still need good positions for climbing and technical descents, etc.

OK, so on to the bike setup...

AERO BAR SETUP:

We have done TT's before, on both the Calfee and the old Santana. The trouble I have with the Calfee, is I could not get the bars low enough to be really aero, at least with the Profile T2 bars I had. For those occasional TTs, we didn't care that much, but for RAAM we need to go faster.

I could have got a -24 deg stem or something, but that would screw up my other bar positions. So my quest was to find aero bars that put the pads as low as possible, and get a -17 degree stem as a compromise.

Well I found these bars (Vision Tech Pro Carbon -- see pic) and a -17 deg (110mm) stem combination to work perfect! It feels solid and wicked fast. I used the smallest pad riser in the kit, and the pads literally sit right on the handle bar. They are perfect fore/aft also, just far enough to miss my knees while out of the saddle. They feel good enough to stay in them through gnetle curves.

I got a 3T -17 deg stem.

http://images.jensonusa.com/large/hb/hb401b03car__26___230.jpg

CHAINRINGS:

Went with 56/42/30. I got a Dura Ace 56t big ring, and it was very tricky to setup... I could not fit anything bigger, this is the absolute limit of whats possible on our Calfee frame (due to the location of the bottle cage mounting stud) and a 6703 FD.

Once everything is dialed, the shifting is good up front.

http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/dura-ace-7800-outerchainring-med.jpg

Check out this pull on our RAAM training ride: http://app.strava.com/rides/573526

This is where the chaining and the aero bars both shine. The 56t allowed us to crank the pedals a few times at speeds over 40 mph, when the slope flattened out, to avoid speed loss. I was able to get in the aero bars for longer straightaways, including a few flat sections and slight climbs with headwinds. If you look at the heart rate data, you can see it wasn't an "all coasting" descent.

I will post some pictures of the bike soon, and us on it too!!

A downhill time trial? How cool is that....

A downhill time trial? How cool is that....

We got lucky with our spot on the rotation that time!

We got to go uphill too:
http://app.strava.com/rides/573393

Here's one pic I found from the crew van.

Need aero helmets now...

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/230109_2025774929467_1396841868_32357246_562743_n.jpg

Have fun! You guys are going to go really fast! Wish I could be riding with you this year. :(

Damn....that route looks fun!!

Another pic... a *rare* (I hope) moment Ruth sat up a bit. ;)

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/230862_2018326543262_1396841868_32348046_4887690_n.jpg

Looking great Marco! That was an awesome descent.

Homey: We sure wish you were there riding with us. You should have seen the pull Wade and Roehl had up Toll House RD, they ripped it apart.

If you get aero helmets try to find well ventilated ones. Speaking from experience.

We got to go uphill too:
http://app.strava.com/rides/573393

So you missed the Tollhouse (http://app.strava.com/segments/647148)leg while in the sag van?

So you missed the Tollhouse (http://app.strava.com/segments/647148)leg while in the sag van?

Yep!

Looking great Marco! That was an awesome descent.

Homey: We sure wish you were there riding with us. You should have seen the pull Wade and Roehl had up Toll House RD, they ripped it apart.

No doubt!!!! I've know both of them for a long time and thought they'd really go together well on the tandem.

Marco, you know for RAAM you only need one water bottle on your Calfee. ;) I run a 60 on mine with no problem.

Team JDRF has a really fast team this year! If you guys don't do a five day crossing something not so good has to happen.

Yeah, we only used one the rest of the time. I need to remove all the extra bottle cages too.

Wade + Roehl were crazy!

There is no way a 60t would fit our M/S Calfee, unless I had them remove the bottle cage stud on the rear seat tube. The bonded platform for the stud is right where the FD clamp would go.

I see what you're talking about now. Yours must be in a little bit lower than mine. My clamp is right up against the stud platform.

Calfee can remove the bottle cage stud and then replace it later. My understanding is they use a heat gun to melt the glue then they can remove the stud. They did it on my bike (actually the brake bridge) withoiut a problem.

I see what you're talking about now. Yours must be in a little bit lower than mine. My clamp is right up against the stud platform.
Mine barely fits with a 54 tooth. LBS had to pick a clamp with as thin a band as possible. I mentioned this to Calfee in the hope they might give others a little more room.

I wont go into detail on the strategy for our team, but essentially each tandem does a MAX effort 20 min pull, and then gets to rest for about an hour, then do it over and over again for 3,000 miles across the country.

It seems natural that there would be specialization within Team JDRF-IGA, with different tandem teams/bikes used preferentially for climbing, flat and downhill sections. Is that how it works?

It's top secret Ritterview. He'll have to shoot you if he tells you. ;)

I suggest a mirror, to spy on the wife.
My wife sits up like that all the time, usually when I am pedaling my arse off towards the end of a ride.
I usually mutter, thats o.k. dear, just let me know if you want to sit up and take a break.

Seriously, good luck. You guys rock. keep us posted.

If you can't feel her helmet knocking on your back you know she is sitting up too much:).

You are so full of it. I was going to throw up after I read your bit.You do have an awful lot to learn about RAAM, my friend.
Overall speed is important, of course, but you better have a lot of endurance inside to provide that speed. If not you will implode quickly! Glancing over the CTC stats, that may very well be a problem for you. Instead of posting aboutridiculous tead, maybe you should spend these last 27 days getting some training, maybe throw in a few uphill as well.
Bragging about a "downhill TT"? come on!!! TandemGeek summed it up pretty well...."thats cool...." Who knows, maybe you will be the downhill specialist. Be sure to pull the descent off Mingus Mtn and out of Jerome. That would be fun to see, as well as descending La Vita and Cuchara. Thank God you have some smart teammates, you will need it.
Your team should pass me somewhere in W. VA, if all goes well. I will be watching for you and give you a wave. Good luck, Cowboy

Raamrider, he's on an 8 bike team. It is all about speed and he's doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing. Between all the riders on the team they have over 30 RAAM crossings and several RAAM records. This team knows what it's doing. They are extremely fast and they'll probably finish in almost half the time it takes you riding solo. BTW, Since you know the RAAM route you should know that the descent into Mexican Hat is the fastest on the route... ;)

Actually, he is on a 4 bike team, 8 riders.
If you don't have endurance, then you won't have the speed for long, esp on RAAM
I'm not questioning his teammates. As I said, he is lucky to have them. They are smart (and humble) Unlike him with his HUGE ego and big mouth.
As far as the finish, I sure HOPE they finish in front of me. It would be pretty sad if they didn't, being 8 riders.
And yes, I do know the route and have ridden it. Mexican Hat is a nice descent, but Jerome is Technically extremely treacherous.

You guys can debate this all throughout RAAM.
I have more important things to focus on rather than blabbing on this thread.
Good luck Cowboy

No, he's on an eight tandem, sixteen rider team.

Yeah the descent into Jerome is technical, bumpy and full of tourists when the teams go through there. Way too much traffic to go real fast. I passed more than two dozen cars going down it last year. Not a whole lot of fun.

Don't know why you feel the need to slam him, whatever. I'll see you at the start. :)

You are so full of it. I was going to throw up after I read your bit.You do have an awful lot to learn about RAAM, my friend...

I'm not questioning his teammates. As I said, he is lucky to have them. They are smart (and humble) Unlike him with his HUGE ego and big mouth....

You guys can debate this all throughout RAAM.

Good luck Cowboy

Is it just me, or does anyone else get a Breaking Away villian vibe out of this?


http://i54.tinypic.com/2eusgh4.jpg

Actually, he is on a 4 bike team, 8 riders.
If you don't have endurance, then you won't have the speed for long, esp on RAAM
I'm not questioning his teammates. As I said, he is lucky to have them. They are smart (and humble) Unlike him with his HUGE ego and big mouth.
As far as the finish, I sure HOPE they finish in front of me. It would be pretty sad if they didn't, being 8 riders.
And yes, I do know the route and have ridden it. Mexican Hat is a nice descent, but Jerome is Technically extremely treacherous.

You guys can debate this all throughout RAAM.
I have more important things to focus on rather than blabbing on this thread.
Good luck Cowboy

I was really just talking about the bike setup that impressed me.... It's fun to post up the strava links, but I don't see where I was really bragging about my abilities. If you re-read my post, you will see it mostly discusses the setup of the bike, and my thoughts on that. As far as the "downhill TT" it was an example of a segment where the more aero setup and bigger chainring made a big difference.

Honestly, I am not that fast, and I know that. Most of my team are faster than we are. I think we were in beter shape back in 2008/09. This is our first RAAM, and I was just excited about the whole experience, and the new bike setup. PS- I know for a fact I could never do RAAM solo. So major kudos to you for being able to do that. I appreciate advice from veterans, but perhaps you would consider a nicer tone.

If I came across as a bargard, that was not my intention. I consider myself pretty humble (the reality of speed and ability is what it is, and I understand that). I do like to give it my all though, and will do so for my team this summer.

Good Luck!

PS -

CTC stats are not the best indicator to look at, as those rides can go so many different ways.

Here are 3 good examples:

The recent 2011 Devil Mountain Double (solo bike)
- I was in the front group approaching the base of Mt. Diablo, and my front derailleur cracked (the cast Al arm that pushes the cage in/out). I had to remove it with my muti-tool, and then duct tape (from SAG) the cable to my head tube to keep it out of the way. I had to "toe shift" for nearly 200 miles.
- I got 2 flats, both at awful times
- I crashed on Mines Rd in some gravel right when I was getting a good second wind.
- I spent a really long time at lunch bandaging up my road rash. All this happened in the first half of the ride. I was no longer motivated to go fast. Cruised in at a steady pace. I had nearly 4 hours of stopped time! But I finished the ride, which is all I wanted to do at that point.

2010 Devil Mountain Double
- I was 2nd on the scene to a fallen Tom Milton, and was the one who administered CPR, and unfortunately didn't succede. :(
- Rode to Crothers and SAG'd it in...

2009 Devil Mountain Double
- Rode the staff ride, was in the 2nd half group, waited for "rolling suport" and regrouped with others at several points along the way. Hours of stopped time (and it was our first double).

Finally, we tend not to "race" doubles on the tandem. We just pick the hardest or most interesting ones and ride a steady pace.

We love you guys and you will do great in the event. Your race and endurance resume are superb and the people who know you are all that matter. Best of luck.

USPSPRO, you don't need to justify anything. From everyone I've talked to you and your wife are kicking butt! :) Remember, you weren't asked to be on the team because you were slow (I know that first hand;)). ;) This is your first RAAM, it'll be an event you'll remember the rest of your life. You have every right to be excited. Keep doing what you're doing.:thumb:

USPSPRO, For the life of me I can't figure out what that persons problem is, but I fully understand why he rides solo. Glad you're on the team.

When we set our bike up for TTs I found there to be a lot of possible combinations that would difficult to decide on without using a wind tunnel.
Everyone pretty much knows what to do with a single bike and even they say wind tunnel time is well worth while for those that are serious.
A tandem is quite a bit more complex.
For example as the rider increases his drop to the aero bars he normally loses some power but more than compensates by better aero.
But is this the case on a tandem? The wind he may be "cheating" might just get the stoker and the gain might not be there.
Does the captain ride with a forward saddle (triathlon style) to give the stoker more room to tuck their arms and head in?
Does the stoker ride on the bull horns or crunch up a bit and have their hands behind the captain? If they do, do they have their hands close together or maybe a little wider so they are more behind the captains legs?
I certainly don't know the answers, just the questions.

The drop on my solo bike is a bit more than the tandem was. With this -17 deg stem the drop is probably about the same as the solo. Right now, just based on feel, the setup seems like an excellent one. This is the 3rd set of aero bars I tried.

As far as saddle position. I am keeping it where it is for now, so that I am still in a good position for climbing/descending, and just riding "on the rivet" when on the flats in the aero bars. I might try going forward 5mm (and up to compensate) as a test this week.

PS - thanks for the kind words.

This bike is an absolute weapon at high speeds.

Check out this pull on our RAAM training ride: http://app.strava.com/rides/573526

I was looking at Climb to Kaiser (http://www.climbtokaiser.com/) (which I'll be doing Saturday on my half-bike) sections on Strava, and came across the Auberry Descent (http://app.strava.com/rides/573526#8595466), listing 16 riders who have logged that section.

Marco and Ruth's descent was amazing. They averaged 37 mph, the next closest 32. Compare to Cat 1/2 Clark Foy, who averaged 29 mph while placing 7th (http://www.climbtokaiser.com/content/finishers/kaiser_2009.html) at the Climb to Kaiser.

Will be interesting to hear the RAAM ride report.

You can follow them on http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/raam/rcrank.php?s_N_category_group=2&s_N_Race_ID=1 They are Team JDRF. Scroll down to the 8 bike teams. They are currently 4th amoung the 8 man teams most of the way through the Rockies and they are still averaging over 20mph! There are some climbing fools on that team. When they hit the plains they should catch at least a couple of the teams ahead of them.

Check out this pull on our RAAM training ride: http://app.strava.com/rides/573526


179 watts for 23 minutes?

179 watts for 23 minutes?

You won't get an answer for a while. They're racing. They've currently gone approximately 1500miles non-stop for three days with an average speed of 21.01mph. How many watts is that? ;)

Go Marco and Ruth....

179 watts for 23 minutes?

It was a descent, powered by gravity, not watts. And anyway, this is just a Strava estimate of watts from what it thinks is a single bike with a 290 lb. rider.

This bike is an absolute weapon at high speeds.

Now that my wife and I are doing RAAM with Team JDRF-IGA this year, the bike has to be setup to be fast against the clock.

I wont go into detail on the strategy for our team, but essentially each tandem does a MAX effort 20 min pull, and then gets to rest for about an hour, then do it over and over again for 3,000 miles across the country.

So this is not about comfort over long distances, it is about pure SPEED. However there are some considerations for RAAM, that don't come with your normal time trial. Mainly the fact that you will be covering every type of terrain imaginable, so you still need good positions for climbing and technical descents, etc.

OK, so on to the bike setup...

AERO BAR SETUP:

We have done TT's before, on both the Calfee and the old Santana. The trouble I have with the Calfee, is I could not get the bars low enough to be really aero, at least with the Profile T2 bars I had. For those occasional TTs, we didn't care that much, but for RAAM we need to go faster.

I could have got a -24 deg stem or something, but that would screw up my other bar positions. So my quest was to find aero bars that put the pads as low as possible, and get a -17 degree stem as a compromise.

Well I found these bars (Vision Tech Pro Carbon -- see pic) and a -17 deg (110mm) stem combination to work perfect! It feels solid and wicked fast. I used the smallest pad riser in the kit, and the pads literally sit right on the handle bar. They are perfect fore/aft also, just far enough to miss my knees while out of the saddle. They feel good enough to stay in them through gnetle curves.

I got a 3T -17 deg stem.

http://images.jensonusa.com/large/hb/hb401b03car__26___230.jpg

CHAINRINGS:

Went with 56/42/30. I got a Dura Ace 56t big ring, and it was very tricky to setup... I could not fit anything bigger, this is the absolute limit of whats possible on our Calfee frame (due to the location of the bottle cage mounting stud) and a 6703 FD.

Once everything is dialed, the shifting is good up front.

http://s.wiggle.co.uk/images/dura-ace-7800-outerchainring-med.jpg

Check out this pull on our RAAM training ride: http://app.strava.com/rides/573526

This is where the chaining and the aero bars both shine. The 56t allowed us to crank the pedals a few times at speeds over 40 mph, when the slope flattened out, to avoid speed loss. I was able to get in the aero bars for longer straightaways, including a few flat sections and slight climbs with headwinds. If you look at the heart rate data, you can see it wasn't an "all coasting" descent.

I will post some pictures of the bike soon, and us on it too!!

Have you done this going the other way? Would really like to see the stats of that one. T

We saw them riding RAAM today and they were smoking. We followed them for a few miles and we were very impressed with the way they were riding, it appeared that they were really concentrating on the ride. I never saw either one of them get out of the aero position. They flew through some rollers on highway 40 West of Effingham, Il.

Wayne

Go Marco and Ruth. You guys have now achieved ridiculous status. Cow bell ringing.

How do you get on one of these RAAM teams?

Here's a pic (http://www.flickr.com/photos/straightedge/5865091924/in/set-72157627032599436) someone took at a RAAM checkpoint in Greenville, IL, and uploaded on Flickr.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5278/5865091924_23512c43a0_z.jpg

Hi Marci & Ruth:
Congratulations on your RAAM ride. I rode with both of you a little bit on the WMD last year. You were both class acts then and I totally get your direction on this post. Nice response too. You definitely took the high road.
My next door neighbor was on the ViaSat team that just barely beat your team JDRF-IGA. A lot of their posts concerned your team and how fast you were. They weren't sure they could hold your team off.
Well done

My next door neighbor was on the ViaSat team that just barely beat your team JDRF-IGA. A lot of their posts concerned your team and how fast you were. They weren't sure they could hold your team off.
Well done

We battled with ViaSat to the very end. It was a lot of fun!

Thanks everyone, for the kind words.

Like I said, you two are class acts. Maybe Ramrider can learn from you. Again...maybe not.
Well done.

Will be interesting to hear the RAAM ride report.



We battled with ViaSat to the very end. It was a lot of fun!

Well... there you have it then, the uspspro RAAM ride report! Brief, but to the point.

Well... there you have it then, the uspspro RAAM ride report! Brief, but to the point.


That was just about it! ;) Via Sat was quite shocked to get passed by tandems going up hill!

Well... there you have it then, the uspspro RAAM ride report! Brief, but to the point.

I will have to assemble a better ride report soon. Looking to get some more pictures first, and of course, gather my thoughts... it was an incredible experience.