Recumbent - Looking for a fast first recumbent - recommendations?

Hi All,

I need a little help. I am a fairly serious recreational road cyclist (2,500 miles a year) and due to a case of persistent bursitis in my left elbow now find myself seriously considering the purchase of a recumbent for the first time. I am 48 years old and consider myself an A/B (18-20mph) group rider, and would like to continue riding at this level on a bent with my cycling friends. What I am looking for are recommendations of bikes to consider. Based on my admittedly limited research on the subject, I have come to the impression that I should probably be looking at a tall short wheel base bike such as the Bacchetta Strada or Corsa, or the Rans F5. Am I on the right track? What are your impressions of any of these bikes in a fast group ride including some pace line riding? Any other ideas for bikes I should consider for this type of riding?

Thanks for your input.

Regards,

Jay

Highracers work pretty well in pacelines once the uprights get over the "oddity" of it. As for helping your elbow, I wouldn't know.

Regardless, highracers are your best bet if you are interested in "fitting in" with uprights. If you want to be your own speed demon, then you might want to consider lowracers, too. :)

Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. And as far as helping the bursitis in my elbow goes, I think switching from a diamond framed bike to a recumbent will really help since I would not be placing any weight on my arms any longer. Most of my elbow pain issues went away over the off season when I was not on a bike as much. For much of the winter I just did spin classes, and did not ride out of doors. However, now that good cycling weather has finally returned here to the north country and I'm putting in some miles, my elbow pain is back with a vengeance.

You mentioned lowracers for consideration as well. What are the characteristics of bikes that would be considered lowracers? Do you have any examples?

Another bike that caught by eye was the Rans V-Rex or Ti-Rex. They look somewhat like a SWB highracer but with a smaller front wheel. What are the advantages/disadvantages of say the Rans F5 highracer vs. the V-Rex? Are heal strike issues reduced with the use of the smaller front wheel? I'm just trying to get my mind around what needs to be considered when shopping for a recumbent.

Thanks again for your input.

Regards,

Jay

I have a the Bacchetta Strada, and like it very much. If I were to buy again, I think I'd pick up the Corsa. As for characteristics, very comfortable, not as maneuverable as a DF bike IMO. They go up hills ok , but likely not quite as well as your used to, oh and did I mention they are very comfortable..:thumb:.. I would suggest that a head rest will be found useful.

Another bike that caught by eye was the Rans V-Rex or Ti-Rex. They look somewhat like a SWB highracer but with a smaller front wheel. What are the advantages/disadvantages of say the Ran F5 highracer vs. the V-Rex? Are heal strike issues reduced with the use of the smaller front wheel? I'm just trying to get my mind around what needs to be considered when shopping for a recumbent.

I think that for a first recumbent seat height and bottom bracket height are biggies. The value of visiting a recumbent specialty shop where you can see, sit on and ride the various styles of recumbents can't be overstated.

I think that for a first recumbent seat height and bottom bracket height are biggies. The value of visiting a recumbent specialty shop where you can see, sit on and ride the various styles of recumbents can't be overstated.

Thanks for the advise, and I certainly plan on test riding several makes and styles of recumbents before I make a decision. For that matter, I am pretty lucky to live in one of the better cycling cities in the US, the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. We have lots of bikes shops in the area, and one in particular (Calhoun Cycles) that carries a lot of recumbents. I realize that as with any bike, the only way to truly tell if a particular one is "right for you" is to test ride it, recumbent or not. I'm just trying to gain a little knowledge on the subject before I go shopping and test riding.

Thanks again for the advise.

Jay

You mentioned lowracers for consideration as well. What are the characteristics of bikes that would be considered lowracers? Do you have any examples?

Sure, do a search on Velokraft, Optima Baron, M5 recumbents, Challenge Fujin or the slightly higher Catbike Musashi. Those are just a few of the lowracers available. Here's a pic of my Velokraft VK2:

http://home.comcast.net/~trsnrtr/vk_feather.jpg

Another type of go-fast bike to consider is a long wheelbase like the RANS X-Stream. http://www.ransbikes.com/Xstream-N.htm

Might not work so well in a paceline, though. I loves my V3, which was replaced by the X-Stream. I'm generally not fast enough to worry about fitting in with a paceline.

If you already have a good road bike think about the Cruzbike Silvio. I have 8000 miles on mine and its still going strong. Jack

Another bike that caught by eye was the Rans V-Rex or Ti-Rex. They look somewhat like a SWB highracer but with a smaller front wheel. What are the advantages/disadvantages of say the Ran F5 highracer vs. the V-Rex? Are heal strike issues reduced with the use of the smaller front wheel? I'm just trying to get my mind around what needs to be considered when shopping for a recumbent.


The higher the BB is in relationship to the seat the more aerodynamic the bike is. The F5 is a pretty fast bike, the V-Rex - not so much.

The higher the BB is in relationship to the seat the more aerodynamic the bike is. The F5 is a pretty fast bike, the V-Rex - not so much.

2 big wheels not only get an aero benefit but also roll over imperfections in road surfaces more easily than the small/big wheel combo on the V-Rex.

2 big wheels not only get an aero benefit but also roll over imperfections in road surfaces more easily than the small/big wheel combo on the V-Rex.

Thanks for that insight. I remember reading about the benefits of bigger wheels being able to roll over imperfections easier, but it was more in the context of the advantages of 29" vs. 26" wheels on mountain bikes. Another question. Is one of the trade offs is that you end up with more heal/tire interference in a bent with a big front wheel?

I did look at the Optima High Baron on their web site and found it pretty interesting. (Thanks for the suggestion.) I am a tall guy (6'5.5") with a long 37" inseam. I found the fact that they claim no crank / tire overlap for us long legged folks an interesting (desirable?) feature. Too bad they don't have any dealers in my area of the county. I would love to take one for a test ride.

Jay

The higher the BB is in relationship to the seat the more aerodynamic the bike is. The F5 is a pretty fast bike, the V-Rex - not so much.

That makes since, but I hadn't really noticed that relationship when initially looking at the bikes on the Rans web site. Thanks for the insight!

Jay

Like Dennis, I have both a highracer and a lowracer. I'd say, if you plan on mixing it up with uprights, you're going to want a highracer. Dennis' VK2 is a beautiful machine, and fast too; but lowracers are for smoking uprights, not riding with them.

Along with my recommendation of a highracer, I'd also say you should get one with an adjustable seat. Riding reclined is a new experience, and it takes some time to get used to. You're going to want it more upright at first, and then you'll probably lower the seat angle as you get more comfortable with it. Of the 'stick bike' highracers, the Bacchettas keep getting the highest marks for stiffness and speed. I think the Corsas have a great cost/performance ratio. Of course if you want to go more exotic (carbon) they're out there. If you really want the speed, then look at the carbon shell seats, which transfer power better but aren't as airy as the mesh ones.

I can't say I recommend my M5 CHR. In addition to the difficulty of buying one in the States, it's a bit too low for taller upright riders to draft; although most of the shorter guys and women can do it. But like with the VK2, going against 3-4 of your buddies on uprights is YOU WIN: GAME OVER, because you can cruise faster than any of them can pull the paceline. In practice, what that translates to is that you're fresh at the end of the ride, and if you get 'happy feet' in the middle of the ride, they don't reel you in until you let them.

The Cruzbikes are a love-them or hate-them product. There is no in-between. Personally, after thinking they looked cool and trying one, I decided I hate them. To say they have pedal-steer from H*ll is a gross understatement. My advice there is to not even consider them unless you can do a protracted test ride.

BTW, I have a V-Rex. It's very comfortable but it's the slowest recumbent I have. At one point I had it hot-rodded with front fairing, tailbox, and wheel covers; but even then it was 1 mph slower than my Baron in a 1-hour time trial.

The Cruzbikes are a love-them or hate-them product. There is no in-between. Personally, after thinking they looked cool and trying one, I decided I hate them. To say they have pedal-steer from H*ll is a gross understatement. My advice there is to not even consider them unless you can do a protracted test ride.


True enough. There's a wide range of reactions to the Cruzbike's front-wheel drive, moving bottom bracket design. I just got a Silvio as my first recumbent. For me the transition was easy. I wonder if it's harder for long-time 'bent riders to adjust to the "pedal steer" that comes with the FWD-MBB format? For me, as a newbie, maybe I didn't have any existing notions of the ride, and just went with what the bike was telling me.

A big factor in my choosing the Silvio is the 700C compatibility. I bought a frameset and built it up with components I already had.

Hi All,

Well, I went out and test rode my first bent today: a Bacchetta Corsa with the 650C wheels. This being my first time on a recumbent of any kind, I'll have to say it was a little weird at first, but after 15 minutes or so I'd say I was "adjusting" better than I thought I would so early on. I'd definitely say it felt "squirrely" in the handling department compared to my 63cm 2006 Trek 2100 road bike. But then again I have ridden my Trek for so long that I am very comfortable putting it exactly where I want it when I want it. I think I will try to go back and test ride it again when I can go out for a little longer ride of at least 30 minutes to an hour or so. I also want to find some hills and see how I feel about climbing on a bent.

Now here's a question for you long time performance bent riders. How long did it take for you to become as comfortable with your bike handling skills on your bent as you were with your bike handling skills on your upright road bike? Or do they always feel a bit "squirrely" in the handling department when compared to an upright road bike? (I am referring specifically to SWB High Racers here, as I am sure the LWB bents handle completely differently.)

Thanks for you input.

Jay

First off, the Corsa is a good choice.

Now, as for being comfortable on handling of a highracer, here are a few tips:

Make sure the seat to crank length is close to perfect. It makes a huge difference in handling. A little short or a little long on your leg reach and the handling gets pretty wonky.

Next, grip the bars with a very light touch. A firm grip on the bars can cause a lot of problems. Grip them gently.

Remember to shift down at stops. You'll probably learn this tip pretty fast especially if you stop on an uphill. :)

Last of all, relax! It will take some time but most people feel pretty comfortable after a couple rides. :thumb:

One thing with the highracers is to make sure it's not too small for you. The seat may slide back far enough to accommodate your leg length, but also make sure your shoulders are ahead of the rear axle, even when you're fully reclined. If the weight distribution is too far back, high-speed handling goes weird in a hurry; although it may not be apparent at lower speeds.

It took me about 300 miles to feel comfortable riding next to another bike.

It took me about 300 miles to feel comfortable riding next to another bike.

Yep, I probably understated that one. 300 miles is probably about right.

One thing with the highracers is to make sure it's not too small for you. The seat may slide back far enough to accommodate your leg length, but also make sure your shoulders are ahead of the rear axle, even when you're fully reclined. If the weight distribution is too far back, high-speed handling goes weird in a hurry; although it may not be apparent at lower speeds.

It took me about 300 miles to feel comfortable riding next to another bike.

Thanks for the tip on the center of gravity and fore/aft weight distribution issue. I rode the XL frame size so I would hope it would be okay, but I will have to look into that when I go back for the extended test ride. I did not get going too fast last evening on my initial test ride, but the bike did start to feel a little squirrely as my speed increased. Enough so that it was becoming a little worrisome. Not too unlike how my old 27" mid '80's steel frame bike feels on a high speed decent when the noodley frames starts to wobble. (And yes, it actually is a 27" frame, not just a bike with 27" wheels. Did I mention I am 6'5"? Well, it was the largest production frame I could find back in 1984 when I bought it.)

BTW, what is generally considered proper leg length setup on a highracer? Is it similar to a setup for a DF road bike; just a slight bend in the knee at the bottom of the pedal stroke? I'm guessing the old "knee over pedal spindle" rule gets thrown out the window on a recumbent. Am I right? If so, are there any other general fitting rules of thumb that are followed for recumbents? This is a whole new world for me.

On another note, I was seriously thinking of trying to get a test ride on one of the new 700C Bacchetta Corsas. My thinking is that since I am so tall, it might fit me better. I could be off on that though. In any case, I will most likely need to go with the largest frame size any of the highracer manufacturers produce. Too bad my local Bacchetta dealer does not have any of the new 700C Corsas in stock, but I understand they are just now showing up in the pipeline anyway so he may get one in soon. I'll have to talk to him about that.

Jay

Yes, you still should have a slight bend in the knee at full pedal extension. IMO opinion, slow speed handling will never match that of a DF bike, and I've quite a few miles on my bent. High speed handling however for me was never a problem. I once hit 55 mph down hill with an accurately set up computer on a very steep hill and my strada felt stable and not at all squirrelly. Make sure your grip on the bars is light and the Corsa should handle just fine at the higher speeds.

I don't know...."a really fast first recumbent" .......That's like a fresh, delicious, non fattening bread; ain't no such thing, in my opinion.
By the time you get your bent-legs in shape , no matter which bike you bought , you will be drooling over the next "fastest" to get.....

So why not start with something proven, something that set some records (with the right human motor) something which can be made into a rocket ship with just the addition of a sock and fairing ? And that would be a GRR (Gold Rush Replica from Easy Racers) or a Lightning P-38 ?

Going from a DF to a recumbent and immediately going into a Low Racer or even High Racer will be a drastic, painful and expensive transition which may or may not turn out well. On the other hand, there are few recumbents you would be able to resell as easily as a GRR or a P-38.....try to find a used one, it may be tough.....

I don't know...."a really fast first recumbent" .......That's like a fresh, delicious, non fattening bread; ain't no such thing, in my opinion.

Laid-back bikes are harder to learn. Thus my suggestion for one with a seat having an adjustable angle. A GRR (with fairing) is probably similar in speed to your average upright road bike; a bare P-38 maybe close. While going the faired route is OK, (and I've been down that road,) reducing frontal is more desirable to me than streamlining; because it's 'free' in the sense that it doesn't add weight, complexity, or cost. And if you're riding with upright riders, they tend to view fairings as one of the things that make recumbents 'weird.'

Going from a DF to a recumbent and immediately going into a Low Racer or even High Racer will be a drastic, painful and expensive transition which may or may not turn out well. On the other hand, there are few recumbents you would be able to resell as easily as a GRR or a P-38.....try to find a used one, it may be tough.....

I personally think this is a little over the top. This is how it goes for some folks, but I've also seen people who have never ridden a bent before go from first trying a LWB, then to a SWB, and then to a high racer in the span of less than an hour. This is in a sheltered, flat test riding environment, so sure, it would take longer for them to have total confidence in all terrain, in traffic, etc. but some folks 'get it' right away, and some folks don't. So long as a person has the opportunity to try some different bents before they buy, there is no reason to conceptually limit the thinking on what 'bent they may be happy purchasing initially.

I personally think this is a little over the top. This is how it goes for some folks, but I've also seen people who have never ridden a bent before go from first trying a LWB, then to a SWB, and then to a high racer in the span of less than an hour. This is in a sheltered, flat test riding environment, so sure, it would take longer for them to have total confidence in all terrain, in traffic, etc. but some folks 'get it' right away, and some folks don't. So long as a person has the opportunity to try some different bents before they buy, there is no reason to conceptually limit the thinking on what 'bent they may be happy purchasing initially.

Thanks for the encouragement. And I would have to say for me personally, I did not really feel all that uncomfortable even after only 30 minutes on the Corsa. I could definitely see myself doing this, although if mixing it up with the uprights wasn't one of my goals, I could certainly see myself looking at a low racer. They look like an extreme go fast thrill. The sense of speed must be incredible being so close to the ground. In any case, I haven't developed the "bent" legs yet of course, so I am fully expecting a ramp up period getting all the right muscles in shape if I were to make the change to any style bent.

Right now I think I may wait for a used Bacchetta Corsa or maybe a Rans Force 5, F5, or other similar bike to come up used on my local Craigslist or possibly on eBay. I would really like to keep my purchase price in the $1,000 price range, and not the $2,000 plus it would take to get into a new Corsa. Hopefully I'll get lucky and find one early in the season instead of later. That way I can test out the bent waters on the cheap before deciding to jump in with both feet and get something like a Bacchetta Carbon Arrow 2.0. ;-)

Jay

I just came across a Rans Force 5 in the XL frame size down in the Chicago area. And at about the price I want to pay too. What do you guys think? How does the Rans Force 5 ride in comparison to the Bacchetta Corsa? They certainly are similar designs, but the Corsa is of course aluminum, while the Force 5 is a steel frame bike.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/2418057642.html

It would be a bit of a drive to go get it, especially with gas prices the way they are right now. But this is just about what I am looking for. Hopefully one will show up in the Minneapolis area in the not too distant future.

Jay

Well, it's not quite local, but I did find a used 2010 Bacchetta Strada in my frame size on Craigslist in a town located about 200 miles away. It would be a day drive round trip to pick it up if I decide to try and get it. Unfortunately, even though the bike is less than a year old and has very little use, the price seems a little high at $1,399, which is about $400 less than a new one, and about $400 more than I would like to spend. What do you all think? Should I wait for an aluminum Corsa and skip the Strada?

For those of you that have ridden both the Strada and the Corsa, what are your impressions of their respective ride qualities? Is the aluminum/lighter/stiffer frame of the Corsa worth the extra money?

Thanks,

Jay

Firstly, all the above posts are good advice. In particular, high racers are the best for riding with your upright companions, adjustable seat angle desirable as you will want to recline more with experience, seat to pedal distance important (expect lots of trial-and-error with even 1/4” making quite a difference on long rides), and ride as many recumbents for as long as possible before deciding on one (let the bike pick you).

Secondly, how hilly are the rides with your upright companions? If hills are a major part, most riders on most recumbents are slower up significant hills and faster on the downhills and into the wind. Group rides with diamond frames can result in a “yo-yo” effect with the uprights getting ahead of you on the hills and you passing them on the downhills and thus you would not be riding with your companions as much. You will probably get relatively better as you get recumbent legs, but obviously a lighter and/or better climbing recumbent will be important if hills are part of those rides together. The other thing to help stay together is let each platform do what it does best. Do not the lead the pace line for some time before hills so you are well rested before the hill. Conversely, you are at your best pulling the pace line downhill or into the wind.

High racers to consider include the Bacchetta Corsa or CarbonAero (both available in 650c and 622 wheels), Volae Team (frame made in Wisconsin by Waterford; Volaes are exceptional in they have four frame & seat sizes, so if you are difficult to fit, a drive to Hostel Shoppe (http://www.hostelshoppe.com/recumbent_catalog.php) in Stevens Point is in order), and the Rans Force 5. The CarBents are the other high performance high racer available in the US, but the seat angle is fixed with boom length adjustable and you are unlikely to find one to test ride in your area. Other reputed well climbing recumbents are the Lightening P-38 (seating less reclined, so perhaps bit slower on the flats and downhills) and the Metabike models. You can Google the manufacture sites for all of these.

Some of the above bikes not only have seat sizes but seat-type options. In general the carbon shell seats will be lighter and firmer for better performance but a bit warmer, more road vibration, and more expensive.

Have you discovered BentRiderOnline (http://www.bentrideronline.com/)? If not, browse over there because it is THE Internet site for recumbent bikes including used recumbents. You can search out threads about the bikes you are considering.

Since you are in the Twin Cities area, Hostel Shoppe (http://www.hostelshoppe.com/recumbent_catalog.php) in Stevens Point WI has lots of recumbent to try out (particularly the Volae, which is their bike) and is very good to deal with. Plan on spending the entire day trying out bikes. They also often have used Volaes and check their website's classifieds for individuals selling used recumbents.

p.s. For getting riding experience on handling recumbents, also consider the quality of experience. You will learn faster doing things focused on handling the recumbent. Thus go to an empty parking lot and ride figure eights, doing them tighter and tighter. Start on uphills, first very gentle ones and then increasingly steeper. Depending on tire size and ground firmness, ride on grass to get experience in more extreme maneuvers. Try braking HARD on good pavement; you will find you have to really push back on the pedals or you slide forward; locking the front wheel is very difficult compared to an upright. Likewise, it is difficult to go over the handlebars on hard braking on most recumbents compared to an upright (unless you are a very good diamond frame rider that instantly slides back off the seat and locks your arms). That is worth remembering in pace lines; you can probably stop faster than the uprights you are pace lining with so as always in pace lines, communication and no drastic moves.

Well, I pulled the trigger yesterday on a used 2004 model Bacchetta Strada. I had to drive a few miles to get it, (from Minneapolis to Des Moines and back), but at only $600, it was a pretty good deal. It even included a brand new unused carbon fiber seat in addition to the standard re-curve seat that the bike came with. It needs a little cleaning, a lube, a couple of tires, and new seat foam and cover for the re-curve, but overall it is in pretty good condition. My plan right now is to ride it for a while "As-Is" to get a feel for riding a high racer recumbent, and then possibly make the 700c conversion over the winter if I take to it like I hope and expect I will. At 6'5" tall, I don't think I will have any problems with the added height with the 700c wheels. I have included a couple of pics from the Craigslist ad.

Thanks to everyone for their input and assistance with this search. I've learned a lot, and know I will learn a lot more in the months to come as I become familiar with my new ride.

206600206601

:recum: Congrats and ENJOY!! :thumb:

That's a good choice. Ride the rubber off of it! :thumb:

Nice bike!

Well, I got my first "long" ride (30 miles) in on my Bacchetta Strada this morning. I rode with some of my upright buddies, and after having to do a little explaining exactly what I was doing on a recumbent, actually showed myself quite well. I was able to climb better than I expected, (I am a fairly good climber on a DF bike) and the Strada was definitely faster on the flats and downhill as I expected it would be. It seems to me that the performance profile of a high racer recumbent is somewhat like that of a tandem with a good team. Somewhat slower on the climbs, but watch out on the downhills and flats. One of the guys I ride with made the comment that it didn't look like I was having too much trouble climbing "on that thing". I can't wait until I get my "bent legs" so I can see what I can really do. It will be interesting.

Jay

Congrats on the new-to-you ride. It sounds like you made a good choice! And at a pretty good deal, too.

If you haven't poked around the b-forum, you might enjoy it. Lots of excellent advice.

http://forum.bacchettabikes.com/forum2/

Cheers!

Well, I pulled the trigger yesterday on a used 2004 model Bacchetta Strada. I had to drive a few miles to get it, (from Minneapolis to Des Moines and back), but at only $600, it was a pretty good deal.

Pardon my language, but you scored big time.

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