Advocacy & Safety - Is it bad to teach others about bike ettiquitte?

With all the talk about wrong way riders and improper riding, it it a bad thing to instruct people in proper cycling safety or technique?

Case in point... On my way home yesterday I rode passed a guy who was going the opposite way on the other side of the road. He was doing everything correctly...

However I noticed that his seat was all the way to the bottom of the seat post and his legs were extending away from him in a terrible angle.

I thought about turning around and explaining to him that he was riding a bike that was improperly adjusted and inefficient, and offering to adjust it for him if he wanted.

But I didn't want to come off as a know it all, or belittle him in anyway, so I just rode passed him and said hello.

What do you think. I see him once or twice a week, And I have nothing more than goodwill at heart. Should I stop him and help him out?

I'll let you good folks help me to decide what to do...

I've learned the hard way that I will not lecture anyone unless they ask for my advice. If I am riding with a friend, I might offer some tips, but to approach a complete stranger and offer advice? No.

No one really cares what you have to say (unless you are a celebrity, of course).

He sees you ride by too. Someday he'll notice your seat height, ask a shop or do some research and fix it.

I say leave it alone. If you see him grimace with pain it may be acceptable to tell him how to fix it, but short of that it's not your business.

You see him regularly. Start giving him a smile and a wave. Eventually you'll meet him somewhere and he'll remember you as the goofy guy who always gives him a friendly wave. Then you won't be a stranger and you can ask him if he likes his seat so low.

I have learned to keep my mouth shut, unless they ask for help! They always
know more than you. I am new to riding and asked for help and got a lot of
good advice, really helped me. Talking to him later he told me he would never
have said any thing if I had not ask.

I see people every day with the seat bottomed out. They think it is cool! I also
see them have a hard time getting going at the lights. Wobble and weave.

Really, is his seat height any of your business? If he's riding safely, give him a smile and a wave or peace sign.

Yeah I suppose you all are correct. I didn't really feel comfortable in saying anything and that's why I didn't.

No nothing about him is any of my business. Just the sight of him struggling up a hill with his knees going out like that made me feel a bit sorry for the guy.

He'll probably figure it out for himself one day. He's riding a Trek I believe. I'm guessing he probably bought it from an individual and not a store. That would explain the setup.

It's hard to offer advice like this to strangers. And usually it's not appropriate since obviously we know almost nothing about the people we don't know and what we think is best might not apply.
But there might be a way. If you're passing him on a hill you could offer "Hey, I found it much easier to climb hills when I raised my seat". Maybe you could engage him in another way first, just to show that you're nice and to not seem like a know-it-all.
The odds are stacked against you in terms of being well-received. Unless there is already some kind of friendly exchange happening, I would never approach a stranger to offer unsolicited advice, even out of a desire to help.
But given the right circumstance, you might be able to help him out.

Not sure what saddle height has to do with bike etiquette?

Too many post about "I want to tell other cyclist how to ride" lately.

If the other cyclist is endangering you, then say something, otherwise be quite.

I shout "get some lights" at some of the riders around here when they ride ninja style.

Here in Atlanta, you will be ticked for not having lights/reflectors on your bike. I was speaking to a cop buddy of mine yesterday, and he told me that this one of the bigger concerns for police here. Making sure that the "other guy" can't use the "I didn't see him defense"

Perhaps, I'll come up on him when we are headed the same direction and say hi. Then later on I can let him know I'm available for repairs and such. Perhaps invite him on a local group ride or something like that too. It's in my nature to be kind and helpful to others no matter what they may be doing.

For now, I'll just exchange pleasantries.

Thanks for the candor and advice gang!

Cycle Year Round

I hear you! And I usually do. If I lived in Honolulu, I would be diving year round!

I think your gut was right - generally there's little point in it. Besides which, while it sounds like in this case it's obviously too low, some people like their seats adjusted low, even knowing the facts. On my cheap-o Target Hybrid, I have my seat set low enough that most cyclists would consider it "too low" (still a decent bend in the knee and able to firmly put a foot down), but it doesn't hurt my knees for short jaunts, and that bike is just for short grocery trips and cruisin' ;).

At any rate, I will say that I can't see anything wrong with inviting him to a group ride or something social like that - that may be a good idea. In that setting it might be more acceptable to offer tips, and there's nothing wrong with extending an offer of community. As a rider, I'd be a lot more receptive to someone inviting me to a group thing and offering tips afterwards in that setting as opposed to a stranger telling me I should do this or that differently.

At any time you want to give advice, if you feel the need, ask first. "Do you mind if I give you some bike setup advice?" if he says no then forget it. If he says sure, then after you give the advice, he will likely forget it, or ignore you and later tell his friends about the crazy dude who lectured him. :) It's the same at the gym when someone wants to give someone advice on lifting. But it's nice to ask first

IMO, its best to teach by example
+ 1 to green427's comment

Generally I'll only give advice if I'm asked, unless the person is someone I'm actively training for on street riding or mountain biking. If another cyclist is actively endangering me, like running a stop sign when I'm already riding through the intersection, or drifting across a MUP toward me head-on, I feel free to call them out on it- and likewise don't mind if I get advised when I've screwed up.

While driving at afternoon rush hour in the right lane of the busiest main artery in my hometown, a middle-aged man was cycling dangerously against traffic in the few feet between the lane and the curb. He appeared abruptly from the side of a truck in front of me. I shouted through my open passenger-side window, "You're on the wrong side of the street...dumbass," I added in a low tone. He apparently heard me anyway, because he shouted back, "No I'm not -- dumbass!" You can't tell people anything. Yes, I know, I could have resisted calling him names, my fault. But it'll be his fault if he's struck and crushed by a moving vehicle.

I wouldn't say anything about seat height, though I have thought about it. I have asked one other guy on very low tires if he needed a pump and told him I had one on me. He declined and peddled on. But I always yell at salmon on my commute route, because I have most of my regular drivers trained and salmon confuse them. I don't yell at salmon outside my commute route.

Sounds like your friend may be hurting his knees. Is he young, by any chance? I don't bother people who pedal with their knees around their ears, but I think that's more important than etiquette, too.

It's "etiquette" not "ettiquitte".

Your grammatical usage and phrasing in the subject line for the thread is confusing. Is it "bad" what? Manners? Or just generally "bad"?

You wrote "it it a bad thing". Did you mean "it is a bad thing" or did you mean "is it a bad thing"? And that whole sentence is fragmented, it should be revised.

You wrote "What do you think." Was that a question? If so, why didn't you write "What do you think?"

You capitalized "And" even though you didn't start a new sentence.

You overuse and misuse the ellipsis in your post...

In answer to your question: Yes, it is bad manners to teach others (unsolicited) anything and it is my belief that applies as much to bicycle etiquette as it does to grammar.

If the rider is a dude, forget it. If the rider is a girl, definitely go ask if she needs help with her seat. And video tape the conversation.

Or, yell out "raise your seat dumb*&*" as you ride by.

Or, myob.

Oh - and nice demonstration buzzman.

Dear Silmarillion,
Thank you for writing to "Dear Bike Forums."

When wanting to give pointers or advice, the most subtle and effective way is to ask leading questions rather than doling out unsolicited nuggets of wisdom. Questions such as "What kind of bike is that?" "Do you ride a lot?" might lead to questions like, "Do you like your seat that low?"

Even these discrete questions would only be acceptable when you find yourself having a normal opportunity to talk. Do not turn around to tell a cyclist that his chain is squeaking or his seat is too low. And if you want to speak to a cyclist as the both of you are riding in opposite directions, "Nice bike!" and "Hi!" are two of the only acceptable greetings.

A couple of good leading questions might shed light on the situation. Maybe he knows he has his seat low and he has a quick one mile commute, but on the weekends he rides centuries on a carbon machine.

It's "etiquette" not "ettiquitte".

Your grammatical usage and phrasing in the subject line for the thread is confusing. Is it "bad" what? Manners? Or just generally "bad"?

You wrote "it it a bad thing". Did you mean "it is a bad thing" or did you mean "is it a bad thing"? And that whole sentence is fragmented, it should be revised.

You wrote "What do you think." Was that a question? If so, why didn't you write "What do you think?"

You capitalized "And" even though you didn't start a new sentence.

You overuse and misuse the ellipsis in your post...

In answer to your question: Yes, it is bad manners to teach others (unsolicited) anything and it is my belief that applies as much to bicycle etiquette as it does to grammar.


Ooops! Don't you hate it when you make errors when correcting others?

:innocent:Apparently I'm a lecturing jerk because I witness people on walmart full suspension pos's all the time seat all bottomed out. So one day I asked a lady if I could give her advice. She looked at me as if I asked her to take off her shirt. So I just said if you adjust your seat so that you leg is almost completely straight on the down stroke you'll be able to ride easier. She said ok and I took off. No incident.

:innocent:Apparently I'm a lecturing jerk because I witness people on walmart full suspension pos's all the time seat all bottomed out. So one day I asked a lady if I could give her advice. She looked at me as if I asked her to take off her shirt. So I just said if you adjust your seat so that you leg is almost completely straight on the down stroke you'll be able to ride easier. She said ok and I took off. No incident.
Tease. At this point I don't think anybody reading was interested in the height of bicycle seats.

With all the talk about wrong way riders and improper riding, it it a bad thing to instruct people in proper cycling safety or technique?

Case in point... On my way home yesterday I rode passed a guy who was going the opposite way on the other side of the road. He was doing everything correctly...

However I noticed that his seat was all the way to the bottom of the seat post and his legs were extending away from him in a terrible angle.

I thought about turning around and explaining to him that he was riding a bike that was improperly adjusted and inefficient, and offering to adjust it for him if he wanted.

But I didn't want to come off as a know it all, or belittle him in anyway, so I just rode passed him and said hello.

What do you think. I see him once or twice a week, And I have nothing more than goodwill at heart. Should I stop him and help him out?

I'll let you good folks help me to decide what to do...

Stop him BUT, ask him about his riding style. Don't do it with a negative tone in your voice or insinuate that he is being stupid. He may have(even though it may not seem so) a logical explanation for his riding style.

Personally I would love someone to approach me with advice on how to bike! I think it depends on the person though. If you can tell they are a beginner and thriving to get better and learn more than go for it! I am a complete amateur and am nervous to ask cyclers for help/advice. I don't want to interupt their ride / mess up their time / bug them. And I don't know if they are going to be friendly and want to help or look at me like I am an idiot.... So look at the guy and see if he looks like he would like to be a good cyclist if that him than he may be hoping you approach him!

I was riding with a friend last Sunday. As we passed a man going the other way on the trail, he said to my friend "Wear a helmet, Ma'am." I was wearing a helmet, as I always do. When we took a break a little later we talked about it. I said that maybe she should have said something about him wearing less form-fitting clothes. She said the reply she thought of a little too late had more to do with what he could do with himself.

Telling people that they are doing it right and they need to be more like you is generally not going to be welcome conversation.

I lectured a cyclist about riding on the sidewalk (after using some choice language about the lump above his shoulders). He had come up behind me silently as I was practicing pedestrianizing, and knocked me with his shoulder. He mumbled something about not riding on the road because he didn't want to get hit. I yelled as he rode off that I didn't much like getting hit either.

In retrospect, I realized that he didn't seem to have a lot of control riding. I hope he thought about it too - if the bump was more forceful or he tried to avoid me, he could have easily dropped over the curb riding against oncoming traffic.

-Gary

On my cruiser I have my seat low enough that I can put both feet on the ground with my knees still partially bent, and the fat tires would be considered "under-inflated" by most people. I find it comfortable when I'm cruising... I don't give a hoot about efficiency. You'd come off as exactly the opposite of a know-it-all if you said something to me about either one. I don't appreciate the "buy a helmet" crap either.

On the other hand, it's different when what they're doing affects you. Saying something about salmoning or lights is justified, but even then you really ought to be nice about it: maybe the person took a wrong turn or had to work several hours longer than expected. Nobody, including everyone on this board, is perfect all the time.