Fifty Plus (50+) - Saddles and the Prostate (preemptive apologies to those w delicate sensibilities)

Warning - this could be a little graphic for some...

The TdC last week was the first ride over 35 miles that I've done since I was at least 10 years younger, possibly 20-25 years. And I know from my annual physical exams that my prostate is, if not technically "enlarged," at least "prominent" (to quote my physician). Having said all that, I'm used to minor discomfort on saddles from time to time. And being a former Clyde, I know all about generalized sensations of pressure discomfort, but I've always been able to move around a bit and ride through those kinds of things with relative ease. Usually standing to get up a hill is all it takes to make things feel OK again.

But something new and different happened on the TdC, once I'd been in the saddle for over 2 hours - a sensation of having to urinate, badly. Once off the bike and in the port-o-let, though, I found I didn't need to at all, or at least only very little. The sensation was very recognizable from annual prostate exams, when the pressure placed on the prostate in turn puts pressure on the bladder.

This is making me think I should give up the 20 year old Turbo that used to serve me so well, and go for something else, perhaps with a groove or cutout, or maybe even a Brooks, in the hope of alleviating pressure on the gland. A quick look at an anotomical chart would suggest it might be susceptible to this sort of thing if it were larger than normal, and could therefore put pressure on the bladder.

Any other guys here have this specific issue, and found a workable solution?

I ensure that I am sitting on the sit bones and that I just rest the underparts on the saddle. No pain and no peeing problem either. And saddles with the cut out worked for me.

Craig, Because we change over the years it may very well be time to reassess your saddle, it's angle WRT the nose and maybe even the handlebar's height. Another irritant can be your cycling shorts, too much padding can be moved around or just bunched up to just where it isn't needed.

Brad

I don't have a problem. Once tried the saddle with the cut out. Worst ride I ever had.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/2011%20Tour%20de%20Cure/TDC2011064.jpg

I have changed to saddles with large cut outs. It is the only way I can ride without irritating the prostate, and I do not have any enlargement.

I don't have a problem. Once tried the saddle with the cut out. Worst ride I ever had.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/2011%20Tour%20de%20Cure/TDC2011064.jpg

10 Wheels, The pic reminds me of a charity ride where a good friend of mine's wife was my partner (we are good friends also). Almost to the first rest stop, maybe two miles away she told me she had to go to the restroom really bad, I said that I'd block the view if she needed me to. "Oh no", she replied "I have to poop." We gassed it to the rest stop running about 24+ MPH weaving in and out of other riders. As soon as she saw the Porta Potties she never broke speed as we crossed a grassy area, she said "Take my bike.", and we weren't even hardly slowing down and she dismounted on the run... I think I am the only rider to enter a rest area with two bikes! When she emerged she said "I knew I shouldn't have eaten that bran muffin." with a big smile.

AHHH, memories! :)

Brad

We have all been there on a bike ride....
Tobacco fields are good cover................
206883

I don't have a problem. Once tried the saddle with the cut out. Worst ride I ever had.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/2011%20Tour%20de%20Cure/TDC2011064.jpg

That very potty facing your Felt is where I found (twice) that I didn't really need to go.

That very potty facing your Felt is where I found (twice) that I didn't really need to go.

We took a break every 25 miles...

I drank 7 @ 24oz bottles

"But something new and different happened on the TdC, once I'd been in the saddle for over 2 hours - a sensation of having to urinate, badly. Once off the bike and in the port-o-let, though, I found I didn't need to at all, or at least only very little. The sensation was very recognizable from annual prostate exams, when the pressure placed on the prostate in turn puts pressure on the bladder."

As men age their prostrate continues to grow. If your saddle puts pressure on your perineum with an enlarged prostrate you can enflame the prostrate tissue which will lead to more swelling then pain and a closed off urethra making it feel like you gotta pee really bad.

My suggestion is to invest in a Brooks ASAP and throw that old saddle in the ditch!!!!!!!!!!!!

One thing your don't want to get is a case of prostatitis. NO, YOU DON'T WANT THIS!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.parade.com/articles/editions/2004/edition_06-20-2004/featured_1#.TfvnAM2OZLs

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/prostate_ez/

http://www.livestrong.com/article/131024-inflamed-prostate-symptoms/

PROSTATE A male gland spelled with only one "R"! Prostrate - lying flat horizontally. At the risk of being flamed.

An interesting subject for me personally. I was diagnosed with prostate (yes, only one r) cancer 3 years ago. Fortunately it is the slow growing variety, so I elected to go with "watchful waiting". I am just getting back to serious biking, but never thought of how the saddle can affect this gland. I am now wondering if a saddle that is "kind" to the prostate is a must. And what the heck is a Brooks?

First, I believe I spelled it correctly. ;)

Second, prostatitis is not the issue, at least for me. My prostate is simply larger than it used to be. And I didn't read anything in those articles that suggested any pressure on the perineum can lead to prostatitis in the first place, so I don't see any cause for cycling alarm regarding that particular problem.

My speculation is that saddle pressure on the area may be leading to pressure on the prostate (because of its size), which in turn is leading to pressure on the bladder. And if that's actually the case, then what type of saddle might have the best chance of alleviating the problem. That's what I'm hoping to learn more about from the experiences of my fellow (literally) members of the 50+ section.

And my father had prostate cancer late in his life, so I'm pretty keenly aware of prostate health issues in general, including keeping tabs on my own PSA every year (and hence the digital exam with each physical as well).

Craig: As you already know saddle selection is such a personal thing that it's almost impossible to know how a particular saddle will work on a given anatomy. I do, however, think you are on the right track to seek a saddle that puts less pressure on the region. Hence, a split, cut-out, or very deep grooved saddle may be in your future. There are five that work for me: Selle Italia SLK - Selle An-Atomica - Koobie Xenon - Specialized Toupe - Specialized Alias. If you do a search on these five you'll note they are all different versions of a split, cut-out or deep groove. The Selle Italia works for me on rides up to about four hours before it starts to get a bit uncomfortable. The Selle An-Atomica works for more up right riding and seems to be an all day saddle used this way. The Koobie Xenon feel hard the first 40 minutes or so. but then is great for the rest of the day. The Specialized Toupe is the best short time/distance saddle, however, at about 90 minutes I start to wish I were on one of the others. The Specialized Alias is used on my commuter which never get more than 24 miles (split between there and back) at a time. On longer rides, it's a bit too soft. One of the things I would look for is how well the saddle supports the sit bones and how much of the saddle will do this. Sometimes there is only one very small sweet spot for you sit bones. I like a saddle that allows me to slide a bit forward or back and still have the sit bones comfortably supported. Oh, one other thing. All five of these saddles take some dialing in. If you don't have the slant spot on, they all feel miserable. Interestingly enough, to me anyway, the slant is just a bit different for each one.

An interesting subject for me personally. I was diagnosed with prostate (yes, only one r) cancer 3 years ago. Fortunately it is the slow growing variety, so I elected to go with "watchful waiting". I am just getting back to serious biking, but never thought of how the saddle can affect this gland. I am now wondering if a saddle that is "kind" to the prostate is a must. And what the heck is a Brooks?

Brooks is a brand of saddle whose basic design hasn't changed for decades. It's primarily a hard leather saddle modeled somewhat on a tractor's seat. http://www.brooksengland.com/

Brad

Brooks is a brand of saddle whose basic design hasn't changed for decades. It's primarily a hard leather saddle modeled somewhat on a tractor's seat. http://www.brooksengland.com/

Brad

And how the Brooks saddle fits into this discussion is that it is designed to support your sit bones with firm, custom shaped support while allowing the perineal area to sort of hover over the saddle with little or no pressure. Also, the somewhat hard leather body of the saddle is suspended hammock-like from the front and rear of the saddle, allowing it to flex and softening its feel.

One thing that has not been mentioned much in this thread is that the tilt of the saddle can play a big role in how much pressure is on the prostate. This is especially true with a Brooks, but also applies to more typical covered shell saddles. Sometimes a degree or two of tilt adjustment can make the difference between an all day saddle and an ass hatchet.

My speculation is that saddle pressure on the area may be leading to pressure on the prostate (because of its size), which in turn is leading to pressure on the bladder. And if that's actually the case, then what type of saddle might have the best chance of alleviating the problem. That's what I'm hoping to learn more about from the experiences of my fellow (literally) members of the 50+ section.



The Brooks being all leather acts like a hammock for your butt & jewels cradling them not pushing back on them like all other non-100% leather seats do. I'd have to guess that's why they are still so popular.

All I know is my B33 Brooks now on my Cruiser is the most comfortable saddle I've ever put on a bike. The B17 Brooks might just be the right saddle for your roadster.

Brooks didn't work for me, so it's not always a solution for everyone. I ended up happy with a Selle Italia SLR flow, which has very little padding. It has a cut out.

When I resumed cycling in 2009 after a 17-year hiatus, I found that my old Selle Italia Super Turbo that fit me perfectly back in the late 1980s was no longer comfortable. I switched to a Selle SMP - no more problems! However, when it comes to saddles what works for me may not work for you.

Thanks for all the saddle tips, guys. I appreciate them and will use them as a starting point. I'm well aware that it's a personal preference thing, and the choice needs to be my own, but I thought if someone else had the same issue, what worked for them would be a more likely solution than just going into a shop and grabbing the first saddle I saw that wasn't the one I already have. So I welcome everyone's suggestions.

I tried a Brooks Team Pro when I was a young man, but after 1000 miles it wasn't even thinking of conforming to my anatomy yet, so I gave up on it. Since then I've avoided Brooks in general. But recently someone pointed out to me that the Team Pro was thicker and stiffer than the B17 line and isn't supposed to break in the same way. So there may be reason for me to revisit Brooks, as well as the other saddles mentioned here.

The Brooks B17 standard caused a lot of perineum pressure for me, so I cut out the middle based on the concept shown here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/15750548@N04/3291263207/in/set-72157614095230958/

Also, I find the ISM Adamo a great saddle for perineum pressure issues.

http://www.ismseat.com/products_typhoon.htm

This saddle claims to keep your perineal area more comfortable. From what I see it might work........

"Where perineal (crotch) pain and discomfort were once serious and restrictive problem issues for countless numbers of cyclists, RIDO owners are now enjoying the uninhibited freedom of being able to ride as far and as long as their legs and fitness level will take them."

http://www.rido-cyclesaddles.com/sensational-new-r2-c100064.html

I thought this might turn into a saddle thread. I've used most of those saddles already mentioned with various measures of success. Some worked for the perineum issue but then created some chafing problems elsewhere in the mix. I am now using one of the Allay saddles (http://www.allaysaddles.com/) and have been happy with it. I use the least expensive one, the Sport 1.1, which Amazon has for about $60.00. On my cargo bike (a Surly big Dummy) I use a MoonSaddle (http://www.moonsaddle.com/) which puts no pressure at all on perineum but I could never get it adjusted so I felt comfortable using it with my road bikes. It is great for the cargo bike though because I can pretty much hop on it wearing whatever and not have to worry about chafing. I've had pretty good luck trying out saddles and then unloading the ones I didn't like on Ebay.

(http://www.moonsaddle.com/)

10 Wheels, I fixed your pic for you... er... uh... for me, anyway. :D

10 wheels, i fixed your pic for you... Er... Uh... For me, anyway. :d


ok

207084

Having been a Turbo fan through most of the 80s and 90s (last one I had was an embroidered Jan Ullrich model), I discovered the new version of the Turbo last summer after a couple of years of different brands with cutouts. It now has gel and carbon rails that supposedly soak up some of the vibration from the road and I find it really comfortable, and contrary to commonsense, I find less pressure when it is flat or the front is very slightly angled upward. There is a cutout version that I haven't tried, though I've thought about trying it this summer (it's expensive):

http://www.selleitalia.com/files/prodotti/dettechimg_1294735351.jpg
www.selleitalia.com

Having been a Turbo fan through most of the 80s and 90s (last one I had was an embroidered Jan Ullrich model), I discovered the new version of the Turbo last summer after a couple of years of different brands with cutouts. It now has gel and carbon rails that supposedly soak up some of the vibration from the road and I find it really comfortable, and contrary to commonsense, I find less pressure when it is flat or the front is very slightly angled upward. There is a cutout version that I haven't tried, though I've thought about trying it this summer (it's expensive):

http://www.selleitalia.com/files/prodotti/dettechimg_1294735351.jpg
www.selleitalia.com

Were you having the same issues I described? And are you talking about the Turbo (which is apparently still available) or the Turbomatic?

At 153mm wide, it would be the Turbomatic. With the cutout as shown, it would have to be the Turbomatic Gel Flow.

I'm interested in your statement that "I didn't read anything in those articles that suggested any pressure on the perineum can lead to prostatitis in the first place, so I don't see any cause for cycling alarm regarding that particular problem". I've had some pretty significant symptoms of prostatitis, and ride a lot, 15,000 miles per year. Wondering if in fact there may be a connection.

For what its worth, I ride a saddle with a cut out (Selle Italia).

Being female, I generally have few prostate problems. ;) However, your symptoms sound a tad like you might have a bladder infection. Regardless, it is worth having a urinalysis done - in short, go see your doctor, before going to see your LBS for a new saddle.

At 153mm wide, it would be the Turbomatic. With the cutout as shown, it would have to be the Turbomatic Gel Flow.

I assumed the one in the illustration was a Turbomatic, BD, but if I read bikethom's post correctly, that's not the model he's tried and liked, which is what I was asking about. Or am I wrong? I am frequently.

I'm interested in your statement that "I didn't read anything in those articles that suggested any pressure on the perineum can lead to prostatitis in the first place, so I don't see any cause for cycling alarm regarding that particular problem". I've had some pretty significant symptoms of prostatitis, and ride a lot, 15,000 miles per year. Wondering if in fact there may be a connection.

For what its worth, I ride a saddle with a cut out (Selle Italia).

I'm not sure what to add to my statement, except to say that I posted it following only a quick scanning of those referenced articles. And during that bit of speed reading I didn't see any suggestion that pressure on the perineum has a causal effect on the development of prostatitis. If someone has read them more carefully and thoroughly and found such a statement, I'm all ears. Or eyes, I guess, given the medium.

Being female, I generally have few prostate problems. ;) However, your symptoms sound a tad like you might have a bladder infection. Regardless, it is worth having a urinalysis done - in short, go see your doctor, before going to see your LBS for a new saddle.

That's an interesting idea, and frankly one that never would have occurred to me, since it had literally never happened to me before the ride, and in the week following the ride, hasn't happened since. Granted, I haven't ridden that distance again in the past week. Wouldn't a bladder infection make itself known more frequently or consistently than that?

I do see from a quick look at the Mayo Clinic's website that male bladder infections can actually be caused by an enlarged prostate, but only one of the six symptoms they mention is present, and that one, as I said, has happened only that one time.

I assumed the one in the illustration was a Turbomatic, BD, but if I read bikethom's post correctly, that's not the model he's tried and liked, which is what I was asking about. Or am I wrong? I am frequently.

I have the same question. It sounded like he was talking about the Turbo, but the diagram he showed was of the Turbomatic Gel Flow. I am hoping he will chime in and clear up the confusion.

Had my cancerous prostate removed 9 weeks ago & the only way my doctor wanted me to ride was with a grooved saddle. PERIOD. Started riding at 5 weeks & have had to adjust the setup a little to releive pressure on the perineum but, had the same issue as you did Craig until I releived the pressure on the nerves which my surgeon told me lived in that area. I have no prostate but I have fluid & swelling in it's place. I was told it would be there for up to 6 months. The specialized pro comp gel works for me but, a seat is like underwear, if it don't fit, it ain't comfortable.

Generally when we get older we get smarter. In the case of cycling and prostrate problems the best solution is a recumbent. I know I will get hate mail, and the usual "proper fit" static, but a bent pratically eliminates all the problems and pressure of any DF seat.

I referred to the Turbomatic that is now available with carbon rails (it claimed gel, etc. on the packaging). I've never been diagnosed with prostate problems, but have experienced some numbness and discomfort prior to this saddle. The width is "just right." I wish to try the Turbo with cutout, just can't part with the $ right now ($150 and up on eBay at the moment).

http://www.selleitalia.com/eng/productsImg_popup.php?imgid=dettechimg_1296482759.jpg

10 years ago and I had a Radical Prostatectomy. Took a long time to get over Butt pain (Not ache-This was pain) In fact it took 6 years. All this time I was riding an MTB and I tried all sorts of saddles. But One day and a new bike- A road bike. Imagine the difference between an Upright seating position on the MTB and the longer lower position of a Road bike. That was all it was. The road bike took all the pressure and pain out of the ride. Only lasted 6 months before I Got the pain back and a change of saddle away from the Stock Fizic Aliante on the Giant to a San Marco Aero and I was back on track with no ache and definitely no pain.

I have had pain back on a few rides but on checking the saddle and seating position- I found that the saddle had moved. Re-adjusted and the only pain I get now is after a lay off and some soreness comes in after the ride.

That Fizic Aliante saddle in on the MTB now and I make certain that I get out of the saddle as much as possible or only use it as a perch. Not a great deal of body weight on it and it seems to work for up to 4 hours. After that I am beginning to wish I was back on the road bike.

PROSTATE A male gland spelled with only one "R"! Prostrate - lying flat horizontally. At the risk of being flamed.

Lying Prostrate reduces the risk of flaming.

After a lot of online research, and some measuring of my anatomy, and more online research, and then finally some price shopping, I decided to give the Selle Italia Max Flite Gel Flow a shot. Got a great price on one from BikeTiresDirect. It arrived yesterday. I hope to try it out before the weekend, but definitely by then if I can't get out before. I'll post my, ahem, findings.

FYI: I finally did try the Turbomatic Team Edition Gelflow (found it halfway reasonably priced on eBay), with the cutout. I've about 120 miles on it so far, and it has been very comfortable, with less discomfort than before. Can't say I was really un-comfortable with the regular Turbo, but this seems more so.

Having been a Turbo fan through most of the 80s and 90s (last one I had was an embroidered Jan Ullrich model), I discovered the new version of the Turbo last summer after a couple of years of different brands with cutouts. It now has gel and carbon rails that supposedly soak up some of the vibration from the road and I find it really comfortable, and contrary to commonsense, I find less pressure when it is flat or the front is very slightly angled upward. There is a cutout version that I haven't tried, though I've thought about trying it this summer (it's expensive):



I, like you, was a big fan of the Turbos. Had them on all my bikes and rode them for decades and thousands of miles.

In the last couple of years, I found them to be quite uncomfortable - no prostate issues, but could feel the thing pressing in places that weren't comfortable anymore. This led me on an expensive quest to find the right saddle. I tried the Selle Italia gel flite (with cut out), SMP glider et al (several of them), Koobi saddles (the best of the cut outs - two version the Enduro PRS and the Alpha PRS), and the Fizik Versus Antares (the middle one) which was the eventual winner and the one I now have on all my bikes.

The cut outs work ok for me, except after about 20 miles or so, I start to feel like I'm being slowly extruded through the saddle. The Fizik Versus saddles provide the relief from a channel, but still provide support since there is no hole. I can ride endlessly on these saddles.

Given that we like the same saddle for the same period suggesting we have a similar undercarriage in some respects, this may be a good choice or you too. If you do decide you need a hole, then I think the Koobi's are well worth a look and are excellent saddles. I still ride with one on my mountain bike just because I have it and it's a nice saddle.

J.