Advocacy & Safety - preventing bicycle/car accidents

Uncontroversial statement: almost all bicycle/car accidents are caused by the driver not being aware of the cyclist.

Controversial theory: most bicycle/car accidents can be prevented by the cyclist *never assuming* that any driver can see him.

The most important one, I think, is: never start into a 4-way stop intersection if there is a driver waiting to go across, even if you think they are looking at you.

So you think it's going to make you safer to just always yield your right of way, even when it's legally yours? If that's what you mean, I disagree. Besides being incredibly inefficient and submissive (contributing to drivers' superiority complexes over us), that would breed a lot of confusion. People expect you to go when you have the right-of-way, and when you don't, that leads to an uncertain situation. And uncertainty leads to danger, because it makes people behave unpredictably. The rules of the road exist for a reason: to make things more predictable, and therefore safer. It's true that some drivers (and cyclists) don't obey them, and you have to constantly be on the lookout for that. It does not follow that you're making yourself safer by just submitting your ROW to motorists whenever they're near you and interacting with you. You're messing up the orderly operation of the roads, too, if you do that, even though you're doing so in a passive way rather than an active way. As an example, I hate it when motorists who clearly have the right-of-way try to wave me through intersections thinking that they're being "nice". I usually just wave them off and sit there waiting for them to properly take their turn, because I've learned that it's not safe to take their "advice". Oftentimes, they won't be watching everything else that's happening, and their "courtesy" confuses other drivers who may then hit you. For example, an impatient driver behind them may try to go around them, or someone may go from a different direction because they didn't see the wave and they don't know why the driver isn't taking their turn properly.

The fact is, you do have to trust that other drivers will see you to some degree whenever you bike on a public road. It is not practically possible to "bike like you're invisible" in areas that have any degree of traffic. So, the best thing you can do is ride predictably and lawfully, so that you don't surprise them.

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding you about what you mean.

I disagree about weighing submissiveness or superiority complexes in the same equation as safety. On the other hand your point about predictability is well taken.


I hate it when motorists who clearly have the right-of-way try to wave me through intersections thinking that they're being "nice". I usually just wave them off and sit there waiting for them to properly take their turn, because I've learned that it's not safe to take their "advice".

I agree about this, in fact it's exactly what I'm talking about.

I should modify my "controversial theory": most bicycle/car accidents can be avoided by the cyclist never taking any action that is predicated on the belief that a driver can see him (such as entering an intersection out of turn).

I disagree about weighing submissiveness or superiority complexes in the same equation as safety. On the other hand your point about predictability is well taken.


I'm not saying they should directly be weighed against each other, in that obviously I think your immediate goal when riding should be to keep yourself safe. Obviously, if someone is about to hit you, you do whatever you need to do in order to avoid that. What I was trying to get at is that "cyclist inferiority syndrome" contributes to a global deterioration in safety for cyclists, because it convinces motorists that we are second-class road users and that staying safe on the road is entirely OUR responsibility, and not at all theirs as well. Drivers need to understand that cyclists may need to take the lane at times for their own safety, for example, and all the cyclists who ride sidewalks or hug the curb even when it's not safe convince drivers that they don't need to worry about looking for us or expect to see us in the "car lane". In other words, driver behavior towards us changes over time because they get used to not sharing the road with cyclists. But I agree that that's a separate issue from IMMEDIATE safety.



I agree about this, in fact it's exactly what I'm talking about.

I should modify my "controversial theory": most bicycle/car accidents can be avoided by the cyclist never taking any action that is predicated on the belief that a driver can see him (such as entering an intersection out of turn).But virtually everything you do on the road in traffic is predicated on the belief that drivers can see you, to some degree or another. Even just traveling in a straight line down the road without getting hit from behind is predicated on the idea that motorists can see you and won't drift into the bike lane or shoulder. You can't eliminate all reliance on other people's competence if you're going to interact with them, so the best you can do is minimize the risk. You ride defensively and according to the rules of the road, and you try to predict emerging dangerous situations before they occur. You can't control every stupid thing someone might do, though, unless you want to stick to MUPs in the park. And there you get to deal with the dog walkers and iPod zombies, who may actually be worse.

I keep the idea that motorists don't see me in the back of my mind. Unfortunately this doesn't really save you in many situations

The most important one, I think, is: never start into a 4-way stop intersection if there is a driver waiting to go across, even if you think they are looking at you.

But did I stop before the driver? Is it my turn? Or are you talking about not proceeding through when it's the car's right of way?

In a busy city, if you're only proceeding through a 4-way when there are no other cars................you'll be waiting there all day.

I do everything I'm allowed to do on the roads, which relies a lot on drivers seeing me. Having said that, a cyclist always needs to be careful and anticipate bad driving.

After a while, you can recognize warning signs of drivers that change lanes without signaling etc...

bosh. stay visible and take the right of way if yielded to you at 4 way stops.

I've long ago stopped playing the righteous cyclist at the 4 ways. if a motorist is waving you thru or you otherwise were first to proceed, proceed when you have established right of way.

you need to stay heads up, and much more heads up in my experience in larger intersections where clear right of way may not be yours and there are potential turning conflicts with motorists approaching the intersection at the same time you are, from any direction.

You know, I admit this was a dumb thread starter. I've just been thinking more about trying not to put myself into situations where everything's fine if the driver sees me and I get killed if the driver doesn't see me. I'm on country roads 150 miles a week and I am starting to get this weird feeling that I am on borrowed time.

it's not a dumb thread stater.

Do you already take the proactive steps of running daytime visible safety lights, wearing high viz clothes, and using a mirror coupled to riding's best practices for country roads?

I figure all can easily see me because I make it so with lights, clothing, and positioning. Then I keep an eye on 'em and prepare for times they don't. I really can't recall a "not being seen" incident.

How you ride is important. If you “pop out” in front of drivers they’ll probably still see you, but it will be too late. I’ve done that once. :o

Uncontroversial statement: almost all bicycle/car accidents are caused by the driver not being aware of the cyclist.

incorrect opening premise...no reason to read further

I try to do my best to stay alert to the traffic around me, but sometimes I feel like drivers totally disregard my presence.

Uncontroversial statement: almost all bicycle/car accidents are caused by the driver not being aware of the cyclist..
Really?

Uncontroversial statement: almost all bicycle/car accidents are caused by the driver not being aware of the cyclist.

Controversial theory: most bicycle/car accidents can be prevented by the cyclist *never assuming* that any driver can see him.

The most important one, I think, is: never start into a 4-way stop intersection if there is a driver waiting to go across, even if you think they are looking at you.

Statistically, using the mid-70s Cross-Fisher data and the 1998 Moritz study, car/bike collisions are 50/50 motorist's fault vs. cyclist's fault. There's just about as many JACs out there on the streets as there are JAMs.

bosh. stay visible and take the right of way if yielded to you at 4 way stops.

I've long ago stopped playing the righteous cyclist at the 4 ways. if a motorist is waving you thru or you otherwise were first to proceed, proceed when you have established right of way.

you need to stay heads up, and much more heads up in my experience in larger intersections where clear right of way may not be yours and there are potential turning conflicts with motorists approaching the intersection at the same time you are, from any direction.

I don't for the most part disagree with this, but the reason I do not usually take the ROW when it is incorrectly yielded to me is not because I'm trying to be righteous. It's because I'm trying to be safe and predictable, to ALL drivers, and not just the one that waved me through. That person may have the best of intentions, but their attention at that moment is focused on me and not other cars. Someone else may not expect me to go out of turn, because they didn't see the wave. Sometimes other cars will go around them from behind, because they can't see why they're stopped. Or cars from other directions will take their hesitance as an opportunity to go out of turn themselves. It's probably reasonably safe to go in these situations if there are no other vehicles around, but otherwise I think it's asking for trouble. I've had more than one close call caused by exactly that type of unpredictability.

Statistically, using the mid-70s Cross-Fisher data and the 1998 Moritz study, car/bike collisions are 50/50 motorist's fault vs. cyclist's fault. There's just about as many JACs out there on the streets as there are JAMs.

I don't know about the quality of the data in those specific studies, but it seems to me like it would be very hard to collect high quality datasets on the phenomenon of cyclist-motorist crashes. For one thing, there is a huge reporting bias against reporting minor incidents to the police, and I would bet that many of those are motorist-caused. In many cases, all a motorist has to do in order to escape all blame for an incident is pull a hit and run and drive off, because the cyclist will often not have time to get their license plate number. And incidents in which the motorist is at fault would have a stronger incentive towards hit-and-run, which would bias the reporting against cyclists. For another, police officers may be biased against cyclists in assigning blame (I know we've read about many incidents where that was the case), so depending on their sources and methodology that kind of data could be questionable too. And finally, at least one big thing has changed since the 70's: the prevalence of mobile phone use while driving (other things that have changed are the explosion in popularity of SUVs, which have poorer side and rear visibility, and an increase in traffic). So I wouldn't say this is necessarily wrong, but I question the certainty with which figures can be reported and generalized.

Uncontroversial statement: almost all bicycle/car accidents are caused by the driver not being aware of the cyclist.

Controversial theory: most bicycle/car accidents can be prevented by the cyclist *never assuming* that any driver can see him.

The most important one, I think, is: never start into a 4-way stop intersection if there is a driver waiting to go across, even if you think they are looking at you.


Anecdotal counter-proposal: Drivers are often aware of the cyclist, but simply don't care. There have been a noticeable number of occasions, for example, where I ( the yellow-bedecked, blinky-flashing Fred we all love to hate ) have stopped at an intersection, had the right of way, made eye contact with the drivers, including ones behind me, gotten a nod in return... and had them right hook or blow in front of me. Perhaps some of them thought that even when I was in front of them, had taken the lane, and was obviously going straight, they had an intrinsic and legal right to go around me. On the left.

Anecdotal counter-proposal: Drivers are often aware of the cyclist, but simply don't care. There have been a noticeable number of occasions, for example, where I ( the yellow-bedecked, blinky-flashing Fred we all love to hate ) have stopped at an intersection, had the right of way, made eye contact with the drivers, including ones behind me, gotten a nod in return... and had them right hook or blow in front of me. Perhaps some of them thought that even when I was in front of them, had taken the lane, and was obviously going straight, they had an intrinsic and legal right to go around me. On the left.

That may be the case for some of them, but for many I think it's just incompetence. They just don't think you're worth paying much attention to, and so they stop thinking about you as soon as they pass. Out of sight, out of mind. A lot of motorists really suck at driving, and use lazy shortcuts in their driving instead of actually paying attention or being careful. They'll assume, for example, that things that are behind them are not going to affect them. Or they categorize bicycles and pedestrians as stationary objects in their minds. The cell phone epidemic doesn't help with any of this, obviously, since it divides their attention even more and makes it harder for them to pay attention to everything around them.

That may be the case for some of them, but for many I think it's just incompetence. They just don't think you're worth paying much attention to, and so they stop thinking about you as soon as they pass. Out of sight, out of mind. A lot of motorists really suck at driving, and use lazy shortcuts in their driving instead of actually paying attention or being careful. They'll assume, for example, that things that are behind them are not going to affect them. Or they categorize bicycles and pedestrians as stationary objects in their minds. The cell phone epidemic doesn't help with any of this, obviously, since it divides their attention even more and makes it harder for them to pay attention to everything around them.

Agreed, think of that basketball/gorilla video where most people watching the video don't see the gorilla because they're busy counting how many times whichever group is passing the ball back and forth. The brain tends to filters things out that aren't the primary focus.

Really? You are saying I'm only safe if I give up my right-of-way at a 4 way stop sign?

Here's an idea. If you really think that riding a bicycle within the limits of the law is that dangerous and causes car/bicycle collisions, do yourself a favor. You can avoid 100% of car/bicycle collisions by not riding your bike. That will leave just a little more room for those of us who actually realize that riding responsibly within the limits of the law is actually one of the safest activities we participate in. Safer than walking, safer than showering and for some of us, safer than our chosen carrers.

Let's not start more safety over-kill.

Just a random tip:

Always look at the cars front wheels when pulling up next to them. They can give you a few seconds of advanced notice on the cars intentions.

Yes I read the back and forth on the intersection comment. Not looking to get in a debate - just leaving a tip. Cheers!

Always look at the cars front wheels when pulling up next to them.
Better yet don't pull up next to them if it is a place a driver can turn into your path.

Here's an idea. If you really think that riding a bicycle within the limits of the law is that dangerous and causes car/bicycle collisions, do yourself a favor. You can avoid 100% of car/bicycle collisions by not riding your bike. That will leave just a little more room for those of us who actually realize that riding responsibly within the limits of the law is actually one of the safest activities we participate in. Safer than walking, safer than showering and for some of us, safer than our chosen carrers.

Let's not start more safety over-kill.

Will you ever tire of tossing out this useless statement of showering being more dangerous than cycling, Hippie? Does exposure count for anything in your world? I ask because many people take hundreds of showers a year, while very few of them bike for thousands of miles in busy and/or high speed traffic. So yeah, if you're only looking at total injury/death counts, of course taking a shower may be higher. This doesn't mean it carries more risk.

To be clear, I too consider cycling to be a relatively safe activity, but to say it is safer than taking a shower is quite misleading.

safer than sleeping

Uncontroversial statement: almost all bicycle/car accidents are caused by the driver not being aware of the cyclist.Extremely controversial statement, especially among drivers.


Controversial theory: most bicycle/car accidents can be prevented by the cyclist *never assuming* that any driver can see him. "Riding as if you were invisible". Controversial -- probably because it doesn't work. For starters, it pretty much precludes anything involving proper lane positioning -- if you're invisible, every single driver that wants to be where you are will run you over, so you can't be on the road at all.

Fortunately, in the real world, you're pretty far from invisible.


The most important one, I think, is: never start into a 4-way stop intersection if there is a driver waiting to go across, even if you think they are looking at you.So you just sit there looking at them until they go? No. Do be aware that he might go at any time, but if it's your turn, take it.

These incidents should not be called accidents, they are crashes.