Training & Nutrition - Why does cycling kill muscle?

Everyone keeps saying that cycling eats away at fat and muscle mass, but im wondering why? Shouldnt the use of your arms and legs produce more muscle? adn even if you dont use much upper body during rides, wouldnt it just not affect muscle?

Just wondering...

the way your muscles grow strong is you damage them and they repair...that's about as simple as it gets....getting stronger each time.

Everyone keeps saying that cycling eats away at fat and muscle mass, but im wondering why? Shouldnt the use of your arms and legs produce more muscle? adn even if you dont use much upper body during rides, wouldnt it just not affect muscle?

Just wondering...


A sedentary person will certainly loose fat as a result of starting a rigorous cycling program. They may think they are loosing muscle too, but unless they are starving themselves, I don't see how that can happen. This can be checked by measuring strength.

but most cyclists have tiny arms, and i thought it was because cycling eats away any muscle mass... Somebody here said that theres almost no point in trying to lift weights and cycle, since its almost a waste?

no, I think they peobably meant that the strength in the arms is useless for cycling (which is debatable)..

but also, muscle eats fat. get more to get less, right?

but most cyclists have tiny arms, and i thought it was because cycling eats away any muscle mass... Somebody here said that theres almost no point in trying to lift weights and cycle, since its almost a waste?

I lift and ride. Both feel good so I do both.

:beer:
Joe

Hmmm, so if i jsut do like 50k rides, maybe once a week, it wont deplete muscle mass in arms?

LoL...not in your arms...

Not an expert, but an athlete for many years. Endurance events reduce muscle mass because the body can use muscle for energy when it runs out of other fuels. Muscle growth requires more physical exertion for a shorter interval. Two examples. Long distance runners versus sprinters. Two "running" events, two distinct body styles. Sprinters look stocky in comparison. This is also the reason "cheating" sprinters use steriods, while endurance events use doping and EPO. The other example, bicycle sprinters versus TDF riders. This is why interval training is important. You want more muscle while riding? Climb steeper hills, riding for shorter times. Climbing uses you arms as well as your legs. It is the difference in weight lifting between reps and weight.

I lift and ride. Both feel good so I do both.

:beer:
Joe

I'm with you!!! :D

mabey after a while it makes you lose muscle mass but I just started mountain biking about 4 1/2 months ago and I have gotten 100% stronger, proved to myself by getting up stuff that I couldnt get up when I started (by the way feels great!) so wouldnt this mean I am gaining muscle mass? When I started I just got over a severe asthma period of about 2 years where I couldnt do anything but watch TV and play video games so I was basically a walking peice of fat.

Dehydration will break down muscle, prolonged exercise will break down muscle, calorie deficit will break down muscle (especially when there is no fat to lose, energy has to come from somewhere). Combine these with little to no upper building lifting and you are bound to have small arms.

Most professional cyclists don't want alot of upper body mass, as it just adds more weight to hold them back. They have very strong legs, but skinny arms. If your diet is proper, you can have strong cycling legs, and lift weigths to maintain your upper body mass as well.
If you do both kinds of excersise frequently, then you want to make sure you do two things to help prevent muscle loss from excessive excersise.

1. Load up on carbs prior to a bike ride. This will provide you with enough energy to help prevent your body from searching out energy by breaking down your muscle tissue. Try to eat something after your ride with a little protein to help repair your legs and respiratory muscles.

2. When you are lifting weights, do kinda the same thing, but you shouldn't need to really load up on the carbs prior to your workout as you do for cycling, as this is not cardio-vascular excersise, so it doesn't draw as many immediate calories. However, it draws tons of calories after your workout to repair the torn cells in the muscle tissue. So, what you need to do is consume lots of protein after lifting weights. Try to keep the carbs low, and protein high after lifting weights. The energy from high protein foods like steak, or whey protein shakes, will be used to repair the muscle, and excess energy will be drawn from your fat cells, to lean you out with stronger larger muscles and less body fat.

Hope this helps.

Don't keep the carbs too low after a lifting session. Your insulin response is what drives your cells uptake of amino acids and glycogen. After lifting your body should be very responsive to carbs (insulin sensitivity) and a little maltodextrin or dextrose will do the trick to make sure any protein intake is able to get into the muscle cells.

That's why i specifically made mention of those whey protein energy shakes, as they have maltodextrin in most of them specifically for this reason. If you eat meat as a source of protein, there is natural amounts of carbs in the fat, but you also want somethihng to go with it, as meat is not a real high carb food. A good potato, and some fruit also helps.
At the same time though, you don't want your carbs soring high, otherwise, you could get a fat building process once the muscles are repaired.

mmm, good shiat patriot, that clears up a lot.. so ill be eatin fruit after a workout, and carbs before cycling... Are bagels with cream cheese full of carbs or protein?

Yes, bagels have good carbs. Any breads, or pastas are loaded with carbs. Fruit after a workout is good too. But, if you do some weight lifting, you may want something with some protein after your workout too.

mmm, good shiat patriot, that clears up a lot.. so ill be eatin fruit after a workout, and carbs before cycling... Are bagels with cream cheese full of carbs or protein?

Bagel is carby. Put some peanut butter on there instead of the cream cheese and you got some good protein too. Or hummus if you aren't a peanut butter fan.

Cycling does not eat away at muscle mass.

However, upper body muscle mass (except for the little you need to rock the bike on an out of the saddle climb) is just a liability especially in hill climbing. Competition favors cyclists who are as light as possible and anything that is not helping has to go.

Some people said that Lance Armstrong's bout with cancer actually HELPED him as a cyclist. Armstrong had been a triathelete and as such had much more upper body mass then he needed. But he could never get rid of it until he had chemotherapy which pretty much gets rid of everything. So when he recovered and went back into training, he got his cycling muscles back and his aerobic power but never put on the upper body mass. The result was that he was 10-15 lbs lighter which made him a force on hill climbs.

Now bicycling is an aerobic sport. High level aerobic activity requires sugar (glycogen). Once the body has ripped through the stored glycogen, it can only get sugar by ripping up muscle mass and converting it into sugar. If you do a lot of high intensity aerobic exercise and do not eat enough carbos, you could easily end up catabolizing muscle. But that is a matter of the balance of exercise and diet then anything else.

Another thing, is that sports take a fair amount of time. I suppose one could be a decent body builder and a decent cyclist but very few people are. The sports are quite different. Body building does not require anywhere near the aerobic capacity cycling does and a cyclist has no real need to lug around all that upper body weight. So why bother?

Cycling does not eat away at muscle mass.

I suppose one could be a decent body builder and a decent cyclist but very few people are. The sports are quite different. Body building does not require anywhere near the aerobic capacity cycling does and a cyclist has no real need to lug around all that upper body weight. So why bother?

The legendary body builder Bill Pearl who took place in every body building event he ever entered raced bikes when he retired from body building. I guess he did well in some local races, but I don't remember him winning anything significant.

Guess I should read my posts before I send them.

Bill Pearl took FIRST place in every bodybuilding contest he entered and he entered some of the biggest - Mr. Olympia and Mr. Universe.

Wow, this's a good discussion. I'm diggin' it. I have found that at 19 years of age, 160 LBS, and lifting... that if I cycle and do lots of cardio... that my metabolism is SO HIGH that it *does* take away my muscle. I have to actually sit on my ass to keep my muscle.. believe it or not. I eat 6-8 meals a day, making about 2750-3000 calories a day. My GOAL is to bulk up, and get a bigger chest and arms. I've found that since I stopped cycling so heavily from summer, I have easily put on the muscle. In the summer when I'm biking like crazy, I drop down to 140-145 LBS in no-time flat, I lose all my muscle (cept legs ;)), and get REALLY skinny.

To balance this out, I began supplementing. I take whey-protein shakes 3 times a day, as well as try to eat "clean". (NO fast food, NO pop, lots of veggies, peanut butter, fruits, nuts, salads, fish, chicken, potatoes, etc). I've put on a little bit of fat since my weight-training has started, but just as quick as I gain it, my muscle burns it right back off. I must say that with my weight-lifting since August of this year, I have put on 20 lbs of muscle, look & feel better, and can EXPLODE on my bike. I can "sprint" on my bike a helluva lot faster and harder than I used to, even just this year.

As a whole it's a "balance" and it certainly depends on your goals, or what you want. For me, I have to watch my amount of cardio. For heavier set people, the more cardio the better. Genetics, BMI, and body-type have a LOT to do with it too.

Hope that helps some-what.

-Matt

bighit, thats exactly how i am! Ive gotten bone skinny over the summer, and am starting to look a little more normal now that i dont ride as often (having a busted bike helps too). Im eating like crazy, and am gaining practically nothing.. which i guess is a good thing?

bighit, thats exactly how i am! Ive gotten bone skinny over the summer, and am starting to look a little more normal now that i dont ride as often (having a busted bike helps too). Im eating like crazy, and am gaining practically nothing.. which i guess is a good thing?

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm definitely sick of being "small."
To give you an idea of my transformation... in July this year.. I was approx 140LBs. I'm 5' 10".
I now weigh right under 170LB's, and have only put on marginal fat. I'm trying to get BEEGER :eek:
For me it's definitely a struggle to gain mass, as it used to be the exact opposite for me. I've found that if I add just 45 minutes more a WEEK of cardio.. that I drop muscle mass. I try to lift heavy, with fewer reps, and then come home and slam down a protein shake, a scoop of peanut butter, and a banana. :)

Oh well, ride on... and to those who are trying to keep their mass... EAT MORE... LOTS MORE. ;)

Everyone keeps saying that cycling eats away at fat and muscle mass, but im wondering why? Shouldnt the use of your arms and legs produce more muscle? adn even if you dont use much upper body during rides, wouldnt it just not affect muscle?

Just wondering...

You can lose muscle if blood sugar goes too low.....the body then releases a hormone called cortisol which breaks down muscle into amino acids. These amino acids can be converted into glucose in the liver through a process called gluconeogenesis. Usually cortisol is not released until liver glycogen is depleted.

Everyone keeps saying that cycling eats away at fat and muscle mass, but im wondering why? Shouldnt the use of your arms and legs produce more muscle? adn even if you dont use much upper body during rides, wouldnt it just not affect muscle?

Just wondering...

Who's this everyone person you're talking about? Any exercise will tear down/damage muscle mass if the exercise is intense enough, but cycling "eating away" at fat and muscle...makes it sound like such a negative thing.

True, cycling will use fat as a substrate for energy production, so that could be considered "eating away" at the fat. At low intensities, your body will preferentially use fat as a fuel, but that use of fat will diminish more as you increase the intensity. With long, especially ultra-endurance, events, you will have a breakdown of muscle mass (i.e. protein contributing to energy production) due to damage and fuel utilization.

The actual breaking down of muscle is good because as long as you're recovering properly, you will build and repair muscle...this is what makes you stronger, bigger, etc. But if you're only cycling, it's highly doubtful that you'll see an increase in muscle mass, or even a large loss in muscle mass due to damage or tearing down of muscle, because of the nature of the sport. To really produce more muscle, strength train in the gym.

I think people are forgetting something.
The human body stores fat in a number of ways.

One is what we normally think of, the subcutaneous fat. We can pinch it, and it's what generally pokes out and make us look flabby.

Another way the body stores fat is inside muscles.
This makes muscles look bigger, but also makes them softer.

Exercise promoting fat loss will eat away at that fat as well, making the muscles shrink visually, but the muscle mass doesn't necessarily decrease.
This is also part of the reason why muscle size is a poor indicator of strength.

Right on. Intramuscular triglyceride (fat) stores are very important because that's what the body uses at lower intensities. So exercise that promotes fat loss will use those intramuscular stores of fat, but the actual muscle mass most likely won't decrease.

If you don't take in enough calories to maintain the level of muscle, you will "eat muscle" since your body is seeking nourishment and energy. It's the old CAL in vs CAL out conundrum. Furthermore, if you don't train your arms/upper body for an increase in muscle mass, you will not increase muscle mass in your arms/upper body, obviously.

When I was heavily into weight lifting, I'd eat about 15,000 calories a day. I mean, I would have to eat and eat and eat -- a lot and often. I'd eat so much that my stomach was pretty much as big as it would go that it was bordering on uncomfortable. I knew when it was at that point, my muscles would grow and recover the best from whatever I could throw at them. Carborama -- dried fruits, grains, fruit, peanut butter, cereals, pasta & red sauce. I'd pretty much avoid fatty stuff since there's so much fat in food already. You'd be surprised how little protein you need, too. I was shooting for around 70% carb, 20% protein and 10% fat (since you can't avoid it). You still need fat, though, just not as much as is out there.

I mean you have the EAT. A LOT. You know those cafeteria trays? I would cover the whole tray two layers deep with food, then go back for more -- for one meal. All you can eat restos are your friend.
Now that I don't weightlift, I'm about 50lbs lighter and could stand to lose another 10-15 at my current muscle mass.

Scientific nerd rant:
I'd suggest a physiology course for anyone who is curious about the general behaviour of the human body for various stimuli. It's better than any training guide in my opinion since it gives you the basic concepts of what a body under stress will require or do (eg, blood sugar, muscle building, cardiovascular capacity, etc..). Once you have that, then the training guide will be even more helpful since you now the real reasons behind their suggestions.

Don't forget, pound for pound, muscle burns more calories at rest than fat does.

15 000 kcal a day just isn't sensible. I'm sure you gained muscle mass like crazy, but you must've put on a LOT of fat.
I know that some of the guys in the world's strongest man contests eat between 8000 and 10 000, and that's probably a bit too much even for them.

Eating moderately but frequently is better than eating large amounts a few times a day, if you take in the same amount of energy.

Nope, no fat whatsoever. I had very good definition. It was a matter of getting the right mix of calories and working out appropriately. 6 days/week in the gym lifting for 1.5 hours with no "BS breaks" in between sets or even exercises. I rotated 3-4 workouts of similar muscle groups to get it going quickly and effieciently.

Quite simply, muscle is "killed" (broken-down) when nutrients, in particular protein, is not available in sufficient amounts to become the bodies primary source for amino acids necessary to repair the damage incurred while bicycling.

So, to build muscle, one must first damage the muscle tissue in a controlled fashion (as is done through proper excercise and then follow-up with providing the body a sufficient source of protein (carb too) nutrition such that the body does not look to itself for the means to repair the damage.

How and when to supply the protein to your body can be a whole discussion in and of itself.

N.

I am a large 16 yr old mtn biker and i used to ride year round. the colder the day the more i would eat but when i rode i would eat a 3000 calorie breakfast and eat another 2700-4000 calories. i was above 310lbs and i dropped to 290 over 4 months and i still ate on average 6200 calories a day. then again i would get up and ride at 6:00 in the am and face the 15-49 below weather and when i left school the sun would be just setting so it all worked out

Quite simply, muscle is "killed" (broken-down) when nutrients, in particular protein, is not available in sufficient amounts to become the bodies primary source for amino acids necessary to repair the damage incurred while bicycling.

When protein is metabolized for energy, it is broken down into amino acids. The body will not switch to using protein as its primary energy source unless the exercise is intense and long enough to deplete the body of sufficient stores of carbohydrate (in the forms of muscle glycogen and blood glucose) and not sufficiently use fat as a substrate. If protein is used for energy during exercise, it will compromise up to around 8% at the most of total energy contribution, which is not a lot, and not pimary.


So, to build muscle, one must first damage the muscle tissue in a controlled fashion (as is done through proper excercise and then follow-up with providing the body a sufficient source of protein (carb too) nutrition such that the body does not look to itself for the means to repair the damage.

How and when to supply the protein to your body can be a whole discussion in and of itself.

N.


Right on.

Well put TRIRMK. My expertise lies in understanding how your body responds to insufficient and sufficient amounts and quality of protein. I for one, would not and do not advocate ANYONE looking to protein for energy although it does have the potential to be used as such.

It's primary use is in the construction and repair of cells. The human body is in a struggle between maintaining an Anabolic environment (Nitrogen rich) that supports growth and repair OR what I feel I am hearing so much of by looking at posts in this forum - a Catabolic environment, which occurs in the midst of depletion and is counter productive, results in lower metabolic rates, and noticeable frustration amongst the general population.

- N.

Most professional cyclists don't want alot of upper body mass, as it just adds more weight to hold them back.
Ah...Now I know why those riding shorts don't look near as good on me as they did on the model in the cataloge.

but most cyclists have tiny arms, and i thought it was because cycling eats away any muscle mass... Somebody here said that theres almost no point in trying to lift weights and cycle, since its almost a waste?
Hi Kelly,
If you will workout on some specific part only you will notice that part muscular and as legs are involves on cycling mos so you will notice cyclist have great muscular body.

the loss of muscle mass in bicycling is illusory, IMO. bicyclists, and especially pro bicyclists, have minimum body fat, most of us don't.

when we lose fat, usually the first to go is sub-cutaneous fat., the fat between the skin and the muscle. you know, that stuff that is often called flab. but as we lose more weight we begin to lose fat that is stored above the kidneys and in the liver, then inter/intra muscular fat. it, for the most part, doesn't look flabby, but does increase the apparent size of our muscles. when we start losing that, and pro road cyclists don't have much, our muscles begin to get smaller, but as someone has mentioned, a test of strength will show that the smaller size does not indicate less strength.

You guys realize this is an 8 yr old zombie thread.

Unless you're < 6% body fat, you're not using your muscles for fuel. Also, fat does not "turn into muscle." You burn the fat and grow the muscles.

You guys realize this is an 8 yr old zombie thread.

no i didn't. i just read the last post. :lol: sadly, i'm still nursing scars from the last time this happened! not to mention that my post was redundant.

the easiest answer is....

When we ride we all burn a ton of calories! the biggest problem is muscle loss is due to not eating enough after rides so that you dont end the day in with a negative calorie intake. Ive calculated based on my everyday activities on how much I need to eat per day and broke that in how much consists of carbs, protein and fats. I do the gym 3 days a week and try to ride 2 to 3 days a week (wish I could ride to work everyday but not possible since I need to wear a suit everyday) On gym days I shoot for around 2200 calories while on bike days I may jump that up to 3500 depending on how long and hard I ride. If you end in the negative for calories then your body goes into survival mode and will start to eat away muscle and thats how when you lose your arms and chest.

15 000 kcal a day just isn't sensible. I'm sure you gained muscle mass like crazy, but you must've put on a LOT of fat.
I know that some of the guys in the world's strongest man contests eat between 8000 and 10 000, and that's probably a bit too much even for them.

Eating moderately but frequently is better than eating large amounts a few times a day, if you take in the same amount of energy.


im with you on this... There is a difference between being HUGE and cut. most guys that want to get bigger tend to go on a "bulking phase" where we up our daily calorie intake to anywhere from 800 to and extra 3 thousand calories a day. Then whe you hit your desired weight you start "cutting" by dropping a few hundred calories at a time. I laugh at the guys at the gym that talk about how huge they are but they have this huge gut because they eat so much and do zero cardio.

As an example Manny Pacquiao puts in 6000 a day and Michael Phelps does about 10k a day

Nope, no fat whatsoever. I had very good definition. It was a matter of getting the right mix of calories and working out appropriately. 6 days/week in the gym lifting for 1.5 hours with no "BS breaks" in between sets or even exercises. I rotated 3-4 workouts of similar muscle groups to get it going quickly and effieciently.



Working out 6 days a week does nothing for you. The only way your muscles getting bigger is by rest. 3-4 days a week at the gym is plenty

Hi can i just ask a Question about damage to the muscle i have been Diabetic for many years and started cycling recently to help with circulation and because of this i have started off with a E/bike but intend to progress to a normal none E/bike but i would really like to know is when i pedal and the muscle pain in my legs begin, should i stop and rest or try to keep going or will this cause muscle damage .

Hi can i just ask a Question about damage to the muscle i have been Diabetic for many years and started cycling recently to help with circulation and because of this i have started off with a E/bike but intend to progress to a normal none E/bike but i would really like to know is when i pedal and the muscle pain in my legs begin, should i stop and rest or try to keep going or will this cause muscle damage .

Is the pain you are feeling just soreness from the muscles not used to being worked? It's not unusual for new riders to have muscle stiffness and soreness when they are trying to get into shape.

Hi can i just ask a Question about damage to the muscle i have been Diabetic for many years and started cycling recently to help with circulation and because of this i have started off with a E/bike but intend to progress to a normal none E/bike but i would really like to know is when i pedal and the muscle pain in my legs begin, should i stop and rest or try to keep going or will this cause muscle damage .I don't know what type of pain you are having, but part of the process of increasing fitness is the repeated process of breaking down muscles and then having them rebuild stronger as they recover.

In your case if you have existing issues with circulation in your legs you might want to consult a doctor. Also you could try contacting someone from Team Type I, a diabetic racing team. They have some reasonable info on their website: http://www.teamtype1.org/

Cycling won't eat away muscle mass unless you are running a caloric deficit that requires your body to use lean tissue for fuel. I came from a heavy resistance training background and when I began doing a lot of cycling I did lose muscle size, especially in the upper body, but not due to increased cycling, but rather because of decreased resistance training(weight lifting). My thighs and calves are actually as big or bigger and better defined than when I was doing a lot of weight work. Your body adapts to the demands you put on it. I know quite a few athletes who do both cardiovascular and heavy resistance training and carry plenty of both upper and lower body mass.

Hypertrophy and atrophy is the simplest answer. When you use certain muscles they get bigger (legs and biking), when you dont use certain muscles they get smaller (arms, very little use while biking)

Chris Carmichael says:

It’s important to realize that you burn carbohydrates, protein, and fat simultaneously whenever you exercise, regardless of the intensity
http://www.cbass.com/Carbs_Athletes.htm

Also see:
DOES DOING AEROBIC EXERCISE BURN MUSCLE?
http://www.livestrong.com/article/398369-does-doing-aerobic-exercise-burn-muscle/

One loses protein if one does not replace what one burns. Simple as that. My long ride drink mix is 15% whey protein for that reason. I have protein in my breakfast before a ride and about 20% protein in my recovery drink and following recovery meal. My arm and thigh measurements change very little during the season, maybe 1/2" at the most.