Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - clipless rules

I decided to go with time atac roc's and some mavic mtb shoes. I love it so far, much better power transfer and much more comfy than my shoes in cages. I would recommend them to anyone who is thinking about switching. I'm gonna keep with brakeless unless I run into any problems

Haha I agree with you, clipless is so much better than toeclips/straps. I have ridden clipless for almost a year now (Time ATAC XS/Shimano road shoes) and never plan on going back. As for skidding, I have never clipped out accidentally.

i have probably ridden more clipless than either of you. if you're riding down large hills and skidding with a lot of force, it's not "if you clip out," it's when you clip out.

Haha I agree with you, clipless is so much better than toeclips/straps. I have ridden clipless for almost a year now (Time ATAC XS/Shimano road shoes) and never plan on going back. As for skidding, I have never clipped out accidentally.

+1 I'm loving my cheapo Shimano MTB shoes. :thumb: Aside from the crazy small pedal area, with no brakes and a crappy looking bike, its a bit more confusing and undesirable to steal for the average bike thief looking for a easy ride across town.

Science does too.


And speedplay zeros FTW BTW.

release all tension all the way up, on SPD and SPD-SL, and i can still get either to "accidentally" de-clip.

but thankfully, i got a bwake!

With road pedal systems, unless you are ridiculously strong, accidental unclips are either due to tension being too low on the pedal or poor pedaling form. It's virtually impossible to unclip by pulling on a Speedplay Zero pedal. Your knee will come apart first. Same for Shimano SPD-R.

MTB pedals like Time ATAC and cranks brothers that use two bars to grab the cleat aren't hard to pull straight out of...especially with worn cleats.

For whatever reason, it seems a lot of people have a strange tendency to twist their feet around on the pedals, especially while skidding. As carleton suggests, poor form.

i have probably ridden more clipless than either of you. if you're riding down large hills and skidding with a lot of force, it's not "if you clip out," it's when you clip out.
I live at the top of a category 3 hill and I have never once clipped out. In fact, I have never clipped out and I have been riding clipless for a few years (don't remember how long, maybe 2004). I ride time atac xs, but have used eggbeaters, look keo, and shimano.

For whatever reason, it seems a lot of people have a strange tendency to twist their feet around on the pedals, especially while skidding. As carleton suggests, poor form.

I have this problem, but I've been working on it. I twist my feet because I don't move my body with the bike when I whip the skid, so when the bike moves sideways, I'm still facing forward. It's a bad habit. For me, it helps to think moving 'with the bike.'

I don't understand why atacs or eggbeaters should unclip under tension if properly maintained; the mechanism tightens as you pull up. That obviously can't account for worn cleats or twisting the foot (also problems w/ road pedals as already mentioned), but I've ridden both systems and only encountered problems when I allowed my cleats to get terribly worn.

Regardless, I'll chime in with the obvious: use a fracking brake regardless of your retention system.
Also, my pet peeve: clips != cages.

I don't understand why atacs or eggbeaters should unclip under tension if properly maintained;...

http://www.yann-g.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/potd12_gallery__600x327.jpg

Lol. I get that track stars are beasts, but that wouldn't mean unclipping so much as breaking a self-tightening pedal design, no?

I do own an older pair of Aliums and I can pull my foot out if I try. I also own a new pair which have a lot more tension and I cannot pull my foot out. it makes my brain hurt

Lol. I get that track stars are beasts, but that wouldn't mean unclipping so much as breaking a self-tightening pedal design, no?

It may be designed as a self tightening system, but I can still pull out of ATACs. I've seen several normal-sized guys pull out of them. Plus, there is no way to adjust the tension. They are great for muddy situations, but they are not known for being inescapable.

If you are twisting your feet while pedaling, to such an extent that you are unclipping, then I would guess your saddle is too low.

My only concern with clipless is I hear the shoes are uncomfortable to walk in, leading me to use straps so I dont have to carry a spare set of shoes in my pack. The idea intrigues me though..

If you are twisting your feet while pedaling, to such an extent that you are unclipping, then I would guess your saddle is too low.

http://insidesfrealestate.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/huh.jpg

It may be designed as a self tightening system, but I can still pull out of ATACs. I've seen several normal-sized guys pull out of them. Plus, there is no way to adjust the tension. They are great for muddy situations, but they are not known for being inescapable.

You can adjust tension on the ATAC Roc models.

I don't disbelieve you, and agree on road retention, but I still can't picture how it is possible to pull out of ATACs if the cleats are fine and one is not unclipping - when pulling up, the force is being applied at 90 degrees to the direction the spring moves in. It's like trying to open a door by pulling the doorknob straight towards the hinges.

I rode Eggbeaters for a while, Fantastic for FG just a PITA for me because I never found a comfortable shoe that I could wear off the bike at work and I hate changing my shoes 3 times a day. I never unclipped while skidding in fact my only unintentional unclipping was because I bottomed out on a curb while weaving in and out of traffic though I never popped out on a corner

i have probably ridden more clipless than either of you.

someone wants a cookie

someone wants a cookie
http://www.cookiemadness.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/levain.jpg

I'm thinking of going and getting some pedals + shoes this weekend... first time, and I don't want Eggbeaters. ANy suggestions? I know Shimano, Look, and Speedplay all make them. What do you all use?

Unless you buy some used pedals, Shimano offers the cheapest starters with the M520.

if you guys skid with MTB/SPD, make sure to get the regular SPD cleats, not the "Multi-Direction-Release" cleats (usually denoted by an engraved "M"). fml so much difference, no wonder i couldnt skid with the M ones without popping out.
why didnt any of you tell me this earlier? =D

I used clipless for a few years but went back to toe clips. Only tipped over twice during those years but once resulted in a broken arm from not being able to unclip quick enough. Every time I ride I see at least one person fall over from being unable to clip in time. I'll never go back unless I go pro or something where I only have to unclip once....at the end of the race. Otherwise for me the advantages aren't enough to outweigh the problems.

Someone was trying to get you killed, Mucky

I used clipless for a few years but went back to toe clips. Only tipped over twice during those years but once resulted in a broken arm from not being able to unclip quick enough. Every time I ride I see at least one person fall over from being unable to clip in time. I'll never go back unless I go pro or something where I only have to unclip once....at the end of the race. Otherwise for me the advantages aren't enough to outweigh the problems.

These kids are playing in the face of DANGERRRRR:

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/giro-10.jpg

if you guys skid with MTB/SPD, make sure to get the regular SPD cleats, not the "Multi-Direction-Release" cleats (usually denoted by an engraved "M"). fml so much difference, no wonder i couldnt skid with the M ones without popping out.
why didnt any of you tell me this earlier? =D

+1 the regular cleats are black, the multi-directional-release aren't

I used clipless for a few years but went back to toe clips. Only tipped over twice during those years but once resulted in a broken arm from not being able to unclip quick enough. Every time I ride I see at least one person fall over from being unable to clip in time. I'll never go back unless I go pro or something where I only have to unclip once....at the end of the race. Otherwise for me the advantages aren't enough to outweigh the problems.

Does not compute. I can get out of my clipless pedals in a heartbeat; my clips, when secured to a point where they're useful, are a different story.

Does not compute. I can get out of my clipless pedals in a heartbeat; my clips, when secured to a point where they're useful, are a different story.

I always could too.....until that one time when you can't....then it's too late. Paralyzed arm and lotsa surgery.

I think this debate will go on for perpetuity. I use clipless, cranked down to the max on the road with the fixed-gear commuter. It's just easier when running winter shoes, etc. But I use clips and straps when racing, for a number of reasons, most of which have been laid out by carleton, but to add a few:

--Shoe upper flex
--breaking cleats under effort
--pulling cleat out of bottom of shoe

Speaking as one who has those last two, nothing good comes of that. But for most single-speed riding, clipless is just fine, though my vast preference is for a road-type pedal such as the Shimano Dura-Ace.

Grammar rules.

I always could too.....until that one time when you can't....then it's too late. Paralyzed arm and lotsa surgery.

Not to be argumentative or insensitive, but I still don't see how this makes clips any better. The vast majority of my spills have been in clips even though my miles are about equally mixed between clips and clipless. Fortunately, my worst spill only involved some lingering wrist pain that resolved in about a year -- sorry to hear yours sounds to have been a lot worse. But mine was indeed a slow-motion fall in clips that I'm fairly confident I could have saved on my atacs.

YMMV.

Not to be argumentative or insensitive, but I still don't see how this makes clips any better. The vast majority of my spills have been in clips even though my miles are about equally mixed between clips and clipless. Fortunately, my worst spill only involved some lingering wrist pain that resolved in about a year -- sorry to hear yours sounds to have been a lot worse. But mine was indeed a slow-motion fall in clips that I'm fairly confident I could have saved on my atacs.

YMMV.


Mine was on a mountain bike trail and involved a tree. I feel better with toe clips because it's pretty much impossible to fail unclipping in an emergency.

Mine was on a mountain bike trail and involved a tree. I feel better with toe clips because it's pretty much impossible to fail unclipping in an emergency.

I think your terminology is a bit mixed up here. You are not truly "clipped" into toe clips / straps unless you are using cage pedals and shoes with slotted cleats, and have pulled the straps tight to lock the cleat into the pedal. In such a case "unclipping" is far more involved, especially on a FG, than doing so with clipless pedals and shoes. If you are using regular shoes with toe clips and straps, then you are never truly "clipped" in, and can always pull your foot out if you pull your foot back hard enough. Unfortunately, this also limits your ability to climb out of the saddle or backpedal / skid. All but one of my FG / track bikes have clipless pedals, either road or mtb, and the one bike that does not has bmx platform pedals and wide soft straps w/o and clips for riding with soft soled shoes, and it is geared very low, since I can't pull back w/o my feet coming out. I use SPD clipless pedals on my mtb and cross bikes, where I have to frequently dismount and remount the bike, and getting into and out of the pedals is a no brainer, much much easier than with clips / straps, which I stopped using decades ago.

I used clipless for a few years but went back to toe clips. Only tipped over twice during those years but once resulted in a broken arm from not being able to unclip quick enough. Every time I ride I see at least one person fall over from being unable to clip in time. I'll never go back unless I go pro or something where I only have to unclip once....at the end of the race. Otherwise for me the advantages aren't enough to outweigh the problems.

Yeah, I'll admit I fell once or twice when I first started using clipless pedals. But once you learn how to use them they're so much better.

If you can easily pull your foot out of a toe strap/clip then they aren't tight enough to do much good. You're better off just getting some knobby BMX pedals rather than dealing with getting the pedal oriented correctly then jamming your foot in. Clipless pedals are so much easier. Place foot on pedal. *click* Want to unclip? Rotate foot. Done.

So I got my Shimano spd-sl pedals and shoes today. Practiced getting in and out a number of times before hitting the road. Went on a ride with a buddy and as soon as we hit a stop I unclip my foot and fall over to the other side still clipped in. What a lovely way to try clipless for the first time. I hope this doesnt happen anymore.

I'm pretty sure everyone will tip over at least once when the start using clipless pedals, I know I did.

My MTB shoesiez are supposed to come tomorrow. I should go find a grassy field to practice in.

I have been riding clipless for years and I fell while doing a track stand on a road bike. So yeah, you risk falling, but it isn't a big deal.

To the folks complaining about falling:

Didn't you fall when you first learned to ride a bike? Why get so upset about it now?

You have to give your body time to adjust to the new system.

Step 1: Put on clipless pedals
Step 2: Expect to be perfect at it

is just like

Step 1: Get my first bike (learning to ride)
Step 2: Expect to be perfect at it

or

Step 1: Buy my first skateboard
Step 2: Expect to be perfect at it

To the folks complaining about falling:

Didn't you fall when you first learned to ride a bike? Why get so upset about it now?

You have to give your body time to adjust to the new system.

Step 1: Put on clipless pedals
Step 2: Expect to be perfect at it

is just like

Step 1: Get my first bike (learning to ride)
Step 2: Expect to be perfect at it

or

Step 1: Buy my first skateboard
Step 2: Expect to be perfect at it

I've fallen after riding with them for years. I've seen people fall who have been riding for 20+ years. Saying it's a noob thing is to be in error. If you have stop suddenly or bail on a start before you have momentum, you risk trying to do a quick yank and failing to unclip and falling over.

I've got a set of cheap SPD-SL pedals, but no shoes yet.

I fell over with clips and straps and dealt with pain in my left wrist for three months, so clearly I'm either completely uncoordinated or it's possible to have exactly the same problems with clips and straps as it is with clipless.

I've fallen after riding with them for years. I've seen people fall who have been riding for 20+ years. Saying it's a noob thing is to be in error. If you have stop suddenly or bail on a start before you have momentum, you risk trying to do a quick yank and failing to unclip and falling over.

ok. I have seen the same thing done with clips/straps

I've been thinking of trying clipless pedals lately. I find straps and clips hard to get out of when I have them tightened enough to feel secure (and hard to get back into). I fell once while waiting for a light and have just barely made it out of the straps and clips many times, I always think I'm going to fall over. I need to plan my stops and wiggle my feet out ahead of time.

by the way, what would you guys recommend for a first pair of clipless pedals, shimano m520's or eggbeaters?

I think a lot of the problem stems out of what TT said, most of us use toe clips and straps in a very low key way so it is easier and maybe you will be able to get out and not fall over, but clipless is much more effective at transferring power. Everyone falls over and whatever the cause may be its life, clipless is just one way that people can easily see and blame so it gets picked on. Hell I took a turn way to fast coming out of my dorm this morning and fell pretty hard which was my fault for being stupid but if your going to ride a bike your going to get hurt sometimes and if its a result of not clipping out then deal with it. If you cant then go get a scooter or something. You will hurt yourself sooner or later so don't act like clipless is terrible and not worth cause a lot of people fall with it, if it was that bad then it would've been phased out by now.

It may be designed as a self tightening system, but I can still pull out of ATACs. I've seen several normal-sized guys pull out of them. Plus, there is no way to adjust the tension. They are great for muddy situations, but they are not known for being inescapable.

The ATACS XS have adjustable tension. hell I have a brused knee that says you cant get out of them too easy...

Every time I ride I see at least one person fall over from being unable to clip in time.

I have been riding for years and I have yet to see one person fall over because of clipless pedals. I have seen a couple fall that were using clips and straps because they couldn't loosen the straps up in time. Where are you riding, in the back yard of a retirement home or in the special olympic training vacility?

I have been riding for years and I have yet to see one person fall over because of clipless pedals. I have seen a couple fall that were using clips and straps because they couldn't loosen the straps up in time. Where are you riding, in the back yard of a retirement home or in the special olympic training vacility?

Typically, people don't fall because of the pedals they fall because of poor planning.