Living Car Free - Car-free in the next generation? Probably not.

Roody shared an article in another thread about adults in NYC learning how to ride a bike for the first time, and this got me to thinking about the current generation of young people. I teach in a middle school in Seattle, a very bike-friendly city. Thousands of people commute to their jobs by bike pretty much every day. However, most of these people are over 30. Some college-aged or high school-aged people I know will enthusiastically ride bikes around town, but most in this age range avoid bikes like the plague (or any other form of mild hardship, for that matter), and generally view bicycles and the people who ride them with disdain.

At the middle school level, it's even less bicycle-friendly. The vast majority of the students that I teach are driven virtually everywhere by an adult. I have actually seen students who live 10 blocks from school wait for 45 minutes to get picked up by a parent in their SUV. Most of these students actually know how to ride a bike, but they, and their parents, view them as too dangerous to use as actual transport. At the end of this school year, we actually gave an award to a set of three brothers because they were the only students in the whole school who actually rode their bikes to school every day. Some students are aware enough to recognize that cars are not automatically a part of their future, and they'd rather have an iPhone than a car if push came to shove, but, in all honesty, most of my students see bicyclists as eccentric at best.

I think it's based on a lack of education about bicycling. When I was a child, way back in the 1970's, schools actually trained kids how to ride bikes in traffic. When I rode a bike in college, and again after I decided to go mostly car free, I drew on this training, and naturally took to the roads on my bike as if I were in a car. Young people now don't have that training to draw on, nor do most of their parents, so the whole bike thing just seems too dangerous or inconvenient to bother with.

I read an article, actually it was on this forum, where car companies are having a hard time marketing to the 20-30 somethings, as they are for a larger part than ever uninterested in driving, so I don't think this will be an issue, and in fact I can see more young people choosing to be car-free than us older farts are now.

As far as cycling, lookk at the hipster culture. This is a bunch of teen to thiryy kids who have no vehicle other than a bike, for the most part.

All that aside, as fuel gets more and more expensive, young people may have the choice to own a car removed from them like it or not.

I am thinking it maybe the generation that is just ahead and just behind the one that your are teaching? My son is 26 and lives car free as does his 25 year old sister. My son lives in Boston, my lives daughter in Seattle (moving to NH soon). My son doesn't want a car and is perfectly happy getting around Boston via mass transit, but is considering a bicycle. My daughter realizes that a car is an expensive tool and only uses/wants one when there is no other option. She currently commutes to and from work via mass transit, but uses the bicycle extensively for shopping and personal travel. When she moves to NH a car may become necessary.

Aaron :)

I think the source of the disconnect with kids today is that riding bikes is not a normal "fun" activity of youth anymore. We all rode bikes just for the joy of it. It was never an intelligent decision based on environmental outcomes, and even the economics of riding a bike weren't so pronounced because it was imbedded in common sense as a kid. We didn't have cars and our parents weren't chaperones, so how else were you going to get around freely?

One can only hope (like with so many other lessons for kids) by adults doing instead of preaching, that kids are still getting the message through osmosis and will come to the cycling lifestyle they have witnessed with "older people" their entire lives (speaking of Portland and other cycling cities).

As long as their parents are willing (or actually insist) on driving them around everywhere, why would kids want to ride? In fact, it soesn't seem like they much want to go outdoors at all because they are over-entertained indoors. Parents seem to be overly concerned about the comfort and safety of their precious ones these days.

I would need to see some sort of evidence that this is an actual phenomena since every child under the age of 16 in my neck of the woods does nothing but ride bikes all day every day. Also, most of my peers as an undergraduate either commuted to the university on bike or rode on the weekends (I was one of the few people that didn't ride as an undergrad). There probably has been a bit of a decline in bicycle use in the last 30 years but I doubt it's as bad as the "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" styled comments you are making suggest.

Hmm, well I guess I am in that "over 30" category now, but I don't think you are looking around hard enough. Sure, a lot of COMMUTERS in Seattle are over 30, but a lot of people I see just riding around, using a bike as transportation are under 30. I've found it strange that in Seattle commuting is popular, but just using the bike as transportation to go everywhere isn't as much.

Frankly I don't have hope until the government starts to take a stand and promote bicycling and bike infrastructure. Sometimes people need more of a push or incentive.

There probably has been a bit of a decline in bicycle use in the last 30 years but I doubt it's as bad as the "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" styled comments you are making suggest.

I would LOVE to have more kids on my lawn--or anywhere besides in front of the video screen. Your town may be an exception, but many intelligent people from Michelle Obama on down have identified childhood obesity and a sedentary lifestyle as a problem of grave national importance.

I wonder if bike riding instruction couldn't be given in schools as part of physical education. (Do they even have that any more?) After all, it's a fine form of aerobic exercise that's accessible to many people who for some reason or another can't run & jump all that well.

Back in "my" day:50::D we had bicycle rodeos at school every spring, police came and registered bikes, you got stickers, cotton candy, peanuts, popcorn and had fun learning how to ride properly. They also taught us how to be a proper pedestrians... Unfortunately all of that has gone by the wayside, they also used to teach things like respect, humility and cooperation.:innocent: As well as the Three "R"'s. I also learned how to sew, make bowling pin lamps, punch metal and use a pottery wheel. Damned if I know what they are teaching kids these days.:roflmao2:

Aaron:)

Back in "my" day:50::D we had bicycle rodeos at school every spring, police came and registered bikes, you got stickers, cotton candy, peanuts, popcorn and had fun learning how to ride properly. They also taught us how to be a proper pedestrians... Unfortunately all of that has gone by the wayside, they also used to teach things like respect, humility and cooperation.:innocent: As well as the Three "R"'s. I also learned how to sew, make bowling pin lamps, punch metal and use a pottery wheel. Damned if I know what they are teaching kids these days.:roflmao2:

Aaron:)I know, I feel bd for the kids going to school now. We learned both useful and useless skills like butter churning (history & scienc), how to pluck and dress a chicken (biology), jump starting a car, chess, pottery classical music and wood carving and logic by sixth grade.

These were passionate interests that individual teachers had, and they enjoyed sharing them with children. The main thing my grandson learns is how to pass a standardized test, since that's what the teacher's evaluation is based on.

sorry to get off topic here, but...

I'm not sure I can remember the exact details, but I briefly heard some stats on a radio news program last weekend. I think they were talking about testing results of graduating high school students (ACT maybe?). Something like 56% of students were proficient in economics while only 12% were proficient in history. Sounds like a good recipe for the future!

It seems to me that the behavior of kids that are so thoroughly under the control of their parents is really an indication of the viewpoints of those parents, not what the kids themselves will actually grow up to be like. There are a lot of kids that ride their bikes around the parking lot of the apartment complex we live in, but they never leave. We live in a quiet residential neighborhood and traffic is nearly non-existent. I think there is just a perception that cycling is so dangerous that it shouldn't be done anywhere but in the lot here where drivers are always on the look-out for the myriad of kid running around. It is sad to me that people don't see how much more dangerous it is in the long run to allow their children to sit in front of the TV all day.

I think attitudes are actually changing, slowly but surely. The parents of today's middle schoolers are definitively in the over 30 crowd, most are in their 40s, the age group that I seem to get the most guff from for being car-free. People closer to my age seem to think it a very sensible thing to do, although more work than it's worth for their own circumstances.

Then again my son is persistently telling me that he is the only 8 year-old in the world that doesn't have any sort of video game system or a TV. Hmmmm . . . must work on broadening his world view.

Damned if I know what they are teaching kids these days.:roflmao2:


Self-esteem? :D

Seriously, though, my experience as a kid included no cycling instruction at school or anything like that, and most kids biked all over the place anyway. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that schools, police etc are doing this kind of stuff, I'm just saying that the lack of such programs may not necessarily be a cause for low rates of bike use -- and if parents believe that riding a bike is unsafe regardless of the safety training their kids get, the kids won't be riding either...

Self-esteem? :D

Seriously, though, my experience as a kid included no cycling instruction at school or anything like that, and most kids biked all over the place anyway. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that schools, police etc are doing this kind of stuff, I'm just saying that the lack of such programs may not necessarily be a cause for low rates of bike use -- and if parents believe that riding a bike is unsafe regardless of the safety training their kids get, the kids won't be riding either...

I come from a whole family of educators...which is why I AM NOT!

Yup they teach self esteem to the point of arrogance, with no humility or personal responsibility. As one pundit pointed out a while back: "the teachers are afraid of the administration, the administration is afraid of the parents and the kids aren't afraid of anything..." It takes a village to raise a child, but the village has been failing miserably in too many cases.

Aaron :)

Its baffling to me. Especially in Seattle where, unless its between the hours of like 8pm and 7am, riding a bike is probably faster.

I think it's based on a lack of education about bicycling.

I believe this is part of the reason; there's also the larger problem that we as a society tend to see little value in daily physical activity for any reason. Four of my six nephews and godsons participated in sports while they were in high school, but none followed it up with routine exercise of any sort and only two have shown interest in keeping up with outdoor activities of any kind. They're all now in their late teens and 20s, and two of them are already considerably overweight; a third is marginally so. The youngest two still like to go riding with me and I have somewhat more hope for them.

Roody shared an article in another thread about adults in NYC learning how to ride a bike for the first time, and this got me to thinking about the current generation of young people. I teach in a middle school in Seattle, a very bike-friendly city. Thousands of people commute to their jobs by bike pretty much every day. However, most of these people are over 30. Some college-aged or high school-aged people I know will enthusiastically ride bikes around town, but most in this age range avoid bikes like the plague (or any other form of mild hardship, for that matter), and generally view bicycles and the people who ride them with disdain.

At the middle school level, it's even less bicycle-friendly. The vast majority of the students that I teach are driven virtually everywhere by an adult. I have actually seen students who live 10 blocks from school wait for 45 minutes to get picked up by a parent in their SUV. Most of these students actually know how to ride a bike, but they, and their parents, view them as too dangerous to use as actual transport. At the end of this school year, we actually gave an award to a set of three brothers because they were the only students in the whole school who actually rode their bikes to school every day. Some students are aware enough to recognize that cars are not automatically a part of their future, and they'd rather have an iPhone than a car if push came to shove, but, in all honesty, most of my students see bicyclists as eccentric at best.

I think it's based on a lack of education about bicycling. When I was a child, way back in the 1970's, schools actually trained kids how to ride bikes in traffic. When I rode a bike in college, and again after I decided to go mostly car free, I drew on this training, and naturally took to the roads on my bike as if I were in a car. Young people now don't have that training to draw on, nor do most of their parents, so the whole bike thing just seems too dangerous or inconvenient to bother with.

You ought to see how crowded the buses (especially the cheaper fare, locally neighborhood run shuttle mini buses) get dangerously jammed up with a wall of kid bodies spilling out in the entrance/exit door aisles, when school lets out-that's middle school and high school level. I remember once the bus had to stop a few feet around the corner to let some of those whiny ones off the bus. The teen girl that got off complained-very loudly I might add-about having to walk the extra few feet! Plus don't go anywhere near a school (elementary, middle, high) during pick up/drop off times. The streets around the schools are also jammed with smelly SUVs mostly waiting for their little lazy ones to meet them. Bikes? What Bikes? I rarely see them used as transport around here with the teen crowd.


As long as their parents are willing (or actually insist) on driving them around everywhere, why would kids want to ride? In fact, it soesn't seem like they much want to go outdoors at all because they are over-entertained indoors. Parents seem to be overly concerned about the comfort and safety of their precious ones these days.

You can thank the media for playing on parental fears of losing their children to mostly imaginary predators. Or imaginary "dangerous streets." What you should be aware of is that the parent/caretaker is liable and blamed if something out of their control does happens. I think that is the real underlying reason why children get locked up with the prized possessions until they reach 18.


I believe this is part of the reason; there's also the larger problem that we as a society tend to see little value in daily physical activity for any reason. Four of my six nephews and godsons participated in sports while they were in high school, but none followed it up with routine exercise of any sort and only two have shown interest in keeping up with outdoor activities of any kind. They're all now in their late teens and 20s, and two of them are already considerably overweight; a third is marginally so. The youngest two still like to go riding with me and I have somewhat more hope for them.

Exercise and most physical activity that can be avoided is done so with the young adult. "Brains" are valued far over "Brawn" nowadays with both sexes.

Don't worry about the next and succeeding generations. When the car is no longer available to them, they will ride a bike. Until then, we will have overweight people growing within our population.

My daughter realizes that a car is an expensive tool and only uses/wants one when there is no other option. She currently commutes to and from work via mass transit, but uses the bicycle extensively for shopping and personal travel. When she moves to NH a car may become necessary.

Aaron :)

This attitude is pretty common among young people I run into. The car is less of a symbol and more something you might need if you snag a job in the outer suburbs.

I believe on the whole, the younger generation is more aware that things are changing quickly and will continue to do so. They realize the dream of car ownership and the suburban lifestyle may not be a given in future decades. Indeed, considering youth unemployment and the mushrooming student loan debt, it may be nearly impossible for some.

I suspect many of them know (unlike their parents) that it's time to adapt... to grow in a different way.

There probably has been a bit of a decline in bicycle use in the last 30 years but I doubt it's as bad as the "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!" styled comments you are making suggest.

Please don't assume that I disapprove of young people; quite the opposite. And it's not a "Hey you kids get off my lawn" issue, it's more of a "Hey you kids, what do you have against the lawn?" question. Last month, I took a group of 6th graders from my school to environmental camp. I thought it was kind of fun, as did my fellow teachers and many of the kids. However, about half of my students absolutely HATED it. When I requested specific feedback, I found out that their biggest complaints were (in order of frequency):

1. They had to use outhouses or portable toilets more often than not;
2. It was too muddy (I'm not making this up);
3. There weren't any choices about what to eat at meals. (In students' defense, I personally think the camp did do a poor job here when it came to accommodating food allergies, but otherwise this one left me as perplexed as the other complaints.)

I'm pretty sure this has as much to do with the demographics of the students I teach as anything else, but still, I'm concerned. I have students who will eagerly, even joyfully, kill themselves on a soccer field, and who will willingly do three hours of homework a day, but who won't walk six blocks to go home because they think it might be too dangerous, and who view a temporary lack of plumbing as a hardship so severe as to ruin their whole week. As much as I love them, and I do, they seem to be living in a soccer-mom version of the Hitler Youth, complicitly agreeing to work very hard in a highly regimented, tightly controlled environment in exchange for iPhones, video games, and their own personal limo service.

I'm pretty sure this has as much to do with the demographics of the students I teach as anything else, but still, I'm concerned. I have students who will eagerly, even joyfully, kill themselves on a soccer field, and who will willingly do three hours of homework a day, but who won't walk six blocks to go home because they think it might be too dangerous, and who view a temporary lack of plumbing as a hardship so severe as to ruin their whole week. As much as I love them, and I do, they seem to be living in a soccer-mom version of the Hitler Youth, complicitly agreeing to work very hard in a highly regimented, tightly controlled environment in exchange for iPhones, video games, and their own personal limo service.

I hear you. From my experience, I see the same thing.

Sad but true.

It could be we simply live in a world that has more information to make parents cautious. Just go onto the Megan's list site and more than likely you will see preditors within a rocks throw of where you live. Iphone has an app that shows you were your kids are and how close they are to registered sex offenders. I have been guilty of going with the flow of this thinking as well.

When I was in Kenya I noticed small children walking to school every morning. Each child had their own little uniform to distinguish what school they went to. But what surprised me was some of these kids had to no more than first graders. I asked one of the small town elders about this and said very few places in the US would allow such small children to walk that far because we would be afraid someone would snatch them. I asked if it ever happened there. He assured me that from time to someone would molest or harm a child. But they were a small community and had a pretty good idea who was capible of such things. So the elders would take said suspect out into the bush late one evening and "question" them. The problem was solved and I assume the suspect moved because I was told he was never seen in town again.:innocent:

Please don't assume that I disapprove of young people; quite the opposite. And it's not a "Hey you kids get off my lawn" issue, it's more of a "Hey you kids, what do you have against the lawn?" question. Last month, I took a group of 6th graders from my school to environmental camp. I thought it was kind of fun, as did my fellow teachers and many of the kids. However, about half of my students absolutely HATED it. When I requested specific feedback, I found out that their biggest complaints were (in order of frequency):

1. They had to use outhouses or portable toilets more often than not;
2. It was too muddy (I'm not making this up);
3. There weren't any choices about what to eat at meals. (In students' defense, I personally think the camp did do a poor job here when it came to accommodating food allergies, but otherwise this one left me as perplexed as the other complaints.)

I'm pretty sure this has as much to do with the demographics of the students I teach as anything else, but still, I'm concerned. I have students who will eagerly, even joyfully, kill themselves on a soccer field, and who will willingly do three hours of homework a day, but who won't walk six blocks to go home because they think it might be too dangerous, and who view a temporary lack of plumbing as a hardship so severe as to ruin their whole week. As much as I love them, and I do, they seem to be living in a soccer-mom version of the Hitler Youth, complicitly agreeing to work very hard in a highly regimented, tightly controlled environment in exchange for iPhones, video games, and their own personal limo service.

Sounds like city kids. When I was in school (almost 50 years ago) the kids were the same way when we went to camp or whatnot. EEwww!! was commnly heard from my classmates, whether about the food, the bugs, or the outhouses. If you were in a group of farm kids, you would probably get a different reaction.

...their biggest complaints were (in order of frequency):

1. They had to use outhouses or portable toilets more often than not;
2. It was too muddy (I'm not making this up);
3. There weren't any choices about what to eat at meals. (In students' defense, I personally think the camp did do a poor job here when it came to accommodating food allergies, but otherwise this one left me as perplexed as the other complaints.)


Those kids had obviously not been pre-sold on the idea of roughing it. They come into a sports game after years of soaking up cultural messages about how much we value athletic contests, and that's where the positive attitude comes from. By contrast, they receive few cultural messages about how much we value interaction with nature at the outhouse & mud level.

Those kids had obviously not been pre-sold on the idea of roughing it. They come into a sports game after years of soaking up cultural messages about how much we value athletic contests, and that's where the positive attitude comes from. By contrast, they receive few cultural messages about how much we value interaction with nature at the outhouse & mud level.

Also, I think for kids being grossed out is half the fun. Sometimes they exaggerate for dramatic effect.

It could be we simply live in a world that has more information to make parents cautious. Just go onto the Megan's list site and more than likely you will see preditors within a rocks throw of where you live. Iphone has an app that shows you were your kids are and how close they are to registered sex offenders. I have been guilty of going with the flow of this thinking as well.

When I was in Kenya I noticed small children walking to school every morning. Each child had their own little uniform to distinguish what school they went to. But what surprised me was some of these kids had to no more than first graders. I asked one of the small town elders about this and said very few places in the US would allow such small children to walk that far because we would be afraid someone would snatch them. I asked if it ever happened there. He assured me that from time to someone would molest or harm a child. But they were a small community and had a pretty good idea who was capible of such things. So the elders would take said suspect out into the bush late one evening and "question" them. The problem was solved and I assume the suspect moved because I was told he was never seen in town again.:innocent:

I am of the opinion that there really aren't anymore pedophiles out there today than there were 10,15, or 20 years ago. Just that people are more aware of them and because of the internet and instant news it becomes a huge deal. I have seen studies that indicate that the criminal population stays pretty constant based on percentages of the general population.

Aaron :)

As a car free 18 year old, I kinda resent this whole "darn meddling kids" vibe I'm getting from the thread. :p

Maybe it's because I live in a college town but I have troubles finding bike parking around. There's always someone at the rack, never fails. I've resorted to using trees quite a bit more than I like to, actually. But that's another topic for another audience (I'm looking at you, city council...).

The Car Free Lifestyle isn't going anywhere and if anything will get bigger when gas prices take a turn to the ridiculous. How many of you are car converts? I'm guessing a lot of you, all for a cornucopia of reasons. You don't think my generation is going to find these reasons pretty compelling also? If we go to electric cars and gas prices become irrelevant, the converts will probably stick to their bikes and life will go on.

I come from the generation you guys are speaking of. My parents were my taxi and when they wouldn't take me somewhere, I wouldn't go. I've owned 2 bikes in my life: An 80s Huffy MTB from a dumpster when I was 8, and my current Ross SS Conversion. They'll discover the joy that is 2 wheels and 2 pedals, just like I did. Just give them time. I didn't discover it until 16. And when I started riding, I was afraid to ride around cars. I would drive to the Greenway, just to ride. Now I bum my parents for a car during tornado warnings and live blissfully on 2 wheels.

The world won't blow up from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-Il going crazy, my generation will grow up to be just like yours and resent kids the same, politicians will continue to do nothing and the ethnicity du jour will immigrate en masse and make some region of the country mad. C'est la vie. :)

Thanks for the view from your perspective, RaiderInBlue47! Better to hear opinions straight from the younger generation , rather than us old folks making assumptions about a generation we have long passed!:rolleyes:

As a car free 18 year old, I kinda resent this whole "darn meddling kids" vibe I'm getting from the thread. :p

Maybe it's because I live in a college town but I have troubles finding bike parking around. There's always someone at the rack, never fails. I've resorted to using trees quite a bit more than I like to, actually. But that's another topic for another audience (I'm looking at you, city council...).

The Car Free Lifestyle isn't going anywhere and if anything will get bigger when gas prices take a turn to the ridiculous. How many of you are car converts? I'm guessing a lot of you, all for a cornucopia of reasons. You don't think my generation is going to find these reasons pretty compelling also? If we go to electric cars and gas prices become irrelevant, the converts will probably stick to their bikes and life will go on.

I come from the generation you guys are speaking of. My parents were my taxi and when they wouldn't take me somewhere, I wouldn't go. I've owned 2 bikes in my life: An 80s Huffy MTB from a dumpster when I was 8, and my current Ross SS Conversion. They'll discover the joy that is 2 wheels and 2 pedals, just like I did. Just give them time. I didn't discover it until 16. And when I started riding, I was afraid to ride around cars. I would drive to the Greenway, just to ride. Now I bum my parents for a car during tornado warnings and live blissfully on 2 wheels.

The world won't blow up from Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong-Il going crazy, my generation will grow up to be just like yours and resent kids the same, politicians will continue to do nothing and the ethnicity du jour will immigrate en masse and make some region of the country mad. C'est la vie. :)

Very good points, and VERY well written. I hope you'll be posting here often. :)

I too was struck by the cyclical nature of this issue. There's intergenerational conflict in every generation and every generation thinks it's something new. As I get older, i try not to sound the same as I remember adults sounding when I was your age. Sometimes it's hard not to fall into the stereotypes. I remember my parent's neighbors yelling at me to turn down the music, and last week I found myself with my head stuck outside my window yelling at the kids across the street to turn it down. My parents told me to get my nose out of a book and play outside, and now I'm telling my grandson the same thing about his video games.

When I was in Kenya I noticed small children walking to school every morning. Each child had their own little uniform to distinguish what school they went to. But what surprised me was some of these kids had to no more than first graders. I asked one of the small town elders about this and said very few places in the US would allow such small children to walk that far because we would be afraid someone would snatch them. I asked if it ever happened there. He assured me that from time to someone would molest or harm a child. But they were a small community and had a pretty good idea who was capible of such things. So the elders would take said suspect out into the bush late one evening and "question" them. The problem was solved and I assume the suspect moved because I was told he was never seen in town again.:innocent:

It's probably pretty safe to assume that ferrying the kids to school in an SUV (or even a Land Rover) was not an option for these folks. Can't help wondering what they'd do if it was an option, but of course there's no way to know until they actually get the opportunity.

As a car free 18 year old, I kinda resent this whole "darn meddling kids" vibe I'm getting from the thread. :p


Once again, it's nothing against the kids. In many ways, kids now are way better than they were when I started teaching 20 years ago. They're more into service, for one thing, and they work harder. But they're also less free, and that lack of freedom, in my view, makes them less resilient in the long run; many of them simply don't know how to adapt to new situations or solving new problems that they haven't encountered before, because they don't have any practice doing it. If you spend all of your time doing planned activities, this is a skill you never develop.

I'm not an old grouch blaming kids. I'm an old grouch blaming their well-meaning, terrified and somewhat totalitarian parents.

I wonder if bike riding instruction couldn't be given in schools as part of physical education. (Do they even have that any more?) After all, it's a fine form of aerobic exercise that's accessible to many people who for some reason or another can't run & jump all that well.

I was at a high school in Ljubljana, Slovenia in the fall and noticed the grammar school kids next door with bikes, and helmets... when I asked I was told that in Slovenia young kids are taught to ride bikes and roller skate as part of PE.. .skiing is also taught in winter.

Robi

I wonder if bike riding instruction couldn't be given in schools as part of physical education. (Do they even have that any more?) After all, it's a fine form of aerobic exercise that's accessible to many people who for some reason or another can't run & jump all that well.

I like this idea. Made me remember the "SafetyTown" program that was part of kindergarten (early 1970s - dunno if same or similar still around). Basically, it was to teach kids to be safe as peds on city streets, learn road laws, etc. I could see this being revived (and might be somewhere) and including bikes.

I wonder if bike riding instruction couldn't be given in schools as part of physical education. (Do they even have that any more?) After all, it's a fine form of aerobic exercise that's accessible to many people who for some reason or another can't run & jump all that well.

Maybe they could start with some of those schools that we read about from time to time where the kids aren't allowed to arrive by bike?;)

I doubt that this idea would fly in the current climate in most of the US -- acquiring and maintaining the bikes would require tax $$:eek:, and a lot of parents and taxpayers seem to not want their kids, or anybody else for that matter, contaminating their sacred car space, er I mean road space, with bikes at all...

I doubt that this idea would fly in the current climate in most of the US -- acquiring and maintaining the bikes would require tax $$:eek:, and a lot of parents and taxpayers seem to not want their kids, or anybody else for that matter, contaminating their sacred car space, er I mean road space, with bikes at all...

I thought about the $$ aspect as well; for instance, the City where I live (and many larger cities) already have "bike libraries" which have free bikes for "checkout" by adults. If kids that come from households that can't afford bikes, one option would be some of the funds used for the libraries go to a school program. In short, it would seem doable.
The parents that don't want bikes is different issue.

I like this idea. Made me remember the "SafetyTown" program that was part of kindergarten (early 1970s - dunno if same or similar still around). Basically, it was to teach kids to be safe as peds on city streets, learn road laws, etc. I could see this being revived (and might be somewhere) and including bikes.

I thought this still existed.

Safety City in Knoxville even has it's own sunsphere...
http://www.cityofknoxville.org/Images/safetycitysunsphere.jpg

Yep...

http://thesplendidsunshine.blogspot.com/2011/05/safety-city.html

"This past Friday I took my students on a field trip to Safety City. It sounds cheesy but it was actually pretty neat. The first half of the day, my students learned about road safety like which side of the road to walk, bike, or drive on. Then they got to go outside to the mini-Knoxville city and practice what they learned."

I'm 26 now and only started bike commuting 2 years ago. I now live in a supposedly "bike friendly" town (and to its credit there are some fantastic urban trails, bike lanes, and low traffic streets to get around town), but "bike friendly" doesn't exactly correspond with "bike prevalent." Car culture rules here just as much as anywhere else.

Growing up in Texas, though, gives me some appreciation for the accommodations made in Flagstaff.

Once again, it's nothing against the kids. In many ways, kids now are way better than they were when I started teaching 20 years ago. They're more into service, for one thing, and they work harder. But they're also less free, and that lack of freedom, in my view, makes them less resilient in the long run; many of them simply don't know how to adapt to new situations or solving new problems that they haven't encountered before, because they don't have any practice doing it. If you spend all of your time doing planned activities, this is a skill you never develop.

I'm not an old grouch blaming kids. I'm an old grouch blaming their well-meaning, terrified and somewhat totalitarian parents.

I find this to be true as well. Kids don't have much opportunity to get out there, make mistakes, and then learn from their mistakes.

However, I am also seeing a bright side among 20 somethings (my children's generation.) They are finding ways to cohabitate to save money, and not in traditional groupings. Perhaps a couple will take on other roomates in order to reduce costs, and friends will share a car. They aren't going headstrong on getting married, getting a house and a car right away. It's not economically feasible to do this, and they are adapting to the new realities.

I thought this still existed.

Safety City in Knoxville even has it's own sunsphere...
http://www.cityofknoxville.org/Images/safetycitysunsphere.jpg

Yep...

http://thesplendidsunshine.blogspot.com/2011/05/safety-city.html

"This past Friday I took my students on a field trip to Safety City. It sounds cheesy but it was actually pretty neat. The first half of the day, my students learned about road safety like which side of the road to walk, bike, or drive on. Then they got to go outside to the mini-Knoxville city and practice what they learned."

Only in America would they put a Shoney's and an Applebee's in a fake town. Is this to make the current crop of fast-food addicted "portly" children feel a little more at home?

Neat idea overall, but the whold corporate sponsorship, espescially from two places who are partly responsible for our current obesity epidemic, made me throw up in my mouth a little...

Only in America would they put a Shoney's and an Applebee's in a fake town. Is this to make the current crop of fast-food addicted "portly" children feel a little more at home?

Neat idea overall, but the whold corporate sponsorship, espescially from two places who are partly responsible for our current obesity epidemic, made me throw up in my mouth a little...

I wonder if these signs are acutally examples of paid-for product placement, or if they were simply put in for no charge by designers who figured that they would be appealing to kids.

I wonder if these signs are acutally examples of paid-for product placement, or if they were simply put in for no charge by designers who figured that they would be appealing to kids.

I'd guess they are paid-for, likely sponsored the whole thing. Those companies are big enough to pay for something like this and certainly a substantial amount of time/money went into building this, I can't imagine a municipality paying for something in this detail.

...espescially from two places who are partly responsible for our current obesity epidemic, made me throw up in my mouth a little...

By your definition, are there any merchants of food or drink, (restaraunts or supermakets, bodegas or 7-11's, taverns or farmers markets) that are NOT "partly responsible for our current obesity epidemic"?

If we want to predict what the next generation will be like wouldn't it be easier to simply ride by one of your local high schools and look at the studen parking lot? In my area if you go during the school year after school has started you will be hard presssed to find one empty parking spot. The College parking lot is full as well and in most cases the permits have a waiting list.

If we want to predict what the next generation will be like wouldn't it be easier to simply ride by one of your local high schools and look at the studen parking lot? In my area if you go during the school year after school has started you will be hard presssed to find one empty parking spot. The College parking lot is full as well and in most cases the permits have a waiting list.

Yes, but look at ehere they are building schools these days. Out in the sticks where the cheap land is, and usually on a high-speed road that becomes congested as soon as the school opens, if it wasn't already. Then they outlaw walking or cycling to school because it's "too dangerous", and every high school class seems to have at least one student, or sometimes a carload of them, who died in a car crash before graduation.

It's also clear from the demographic figures that many of these young people are doing the smart thing, and moving into walkable and bikable communities at the first opportunity.

Yes, but look at ehere they are building schools these days. Out in the sticks where the cheap land is, and usually on a high-speed road that becomes congested as soon as the school opens, if it wasn't already. Then they outlaw walking or cycling to school because it's "too dangerous", and every high school class seems to have at least one student, or sometimes a carload of them, who died in a car crash before graduation.

It's also clear from the demographic figures that many of these young people are doing the smart thing, and moving into walkable and bikable communities at the first opportunity.

Maybe but I also took the time to look up college parking permits and it was the same story. They are the next generation for most of us.

Yes, but look at ehere they are building schools these days. Out in the sticks where the cheap land is, and usually on a high-speed road that becomes congested as soon as the school opens, if it wasn't already. Then they outlaw walking or cycling to school because it's "too dangerous", and every high school class seems to have at least one student, or sometimes a carload of them, who died in a car crash before graduation.

It's also clear from the demographic figures that many of these young people are doing the smart thing, and moving into walkable and bikable communities at the first opportunity.

I also found this interesting chart on how drivers seem to have increased pretty much with the population since 1960-2009. The new drivers are coming from somewhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2009_Drivers_and_Vihicles_in_US.png

Maybe but I also took the time to look up college parking permits and it was the same story. They are the next generation for most of us.

I'm partially contradicting myself here, but this isn't true everywhere. Here in Seattle, most college students wouldn't even consider driving to school, even if they had a car, and many don't have cars at all. It's just too congested, too expensive, and too much of a hassle. However, many of these students aren't in love with bikes, either. My observation is that many of them are just walking or talking public transportation to school, and driving around or bumming rides everywhere else if they can. I don't see as many full-time college students using bikes as there once were; the people I see in their 20's using bikes seem mostly to be service workers and and people who work in the software industry, i.e., people no longer in school full time.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that the majority of people who regularly travel by bicycle in this town are well over 30.

I don't see as many full-time college students using bikes as there once were...

Totally anecdotal here, but in the last few years I've seen the bike racks get pretty crowded at the university where I'm employed in Honolulu, and it's not that they're filling up with rusty cast-offs. What this means in the greater scheme of things, or whether it means anything at all, I have no idea, but it does make me feel good as I ride around.

University of Louisville has limited parking. Some of the prime student housing is also limited to on-street parking. Many of the UofL students bike, walk, or take the bus.

Everything the student needs is within walking distance. They get free* bus transportation around town. Still, the old steel road bike and/or fixie is popular.

* Nothing is free - the college pays the bus service, the cost is included with tuition.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that the majority of people who regularly travel by bicycle in this town are well over 30.

Wait, do we live in different towns?