Classic & Vintage - Gummed up SA hub?

My Raleigh Superbe is functionally a single speed bike at the moment as it doesn't shift reliably. I am only using it in 2nd right now because it sometimes shifts (up or down) and sometimes not. When it does shift, it's perfect and was adjusted by LBS guy/friend, but sometimes it seems to bind and forcing it into "1st" at the trigger has no effect of the gear in the hub. I hope I'm being clear with my limited bike vocab! Similarly going into 3rd.

I'm too chicken to pull the hub apart, plus I don't have a vise and probably don't have the right size tools either. Although it does sound like a fun (?) challenge, I think it might be a bit too much for me. After all, I replaced my first tire and brake cable only last week and have never worked on anything mechanical, really.

I've put a little (like 4 drops) of Phil Tenacious in there. Should I put more in? A lot?

Could I put some other sort of runnier (less viscous? more viscous? I can't remember which way it goes!) oil in there to swill it all around? What about some solvent - Liquid Wrench or the like?

Luckily there are hardly any hills around here!

Thanks for your help!

Hello Rookgirl.
Yes, you can run the thinner of your preference through there until it is running clean, let it drain well and reload with your lube of choice.

My preference for such a job, because I'm lazy, is spray carb or brake cleaner. Remove the indicator chain, open the lube cap, & you can poke the spray tube in the axle, and blow away! Use the whole can, it's cheap. Do it over a garbage can so it drains in there.

Thanks David. I presume that I would have it so the lube cap is facing downwards?

Does the indicator chain just unscrew all the way out (much as you screw it tight and then back off when adjusting it?)

BTW, I checked out you guitars and they are beautiful. I'm a professional Violist.

Oh and when I reload with lube, can I use the Phil and how much?

Thanks David. I presume that I would have it so the lube cap is facing downwards?

Does the indicator chain just unscrew all the way out (much as you screw it tight and then back off when adjusting it?)

BTW, I checked out you guitars and they are beautiful. I'm a professional Violist.

First, have you determined that the sticktion is in the hub itself and not in either the shifter and/or the cable and housing? Make sure the cable moves freely before attacking the hub.

It doesn't matter a great deal how you orient the lube cap; the solvent will find a way to run out regardless. I usually just squirt a boatload of WD-40 into the lube port and ride it around for a while. More often than not, this is sufficient to get things moving again in there. You can completely unscrew the indicator rod; the axle key inside the hub is held in a manner that allows the rod to easily re-engage.

If you do have a bench mounted vise, opening the hub will be much easier. AW hubs are pretty easy to work with and often all they need is a good rinse with some solvent. If you find rust when you open the hub, you will likely want to completely disassemble it and give it a thorough cleaning. Use a wire wheel to remove loose rust and drop the planet gears and such into vinegar or OA to remove the rest. Check for chipped teeth and driver/clutch damage and replace parts as required.

A professional violist, eh? My daughter is a violist in her 3rd year at Conservatory...

Oh and when I reload with lube, can I use the Phil and how much?

Phil tenacious oil is fine. About 5-10cc initially to replace whatever solvent you used, followed by a few drops every couple weeks to keep things smooth and quiet.

Oh and when I reload with lube, can I use the Phil and how much?

You can, but I believe it's a little thick. Some people here swear by ATF (atuomatic transmission fluid). You could try a squirt of that first in your hub, rather than solvent--it may loosen up the gummed up parts.

I bought a quart of synthetic 10W-30 motor oil and use that in my hubs.

A professional violist, eh? My daughter is a violist in her 3rd year at Conservatory...

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/jokes/viola.html

I've been a big fan of ATF in the old AW and also Shimano 333 hubs. Been using it year round and it works great. I managed to free up an AW a couple weeks ago for my girlfriends "new" Superbe that had been sitting for quite some time with a little ATF and a week worth of regular riding. It had very similar symptoms that you describe.

I've put a little (like 4 drops) of Phil Tenacious in there. Should I put more in? A lot?

I would definitely try using a lot of oil to get things moving before resorting to solvent.

Yes, the indicator unscrews easily from the hub, and you can screw it back in when you're done.

On mine, I didn't have much luck with the oil port, so I unscrewed one of the cones and sprayed the inside with PB Blaster. It freed up immediately. Granted, this was a bike that hadn't been ridden in ages - Something's obviously moving in the hub for you to be able to ride it.

The "correct" oil is 20W non-detergent oil. You can get a quart of it at any auto parts store, or you can buy 3-in-1 SAE 20 for electric motors (NOT regular 3-in-1) in a conveniently shaped bottle at most places that sell electric power tools. Make sure you have a little grease on the cones. It only takes a few drops.

I only tear down SA hubs as a last resort or if something is obviously wrong, crunching and grinding sounds or completely locked up are good indicators.

Use a solvent and lighter oil, the ATF is good. As pointed out, check the shifter and cable. I find that usually solves the problem in about half the cases I have of non functioning hubs. The hub really doesn't care what type of oil you use, just use something. In colder climates the heavier oils will cause problems in the winter months.

Aaron :)

So wait...ATF is a type of oil? Sorry, dumb question!

Can I put oil in the shifter if it sticking?

And JohnDThompson - you poor daughter, LOL. Where's she at school? I did my grad work at Eastman.

As noted above, ATF is simply Automatic Transmission Fluid - oil for automatic gearboxes on cars. Where I'm from it's typically red. It has a lot of other stuff besides oil in it, and is not too thick. I don't bother with that stuff, I just use some cheap oil for sewing machines.

You can and should get some oil in the shifter every now and then. I find it better to use really thin oil there often rather than thick oil seldom.

Is your hub an AW? If so, use as much oil as you like, any excess will happily flow out. If it's an ABC or any other hub with a drum brake, be CAREFUL not to overdo it. The sealant ring between hub and brake isn't too good, so excess oil will leak into the brake and render it totally ineffective.

My two cents.

Ahhh, the beauty of an oil thread!

haha, I know oil is a perennial topic.

It is an AW hub. I'll try some oil in the shifter and something in the hub itself.

The "correct" oil is 20W non-detergent oil. You can get a quart of it at any auto parts store, or you can buy 3-in-1 SAE 20 for electric motors (NOT regular 3-in-1) in a conveniently shaped bottle at most places that sell electric power tools. Make sure you have a little grease on the cones. It only takes a few drops.

You want the blue can: 205309


Is your hub an AW? If so, use as much oil as you like, any excess will happily flow out.

Well, maybe park it over some old newspapers. Also, make sure it doesn't get on your rims, as your brakes won't work, either.

When it does shift, it's perfect and was adjusted by LBS guy/friend, but sometimes it seems to bind and forcing it into "1st" at the trigger has no effect of the gear in the hub.

I don't know how experienced you are with using these hubs, so just in case you don't know this . .

If the gears aren't aligned correctly in the hub, it won't shift into first. When it feels like you are forcing it into first, back pedal a little bit and then try shifting into first. This should work.

I don't know how experienced you are with using these hubs, so just in case you don't know this . .

If the gears aren't aligned correctly in the hub, it won't shift into first. When it feels like you are forcing it into first, back pedal a little bit and then try shifting into first. This should work.

Ah, I didn't do that. And no, I'm not at all experienced with using them! Thanks everyone!

You want the blue can: 205309



Well, maybe park it over some old newspapers. Also, make sure it doesn't get on your rims, as your brakes won't work, either.

Can I use this 3 in 1 oil for anything else? Chains?

These hubs do leak. When you park your bike make sure the oil hole in the hub is up. I usually weave paper towels in and out of the spokes for the first few days after an oiling to catch the excess that leaks out. Keeps the oil from getting on the rims and brake pads.

Can I use this 3 in 1 oil for anything else? Chains?

Sure. You can oil your furnace motor with it, too.

You can oil your chain with ATF, or 10W-30, too.
I've soaked old, rusty chains in ATF, then scrubbed with an old toothbrush, and they come out looking clean.

I don't know how experienced you are with using these hubs, so just in case you don't know this . .

If the gears aren't aligned correctly in the hub, it won't shift into first. When it feels like you are forcing it into first, back pedal a little bit and then try shifting into first. This should work.

Also, you need to let off pedaling when you shift. If you learned to shift on a derailer bike this will take some getting used to. Not sure if you know this.

Oh! So how do you change gears when going up a hill? I tried changing in advance the other day and the result was grinding to a halt and having to walk up it. V embarassing.

Oh! So how do you change gears when going up a hill? I tried changing in advance the other day and the result was grinding to a halt and having to walk up it. V embarassing.

Just pause for a second, and pull the trigger. You may need to shift a bit sooner than you're used to.

And JohnDThompson - you poor daughter, LOL. Where's she at school? I did my grad work at Eastman.

She's at Lawrence University: http://www.lawrence.edu/conservatory/

I have a 57 AW that didn't spin at all. I sprayed some WD-40 in it and forgot about it. I was cleaning up today and found the wheel. Much to my amazement it spun very smoothly. Now I just need to build it into a wheel and see if it works.

I never fail to be amazed when I read about the abuse the British built bicycles have endured over the decades.
Left out in the rain, no maintenance and just neglected and beat to hell.
A few drops of oil and off we go.
It really says a lot for the old English 3 speeds.
The chrome, Sturmey Archer mechanicals and frames were just superior in every way.
I guess the difference being bicycles in the U.S. were considered toys and the British built bikes were transportation for the population.

I never fail to be amazed when I read about the abuse the British built bicycles have endured over the decades.
Left out in the rain, no maintenance and just neglected and beat to hell.
A few drops of oil and off we go.
It really says a lot for the old English 3 speeds.
The chrome, Sturmey Archer mechanicals and frames were just superior in every way.
I guess the difference being bicycles in the U.S. were considered toys and the British built bikes were transportation for the population.

And a LOT of those people worked to build those bikes. After WWII the British Empire was a bit short on oil (and it's various byproducts (gasoline for example)) So bike were a major means of transportation.

I have several of them and am constantly amazed at the extreme durability of them. Based on inflation calculators a basic Raleigh 3 speed would cost around $450 today, however most of the bikes in the price range are a far cry from the old British bikes of yesteryear.


Aaron :)

My S5 works perfectly, yet it does not leak oil at all. Does that mean that there's not enough oil in it? Should I add oil until it starts leaking?

My S5 works perfectly, yet it does not leak oil at all. Does that mean that there's not enough oil in it? Should I add oil until it starts leaking?

I listen for the ticking noise, a "bright" or metalic ticking means dry, a softer ticking means plenty of oil. It doesn't take much on a rebuild I oil the parts, then add a maximum of 10ml (2 teaspoons) then put a single shot in before a long ride, or after 2-3 or three short rides. When I was using a 3 speed as a commuter it got a shot of oil every couple of weeks. In my experience if oil is leaking out of the hub, you either have too much in it or the grease in the bearings is completely gone.

Aaron :)

I got the hub from Hilary Stone. He's a certified SA technician, so he may have put fresh gease in it that's keeping the oil in. It has the plastic filler cap, and it doesn't leak.