Classic & Vintage - What's the best way to learn to fix them up?

So I have my nice Superbe and a CCM on the way (which will have been totally overhauled and taken apart/put back together by a bike nut), but now that I've been badly bitten by the bug, I really want to learn to do stuff to my bike.

The thing is that I am too scared to do anything to my 'nice' bike. I tried adjusting the hub and failed and took it to the LBS because it was unsafe (kept threatening to slip into neutral). I have some brake pads and new tires on the way so I will attempt to put them on myself. Actually I think the tires will be kind of a drag because of all the fenders, lights, etc etc that I have to deal with!

But what's the best way to really, really learn? Buy/procure some rust bucket and take it apart and put it back together (I'd be too scared to ruin something that is 'good')? Dive in at the deep end and get a frame and put all the stuff (haha, technical terms, huh?) on it?

Thanks, and I'd like to say that this is really one of the most newbie-friendly online forums I've been on (and I've been on quite a few, including some natural living ones, which should be friendly but aren't).

I started on a 10 dollar schwinn continental..but I learn more with every bike. Maybe ask the bike nut friend to help, or find a co op in your area?

But what's the best way to really, really learn? Buy/procure some rust bucket and take it apart and put it back together (I'd be too scared to ruin something that is 'good')?

find some low end bikes and learn on those.. then resell them for a profit

"rust buckets" have unique problems like stuck posts and bolts though so they can be problematic even for experienced mechanics

I started on a 10 dollar schwinn continental..but I learn more with every bike. Maybe ask the bike nut friend to help, or find a co op in your area?

+1 for the $10 Schwinn and the co-op idea.

But what's the best way to really, really learn? Buy/procure some rust bucket and take it apart and put it back together (I'd be too scared to ruin something that is 'good')? Dive in at the deep end and get a frame and put all the stuff (haha, technical terms, huh?) on it?



^^ This. Several times over. Find a bike co-op around you, and you can learn from other folks how to do things right, with the proper tools.

I agree just buy a '80 fuji, raleigh, bianchi, univega that needs some TLC and just dive in. as JReade suggest if you have a friend and if you live near a C&Ver I am sure they will lend a hand too.

PPSSSTT; alot of them can be bribed with cheap ale LOL

Me,I brouse/ask on bike forum C&V

Took a couple classes offered thru a bike shop

Volunteeered at a co-op/community center

PPSSSTT; alot of them can be bribed with cheap ale LOL

I prefer pizza. :)

I prefer pizza. :)Really, pizza comes in six-packs?

The BEST way:
1-Get the clunker that most closely resembles what you will want to be working on.
2-Wash it, thoroughly. This gets you a good look at it.
3-Take a part off, clean it, put it back on. Do all the easily removable parts first.
4-Then take the bike down to parts that need special tools, and have someone show you, 2 or 3 times.
4-Clean each and every part. This is the Mr. Miyagi phase.
5-Look at the frame. Remind yourself of each part of the frame.
6-Put it back together.
7-Fix what is still not working
8-Ride it.
9-Fix what is still not working.

You'll know the bike, and gain a ton of knowledge. Use us for questions.
By the time you've done 2 or 3 bikes, even if you skip steps, you're on the way.

On your chosen bikes, the best way to "know" them is to see them stripped down to frame and parts.
When they grow back into a bike under your hands, you truly get to know the bike.
After a while, nothing that happens on the bike will be a mystery, because you'll know it that well.

find some low end bikes and learn on those.. then resell them for a profit

"rust buckets" have unique problems like stuck posts and bolts though so they can be problematic even for experienced mechanics

I recently picked up a $25 Diamondback Sorrento. It's a 20? year old low-end-but-still-decent-quality bike. It needed another $26 in parts. Tires, tubes, cables and brake pads are items that almost always need to be replaced. It will sell for about $125.00. Great way to learn how to work on bikes. My fix & flipping has needed my household a new set of couches, flat screen TV, clothes for the wife, and bike stuff for me. You will learn that there are no unsolvable problems, only uneconomical solutions.

I learned by reading Sheldon Brown (http://sheldonbrown.com/glossary.html), ParkTools (http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help), and the Mechanics forum here. I don't think you'll break anything on your bike that isn't easily replaceable. It's not like you'll snap your frame. The best advice I can give is what my father told me: 'never force anything.' Of course, he never experienced stuck seatposts or stems. But really, the worst thing you can do is cross-thread bolts or break them by over-tightening. On the other hand, you do want to make sure things such as brake pads, brake cable pinch bolts, and the brakes themselves are snugly fastened so as not to fall off mid-ride.

I wouldn't bother with another project bike, unless you really want one. Just work with what you have.

[QUOTE=RobbieTunes;12704822]Really, pizza comes in six-packs?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200806/20080605pizza_beer_500.jpg

Pick a problem, figure out how to fix it, move on to the next one. Pick the most pressing issue first. If you need to get someone to help you, that's fine, but watch what they do. Ask every question you can think of. If you don't get an answer you can understand, rephrase. Do not repeat. Once you've solved that problem, pick the next one, and start the process all over again.

Ditto on Sheldon's site. And Park's Blue Book can come in handy. Of course, it is filled with hints to buy their tools. :)

Searching craigslist free section for any yard sale leftovers can yield a few cadavers to dissect, without any fear of flushing money. Plus, you'll end up with a few good pieces for your spare parts bin, and even if the frame is rusted and cheap, the local recycling shop will still take it.

+1 +1 +1 on buying an old bike, tearing it apart, putting it back together.

Working on old bikes can be an exercise in patience. Be willing to tighten down a locknut eight or ten or a dozen times to find the 'sweet spot' on a hub adjustment. Be willing to wait a few days for penetrating oil to penetrate. Make friends with a propane torch, IMO a vastly underrated tool.

Ask questions. This is where the co-op comes in, and the better co-ops have 'Women Only' nights, so you can learn how you're doing it wrong without feeling like some man is telling you you're doing it wrong ;).

Be patient. Really, it's the most useful tool in your kit.

Wow! Thanks for all the amazing replies! I will read them very carefully once we've finished watching the hockey (!).

And Captain Blight - thank you for your PM - I'm not able to answer as I don't have enough posts to reply

+100 Find a decent $10 thrift store/garage sale bike. Do your best fixing and cleaning it up, sell it, and repeat. One of my first projects was a Giant MTB: Got it on a Saturday for $10 at a garage sale, cleaned it up, trued a wheel, sold it on Tuesday for $100. Then I bought a Schwinn Criss Cross at a garage sale for $10. Cleaned it up, replaced a couple of cables, sold it a week later for $125. One key to those early bikes is the only tools I needed were a spoke wrench, a cable cutter, and a bicycle multitool. Later I went kind of tool crazy, and now I tear bikes completely down to the frame, pretty much every time (takes a lot more tools and parts, time, space, and practice). These first couple of bikes funded some decent tools, plus the next few projects. By the six or seventh project, I was doing a lot more work on them, and doing a lot better job....

Avoid the rust buckets, they can have a lot of problems. I commonly deal with rusty bikes now, but not early on.

No co-ops in this area, so I made some early mistakes, and relied heavily on the Parks Tool site (still my favorite repair information source).

Wow! Thanks for all the amazing replies! I will read them very carefully once we've finished watching the hockey (!).

And Captain Blight - thank you for your PM - I'm not able to answer as I don't have enough posts to reply
A woman who works on bikes and watches hockey. Nothing further need be said....

... except that she seems to be happily married.


Dangitall.

A woman who works on bikes and watches hockey. Nothing further need be said....

I think "works" here is used extremely loosely

Patience for sure. Sometimes you just have to walk away from something if it's stuck or non cooperative lest you break it.
Sometimes it's helpful to yell up to, I mean ask, your SO, "hey, can you come down to the garage and hold this doohickie while I tighten it?" I don't own any third hand tools.

I don't own any third hand tools.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/725172-Cheap-and-effective-Third-hand-tool./page2

i got this 3rd hand tool for $3.. great for brakes

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3125/p1010551o.jpg

Ok. So I hit the yard sales this morning and bought a $10 bike. It's really a pretty awful thing, a Silver Arrow (a dept store brand?) and it looks to be early 80s or late 70s. Stamped dropouts, Shimano Tourney and Suntour Allegro components (these are the lowest end, right?). But it was $10. I sold a similar Raleigh yesterday for $40 and it was priced a bit low, I think, so I should be able to sell it around $50 once it's cleaned up.

I'll try and take some pics, but there is a small amount of suface rust on the seat post, needs new tyres. The worst thing is that there is some worse rust on the rims. I suppose I will try and clean it off and then see. Otherwise I might see if a bike guy I know has any spare wheelsets.

BTW, I do have one of those clamps, frantik, but why would you want to clamp the brakes like that?

+100 Find a decent $10 thrift store/garage sale bike. Do your best fixing and cleaning it up, sell it, and repeat. One of my first projects was a Giant MTB: Got it on a Saturday for $10 at a garage sale, cleaned it up, trued a wheel, sold it on Tuesday for $100. Then I bought a Schwinn Criss Cross at a garage sale for $10. Cleaned it up, replaced a couple of cables, sold it a week later for $125. One key to those early bikes is the only tools I needed were a spoke wrench, a cable cutter, and a bicycle multitool. Later I went kind of tool crazy, and now I tear bikes completely down to the frame, pretty much every time (takes a lot more tools and parts, time, space, and practice). These first couple of bikes funded some decent tools, plus the next few projects. By the six or seventh project, I was doing a lot more work on them, and doing a lot better job....

Avoid the rust buckets, they can have a lot of problems. I commonly deal with rusty bikes now, but not early on.

No co-ops in this area, so I made some early mistakes, and relied heavily on the Parks Tool site (still my favorite repair information source).

Ooops, I missed the "decent" part. I bought a crap $10 bike. Oh well :)

it makes it easy when you adjust the brakes.. you can clamp the brake very close to the rim and then tighten the cable, then remove the clamp and the pads are super close to the rim

you can learn a lot from a crap bike.. and you don't have to worry if you mess it up.

Excellent, 10 buck bike is an awesome place to start. First off, don't invest anymore money than necessary into a dept store bike. a lot of it will clean up with some effort and if you spend too much you'll never get the $$ out of it when you sell it. Pics would be great, but the first thing I like to do is to tackle the rust on the rims just to see some instant results. I like to use crumpled aluminum foil to take the rust off of steel rims. I also like to use #0000 fine steel wool because it's fairly cheap, HOWEVER it's easy to get too scrub happy with the steel wool and leave scratches. The aluminum is softer and nicer on the chrome rims. Most of all, take your time and enjoy the adventure.

Thanks! Where should I buy tires for it? Walmart/Canadian tire? Or should I ask my friend the LBS guy which are the absolute cheapest ones he can get?

And do I really need a work stand or can I just stand it upside down? And do I use the steel wool/foil to clean up the frame rust too (it's quite superficial)? Do I then have to seal it somehow?

IMO - check ebay for tires, tubes, and rim strips on a flip bike. Compare with local, since sometimes shipping negates a good price.

But don't ignore the LBS, especially on a keeper bike. Having a good relationship with the LBS is priceless.

Steel wool is OK for rust on chrome. ALWAYS use with a lubricant, such as WD-40. Brass wool is better. Oxylic acid is the best for items that can be removed and placed in a tub. But be very careful using OA on wheels - not only for the obvious reason of ruining the hubs, but depending on what material the nipples are made of, you can do more harm than good.

Regardless of what you do, be prepared to say goodbye to entire weekends. :)

The first rule of learning to tinker: "If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is." Don't be afraid to take things apart, but be aware that having done so, you might be stuck for days, weeks or months without a tool (or the knowledge" needed for reassembly and adjustment. Patience is key here -- most mistakes are bonehead ones due to "forcing" things. If you don't appreciate tools (and collecting them) for their own sakes, then don't get started; because you'll find that you need peculiar ones for certain work. Modern cameras (incl. phones) are invaluable for recording what things looked like together when you've taken them apart -- so use one constantly, just keep the grease off it! And of course the internet is a resource tailor-made for tinkerers. Sheldon Brown is the patron saint of bicycle DIY.

Find a LBS that is not intolerant or dismissive of people doing their own work; they can help a lot, and get you over the rough spots. They're not that hard to find, in my experience. I think the key is attitude -- be humble and focused, don't give them the impression that you're just an instant-gratification-type idiot who doesn't have any inkling of the vast amount of lore they have no appreciation of. Identify and interact with the person in the shop who's not a bull****ter, not the person who needs to turn every interaction into a larger sale -- it's pretty obvious after you've been there for 8 minutes. And if there's nobody there to help, move on; there are a lot of LBS's.

Aluminum foil and Windex or WD-40 will do an amazing job of cleaning off surface rust and grime from shiny bits.

Take it apart.

Put it back together.

Repeat ...

Lots of good advice here - I see from your blog that you are located somewhere in the SW Ontario area, so if you get stuck or need parts try Backpeddling in Guelph - they are an amazing shop with plenty of old and new bikes and parts, and very vintage friendly staff. They know the worth of their stuff though so don't go in expecting to find a $10 Superbe (Oh wait, you don't need one - you already have one practically NOS)!

They are also well connected in the Ontario vintage bike scene and might be able to point you to someone local you can talk to.

Mark

Aluminum foil and Windex or WD-40 will do an amazing job of cleaning off surface rust and grime from shiny bits.
+1 - I was amazed....

Mark

Assembly is reverse of dis-assembly

Easiest way to get lots of rust off of chrome rims: a bronze wire brush (cheap) on a good electric drill. Crude, but effective. Way less work than aluminum foil, and usually looks better.

thanks for all the advice! The kids are napping so I'm going to start with washing it (she dragged it out of the basement to show it to me) and then take to it with some foil (don't have any steel wool).

Luckily, I am friends with the owner of the LBS (his wife and I write the blog together), so I have a good source for advice. The other day he adjusted the IGH on my Superbe when I failed.

Hmmm....upon close inspection, I think this bike might be a dog. Slightly more rust than I had thought at some of the lugs (no bubbling, though, just discolouration). I am wondering if it's worth even buying tyres for this thing or if it should be designated as a lab experiment...

The chain is totally gummed up and the rear derailleur isn't adjusted. So I'm off to search on how to clean the chain.

There seem to be reams of threads on not using WD40, but can I use it to un-gum the chain and rear gears before applying another oil?

There seem to be reams of threads on not using WD40, but can I use it to un-gum the chain and rear gears before applying another oil?
Absolutely. I'm no expert, but I use WD40....
In the tear-down process to unstick bolts, nuts, etc.

In the rehab process to clean up stems and seatposts, minor rust on many parts, residue off of wheels, grease off of gears and chain (but degreaser does work better), and after I get a frame really clean, I rub it down hard with WD40. Amazing results in many cases.

In the rebuild process, I use it to lube DT and bar end shifters, all the pivots on FD/RD's, calipers, levers, etc. I used to use it when I ran cable through housings, but I tend to use graphite instead.

I have a friend that uses it, exclusively, on his chains. They always look new and are always quiet, but after two long rides, he has to re-do it.

After a ride, I sometimes use a rag with WD40 on it to wipe down the bike if I know it will be a couple of weeks before I ride that bike again.

thanks! I actually couldn't find our WD40, so I used liquid wrench and now the drivetrain works!

Sweet! I'm sitting here grinning, knowing there is one more person in the world who looks forward to getting a little grimy whilst tinkering!

OK. Another question (sorry, this could be endless). This thread should be renamed: help a newbie fix a bike, step by step.

I have the front brake working but the rear isn't. I have taken it off and cleaned it and it seems to be working ok when I work it by hand. When I pull the brake handle (is that the right term?) I can feel the cable flexing but nothing happens at the business end. So it doesn't seem to be broken, but stuck, and near the handle end. I dripped a bit of liquid wrench down the cable but I don't see how it would be able to travel allllll the way up to where it might be stuck. I've tried reefing on the brake handle to break free some imbedded dirt or rust, but no joy.

And also, the front brake caliper is set quite narrow and only just avoids rubbing the wheel (both sides; it's centred-ish). I adjusted the locknut that was at the end of the cable housing and this helped, but it's still a bit close for my liking. How does one make more gross adjustments of the caliper width?

I'm having quite a bit of fun, however the kids are now awake so that's it for the day unfortunately.

bronze wire brush (cheap)

this is my favorite way to remove rust.. easy on paint and soft aluminum with no harsh chemicals

When I pull the brake handle (is that the right term?)


the part of the brake on the handlebar is called the "brake lever" and the part near the wheel is the "brake caliper"


And also, the front brake caliper is set quite narrow and only just avoids rubbing the wheel (both sides; it's centred-ish).

this is ideal imo.. you want the pads as close as possible without touching the wheel

Great advice in this thread, and the only thing I can add is that working on a bicycle, no matter how cheap/hopeless/disposable, always has the undesireable effect of making me like that bicycle. Soon it rides better and fits me better than my "good" bikes, and n+1 yet again.

Beware the fondness.

For parts for inexpensive/flip bikes, I like to buy the $5 set of cables from wallyworld. You'll need a cable cutter, or diagonal cutters, or dremmel tool with a cut-off wheel to trim the cable housing to the correct length and then again to trim the cables. I by rim strips and inner tubes from my lbs because they're just as cheap as wallyworld and I like to support them some. I get the least expensive tires from niagra. Niagra is a better deal if you're buying a couple sets of inexpensive tires because you can save on the shipping. Just buying one set may be slightly cheaper than wallyworld, but you have instant gratification buying locally.

haha, fondness. You haven't seen this. I doubt I will ever be really fond of it. Though ti was pretty gratifying to get the pedals/drivetrain turning properly. It even changes gears now!

I'm hoping to not have to replace the cables because with a new set of tires, I'm going to only break even.

There's a CCM Grand Touring (mens) and a Raleigh Sport on my local kijiji for cheap right now and they are totally calling my name. ugh. It's getting pretty bad!

I agree just buy a '80 fuji, raleigh, bianchi, univega that needs some TLC and just dive in. as JReade suggest if you have a friend and if you live near a C&Ver I am sure they will lend a hand too.

PPSSSTT; alot of them can be bribed with cheap ale LOL

I'll have you know it has to be good German Weißbier. ;)

I'm hoping to not have to replace the cables because with a new set of tires, I'm going to only break even.

if you replace all the cables, tires and tubes, don't sell it for only $50.. price it on the high side of market value and write a good ad, being sure to mention all of the new items.

I agree, take that $10 bike and just start working on it.

Ask us questions, read, learn.

I think counting flips and keepers I've done 15 or 16 now...although I tend to go for restorations rather than simple clean and flips. Everytime I do a new bike I learn something new or learn how to do something I think I know how to do just a little better.