General Cycling Discussion - Why is bicycling so eurocentric?

My wife and I have been watching the Giro and the Tour of California this week. She asked me why there aren't more African-Americans, Asians, etc. in the sport -- in other words, why it is so eurocentric.

I really didn't have a good answer. I know that the sport started in Europe, but it seems like now it would have much more representation from other parts of the world besides the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, and a few countries in Latin America. I can see that economics must be a part of it, just like golf. After all, basketball, football, baseball, and track just require a couple of hundred dollars at most to get started, while bicycling and golf would probably set you back a couple of thousand dollars. But there's got to be more to it than that.

I see some minorities in the club where I ride, but hardly representative of the city as a whole.

Curious about what other people think.

Cycling is expensive. Instead of asking why there aren't more minorities, ask why there aren't more poor people. Look at the list of top cycling countries and a list of highest GDP countries. As Americans we are trained from a young age to look at the world through the lens of race, when most of the actual differences between people have to do with money and privilege.

I never thought of cycling as being eurocentric. I don't think it is.

Curious about what other people think.
I would consider professional bicycle racing as a tiny subset of bicycling and of insignificant interest to the vast majority of bicyclists including daily cyclists in Europe. About on the same level as the Ky Derby is to the general public. Once or twice a year it is in the news and then forgotten about except for the afficiandoes who make up a tiny slice of the population.

Show me the money....
Its much easier for a poor promising sportsman to make big bucks in mainstream sport where you have college scholarships. Work out the number of people who make a good living in the USA from football, basketball, maybe ice hockey then do the same for running, cycling and swimming.

In the UK, all the promising sportsmen are sucked up by our proper football (soccer) system who have talent scouts, youth programmes, football academies and juicy contracts for hundreds/thousands of players every year.

The exception that proves the rule is Columbia.

Bicycle racing i.e. professional cycling requires lots of money. But people in Asia cycle more than those in the US because they can't afford a car.

Chaco, Quite possibly the race using bicycles most often are asian, only they aren't on camera too often.

I like the KY Derby reference, but differently. What you see on the tube are hyper aerobic humans within a preferable size to power ratio body, a very small percentage of humans on the whole.

Perhaps the premier reason is interest, for some surely economics is also a factor.

Brad

I like the KY Derby reference, but differently. What you see on the tube are hyper aerobic humans within a preferable size to power ratio body, a very small percentage of humans on the whole.

Perhaps the premier reason is interest, for some surely economics is also a factor.
Brad
Brad,

Jockeys are a very special breed of athlete, some of whom are compensated quite well.202903

MTB racing used to be dominated by Americans (a couple of the REALLY big names were of Hispanic descent), then the Euros finally figured it out in the mid 90s.

If you want some Asian persuasion there's always Keirin racing. Doesn't get much airplay here, but neither does track racing of any sort.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFRahWnA4YM

Brad,

Jockeys are a very special breed of athlete, some of whom are compensated quite well.202903

Wow, that chick is short and that jockey is fat ;)

Asian men can't get as juiced as they will grow hair on parts of their body they are unaccustomed to it growing on. Ha Ha just kidding.

I don't know. In the US it's mostly that most people don't bike ride. I mean I see a lot of bikes, but that's like... yeah, 50 or 100 or 200 pedestrians per 1 bike, just 'cause I see 3 or 4 bikes a mile once or twice a week for a half hour on a sunny day... there's not a lot of bikes around, I'm just noticing when everyone comes out.

As for what other people think, the general consensus among people I've had to deal with growing up is that black people on bikes are all riding stolen bikes. No joke. This is the immediate assumption when most people I've met see a black person on a bike. I've tried pointing out that the population distribution of the city I'm in is skewed so much that there's not that many bikes to steal (there are more bicycles than white people in this city by like 200 times), but all I get is more racist comments.:bang:

So I would ignore what other people think, because growing up has taught me that other people are dumb.:deadhorse2:


Instead of asking why there aren't more minorities, ask why there aren't more poor people.

See? Immediate insinuation that the answer is "black people are all poor." QED.

Is there a corollary to Godwin's Law for this?


Bonus points: When I bought a bike, my dad's first 30 comments were 30 different ways to say I was going to get jumped by black people and have my bike stolen in the first week. Welcome to America, the never-ending race war. I hope we never forget that we're different; I just want everyone to figure out how very little those differences matter. :hug:

Issues of race are only significant when they involve a hot Asian chick... :D

And of course Bicycles are #61 on the list of Stuff That White People Like. (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/10/61-bicycles/)

My wife and I have been watching the Giro and the Tour of California this week. She asked me why there aren't more African-Americans, Asians, etc. in the sport -- in other words, why it is so eurocentric.
Why not visit Atlanta? You may change your mind.
---> http://www.maccattack.com/

As Americans we are trained from a young age to look at the world through the lens of race, when most of the actual differences between people have to do with money and privilege.

Please speak for yourself. I know many other Americans, in addition to myself where that is not true. Such stereotypes are the basis of racism and most other "isms"

Why not visit Atlanta? You may change your mind.
---> http://www.maccattack.com/

Now that was very encouraging!

cycling is huge in asian countries and in south america...but probably the "euro" peloton is more 'white'.

White people just don't like to be beaten by black people in anything so naturally they fix the game to exclude the athletically superior blacks or just abandon the sport alltogether once the athletically superior blacks can no longer be excluded. The practice was far more out in the open in the past when racial segregation was commonplace and legal, but these days it has to be undertaken covertly.

I just got done watching UCI MTB World Cup #2 and there was some Asian action towards the top of the ladies field.

#5 was Chinese
#25 was Japanese.

interesting, how does this work now?

And of course Bicycles are #61 on the list of Stuff That White People Like. (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/02/10/61-bicycles/)

Combined with the fact that most Americans are "The Wrong Kind of White People"....

Before there was Lance Armstrong, before there was Greg Lemond, there was Major Taylor. The first American cycling superstar was black.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_IEpww48tfcI/TB9sFRhODEI/AAAAAAAAAfw/bC7cOabvk6I/s1600/major+taylor.jpg

Your issue is with Television Coverage of Cycling by a US Television cable channel.

the perception is that no one rides bikes anywhere

if they are not being carried on your local ,TV provider?

You have to go to the other countrys to know what they cover on their TV stations.

Your issue is with Television Coverage of Cycling by a US Television cable channel.

the perception is that no one rides bikes anywhere

if they are not being carried on your local ,TV provider?

You have to go to the other countrys to know what they cover on their TV stations.

OK, I see I should have asked about bicycle racing, not just bicycling. That said, should I infer from your statement that other countries besides the ones we see in the TDF, GDI, TOC, etc. are producing lots of racers? Or should I infer that the other countries like biking -- just not the kind I was asking about? I could certainly understand that - similar to American football vs. football in the rest of the world, which we call soccer.

Have you ever seen Japanese track racing, it is huge! It is just not popular here in the states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keirin

You may also want to consider cultural differences as well. Although most asian countries dominate with public bike riding, historically it was frowned upon to be different or "competitive" amongst others in your own country. It wasn't until 10 yrs ago that this viewpoint has shifted i.e. Yao Ming, Ichiro Suzuki, etc.

One other advantage other regions have is weather. Australia, New Zealand, North America - all have temperant weathers with some months being realistic for competitive cycling. Try going to Southeast Asia and cycling competitively 9 months out of the year - unheard of.

Please speak for yourself. I know many other Americans, in addition to myself where that is not true. Such stereotypes are the basis of racism and most other "isms"

I don't think you quite understood. It's unfortunate, but American society is deeply and negatively saddled with racial issues. As I said, the average american thinks in race when he should be thinking about economic class. You seem to disagree with me, but I'm advocating that people ought to not take racist or racial viewpoints, and instead be more concerned with class consciousness. What part of that do you disagree with?

Why not visit Atlanta? You may change your mind.
---> http://www.maccattack.com/

Interesting. I was an SBL member when I lived in Atlanta from '79-'86 and wasn't aware of the MACC. No Atlanta Bicycle Coalition then, either.

Have you ever seen Japanese track racing, it is huge! It is just not popular here in the states. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keirin


+1 Track racing is big in Japan. Not your euro stuff but Keirin.

This has turned out to be a very interesting discussion, and I've learned quite a bit from it. I had no clue about Japanese track racing, or about the bike club in Atlanta, or about Major Taylor.

Thanks to everyone for their insightful comments.

You may also want to consider cultural differences as well. Although most asian countries dominate with public bike riding, historically it was frowned upon to be different or "competitive" amongst others in your own country. It wasn't until 10 yrs ago that this viewpoint has shifted i.e. Yao Ming, Ichiro Suzuki, etc.

One other advantage other regions have is weather. Australia, New Zealand, North America - all have temperant weathers with some months being realistic for competitive cycling. Try going to Southeast Asia and cycling competitively 9 months out of the year - unheard of.

Putting those together makes a lot of sense. I was going to say it was simply a cultural thing, but climates play a bigger role in civilizations than most people ever realize.

There's betting windows at the Keirin tracks in Japan.

I'd rather have entire industries devoted to the manufacture, assembly and distribution of bicycles, and a population that uses bicycles, than have a handful of racers who work for corporate sponsors and themselves.

China, Taiwan, and to a lesser extent now, Japan win hands down.

Where did you learn this little jewel,Fox news?

Actually,you shouldn't be thinking of race or class.They're just humans,like the rest of us,whether they have money or not.Black,white,yellow,brown,plaid...it doesn't matter,were all in this together,like it or not.

Actually,you shouldn't be thinking of race or class.They're just humans,like the rest of us,whether they have money or not.Black,white,yellow,brown,plaid...it doesn't matter,were all in this together,like it or not.
Actually, I think it's important to talk about these things. Yes, everyone is human. But some humans are seem to be excluded from activities, jobs, sports, etc...and if we believe in equality we need to face the facts. The OP asked the question because we aren't always "in it together". Whether that is deliberate or not.

There are probably many factors to this. Think of sports where poorer people of all races grow up and compete professionally or at the olympics. Track. Football. I think that one reason might be that these are things people do in public school, so it's accessible to everyone.
Bike racing, rowing, golfing, not everyone has access to these things. Not everyone is around people who do these things.

I think it can start as a spin off of race/class division. Cost has a lot to do with it. Then it's a cultural cycle where people don't do it because people don't do it.
There are inequalities that aren't deliberate, that isn't the result of KKK people excluding one group.

It's an interesting discussion and just seems to get more complicated the more you talk about it.

Then it's a cultural cycle where people don't do it because people don't do it.

There are a lot more basketball courts than velodromes in the 'hood, for example.

Actually, I think it's important to talk about these things. Yes, everyone is human. But some humans are seem to be excluded from activities, jobs, sports, etc...and if we believe in equality we need to face the facts. The OP asked the question because we aren't always "in it together". Whether that is deliberate or not.

There are probably many factors to this. Think of sports where poorer people of all races grow up and compete professionally or at the olympics. Track. Football. I think that one reason might be that these are things people do in public school, so it's accessible to everyone.
Bike racing, rowing, golfing, not everyone has access to these things. Not everyone is around people who do these things.

I think it can start as a spin off of race/class division. Cost has a lot to do with it. Then it's a cultural cycle where people don't do it because people don't do it.
There are inequalities that aren't deliberate, that isn't the result of KKK people excluding one group.

It's an interesting discussion and just seems to get more complicated the more you talk about it.

My feelings exactly. And not thinking about race or class is ridiculous. Are we supposed to bury our heads in the sand because these aren't "nice" things to talk about and we should all pretend that everyone is equal? Striving for equality is one thing, and a noble goal; pretending that there is no inequality is just ignorant.

I'll be the first to admit I'm ignorant about bicycling around the world. I've only been cycling for 7 or 8 years, and I never watched a bike race until last year. I asked the question in hopes of diminishing my ignorance, and as I wrote earlier, I've learned some things about cycling in the U.S. and around the world that I didn't know and never would know just from looking at the Giro, TOC or TDF on TV.

It's not just cycling, it's other sports...last year these kids all drowned in a lake because they couldn't swim. We figure every american kid knows how to swim....but all these kids were black. Swimming hasn't been as big a part of the black experience, why? because for many generations, black kids weren't allowed at public pools or even some beaches (this incident took place in Louisiana). Or they didn't get to go to summer camps, etc. We can't just pretend that the divisions that were created just go away, the effects continue on.