Advocacy & Safety - Supreme Court weighs in on car chases....

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-court-felony-20110610,0,3788573.story

After having been almost tee-boned by a cop in a pursuit....hearing this is good news.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-court-felony-20110610,0,3788573.story

After having been almost tee-boned by a cop in a pursuit....hearing this is good news.

How? All this does is increases the incentive to really drive like a crazy ****er when the cops are after you.

For a moment I assumed that it was going to be illegal for cops to engage in high-speed chases, but no...

Scalia for the win, you liberal commie ******.

The only problem that I have with this is that if a person is already looking at their third strike what incentive do they have NOT to flee at high speed?

I mean if they're going to be going away for 15 years for their third strike what difference does it make if they're fleeing from the police at a high rate of speed? What about a person who just walks away from their crime and eludes police? Isn't that what one of the criminals was picked up doing? Walking away from the scene of the crime while trying to ditch his weapon?

One thing to think about is that a violent felony justifies use of deadly force by an officer. Not sure whether this is a good thing or not...

Upholding fleeing as a violent felony is the probably the right thing to do, what we need now is more police policies that discourage unnecessary escalation of car chases. Most of the time the best thing to do is back off and capture the criminal at a later date. Chasing just increases the risk factor to the members of the general public.

Upholding fleeing as a violent felony is the probably the right thing to do, what we need now is more police policies that discourage unnecessary escalation of car chases. Most of the time the best thing to do is back off and capture the criminal at a later date. Chasing just increases the risk factor to the members of the general public.
The problem with this is that often times this gives the criminal time to hide/destroy evidence. DUI is a perfect example of this. If the police let a DUI suspect go and apprended them the next day, they've sobered up and now there's no evidence to prosecute the offender for the original offence.

Unfortunately there are no easy answers to this one.

The problem with this is that often times this gives the criminal time to hide/destroy evidence. DUI is a perfect example of this. If the police let a DUI suspect go and apprended them the next day, they've sobered up and now there's no evidence to prosecute the offender for the original offence.

Unfortunately there are no easy answers to this one.

No, there sure aren't! If cops chase perps who are behind the wheel, the public safety is compromised. If cops don't chase, the perps have an "escape jail free" card for carjackings, armed robberies, DWI and all sorts of crimes which compromise the public safety. In a great many cases, if the perp is free to flee it will be hard, if not impossible, to prove who was in the car after the fact.

Don in Austin

I actually think the easy answer is to leave it "fuzzy", and let it be sorted out by the courts on a case by case basis.

Basically let the facts be known, and have a judge (and/or jury) decide if what the person did be considered a violent felony. Not perfect, but it might give the person deciding whether or not to flee something to think about (if they are even thinking at all). And while they are thinking, grab em :D.

No, there sure aren't! If cops chase perps who are behind the wheel, the public safety is compromised. If cops don't chase, the perps have an "escape jail free" card for carjackings, armed robberies, DWI and all sorts of crimes which compromise the public safety.

Additionally, a lot of the chases seem to originate from situations where the BG was already driving very dangerously. I can think of at least two cases around here where chases were either called off or lost because the cops didn't push hard enough to keep up, where the BG went on to cause serious injury accidents well after the chase was over.

IMO, they need to go to a policy (with legislation to back it up) of placing no value whatsoever on a fleeing suspect's safety when it endangers others. I've seen too many DPS pursuits come into town with the entire local PD shift sitting beside the road watching and waiting to join the pursuit rather than setting up a serious roadblock to keep it out of the city at all costs. One of those ended up zigzagging through three residential areas for half an hour before the suspect ran out of gas. The local police had waited 15 minutes from the time it was announced until it actually entered the town, and they had enough cars there to block the road from ditch to ditch with a double line of Crown Victorias. The only thing that kept it from being a lot worse was that it happened between semesters, so there weren't a lot of students out walking, riding and driving around in those mainly college neighborhoods.

Additionally, a lot of the chases seem to originate from situations where the BG was already driving very dangerously. I can think of at least two cases around here where chases were either called off or lost because the cops didn't push hard enough to keep up, where the BG went on to cause serious injury accidents well after the chase was over.

IMO, they need to go to a policy (with legislation to back it up) of placing no value whatsoever on a fleeing suspect's safety when it endangers others. I've seen too many DPS pursuits come into town with the entire local PD shift sitting beside the road watching and waiting to join the pursuit rather than setting up a serious roadblock to keep it out of the city at all costs. One of those ended up zigzagging through three residential areas for half an hour before the suspect ran out of gas. The local police had waited 15 minutes from the time it was announced until it actually entered the town, and they had enough cars there to block the road from ditch to ditch with a double line of Crown Victorias. The only thing that kept it from being a lot worse was that it happened between semesters, so there weren't a lot of students out walking, riding and driving around in those mainly college neighborhoods.

That's a good point, they (the police) need to do more to stop pursuits before they enter a new town/county. Particularly when they have had ample warning that it was coming.

As you said, they should be doing is lining up as many cars as they can, they also need to have the officers from all of those cars on the far side of the cars with weapons drawn and pointed in the BG's direction.

Sadly, I think that most people know that spike strips really do little to stop a BG who is intent on running. And if they've stolen the car that they're driving what is their incentive to not run it into the ground?

As you said, they should be doing is lining up as many cars as they can, they also need to have the officers from all of those cars on the far side of the cars with weapons drawn and pointed in the BG's direction.

Actually, they had two great opportunities to stop it well away from town; narrow bridges where two cars nose to nose at the start of the bridge would block the entire passage, or one car with a good spike strip could narrow it to where the suspect's choice would be a solid hit on the spikes or ramming the car.


Sadly, I think that most people know that spike strips really do little to stop a BG who is intent on running.

The main problem with spikes is that they're made to slowly deflate the tires so the poor, misunderstood suspect won't lose control from a blowout. IMO, when you can get them out on the open road and clear a good "crash zone" beyond the strip, use something that will rip the rubber right off the wheels or just set up 2-3 officers to put as much buckshot into the front of the car as possible.

What ever happened to some of the military/border patrol experiments with better spike strip alternatives? ISTR one that was basically a steel cable net with barbed spikes; toss it in the car's path, it sticks in the front wheels and wraps them up so they can't turn. It stopped front wheel drive cars every time, and rear wheel drive cars were slowed to a jogging pace with no real control.

A strong electromagnetic pulse would immobilize a car.

I don't see the need for car chases. Given the technology we have like drones and spy satellites we should be able to pinpoint the location of the bad guys within a hundred feet or so.

A strong electromagnetic pulse would immobilize a car.

Turn off the movies and google "Faraday cage." The engine compartment of a car is surrounded by metal shielding. That kind of pulse would require a system the size of a U-Haul truck, and would kill everything electronic in the area, especially the radio receivers the cops need to do their job.

Turn off the movies and google "Faraday cage." The engine compartment of a car is surrounded by metal shielding. That kind of pulse would require a system the size of a U-Haul truck, and would kill everything electronic in the area, especially the radio receivers the cops need to do their job.

Fine. Do it the old way then. Launch a magnetic stun bomb that sticks to the car.

Fine. Do it the old way then. Launch a magnetic stun bomb that sticks to the car.

The old way is the same as the new way: blow holes in the car until something critical to keeping it moving breaks. Only the calibers have changed. (.45-70, to .30-06, to 10ga, to .50BMG All still work fine; the newer ones just sound cooler and give the department an excuse to buy a $2500 rifle instead of a $300 one.)

Speaking of chase situations... Had a near miss back decades ago... I was doing my usual commute and heard sirens. I could not quite place the direction of the sound and wasn't sure if I needed to get out of the way or move over or what. The sirens got louder and louder as I neared a train crossing. Moments before I cross the tracks, a car comes wildly bounding down the tracks, followed closely by a wailing police car. Last place and direction I would have expected. It was like something out of a bad police movie.

Actually, they had two great opportunities to stop it well away from town; narrow bridges where two cars nose to nose at the start of the bridge would block the entire passage, or one car with a good spike strip could narrow it to where the suspect's choice would be a solid hit on the spikes or ramming the car.

So why didn't they?


The main problem with spikes is that they're made to slowly deflate the tires so the poor, misunderstood suspect won't lose control from a blowout. IMO, when you can get them out on the open road and clear a good "crash zone" beyond the strip, use something that will rip the rubber right off the wheels or just set up 2-3 officers to put as much buckshot into the front of the car as possible.

IF they can end the chase without endangering civilian lives, who really cares about what happens to the BG?


What ever happened to some of the military/border patrol experiments with better spike strip alternatives? ISTR one that was basically a steel cable net with barbed spikes; toss it in the car's path, it sticks in the front wheels and wraps them up so they can't turn. It stopped front wheel drive cars every time, and rear wheel drive cars were slowed to a jogging pace with no real control.

That sounds like it has promise.

Can't really see how this article applys to bicycling. After reading the article, it doesn't really seem that a law like that would do any good to discourage a criminal from running from the cops, especially if he has done it several times.
On another matter, I see cops driving way too fast in my area or anywhere in the US for just normal calls when they aren't "chasing down" someone. I've had cops pass me way too close when riding my bike because they were driving recklessly, which I don't see as right either.

So why didn't they?

Liability concerns, mainly; the suspect (or his next of kin) might sue them for using "excessive force."

Can't really see how this article applys to bicycling. After reading the article, it doesn't really seem that a law like that would do any good to discourage a criminal from running from the cops, especially if he has done it several times.

Well, if their definition of "vehicular flight" includes bicycles, it could make for some felons on college campuses.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-court-felony-20110610,0,3788573.story

After having been almost tee-boned by a cop in a pursuit....hearing this is good news.

I read the article and, while the intentions are good, I agree with Dissenting Assoc. Justices Kagan n' Bader-Ginsberg. The way it is presently written, it is ripe for a legal challenge in the U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, the jurisdiction that the case originated in.