Road Cycling - Knees and Saddle Height

Okay, what gives? I keep reading/hearing conflicting statements about saddle-height and knee problems. One school of thought holds that pain behind the knee (back of leg) can be caused by a saddle being too low. The competing philosophy dictates that such pain is caused by it being too high. (I realize that these notions are not mutually exclusive, but I am interested in fine-tuning my saddle height, so I am not talking about radical differences here.) So which is it?

I want Truth! I realize that I am going to get responses subscribing to both philosophies, but let’s see who can be the most persuasive.

I am experiencing some pain/tension in the muscles in the back of the knee—not severe, but any pain in the knee is worth attention. My LBS thought my set-up looked about right, and that I would have to reach the right height now by trial and error. But, as I said before, I want Truth.

By the way, I wrote not too long ago about a different knee problem. That went away with a cleat adjustment.

Someone please enlighten me.

As always, my many thanks in advance. Cheers!

I just posted something about
the same subject in Mechanics section.
I don't think you are gonna get a definitive
answer on this. Both too high and too low
will cause problems/knee pain.
Just to throw a wrench in the works
(no offense to professional wrenches!)
fore and aft adjustment may also effect
knee problems
Like I say, indicision may or may not be my problem

Marty

Behind the knee pain is caused by the saddle being too high. Frontal knee pain from being too low. (if you want proof, just put your seatpost a little too high and ride around...hurts the back of the knees don't it? :) It's basically like walking around on your tip-toes. You strain the calves and those tendons attach where? Back of the knees, by golly!)

Your LBS is right, you have to go through trial and error for fine tuning since everyone has different levels of flexibility, comfort range and differences in whether they pedal with their toes or heels down (that alone can account for 2 people with the exact same measurements with one perfering a 2-3cm higher saddle).

I think I suggested you move your cleat fwd/back from before? You also need to check the fore/aft position of your saddle to move your knee more fwd/back in relation to your pedal stroke. The higher you move your seatpost, the more forward you need to move saddle. The lower, the more back you move the saddle. (A little at a time and let your body get used to it before you change it. If it's wrong, how is it wrong? Adjust accordingly).

Remember, it is all interconnected. If your seatpost is too high, your bars may feel too low! You need to get the saddle position right before you mess too much with the front 1/2 of your bike.

Sorry if this is vauge but everyone is different and it really is alot of careful measuring and trial and error to get the perfect fit. Thats why alot of people ride custom-made frames! Hope this helps

Originally posted by RacerX
Behind the knee pain is caused by the saddle being too high. Frontal knee pain from being too low. (if you want proof, just put your seatpost a little too high and ride around...hurts the back of the knees don't it? :) It's basically like walking around on your tip-toes. You strain the calves and those tendons attach where? Back of the knees, by golly!)


Does this mean I can get great calf muscles but riding with my seat to high. My legs are scrawny and I would get ripped calf muscles. ;) ;) ;)

Probably, but your knees will hurt so much you won't be able to walk around and show anyone your well defined muscles.

L8R

Bad news.... big calf muscles are genetic - you are stuck with those scrawny sticks for life.

Thanks all for the tips, esp. RacerX and Lotek. I lowered my saddle a good 5 to 7 mm, and set the fore-aft to put the back of the kneecap over the pedal spindle (it had been a bit forward). I went out for a nice little 43Km spin. Although the muscles behind my right knee are still a bit tender, I think that is residual. As I cool down this evening, nothing is tightening up any worse than before the ride today. I’ve got to test this position a few weeks, but it is surely much, much closer to what is right. And, I’ve got some quad muscles which have some catching up to do!

The strange part of this whole story is how this problem showed up only now. The bike is a bit big for me. I’m 173cm - 5’8”, and the bike is a 55 (I should have a 52-53). I raced long ago on this bike as a teen-ager, but then spent over 10 years with almost no riding. I started seriously again last summer after moving to Germany. Getting it out of the airline bike-box, I just set the saddle according to the old grease marks. Then I read Sheldon Brown’s comment about saddle elevation giving more power. I did raise it some (1 cm?), and I did feel more powerful. I didn’t notice any problems last fall (logging a good 2000Km in 3 months), but this spring has been rather hellish. As I started trying to correct things (like the cleat problem RacerX helped me with before), I did lower the saddle (a total of about 2.0 cm), which cured other maladies like numbness in the feet and a sore tush. Then, this knee problem struck like the plague. So, in effect, this problem showed up only when the saddle was slightly too high, but not when it was way to high. (Despite his good intentions, Mr. Brown really led me astray with his revisionism.)

So now I’ll try all this out. As it happens, the saddle is now just about at the mythical “inseam X .883”. I also have a top-tube/stem problem to solve. Hopefully, I can fix that this summer with a new bike. When you see my posts about how to adjust Index-Shifting derailleurs, you’ll know that the budgetary gods have smiled on my weary head.

Thanks again all.
Cheers,
Jamie