Fifty Plus (50+) - One of the most impressive bikes I've seen

Was at the Smyrna (Atlanta side) trailhead of the Silver Comet Trail yesterday and, as I was loading up, saw a guy unloading this. Can't see how it would be possible to improve by much on this. The components were a combination of SRAM Red Line and Dura Ace. Not much metal on this rig.

The owner said he was a personal trainer with mostly pro athlete clients

Was looking at the photo a few minutes ago after taking it off the camera. Where is the real brake caliper?

I ride mostly solo in NW Florida and don't see a whole bunch of bikes but I spent several days in the Atlanta area riding the local trails where this was easily the most impressive bike I saw during the whole trip.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x229/TomD77/misc%20stuff/DSC3504t.jpg

Meh. TT bike. Heavy, stiff, mediocre handling. Rear caliper is under the chain stays. The popularity of triathlon has made TT bikes much more popular lately. Most sizable shops have a fairly wide selection.

Poser alert: Bars are way too high compared to the saddle height for a true TT aero riding position. See below:

Meh. TT bike. Heavy, stiff, mediocre handling.

Shows what I know, which ain't much! ;-)

Did you ask him how much he paid for it?

Nice bike and set up for a triathlete. Triathletes ride tempo (z3 heart rate / power) and typically use a more upright position so that they can transition better to the run. Bike racers go for better position and higher power.

Here is a pic of me on my Cervelo P2C at the 2009 Esparto time trial. My P2C is very light 16 pounds as shown with the Zipp / Trispoke. The bike handles fine and it is more about the rider than the bike. If you saw Fabian Cancellara in the prologue of the Tour de Suisse a couple of days ago, he just crushed a highly technical course at 45 mph. However, TT bikes are specialty bikes designed to go fast and there is a tradeoff between comfort and control. However, they are a blast to ride.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/2009%20Esparto%20TT/6386lowres.jpg

I think the term poser is a little harsh. Without knowing the owner it's impossible to say. There are plenty of triathletes and other TT riders who are old enough to no longer possess the kind of flexibilty of back and neck that an extreme drop involves, but they're no less committed athletes because of their aging bodies, or their bike setups. IMO.

Nice bike and set up for a triathlete. Triathletes ride tempo (z3 heart rate / power) and typically use a more upright position so that they can transition better to the run. Bike racers go for better position and higher power.

Here is a pic of me on my Cervelo P2C at the 2009 Esparto time trial. My P2C is very light 16 pounds as shown with the Zipp / Trispoke. The bike handles fine and it is more about the rider than the bike. If you saw Fabian Cancellara in the prologue of the Tour de Suisse a couple of days ago, he just crushed a highly technical course at 45 mph. However, TT bikes are specialty bikes designed to go fast and there is a tradeoff between comfort and control. However, they are a blast to ride.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/2009%20Esparto%20TT/6386lowres.jpg

The P2C is the bike I would like to have. It's a little less aggressive than the P3/4 and would probably be a bit more forgiving on the road. Your bike looks so nicely understated compared to the garish Felt above. I'd like to have Di2 on the TT bike of course. :thumb:

No gloves, Hermes? Is that a comfort or aero decision?

No gloves, Hermes? Is that a comfort or aero decision?

The air resistance of gloves cost a few watts and there is no need to cushion the hands or to protect the rider in a fall. More watts and less weight, what's not to love?:lol: Even if it's minimual it makes the rider more complete.;)

The P2C is the bike I would like to have. It's a little less aggressive than the P3/4 and would probably be a bit more forgiving on the road. Your bike looks so nicely understated compared to the garish Felt above. I'd like to have Di2 on the TT bike of course. :thumb:

One of my teammates has a new Felt TT bike in black and it looks totally cool in person. I liked the position of the rear brake. Well, Di2 would be nice to have but fortunately the D/A indexed bar shifters and front and rear D/A ders work really well and the bike shifts perfectly. Initially, I wanted a P3 but I did not want to spend the extra $1000 for the frame and the head tube was shorter which meant I would have needed a rising stem. In this race, a P3 may have reduced my time by 10 to 15 seconds which of course I would like to have but I was short about 4 minutes. :lol:


No gloves, Hermes? Is that a comfort or aero decision?

No gloves are for better aerodynamics. Standard road gloves have a lot of drag due to the rough material. They are intended to protect your hands in a crash which is far less likely in a TT. So the best is aero gloves (I just got some a couple of days ago). So a better choice, but for the fact it was hot, would have been a long sleeve skin suit with aero gloves.

Hey Hermes, I just have to ask a question. I notice on your bike where your knee is at 10 O'Clock and it's almost even with your steering tube. Isn't that kind of short, for the top tube. I know you want to be forward to get more rpm, but I didn't thing you would want to be that far forward. Just asking.

Hey Hermes, I just have to ask a question. I notice on your bike where your knee is at 10 O'Clock and it's almost even with your steering tube. Isn't that kind of short, for the top tube. I know you want to be forward to get more rpm, but I didn't thing you would want to be that far forward. Just asking.

George, You be the judge.

Dave Z

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/ZABRISKIE1_0.jpg

Fabian C

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/fabian-cancellara.jpg

I guess says it all.

I think the term poser is a little harsh. Without knowing the owner it's impossible to say. There are plenty of triathletes and other TT riders who are old enough to no longer possess the kind of flexibilty of back and neck that an extreme drop involves, but they're no less committed athletes because of their aging bodies, or their bike setups. IMO.

I would agree with the Poser Alert. This will not be the most comfortable bike to ride at any time. If used for Time trials then it would do the job better than a conventional set up bike but for A quick 20 mile ride it would be a killer. But this is not set up as a TT bike.

Of course it may have been that the rider was just on a settling down ride after a few modifications to set up. But as an every day ride- or just a good bike to do on normal rides- it is not the best one to have.

http://youtu.be/bqyyNrOIatU

I am really enjoying this thread!

Fabian Cancellara has been mentioned (be still my pattering heart), and the video above from the 2009 Tour de Suisse is him riding at his best. Awesome is the word!

I have a Felt B2, an old one, which I ride in triathlons. I've also ridden it on a few occasions just to ride and I do train on it when I need to. I totally agree that it's a bike that is NOT comfortable for day to day riding, and the handling is indeed twitchy. It handles better when I'm on the base bars (gripping the bottom bar by the brake levers) then it does when I'm on the aero bars. On the aero bars I've discovered that it is steered with your elbows, and the inputs need to be gentle.

It is NOT heavy. It's an aluminum frame, old school, carbon forks, a mixture of Dura-Ace, Ultegra and SRAM Red components, Zero-Lite wheels (which aren't light), but it only weighs 18 pounds.

It IS major fun! I average higher speeds on it than I do my road bike, because, yes, I'm in a more aero position and it takes less effort to sustain a higher speed than my road bike requires. I don't have the TT helmet or any slippery clothing, either.

My opinion on the (gorgeous) DA the OP posted the picture of was that it was set up for a "fun" casual ride. The bars were high (easy to change on the pivot stem the DA has), and the seat was low, plus there was a seat wedge bag on it. Price? $8 to $10K.

Hey Hermes, I just have to ask a question. I notice on your bike where your knee is at 10 O'Clock and it's almost even with your steering tube. Isn't that kind of short, for the top tube. I know you want to be forward to get more rpm, but I didn't thing you would want to be that far forward. Just asking.

If anything, Hermes could be even more forward and lower but I'm sure it's a compromise due to his advanced years. :p You can see both Z and Fabian have their elbows directly under their shoulders while Hermes' arms are a bit more extended.

If anything, Hermes could be even more forward and lower but I'm sure it's a compromise due to his advanced years. :p You can see both Z and Fabian have their elbows directly under their shoulders while Hermes' arms are a bit more extended.

You are soooo funny.:p I have suggested more rotated positions to my handlers :lol: and one of the issues with a more severe hip angle is breathing. Fabian and Dave have been doing this since they were juniors and they have lung / diaphragm adaptation to get enough air in the lungs. So I have been cautioned about going too low too fast such that better aero may not yield better times.

You will also notice that Dave and Fabian are sitting on the very nose of their saddle. My saddle has the required 5 cm setback to make it UCI legal. When I am back on the saddle, there is a greater angle in my arms. However, riding an 18 mile TT on the nose of the saddle is not fun.

What is ironic is that cyclists shift their weight forward to generate more power and the UCI cannot keep cyclists from riding on the nose of the saddle they just make it more uncomfortable.

The other thing that Dave and Fabian do very well is turtle their head. That is they lower their head and rotate their chin up to allow them to see while reducing their frontal area. My head it too high. I would have to look through my eyebrows if I had my head that low.:D

Fabian Cancellara has been mentioned (be still my pattering heart), and the video above from the 2009 Tour de Suisse is him riding at his best. Awesome is the word!

My wife avoids the family room when I'm watching cycling, but that's because she hasn't yet gotten a good look at Cancellara. And you gotta love someone who takes off, alone, and just rides everyone into the ground.

Cancellara.... And you gotta love someone who takes off, alone, and just rides everyone into the ground.

Oh, I do! :~D

I think the term poser is a little harsh. Without knowing the owner it's impossible to say. There are plenty of triathletes and other TT riders who are old enough to no longer possess the kind of flexibilty of back and neck that an extreme drop involves, but they're no less committed athletes because of their aging bodies, or their bike setups. IMO.

I concur. A friend of mine rides aero bars set up level with the saddle and he is definitely not a poser. He rides long and is pretty fast for 69 years old. His bike isn't a TT bike though.

I concur. A friend of mine rides aero bars set up level with the saddle and he is definitely not a poser. He rides long and is pretty fast for 69 years old. His bike isn't a TT bike though.
Aero bars are used by a lot over here on distance training rides on a "Normal" Road bike with normal set up. They keep the $10,000 bike for the TT's though.

Even the "Rich" Club racers over here that do have $10,000 bikes only use them for racing. Normal riding for them is done on the Pinarrelo Dogmas.( Need the green envy Emoticon here:innocent:)

http://youtu.be/bqyyNrOIatU

I am really enjoying this thread!

Fabian Cancellara has been mentioned (be still my pattering heart), and the video above from the 2009 Tour de Suisse is him riding at his best. Awesome is the word!


If that's a time trial, who's the guy in green? Is that the previous rider that he's catching up with? Some stranger just out for a ride?

Observation #1: If by some miracle, I could ride that fast, i'd kill myself trying to make those corners. Just put me on the Bonneville Salt Flats where I'd be safe.

Observation #2: Some of the local randos and ultraracers use time-trial bikes of some type for longer distance riding, but they're not necessarily set up like a TT bike for regular racing, either.

Hi,

Time trial bikes are about the coolest bikes out there IMHO. :) I am partial to time trial setups versus triathlon setups. The lower bars make them look extra cool. :D

One reason why I race time trials is to rationalize owning a bike like this ;) :

http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/image/134929686/original.jpg

This is me from a TT last fall with the bike in a slightly different configuration:

http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/image/135568046/large.jpg

Please forgive the tilted helmet. I guess I needed to tighten it up a bit. :o

I certainly train on my TT bike periodically but training on a TT bike at 23-26 MPH on a MUP is probably not the safest or wisest thing to do.

stapfam, my TT bike certainly did not costs $10,000. That's what I tell my wife and if I spent that much on mine, I certainly didn't do it all at once. :innocent:

About the seat height, the guy who owned it was fairly short, around 5'-7 or so and looked to be in his early 50's. Said he's been biking for decades.

Since free TT position advice is being doled here I thought it appropriate to put an image of me on my Franken Bike TT machine for comments. I asked my wife take a few images of me riding, but it was probably the wrong time as the Bachelorette was on, and she grudgingly complied. We went out onto the cul-de-sac in front of our house and I would ride past her as she attempted to take a picture. The result was some nice images of our mailbox, some of my front wheel, back wheel, backside and a few blurred images of a guy who must have been riding at 70 mph. A neighbor who came walking by, and after my wife explained what she was doing and how stupid it was, offered to take the images because she took a few photo classes in college and attempted to take a picture of me on the TT bike. Her results were similar to my wife's except the lone mailbox is blurry but there are two good images of our driveway and some trees.

Perhaps I'll get the image when my wife's sister and her husband visit on Thursday. Russ and I will ride road bikes and after the ride I'll ask him to take the image.:D

Cleave, I love your TT bike and the celeste green tape is a nice accent. It is one of the best looking TT bikes.

As a gal who appreciates and has a love for aesthetically pleasing (and cool looking!) machines (I just love airplanes), the thread is getting better and better! Cleave, your bike is gorgeous! Hermes, YOUR bike is gorgeous! AJ, I can't wait to see the photos of your bike. You guys look great on them, too. I won't post a picture of my dinosaur, it's too old, I'm too slow, and I don't look any where near as fit, fast or cool as you fellas do (Hermes - your wife looked fabulous in the shot you posted of her) - and I mean that with all due respect!

Once again, loving this thread!

See, now this how N+1 gets momentum. I now need a TT bike, so I can be cool (and impress Sara). :thumb:

:thumb:

AzT, I am impressed!

Since free TT position advice is being doled here I thought it appropriate to put an image of me on my Franken Bike TT machine for comments. I asked my wife take a few images of me riding, but it was probably the wrong time as the Bachelorette was on, and she grudgingly complied. We went out onto the cul-de-sac in front of our house and I would ride past her as she attempted to take a picture. The result was some nice images of our mailbox, some of my front wheel, back wheel, backside and a few blurred images of a guy who must have been riding at 70 mph. A neighbor who came walking by, and after my wife explained what she was doing and how stupid it was, offered to take the images because she took a few photo classes in college and attempted to take a picture of me on the TT bike. Her results were similar to my wife's except the lone mailbox is blurry but there are two good images of our driveway and some trees.

Perhaps I'll get the image when my wife's sister and her husband visit on Thursday. Russ and I will ride road bikes and after the ride I'll ask him to take the image.:D

AJ my wife must have gone to the same class as your wife LOL.

Good looking ride you have there Cleave.

Here are a couple of pics of my wife's TT and pursuit bikes.

Cervelo P3 Track

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/2011%20March%2019%20LAVRA/MEA2Kpursuit.jpg

Obea Ordu TT bike

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/Orbea%20Ordu/1578hires.jpg

Here are a couple of pics of my wife's TT and pursuit bikes.

Cervelo P3 Track


Obea Ordu TT bike


Good heavens! Those are beautiful machines, Hermes. The pictures convey what a powerful rider she is, too. Impressed? Oh, am I!

Here is another pic of Cleave that I took at LAV on his track Bianchi. One cannot get too much celeste green.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/CleaveLAVRA500mTT.jpg

AZT, Do you want one yet?:D

AJ, I am wondering if the failed attempt at a pic is a problem with the photographer or the subject. You know it is hard being a poseur.:D

It is NOT heavy. It's an aluminum frame, old school, carbon forks, a mixture of Dura-Ace, Ultegra and SRAM Red components, Zero-Lite wheels (which aren't light), but it only weighs 18 pounds.

Wow! I would have thought that one of those bikes would weigh a lot less than that. My Defy 2 is just over 18 lbs without my seat bag and pedals. It's also aluminum frame with carbon fork and seat post. It has a Tiagra triple drive train and Mavic CPX22 rims with Formula hubs and stainless steel spokes.

Wow! I would have thought that one of those bikes would weigh a lot less than that. My Defy 2 is just over 18 lbs without my seat bag and pedals. It's also aluminum frame with carbon fork and seat post. It has a Tiagra triple drive train and Mavic CPX22 rims with Formula hubs and stainless steel spokes.

This is the as new configuration: http://www.bikepedia.com/Quickbike/BikeSpecs.aspx?Year=2004&Brand=Felt&Model=B2&Type=bike

It was speced to weigh 18.6 pounds in "as delivered" form. Mine has been changed quite significantly over the stock bike, and it may well weigh more than 18 pounds. I don't think it weighs less! I'd bet the current bikes, especially the ones owned by the folks on this thread, weigh a lot less than my seven year old bike does.

I wasn't going to post a picture of it, but here it is. It was set up for a triathlon in this photo. Since then I've lowered the handlebars, changed the saddle to a Bontranger tri saddle, and have gotten rid of the seat post bottle cage, opting for a conventional cage on the frame. It's a little bike, 50cm, 650c wheels. It's big on fun, though!

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h470/sarals/B2.jpg

This has been a really interesting thread - I learned a lot. I was going to comment on the impossibly uncomfortable positions of the pictured riders on their seats when at full throttle but Hermes explained it before I got a chance to ask why they did this. OK, comfort doesn't even make the list of criteria for TTs. It's just sooooooooo far removed from my old-school road biking mentality. Really advanced machines and technique. Crazy, impractical, and darned gorgeous. Great thread!

AJ, I am wondering if the failed attempt at a pic is a problem with the photographer or the subject. You know it is hard being a poseur.:D

It must be me, the poseur, it's always my fault.:D Here is the best shot.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/sru75/IMG_2582-1.jpg

It must be me, the poseur, it's always my fault.:D Here is the best shot.

I'd say you were going at least 70, AJ!

It must be me, the poseur, it's always my fault.:D Here is the best shot.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/sru75/IMG_2582-1.jpg

Your position looks good just a little blurry.:D

I'd say you were going at least 70, AJ!

Let's not exagerate.:lol: It was really about 18 mph.

http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr256/sru75/IMG_2581.jpg

Your position looks good just a little blurry.:D

The mailbox and our front door look normal, the fuzzy picture adds at least 10 - 15 lbs on me.:)

I... it's always my fault.:D
Sounds like the key to a successful marriage!:D

It must be me, the poseur, it's always my fault.:D Here is the best shot.

I'm not gonna say it isn't your blazing speed, but I'm guessing the camera played a part as well. It looks like a 'point and shoot' camera image, and there are two characteristics of point and sheet cameras that make action shots difficult:

A. There can be a delay between the instant you push the shutter release and when the picture is actually taken, resulting in images of mailboxes but no cyclist.

B. Controlling the shutter speed isn't always possible, or, if it is, it isn't clear to the photographer how to do that (or why they should)

You want a minimum of say 1/250th of a sec for a shot like that, depending on whether you want the wheels to blur or not. With a slower shutter speed, you would need to pan the camera, following the bike as it goes past, but that is a skill that must be trained up. Looks like a cloudy day, so the camera picked too slow a shutter speed for what you were doing.

The other way to freeze the action is by using flash. Automatic modes turn that off in daylight, but you can usually turn it back on. That would require being close enough for the flash to be stronger than the daylight - not possible with most point and shoots.

End of photography 101 lecture.

I'm not gonna say it isn't your blazing speed, but I'm guessing the camera played a part as well. It looks like a 'point and shoot' camera image, and there are two characteristics of point and sheet cameras that make action shots difficult:

A. There can be a delay between the instant you push the shutter release and when the picture is actually taken, resulting in images of mailboxes but no cyclist.

B. Controlling the shutter speed isn't always possible, or, if it is, it isn't clear to the photographer how to do that (or why they should)

You want a minimum of say 1/250th of a sec for a shot like that, depending on whether you want the wheels to blur or not. With a slower shutter speed, you would need to pan the camera, following the bike as it goes past, but that is a skill that must be trained up. Looks like a cloudy day, so the camera picked too slow a shutter speed for what you were doing.

The other way to freeze the action is by using flash. Automatic modes turn that off in daylight, but you can usually turn it back on. That would require being close enough for the flash to be stronger than the daylight - not possible with most point and shoots.

End of photography 101 lecture.

You are correct on all points of "point and shoot 101". When I first asked for assistance the sun was out and the rider would have been in the sun on the cloudless day. The photographer was just finishing up the dinner dishes and needed to call her sister, because if she didn't call here now, she might forget. I then went out and rode a 1 hr recovery ride. Upon my return the conversation with her sister was still ongoing. After doing some bike maintenance I went in to once again see if it was a good time to take the pictures and was told it was but I had to wait for a commercial as the Bachelorette was on. We have a DVR but it would just kill the moment to suspend the drama until the producers allow. When we finally got outside my wife was surprised that we couldn't take the shot in the driveway and then needed to go back inside to get shoes on. After a few minutes she came out and said that she had to feed the dog, water a plant that was wilted and to fix her hair since she spent the day gardening. See how this is going? Once on the street it was getting dusk and I knew the prospect of getting a good image was bleak. I tried to explain “following the rider” but in the moment that seemed too complicated and I just said to "do your best, remember how your took pictures of our boys running track?”. In retrospect, she didn’t do a bang-up job back then.:lol:

You are correct on all points of "point and shoot 101". When I first asked for assistance the sun was out and the rider would have been in the sun on the cloudless day. The photographer was just finishing up the dinner dishes and needed to call her sister, because if she didn't call here now, she might forget. I then went out and rode a 1 hr recovery ride. Upon my return the conversation with her sister was still ongoing. After doing some bike maintenance I went in to once again see if it was a good time to take the pictures and was told it was but I had to wait for a commercial as the Bachelorette was on. We have a DVR but it would just kill the moment to suspend the drama until the producers allow. When we finally got outside my wife was surprised that we couldn't take the shot in the driveway and then needed to go back inside to get shoes on. After a few minutes she came out and said that she had to feed the dog, water a plant that was wilted and to fix her hair since she spent the day gardening. See how this is going? Once on the street it was getting dusk and I knew the prospect of getting a good image was bleak. I tried to explain “following the rider” but in the moment that seemed too complicated and I just said to "do your best, remember how your took pictures of our boys running track?”. In retrospect, she didn’t do a bang-up job back then.:lol:

So it was all your fault.:roflmao2::D:roflmao2:

I'd say AJ understands his role in the relationship perfectly!

I'm not gonna say it isn't your blazing speed, but I'm guessing the camera played a part as well. It looks like a 'point and shoot' camera image, and there are two characteristics of point and sheet cameras that make action shots difficult:



Even Basic Cameras can be used but it can be a bit Hit and Miss. Took this Pic at the Tour of Britain TT in 2007

206531

And yes he did hold the yellow jersey after that 1st day. The rest of the tour went up and down a bit.

But on TT bikes-- Our Local club is into TT's in a big way. There are some members that have the special TT bikes but they can be expensive. The two regular top 5 runners though Have not spent fortunes on their bikes- well maybe over the years but their bikes are basic. The TTs are held on normal roads that are not closed and they have to handle pretty well and go up hills. Twisty courses for 20 to 56 miles and on our local back roads.

206535 206536

The Blue one belongs to the local champion and is a TT specific bike- The Silver one is no3 in the Club and he just has an old TCR Frame built with light parts and TT bar set up.

And just to prove that any bike can compete in TTs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNSCuCDJTA0

My First and definitely my LAST TT

And attached are a few other members bikes- Some did cost a fortune and some did not.

there is no need to cushion the hands or to protect the rider in a fall.

Tell that to Michael Rasmussen!

You are correct on all points of "point and shoot 101". When I first asked for assistance the sun was out and the rider would have been in the sun on the cloudless day. The photographer was just finishing up the dinner dishes and needed to call her sister, because if she didn't call here now, she might forget. I then went out and rode a 1 hr recovery ride. Upon my return the conversation with her sister was still ongoing. After doing some bike maintenance I went in to once again see if it was a good time to take the pictures and was told it was but I had to wait for a commercial as the Bachelorette was on. We have a DVR but it would just kill the moment to suspend the drama until the producers allow. When we finally got outside my wife was surprised that we couldn't take the shot in the driveway and then needed to go back inside to get shoes on. After a few minutes she came out and said that she had to feed the dog, water a plant that was wilted and to fix her hair since she spent the day gardening. See how this is going? Once on the street it was getting dusk and I knew the prospect of getting a good image was bleak. I tried to explain “following the rider” but in the moment that seemed too complicated and I just said to "do your best, remember how your took pictures of our boys running track?”. In retrospect, she didn’t do a bang-up job back then.:lol:

Alle Jet, I think you need to make the above into an Xtranormal animated movie to complement your N+1 movie. :lol: