Fifty Plus (50+) - BUSTED! Lance Armstrong cheated and now us old guys don't look so feeble

Heads and Olympic gold medals are rolling. Now we shouldn't feel so bad in comparison. They cheated and us old folks just keep on playing by the rules...

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/05/20/teammate-accuses-lance-armstrong-doping/



:p

Hamilton was busted not Armstrong. Now, whether or not Lance did APO is still in question I guess although the article says he was tested and never failed a test.
I don't see how you can say Armstrong was busted.

Here we go again.:popcorn

Hamilton is writing a book and needs publicity. That's all. How you get Armstrong is busted and us old guys play by the rules doesn't connect

Had 500 drug tests and Nothing ever found.

I am not a Lance fan but I think there is good evidence to say that he was not taking a detectable drug all the time he was racing. I put the detectable bit in because if there no test for any drug- Then it would not have been on the banned substance list. He did not even get caught in the trap of putting two "Legal" substances together that reacted to make something else that was illegal.

I think it is about time that the allegations are dropped before they find out that in 1999 he took a sleeping pill that had something in it that is now illegal And declare that one of the finest athletes we have had was a cheat. And I repeat- I am not a Lance fan.

I am a Lance fan. I don't understand why it is so important for these known cheaters to try to bring down the greatest American cyclist. You guys dopped and denied it and in some cases took money from the public to pay for your defense. To bring allegations against someone else whether true or untrue is sad.

Fox News. :crash: Enough said.

Fox News. :crash: Enough said.

Actually it will be a segment on 60 Minutes this Sunday

Eh, he probably doped. Thing is, so did everyone else, so it was pretty much a level playing field and that means that he (while cheating) beat all the other cheaters 7 times. Don't particularly like the guy and don't think that cheating is right, but I figure it all evens out to him being a better cyclist. Just like with baseball, everyone did it, let's get over it and move on with our lives.

I had a friend/associate who unfortunately befriended a druggie. The druggie got caught and ratted on my friend who never touched the stuff or sold it. The druggie got a reduced sentence since he added the autorities get another "criminal". My friend lost his job and spent years proving his innocence. The case against him was dismissed. It's an old game by those who get caught with the goods.

A lot of people apparently want Armstrong to have doped and seem to revel in these articles.

Armstrong has had many accusers and has taken some of them to court and has won everytime. He's even beat the French authorities and their lab in court as I remember.

Me, I'm a fan and he's innocent until proven otherwise.

Al

After I read Lance's book I became not a fan but he has been accused before and passed whatever tests he had to pass numerous times so this guy Hamilton is probably trying to get some money and publicity. If it is slander then Lance should be able to sue him without any problems

Isn't there like a Lance Armstrong forum? I'm sure I've seen it. Not a fan, not not a fan. But a long time ago Occam of Razor postulated that the simplest explanation is likely the valid one. The simplest explanation as to how someone who is arguably merely human albeit a superbly fit human, could consistently win against known dopers. Time and time and time again... ... is that Lance was also doping. No other theory is valid except the theory that Lance is in fact not completely human but is part Vulcan.

H

you have to be kidding me to not know that lanced doped.he doped

I am not ready to believe Hamilton or Landis. Both lied too long. That does not mean I believe LA did not dope. I hope he didn't, but would not be suprised if he did.

One thing to ponder.....I recall Landis leading LA up mountain stages with US Postal. Even if LA was clean, did the fact that some key members of his team did dope help him win?

Just remember that everyone who gets caught in a doping test has passed many such tests while doping. There is a fine art to hiding the presence of doping from the tests. Not having tested positive means much in a court of law, but it does not really answer the "what really happened?" question.

Having all these accusers does not prove that LA doped, but never having tested positive does not prove that he didn't. The fact that his accusers lied about doping when they were caught does not prove that they are lying when they later confess. The truth is hard to know and is clouded by what we want to believe.

I have been a Lance fan since he first turned pro and long before his bout with cancer and his TdF victories. As a cancer survivor I was inspired by his victory over cancer, his success afterwards and the important work he has done to help people battling cancer. I don't know if he doped or not. I would like to think that he didn't, but I'm not betting on it.

One thing to ponder.....I recall Landis leading LA up mountain stages with US Postal. Even if LA was clean, did the fact that some key members of his team did dope help him win?
Good point. In track and field, if one member of your relay is on the juice, you all lose your medals. I wonder if a one for all punishment scheme would cause peer pressure into keeping the sport cleaner.

I've got to confess that I don't see how this is news, regardless of it being on Fox or 60 minutes. To me news is something that has an impact on my life. The tsunami in Japan? Yep, news. Prices of somethings will go up and some part/products I purchase could become scarce. Flooding on the Mississippi? Yep, news. I have family and friends that live along the river. Lance, Floyd, Tyler, Alberto possibly doping? Nope, not news. Sick entertainment? Probably closer to this than news. I know some will argue that it is news, because if he did it, they were mislead in terms of donations to the cause he has championed so very well. I think that would be a somewhat hollow claim. I would hope it was the cause that merits the gift, not Lance.

But, as BD, said, "Here we go again." :popcorn

YAWN !

I'm thinking LA is probably hoping Rapture Day really happens so all these do-gooders will finally leave him alone !.

SB

Dopped or not, I don't really care. What I do care about is that he has raised the visibility of professional cycling within the general public. Because of his exploits, more people are now riding, and that can only be a good thing.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/cbs-news-reports-hincapie-testified-that-he-and-armstrong-supplied-each-other-with-epo-testosterone_174866

It's all over now, baby blue.

hincapie sounds like a classy dude.

As I said in the last thread that came up about this,
Lance who?

hincapie sounds like a classy dude.

So if he lied to a federal grand jury, he would still have his class?:twitchy:
:roflmao2:

Is it possible to succeed in bicycle racing without cheating?

This is the first time I've heard George make accusations. I think George is the most credible wittness thus far. I think it's a case of "you can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but . . ."

I'd place the probability at 97% that the grand jury charges Lance.

"George Hincapie, a longtime member of Lance Armstrong's inner circle, also told federal authorities he saw the seven-time Tour de France winner use performance-enhancing drugs, according to another segment of the "60 Minutes" report that aired Friday night on the "CBS Evening News."

Is it possible to succeed in bicycle racing without cheating?

This was never the question. It's only a weak excuse for cheating.

It is a question. Perhaps not the one you want to answer, but it's the question I've asked.

Dopped or not, I don't really care. What I do care about is that he has raised the visibility of professional cycling within the general public. Because of his exploits, more people are now riding, and that can only be a good thing.

Thats a good point

Just remember that everyone who gets caught in a doping test has passed many such tests while doping. There is a fine art to hiding the presence of doping from the tests. Not having tested positive means much in a court of law, but it does not really answer the "what really happened?" question.

Having all these accusers does not prove that LA doped, but never having tested positive does not prove that he didn't. The fact that his accusers lied about doping when they were caught does not prove that they are lying when they later confess. The truth is hard to know and is clouded by what we want to believe.

I have been a Lance fan since he first turned pro and long before his bout with cancer and his TdF victories. As a cancer survivor I was inspired by his victory over cancer, his success afterwards and the important work he has done to help people battling cancer. I don't know if he doped or not. I would like to think that he didn't, but I'm not betting on it.

Bluesdawg, I have always believed Lance, for one simple reason, he's a cancer survivor. I can't believe after battling and overcoming cancer the way he did, that he would ever put anything in his body that possibly cause it to come back. As a cancer survivor does that make sense to you? Thanks and congratulations!

[QUOTE=Lightingguy;12671233]YAWN !

I'm thinking LA is probably hoping Rapture Day really happens so all these do-gooders will finally leave him alone !.

:lol: and topical too:thumb:

Actually it will be a segment on 60 Minutes this Sunday

oh.that's better.....lol.

Bluesdawg, I have always believed Lance, for one simple reason, he's a cancer survivor. I can't believe after battling and overcoming cancer the way he did, that he would ever put anything in his body that possibly cause it to come back. As a cancer survivor does that make sense to you? Thanks and congratulations!

It makes sense that you would want to believe it to be that way. I think there is a tendency to want to bestow sainthood on cancer survivors. Battling cancer changes people, but they are still people - with the same strengths and weaknesses as anyone.

Hamilton is writing a book and needs publicity. That's all. How you get Armstrong is busted and us old guys play by the rules doesn't connect

Reminiscent of Jose Canseco.

If he did, it was not detected. I don't care if he did, there's not another cyclist in the world that could've come back from what he did & win the TDF & the powers that be don't like that. IAMALF

George Hincapie jumps in the fray:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/05/news/cbs-news-reports-hincapie-testified-that-he-and-armstrong-supplied-each-other-with-epo-testosterone_174866

This is a good documentary on drugs in sports.

Bigger,Faster,Stronger*
The side effects of being American

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkL1T-CZPfs

This is a good documentary on drugs in sports.

Bigger,Faster,Stronger*
The side effects of being American

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkL1T-CZPfs

I rented that about a year ago.
OUTSTANDING!
It was refreshing seeing a calm, objective analysis without the hysteria.

It makes sense that you would want to believe it to be that way. I think there is a tendency to want to bestow sainthood on cancer survivors. Battling cancer changes people, but they are still people - with the same strengths and weaknesses as anyone.
Thanks for responding. What I meant was, after the h*ll he went through to beat cancer, I wouldn't think he'd ever put anything in his body that might cause him to get cancer again. I'm just thinking plain self preservation, would be why he wouldn't risk PEDs.

Thanks for responding. What I meant was, after the h*ll he went through to beat cancer, I wouldn't think he'd ever put anything in his body that might cause him to get cancer again. I'm just thinking plain self preservation, would be why he wouldn't risk PEDs.

I see that line of reasoning a lot. But one of the first things you learn after surviving cancer is that your chances of getting it again are higher than the general population. I think you could just as easily make the argument that one might calculate he had less to lose by going for success by any means necessary. I am not making that argument. I just think that being a cancer survivor can't be considered a reason why one would or would not take risks in pursuing a goal.

Thanks for responding. What I meant was, after the h*ll he went through to beat cancer, I wouldn't think he'd ever put anything in his body that might cause him to get cancer again. I'm just thinking plain self preservation, would be why he wouldn't risk PEDs.

There is no evidence of the cancer being caused by drug use.
There is plenty of evidence that a cyclist cannot be competitive w/o drug use.

Everything is he said/she said. Like with anyone successful people are out to get you. It's a shame that happens.

There is no evidence of the cancer being caused by drug use.
There is plenty of evidence that a cyclist cannot be competitive w/o drug use.
I didn't think his cancer was caused by drug use. I just thought that after having cancer he wouldn't want to take the chance of enhancing his changes of getting it again by taking PEDs. BlueDawg explained why that might not be so.
I totally agree with your second statement.
Dang.

Fox News. :crash: Enough said.

ROTFLMFAO - You will believe it if it's on CBS, but not on FOX??? Wasn't it CBS' Dan Rather that got caught fabricating a huge 'news story' about George Bush's military record?

ROTFLMFAO!!!

;)

Lance Armstrong: the endgame begins.




http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/lance-armstrong-the-endgame-begins/

For all you who want to say what "George Said", please try to keep up. "Related: George Hincapie via Twitter (http://twitter.com/ghincapie/status/71734167322374145) – “I can confirm to you I never spoke with “60 Minutes.” I have no idea where they got their information
Don't say George said based on what 60 minutes said George said. I think GH should sue 60 min. What a joke of journalism 60 mins is. Should be banned from TV by FTC or rightly named National Enguirer. What a bunch of idiots.

I am new to the sport and the only reason i know what road bike riding is because of Lance Armstrong! If he was not the best we would not even be hearing about this, and I for one wish all these people trying to make a name for them selves would do it on there own merit. Look maybe he did use it but where is the proof. If they could not find it in all those test let it be what good would it do for the sport except to encourage it's use! I promis you with all the stuff that is banned none of us would test clean!!!!

For all you who want to say what "George Said", please try to keep up. "Related: George Hincapie via Twitter (http://twitter.com/ghincapie/status/71734167322374145) – “I can confirm to you I never spoke with “60 Minutes.” I have no idea where they got their information
Don't say George said based on what 60 minutes said George said. I think GH should sue 60 min. What a joke of journalism 60 mins is. Should be banned from TV by FTC or rightly named National Enguirer. What a bunch of idiots.

So it isn't possible to learn what someone said to a grand jury, unless you get it directly from the person testifying.
I did not know that.

So it isn't possible to learn what someone said to a grand jury, unless you get it directly from the person testifying.
I did not know that.

Grand jury testimony is sealed. If they got it, they obtained it illegally.

ROTFLMFAO - You will believe it if it's on CBS, but not on FOX??? Wasn't it CBS' Dan Rather that got caught fabricating a huge 'news story' about George Bush's military record?

ROTFLMFAO!!!

;)

http://mediamythbusters.com/index.php?title=Rathergate#Summary

"Rathergate is the scandal surrounding the 60 Minutes II story aired on CBS in 2004 about George W. Bush's National Guard service. Memos providing the basis for many of the claims in the report were supposedly created in 1973 and found in the files of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian. Bloggers and blog readers investigated the suspicious looking documents which were made available to the public on the CBS website and found them to almost certainly be poor forgeries created on a modern era word processor. Four CBS employees lost their jobs over the report. Dan Rather famously defended the report, claiming the memos might be "fake, but accurate" and later went into early retirement."

Reminiscent of Jose Canseco.

Love him, hate him, put him in a league w/t Anti-Christ and every word in his book is still true. But, that's a whole other thread.

I tend to go w/t Graeme Obree quote from Wiki that says, "99% of riders a/t elite level take EPO or a similar drug. Not particularly to dope themselves but to be at the same level with others."

W/testosterone there are levels both low and high. As long as one falls between those limits one can be using a supplement like Androgel and still not test out of the norm. FL's mistake was that he stupidly took a mega shot, tested way high and was subsequently stripped. Because LA never failed a test doesn't mean he wasn't using a PED such as Androgel. It simply means he never tested outside of standardized limits. That being said even a high level of testosterone within normal boundries would give him no competitive advantage.

And HGH use is doubtful as well. His extremities have remained the same size. Anyone who's followed the BB story would know of the substantial increase in foot and head sizes he's incurred. So, whether LA used or didn't use is immaterial. He passed every test at every level according to rules set down by others than himself. The governing bodies have only themselves to blame for not making their procedures lock-tight if indeed he was guilty.