Advocacy & Safety - Sidewalks and tickets.

Who the HELL has ever been ticketed/hit by a vehicle on a sidewalk?...

I know it's illegal BLAH BLAH, but the more I cycle the more I think, I'm getting on that sidewalk when I'm uncomfortable with traffic.

The rest of you can tout your laws and proper regulations to some other idiots, it's all about what's SAFEST. Here, we have 1 street in a 50 mile radius with a few miles of bike path, and they are pleased with themselves. It's full of debris.

Effing Beaumont Texas.

Also, I firmly believe the introduction of bike lanes into a community further pervade the concensus that we don't 'belong' there at all.

Given that you're several times more likely to be hit in an intersection or driveway on the sidewalk than in the road, your 'safety' argument is kind of silly. Not to mention the fact that sidewalks tend to be full of pedestrians.

Who the HELL has ever been ticketed/hit by a vehicle on a sidewalk?

Not me. I'm not sure if the police would say anything even if one saw me doing it. They seem to have me on ignore.

Not to mention the fact that sidewalks tend to be full of pedestrians.

Not here, other than downtown and a few other places. Only losers walk or ride bicycles around here.

Who the HELL has ever been ticketed/hit by a vehicle on a sidewalk?...

I saw someone get hit by an SUV on the sidewalk. It was leaving its driveway.

:popcorn:

i have a pretty regular 20 round trip ride i do.

i leave my apartment complex directly on to the sidewalk so as to quickly get to the strip mall parking lot that provides a relatively safe environment. it's only about 50 yards of sidewalk. occasionally i encounter pedestrians. i usually ride off the sidewalk or stop and let them pass. after all, it's only 50 yards.

there are a couple of other spots where the sidewalk seems to be preferable to the road.

like the OP, i ride on it when the alternative seems less safe for all concerned.

and no, i have never been ticketed in 30 years. including about 10 major cities. (denver, tuscon, phoenix, detroit, columbus, sacramento, san francisco) ok, about 7 major cities.

This is why you gotta carry a weapon while riding on the sidewalk.




Gotta love these A&S threads on the 41 :thumb: :rolleyes:

You would live in Beaumont.

You would live in Beaumont.

Careful. I live in Jax. I've handled cases in Beaumont. There are certain elements that are not much different.

Careful. I live in Jax. I've handled cases in Beaumont. There are certain elements that are not much different.

I loved Beaumont, just found the people there to be a little different. Our OP fits perfectly.

I almost ran over a "cyclist" last week that came off of a sidewalk. I checked the lane, started pulling out, next thing I know he was just there. He never showed up in my field of vision until he was almost hit.

Here in Virginia Beach we have "bike lanes" here and there. Notice the quotation marks. I did that because they are really nothing more than widened sidewalks that walkers/joggers also use. So of course all of the serious roadies ride on the roads even when a "bike lane" is present. We have a lot of trouble with motorists because around here the majority of motorists don't accept the fact that bikes have a right to be in the road as well. Recently there have been two hit and run incidents as well as some moron who thought it would be funny to throw thumbtacks out along a well-known bike route used on daily rides sponsored by a local bike shop. Lots of flat tires and a couple of minor injuries were the result of that one.

Wait, just so I'm clear: you're advocating for riding on the sidewalk, but you oppose bike lanes on the street?

We just had a sidewalk thread that covered much of the safety debate. The one wrinkle this adds is: Do police in your area ever ticket cyclists for riding on them?

blah de blah de blah de wah wah wah

http://cdn1.pics.videobash.com/photos/000/004/643/4643_big.jpg

Come on! If you're looking for a perfectly safe activity get out of cycling! They call'em road bikes for a reason. You're safer on the road than dodging pedestrians on the sidewalk. How fast can you go while all this is going on? If you can't bring yourself to ride on the road where you belong then find another sport.

Missed my point entirely. Who here has ever personally been ticketed/warned by an LEO for being on a sidewalk? Like I give a **** if you think I'm scared of the road.

How anyone could like Beaumont is beyond me, the entire community thrives off the refineries *including myself unfortunately/fortunately*. Pedestrians on the sidewalk, few and scarce. This is an industrialized rural area, with weird population focuses centering around now ancient port cities such as Port Arthur, Sabine Pass, that are so destitute and crime ridden its sick.

For every sidewalk incident I could find 10 road fatalities.

My point is you will just not get ticketed for riding on the sidewalk in my area. You are more likely to be applauded, honestly. My main areas of point are as follows.

Martin Luther King Blvd, Beaumont Texas
Gulfway Drive, Port Arthur Texas

These are NO SHOULDER roadways of course.

These streets are main blvds and a death trap to cyclists, and I ALWAYS use the sidewalk when it's available. Laughably, it is not, and ends randomly and abrubtly only to begin again as randomly and abrubtly. The surrounding areas are very poor and abandoned, and the waterways that are a part of my area leave other travel routes non-existent or too far a detour to be considered for commuting. Also, detours are also relatively dangerous, so this argument is null to detour for safety.


Outside of dense cities and I guess California...riding on the sidewalk is both the safer and more accepted way to use a bicycle, HOWEVER incorrect that may be according to the law.

... the safer and more accepted way to use a bicycle, HOWEVER incorrect that may be according to the law.

No it isn't.

No it isn't.

In my area, yes, it is. This could be observed through a study, and numerous studies are done and prove a drivers ignorance of the laws required to known in order to drive. It can be safely assumed this assumption (sidewalk bicycling = correct to american public) pervades the majority of american drivers.

If you disagree, that's your opinion.

Who the HELL has ever been ticketed/hit by a vehicle on a sidewalk?...


I got hit by a car where a bi-directional multi-use path crossed a road since cars aren't looking for vehicle speed traffic off the main road way. After that I switched from riding on the path during times of traffic to using the road with no shoulder.



I know it's illegal BLAH BLAH, but the more I cycle the more I think, I'm getting on that sidewalk when I'm uncomfortable with traffic.
When I'm uncomfortable the shoulder (non-existent, cracks, grates, potholes, etc.) I get myself about 1/3 - 1/2 of the way into the lane, far enough left that no one can make a close pass squeezing around me on that side and far enough right that they can't try that. Never been hit by a car doing that.

In my area, yes, it is. This could be observed through a study, and numerous studies are done and prove a drivers ignorance of the laws required to known in order to drive. It can be safely assumed this assumption (sidewalk bicycling = correct to american public) pervades the majority of american drivers.

If you disagree, that's your opinion.
So we have 2 OPINIONS here with no factual data. If it "could be observed through a study", then do the fricken study... until then, understand that your opinion holds no more or less water than the opposition.

So we have 2 OPINIONS here with no factual data. If it "could be observed through a study", then do the fricken study... until then, understand that your opinion holds no more or less water than the opposition.

/shrug.

I think it's only really an opinion for people who don't ever ride on the street. It becomes pretty clear once one removes his head from his ass and rides his bike.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

Studies have been done. You know they have, I know they have, stop BS'ing me, we've all seen em. Motorists are vastly un-aware of DOT regulation, and this INCLUDES bicycle regulations pertaining to the use of roadways as well as illegal use of sidewalks.

Because you can't make this mental leap is of no concern to me.

To anyone thinking I don't 'use the road' or 'ride'... here's what a commute to class looks like. I try to do this once a week.

Commute to class (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Spooner+Street,+Bridge+City,+TX+to+Lamar+University,+Beaumont,+TX&saddr=Spooner+Street,+Bridge+City,+TX&daddr=Lamar+University,+Beaumont,+TX&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.506174,114.169922&geocode=FTBfygEd-5Zn-ilFhHtgsK0-hjGjK7t7sdcVPg%3BFXNTygEdE4Rk-iHvizifcMz21A&t=h&z=12)

I wish we had more sidewalks AND bike lanes, but I only got one of the two.

Effing Beaumont Texas..

I've never been there but I agree with everything else you said so it can't be too bad.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/bike/kidsandbikesafetyweb/index.htm) says that the safest place for bicycle riding is on the street, except for children less than 10 years old.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/bike/kidsandbikesafetyweb/index.htm) says that the safest place for bicycle riding is on the street, except for children less than 10 years old.

Is that a joke? The federal government tells me it's 'safer', but takes into account none of the differing and very unique differences in the infrastructure, economy, and geographical limitations. . .

Give me a break. The entire share the road with motorists idea works until it doesn't. It doesn't work a lot, and to worse ends.

I'm sure they did a study.

I'm sure they did a study.

They did, look it up, I know well enough to know I'm right. You're the one touting the study above. So an 11 year old should take my commute according to the NHA. I wouldn't expect anything more illogical from our government.

It all very much depends on the cyclist, the town, the street, the sidewalk, the timing, and the circumstances, so there's no sense in arguing the point, but it's always nice to listen to differing opinions.

It all very much depends on the cyclist, the town, the street, the sidewalk, the timing, and the circumstances, so there's no sense in arguing the point, but it's always nice to listen to differing opinions.

I've posted all these points. Can you not form a better opinion with my location, commute map, threads, posts, etc, that I am at least 1 situation where the standard "get on the road if your 10 to 100 years old" is so flawed it goes against COMMON SENSE.

MUP? Give me a break, a nonsense term in this location.

If I am a situation where the law is so blatantly counter-intuitive to what is "safe" use of road infrastructure, there are many, many more similar situations out there.

There's a saying that goes, "Every OSHA regulation is written with blood.". This seems not to be the case with DOT regulation and proper infrastructure, rather DOT regulation seems a cop-out to developing proper infrastructure. DOT regulation forces cyclists across this country between a rock and a hard place, with little reason to develop highways vs bike paths as the highway, according to law, is more versatile in types of vehicle traffic.

This seems not to be the case with DOT regulation and proper infrastructure, rather DOT regulation seems a cop-out to developing proper infrastructure. DOT regulation forces cyclists across this country between a rock and a hard place, with little reason to develop highways vs bike paths as the highway, according to law, is more versatile in types of vehicle traffic.

Welcome to a transportation system that for 60+ years was primarily designed for the automobile.

Understand the risks, and also that there is no one method of bike travel that is always the safest. Evaluate every situation and do the smart thing. It's as simple as that.

Studies have been done. You know they have, I know they have, stop BS'ing me, we've all seen em. Motorists are vastly un-aware of DOT regulation, and this INCLUDES bicycle regulations pertaining to the use of roadways as well as illegal use of sidewalks.

Because you can't make this mental leap is of no concern to me.

To anyone thinking I don't 'use the road' or 'ride'... here's what a commute to class looks like. I try to do this once a week.

Commute to class (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Spooner+Street,+Bridge+City,+TX+to+Lamar+University,+Beaumont,+TX&saddr=Spooner+Street,+Bridge+City,+TX&daddr=Lamar+University,+Beaumont,+TX&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=56.506174,114.169922&geocode=FTBfygEd-5Zn-ilFhHtgsK0-hjGjK7t7sdcVPg%3BFXNTygEdE4Rk-iHvizifcMz21A&t=h&z=12)

I wish we had more sidewalks AND bike lanes, but I only got one of the two.

Yes, indeed, there have been studies. Quite a few. Those studies all show the sidewalk is the most dangerous place to ride, by a pretty wide margin.

In my area, riding on the sidewalk is illegal. That being said, I've never heard of a ticket being issued. Use common sense. Duh. Only use the sidewalk in extreme or very brief circumstances and always go slow. If a cop comes by to discuss, you can always tickle him.

Whether or not riding on the sidewalk is illegal in your area is not the point. Whether or not drivers know that is not the point. The point is that motor vehicle drivers are not looking for cyclists at crosswalks and driveways. Yeah, plenty of people have been hit by cars in those places because they're not expected to be there. So that answers your question.

This is the road cycling forum. Perhaps this thread should be moved to commuting, or hell, A&S. The latter would have a field day with this one.

So, did you mean this 1994 study (http://www.bicyclinglife.com/library/Accident-Study.pdf), which showed riding on the sidewalk to be 80% riskier than riding on the road? Or maybe this study (http://view.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9542542) which found cyclists were injured 4 times more often riding on the sidewalk than on the road? Or perhaps you meant this study (http://www.bikexprt.com/bikepol/facil/sidepath/research/Aultman-Hall.pdf), which found that sidewalk riders were about 3 times more likely to be in a collision than road riders, but were 8 times more likely to suffer a major injury?

Please, enlighten us on which study you're talking about.

Here, we have 1 street in a 50 mile radius with a few miles of bike path, and they are pleased with themselves. It's full of debris.

Effing Beaumont Texas.


you should see some of the "bike lanes" in houston. at least on the roads around where i live, if you were to ride in the bike lane, you'd quickly be wiped out by a truck's mirror (or more probably just hit from behind by someone not paying attention). which is why i rarely ride on the roads in my area, i just stick to the bike trails.

I almost got run over the other day, on the sidewalk, by two bicycle police who were just casually riding along.... ON THE SIDEWALK. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

The OP only wants to ride on the sidewalks so he can tickle people easier:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/743623-Give-riders-a-worse-name

They did, look it up, I know well enough to know I'm right. You're the one touting the study above. So an 11 year old should take my commute according to the NHA. I wouldn't expect anything more illogical from our government.Here's you a study, by bicyclists.


Bicyclists on a sidewalk or bicycle path incur greater risk than those on the roadway (on aver*age 1.8 times as great)http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Library/riskfactors.htm

But that's your life, go back to tickling construction workers, and stop advocating unsafe cycling.

I don't know where you get your info, but the sidewalks are never really more safe. Maybe in short stretches to avoid certain obstacles, but otherwise the street is a much safer alternative - you are much more visible to all traffic (traveling and merging). The only encounters I have ever had with a car, was during college - and I was on the sidewalk. The pulled up quickly, and I actually hit them - they said they didn't see me. The campus police saw it and checked me out to make sure I was ok. He told me it was a common occurrence, and told me the road was much more safe because of visibility issues. I took his word for it and have stayed away from sidewalks since.

Just because many motorist are ignorant of the law, and may not like you traveling in "their" road, it does not mean you are more safe staying away from them.

Where I live I've never seen or heard about anyone ticketed for riding on a sidwalk. But then again, I've never heard of anyone being ticketed for riding the wrong way against traffic, running stop sign / red light, or doing anything else illegal on a bike. For the most part cyclist are seen as a road hazzard around here, and much like any other road hazzard, no legal action takes place if you hit one with your car...

Heck, while we're at it, who here has been killed? At all? Anybody?

Guess death is just a myth too.

Any national study cited is OF NO CONCERN to me. The population differences in the variables of cyclists using sidewalks and incurring injury is such a small representation and GEOGRAPHICALLY RESTRAINED to high population areas. Nobody uses these sidewalks, use google maps and count the pedestrians on MLK in Beaumont. Do Times Square in NYC. It's common sense, and the fact that you can't stop your eyes from glazing over when you see a study is a whole different problem.

I can observe that sidewalk riding is more safe on MLK blvd in Beaumont and Gulfway Dr in Port Arthur Texas, and my commute when available. Once again, this is so simple it's stupid. How many close calls have you had on a sidewalk? On the Road?

So simple.

I've never been hit by a car when riding on the sidewalk (which I rarely ever do anyway), but I did hit someone who was riding on the sidewalk.

About 12 years ago. I pulled up to the intersection where there was a stop sign. Waited for traffic to clear, and began to pull out and BAM! Coming off the sidewalk from my right side a bike must have been going 20+ mph. He was traveling fast enough that when I glanced down the sidewalk looking for pedestrians, he was far enough away to be out of my field of view due to some shrubbery on the corner. Plus, riding contrary to the flow of traffic gave me much less time to see him once he became visible. Thankfully, the rider was unhurt and the only damage was a few scratches to my car. He cursed me out, hopped on his bike and blasted back down the sidewalk before I could even collect my thoughts and get out of the car.

Also a friend of mine was killed about a month ago after being struck by a car while riding his bike. There were multiple factors that led to the accident, but one of the ingredients was that he was riding on the sidewalk. Perhaps if Tommy had been in the street where he would have been more visible it would have been enough to prevent the tragedy? One can only speculate. I am pretty sure he was riding down the sidewalk because it was a farily busy street and he figured it was safer.

Sure these are anecdotal examples, but they are enough to convince me it's safer to be in the street.

I can observe that sidewalk riding is more safe on MLK blvd in Beaumont and Gulfway Dr in Port Arthur Texas, and my commute when available. Once again, this is so simple it's stupid. How many close calls have you had on a sidewalk? On the Road?

So simple.

Are you attempting to troll or is it just coming across that way?

Personal experience, I have never been hit on the road. I never ride on the sidewalk. My brother has never been hit on the road, he has been hit on a sidewalk.

Are you attempting to troll or is it just coming across that way?

Yes.

Yeah, in downtown Ft Worth, the cops and security on bikes all ride on the sidewalk against pedestrian traffic. Downtown is probably the safest part of Ft Worth to be on the street since no one really ever gets over 20mph down there.

Like Doohickie said, understand what makes a sidewalk dangerous and evaluate each situation on its own merits. There are places where I use the sidewalk - places where there are NEVER pedestrians on them and the roadway has very fast moving traffic with no shoulder. I try to keep it to a minimum and am extra careful around driveways, parking lot entrances, etc. Assume you are invisible when you are on the sidewalk.