Framebuilders - Finally bit the bullet

I've been singing the same old song as a lot of people IMHO...one day I'm going to build my own frame...yada yada. Well to make a long story short....instead of just sitting on the toilet I finally shat. lol. I know your first frame is usually the worst and was going to just use the basic Nova Chromo OS tubing kit but went with something decent. I went with the Dedaacciai Zero Replica tube set. Then Long Chen long point lugs and Breezer style dropouts. I'll be taking photos along the way and have my trusty Paternek manual and some videos and the help of one fellow John Thompson just a few minutes down the road literally. Wish me luck!
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1424.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1425.jpg

Yay!

Go for it!

good luck :)

Dang...I used the fit calculator on the Competitive Cyclist's website which was extremely helpful with videos on how to and what to measure exactly. Normally I ride a 52cm frame and it told me a seat tube of 46.6-47.1cm and top tube of 54.1-54.5. I tried the fit calculator on Strawberry's website and it gave me almost the same seat tube but the top tube was 47.2. Wow that seem a bit on the shorter side. All of the same info put in each fit calculator but why so much of a difference? This was for the Competitive fit on their chart and not the Eddy or French fit.

The Competitive's measurements seem more correct so time to start measuring and cutting my top and seat tubes tomorrow! Then start cleaning up the lugs/bb. It's midnight and want to run out into the garage and get to work but my neighbors still like me.

Nice, keep us posted. It's good that you have skill close by to tap into.

Nice, keep us posted. It's good that you have skill close by to tap into.Since the measurements for the top tube doesn't seem kind of iffy I'll hold off on cutting everything. So in the mean time I was filing and doing some work on the lugs. Everything I touch now gets a touch of drillium if I able to. lol. So I felt why not with my first frame. Now I'm not going overboard and having look like swiss cheese but tastefully done. I was going to have the a series of holes drilled out around the headtube section of the head tube lugs but felt it might of been too much. I was just trying to take of the edge on all of the corners except the sections that will get reamed at the end. I had all the lugs have two hole on the outer section of main triangle and then one single hole in the inside. One reason was one of the lugs I wasn't able to get my counterbore bit all the way in and had to center one of the holes and didn't leave enough room for a second. So I just made it matching for all of the rest of the lugs.

Here's where I am so far as I started this morning. Only thing I have left to do is the bottom bracket.
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1472.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1471.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1470.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1469.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1468.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1467.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1466.jpg



Let me know if there's anything else I need to do or not to do. I'm just doing what I learned from watching some youtube videos and just things that I've seen online so this is totally on a whim.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1478.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1477.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1476.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1475.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1474.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1473.jpg

Lugs with square edges look much better, and are easier to cleanup if your brazing isn't spot on. Also, those counterbored holes will make the paint look too thick when everything is finished.

Well they say your first frame should usually be thrown away as it's the worst. There's aways the next frame do something different on and leave something things the way they are. You don't learn or know if you don't ask.

Don't rush it- your first frame need not be a tosser. If you haven't brazed the tubes together spend as much time as you want cleaning up those lugs. It's much easier to do it before they are all stuck together.

If you haven't already, start brazing some scrap tubing together in lap joints. You will want to have some practice before you move straight to the bike stuff if for no other reasons then the time invested.

Good luck!

I have to order my flux as no place locally carries what I suggested to use(gasflux type B paste). Exactly what am I cleaning up on the lugs? I tried taking down all of the casting marks and the hard edges. What does a finished cleaned up lug look like to something not touched yet? I like the smooth edge compared to something smooth as my Raleigh Competition has really hard lines on the Capella lugs and it just looks like they just grabbed a set and tossed some tubes on it. It's a Carlton built frame also. Not saying that Carlton was super top notch they kicked out some pretty good stuff.

I think "most" prefer square/crisp edges on the lugs and any holes or other embellishments.
You intend to try a different aesthetic approach. No harm no foul.
I tend to agree with the previous posters comment on the counterbored holes, if nothing else I personally would clean up the ragged edge inside them so the shoreline is crisp. Depending on your heat control you may also run into issues cooking things where they are that thinned out.

Squaring the shorelines befo brazing will make for keeping those edges crisp while brazing and help in cleaning them up should you need to file later. If you prefer the British rounded thinning (which can look awesome) consider thinning/ rounding the edges as a last cosmetic step after the brazing clean up.

Here is an example from a Cooper that was in for a recent repair:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5187/5841027590_30e5829a49.jpg

Contrast that to a lug with square edges:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4627179378_778370dfea.jpg

And squared edges and thinning:
http://www.winterbicycles.com/wp-content/gallery/stada-classico/stradaclassico05.jpg

These are largely aesthetic touches, but having a square edge to run a file next to will help prevent undercutting both the tube and lug if you try to clean up along a rounded shoulder.

Overflowing the lug will also possibly fill in the countersink, but that is better then under filling in an attempt to save the shore lines.

I recommend keeping the cosmetic lug prep to a minimum on number one- you want a good slip fit on the inside and a shoreline prepped to you standard:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/4839545805_22a7bb8636.jpg

It's clarification like this that helps out understanding what I'm actually supposed to be filing or doing to the lugs. Thanks a lot fellas.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1519.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1518.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1517.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1523.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1522.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1521.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1520.jpg
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m609/FoxValleyVintageVelo/DSCF1516.jpg

As an aspiring first time frame builder this thread is full of great advice and really nice pictorial documentation. Please Keep up the Updates!! This is great!!

you should try your hand at it instead of just reading about it. Nova has been having some good specials recently

I wish I would of ordered my kit like a month or two earlier cause they had some complete frame kits for a really cheap...tubes, cast lugs, braze ons for under 200 if I recall.

Sweet! This should be fun to watch. I've always thought building my own bike would be fun, but I've got a long way to go in the "skills" department.

you should try your hand at it instead of just reading about it. Nova has been having some good specials recently

I am in the process of doing so! Gonna order Patarek's Book and probably the DVD's, and I'm trying to decide which torch to get.

Did you download the free version of Patarek or Talbots book?

I found this page regarding Paterek's book http://www.iinet.com/~tpaterek/tpmanual.htm (http://www.iinet.com/%7Etpaterek/tpmanual.htm) and read the excerpts from the chapters but if you've got links to the early version or the Talbots one, I'd love to check em out. :)

**edit**

I found the correct link for the old Paterek Manual http://www.timpaterek.com/paterek.pdf

Gonna take your advice and order That Zero Replica tubeset while its on sale over at Nova.

Here's the Talbot manual. These a bit difficult to find and pricey when you do.
http://bhovey.com/Masi/Scans/Talbot/index.htm#1

Your BB miters are more than a little rough.

I agree with what others have said about the shoreline and countersinks. Then again, I'm a keep it simple kind of guy.

Other than that, having been there recently, there's no substitute for just jumping in and getting your first build started.

Pete

This will be my just jumping in first build. I'll be attending Doug Fattic's three week course next month so there'll be difference...I hope on my next build and the rest to follow. lol.

On a side note folks who used just a MAPP air setup. What rod did or are you using if your still running MAPP/air? There was a bit of confusion and was told get to a low fuming bronze rod thinking I was using MAPP with Oxygen. Whoops!

I was able to grab the second to last spot that he had available for this summer let alone this year. Whoo hoo!

Just wait if you're in his class next month.
If you can not wait.
Please,please don't do this with Mapp-Air.
It's highly likely you'll just end up with nasty habits for Doug and Herbie to try and undo.

Gonna take your advice and order That Zero Replica tubeset while its on sale over at Nova.

I am also at the stage of biting my first bullet. Thus far, I have practiced brazing and been sucessfully with brazing frame repairs and converted an old road frame into a CX bike so I am eager to try a full build now. I ordered the NOVA may special for a Dedacciaa COM oversize 12.5 tubeset and cast lugs and BB ($94 total), seems like an awsome price for an introductory frameset. I promptly recieved my order and am quite impressed with the appearance of the lugs& BB. I am still deciding on geometry but plan to start on building my frame soon too. I had only mediocre results with using local sourced welding shop flux and brass rod so for this frame I order brazage flux and LFB rod from cycle design. I dont have a jig but I realized that the big contractor size tablesaw I have from woodworking has a large flat precision ground work surface that I should be able to use for laying out the frame horizontally.

AFAIK- the zero replica tubes are a re-named version of the SAT 14.5 tubeset, heat treated and thinner walled version of same metallurgy used in the COM12.5 tubeset.
Nova still has the standard size COM 12.5 tube+lug special listed on thier website;
http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/DEDA-COM-RD-TS-W-LUGS-and-BB.html

I thought that this deal dissapeared from they site at end of May but then it recently showed back up. They show inventory as currently out of stock but it might be worth a call to see if they have any 12.5 tubesets left or are getting any more in. At half the price of the zero uno package deal it is considerably less expensive and the slightly thicker tube walls and non-heat treated hardness are probably a bit more forgiving for a first time builder. Most of their other monthly specials for June are for aluminum but you might just wait until July to see what specials they offer next month for brazed steel. Thier NOVA house brand CrMo tube sets would also be a good first time builder tubeset and often go an monthly specials with lugs.

I just need to order kit before I leave as my class starts next month on the 11th. So not much time to wait or wait till next month and hope the specials are good and get it in time before I leave. Plus it doesn't make sense to go there with my tubes already cut and if my measurements aren't correct then I'm stuck building a frame with the wrong dimensions. I'll just bring a brand new kit to work with.

I just need to order kit before I leave as my class starts next month on the 11th. So not much time to wait or wait till next month and hope the specials are good and get it in time before I leave. Plus it doesn't make sense to go there with my tubes already cut and if my measurements aren't correct then I'm stuck building a frame with the wrong dimensions. I'll just bring a brand new kit to work with.

Just a thought- You could get a Nova OS CrMo tubeset and use the softer, thicker (more forgiving) tubes along with the road lugs that you already are working on to build your first frame in your class. Save your nice light Deda Zero uno replica tubeset to build up later into a keeper frame once you have your brazing skills and equipment worked out.

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/NOVA-OS-ROAD-HD-TUBESET-969-DT-AND-TT.html

Yeah Doug said to get something not heat treated or thin walled so that kind of rules out that tube kit. lol.

Before ordering the Nova CrMo tubes for your existing OS lugs, I would give them a call and see if they can put together some variant of the COM 12.5 special with lugs&BB that they show as out of stock. It is basically like buying the lugs and getting the tubes for free. They still show inventory on many of the individual COM 12.5 tubes so probably do have most of it available, just beg them to sub in thier CrMo for anything they cannot supply with COM12.5 (like they are already doing for the ST in the kit). Their fork kit is also a pretty good deal for this month if you plan on forgoing plastic and building your own fork.

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-...DT-AND-TT.html (http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/NOVA-OS-ROAD-HD-TUBESET-969-DT-AND-TT.html)

Hey Henry, I’ve been inundated with requests for class information since I got back from Ukraine a few days ago. You got the last place for the summer class and there are a couple of guys that hope you won’t make it so they can come instead. I’ve got one place left this year in my November class.

Be sure and contract me as soon as possible so we can make sure you have the right materials for class. You won’t be making a tosser that’s for sure. That’s part of the trial and error guy’s method of education. You will leave class with a frame that is designed to your bicycle position and type of riding you do, will be less than 1mm out of alignment, be fully brazed without gaps, voids or overheated. The nanno second you start to make a brazing mistake, Herbie or I are right there to correct what’s going on. And of course you have to listen to and read a ton of stuff on how-to-braze before you even see the demonstrations of how to do it. The main difference between your results and an experienced builder is that it will take you 3 or 4 times as long to make it. Don’t expect to be well rested at the end of class.

Part of the design process is picking tubing that matches your body size and riding style – and of course is within your skill range. That we can do over the phone or by email (phone is the easiest) so there is time to order something I don’t have in stock before class.

I understand HenryIII's excitement. It's hard to hold back sometimes. I came close to starting a tandem yesterday with 5 mins of planning. Thankfully, the shop was too big of a mess to proceed.

I understand HenryIII's excitement. It's hard to hold back sometimes. I came close to starting a tandem yesterday with 5 mins of planning. Thankfully, the shop was too big of a mess to proceed.

I think you would have pulled it off quite nicely had you decided you build it...just sayin.