Classic & Vintage - C&V time-trial bikes?

Hey all,

I've always wanted one of the old time-trial frames from the days of curved seat tubes and 26" front wheels, but I've never even ridden one. This one's been relisted on fleebay a couple of times now, because I think his price is unrealistic for here, but it looks pretty good, and have a thing for Moser frames.

Has anyone got any experience riding one of these on a regular basis?

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250842187331&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNARL:IE:1123#ht_500wt_1156

wow, that price seems pretty low for here in Holland :) If I'd had the money I'd have asked you to facilitate immediately!

It's not bad, but I think he'd need to start the bidding a little lower. To get people interested. The guys I know here who are into this sort of thing will generally hang around for the super-cheap stuff. I know of one Daccordi tt frame that was picked up for 100.

Are these frames comfortable? Obviously not for long climbs and such, but what about a weekend ride with friends on relatively flat roads?

It's not bad, but I think he'd need to start the bidding a little lower. To get people interested. The guys I know here who are into this sort of thing will generally hang around for the super-cheap stuff. I know of one Daccordi tt frame that was picked up for 100.

Are these frames comfortable? Obviously not for long climbs and such, but what about a weekend ride with friends on relatively flat roads?

I don't recall my Pinarello TT frame being uncomfortable, but that was thirty years ago.

Can't imagine riding one anymore. Let's just say I'm not quite as streamlined........ :)

It depends. A modern triathlon frame is comfortable whilst in aero if you are fit correctly, but for the majority of people a Lo-pro position does not lend itself to a long and easy day in the saddle.

The geometry is built around a standard seat tube angle (73*) so when you get into the aerobars you stretch out and flatten your torso making your lower back muscles support your trunk. An extreme example is Obree in the Superman position, just to give you an idea of what I mean:

http://www.wolfgang-menn.de/pics/obree7.jpg

The stretched out position is further exacerbated by the extremely low head tube and base bar height of a Lo-Pro. These bikes are designed for one thing only, and that is for going extremely fast in an aero tuck at the expense of comfort.


Compare this to a ´steeper´ triathlon frame, built around a 78* ST angle, which enables the rider to keep the upper arms vertical in aero and support the trunk better, as Adriano Malori demonstrates without the bike:

http://cdn0.media.cyclingnews.futurecdn.net/2010/02/05/1/bettiniphoto_0045910_1_full_600.jpg

See that 90* angle from torso to upper arm, and from upper arm to forearm? That is what is currently considered the optimum fit for a long distance aero position.

and here´s a nice picture of Sindballe, reckoned to be the gold standard as far as tri positioning is concerned:

http://triathlon.competitor.com/files/2009/06/torbjornwf4zipp-640x428.jpg

He can hold that position all day and run a marathon off it.

I think a weekend ride on flat roads..... would be OK, there would be better tools for the job though, plus you would be constantly having to wait for your friends. Hope this helps!

I think a weekend ride on flat roads..... would be OK, there would be better tools for the job though, plus you would be constantly having to wait for your friends. Hope this helps!

Ha, thanks! Yeah, I can imagine it wouldn't be the most comfortable, but they're so cool! I think I need to buy one just to get it out of my system. One of our regular routes in mostly straight (city to beach and back) and we do it at a pretty good pace, so it might be OK for that. But I hadn't really given too much thought to the fit, which I need to do. Perhaps I'll go see it.

Thanks.

a daccordi for 100 e? I must spend more time on the Italian eBay then! Or, better still, start living there and learn some Italian and scour the barns of cool colnago's/legnano's/pinarello's/ALANs...

a daccordi for 100 e? I must spend more time on the Italian eBay then! Or, better still, start living there and learn some Italian and scour the barns of cool colnago's/legnano's/pinarello's/ALANs...

You should! Italian eBay is a treasure trove.

It actually is pretty comfortable, compared to a 7" drop on a road bike. Much easier on the arms, weight is supported well, and you get good power to the pedals. Plus, it's much more aero. It freaks me out, control-wise, but that's something that can be learned easily.

Bianchigirrl has a beautiful curved TT Bertoni. I don't know if she's done any long rides on it.

Just what are we looking at? a Moser but what kind of frame? Components? I can't read Italian but it seems the seller is only telling us what size the wheels are and how much shipping is. it sort of looks like Campi parts but maybe a mix with Modolo calipers and hoodless levers.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqYOKkYE3RnBYMZ1BN85QweMYg~~_12.JPG


IIRC some of the companies that made TT bikes for the US made two models. a real topshelf one and one for the masses with an OK Tange frame and 105ish group.

Bianchigirrl has a beautiful curved TT Bertoni. I don't know if she's done any long rides on it.

Thank You. no I have not done much riding at all this this year but the Dr told me yesterday I can start the 'bike to nowhere' on friday and in about three weeks my MTB on the street. I can't wait to take this fabulous machine out for a spin though.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=207515&d=1308755501

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=207517&d=1308755522

the front wheel in this pic is just my MTB wheel, but I do have a real nice 28h wheel for it.

Just what are we looking at? a Moser but what kind of frame? Components? I can't read Italian but it seems the seller is only telling us what size the wheels are and how much shipping is. it sort of looks like Campi parts but maybe a mix with Modolo calipers and hoodless levers.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqYOKkYE3RnBYMZ1BN85QweMYg~~_12.JPG

IIRC some of the companies that made TT bikes for the US made two models. a real topshelf one and one for the masses with an OK Tange frame and 105ish group.

Hey Bianchigirll, this is some detective stuff! The ad is very poor; just the wheel size and telling you to collect it in person. I've asked for some bigger photos. I've never seen a Moser tt with this type of geometry – it's usually with a curved top tube. The font, which has changed slightly a few times over the years, seems the same as my 97 Moser. Components look to be campy, but that cockpit doesn't look original to me. I was admiring your Bertoni, by the way.

Thank You. no I have not done much riding at all this this year but the Dr told me yesterday I can start the 'bike to nowhere' on friday and in about three weeks my MTB on the street. I can't wait to take this fabulous machine out for a spin though.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=207515&d=1308755501

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=207517&d=1308755522

the front wheel in this pic is just my MTB wheel, but I do have a real nice 28h wheel for it.

I am SORELY jealous of this bike. I've been searching high and low for a Bertoni, let alone a Super Record TT bike. VERY cool. Sorry for the off topic post while I go clean the drool off my keyboard...

-Collin-

I am SORELY jealous of this bike. I've been searching high and low for a Bertoni, let alone a Super Record TT bike. VERY cool. Sorry for the off topic post while I go clean the drool off my keyboard...

-Collin-

Drooling is never off topic! That bike is amazing.

Agreed! Bianchigirl, your Bertoni TT is absolutely amazing! Do you know what year it is?

i love the look of the these old school TT bikes, before everyone started calling TT bikes Tri bikes these days (really hate that.) anyways, its high on my list of next projects, with luck a pinarello crono perhaps. problem with these machines are that you can't really take them out on a sunday stroll and look cool unless you're going mach 1. even on my cervelo P2C now, i feel like i get hunted down by every road bike, even when i'm just out for a easy spin.

thank you!! I think it is an '87. I don't recall exactly. one of you guys really need to show me how to do a spreadsheet or I need to figure out how to turn my apprasail form into a PDF so I can fill them out

Collie, I think the rear wheel is a Spengle trispoke. I am sure the aerobar setup is an ITM - you can just make out the lettering - probably a CX2 or earlier. Nice bars if out of fashion now.

Edit - that RW is defintiely a Spengle. Nice wheel.

Bianchigirl, best of luck riding that beauty around.
It is absolutely, utterly, 100% crying out for a Shamal HPW12 front wheel in 650.

+1 on the Shamal. Those things look sweet on the right bikes.

I know nothing of these Spengles you speak of. They're good? To be honest, I know nothing of any wheel that doesn't have wire spokes.

Yep, solid wheel, good reputation. All the trispokes are robust with the exception of the Mavic 3G, where the braking surface has a reputation for fragility (it's basically a track wheel). Good job really as they are untruable. The Spinergy 4-spoke wheel (Rev-X?) has a reputation for self-destruction.

There are plenty of Spengle trispokes still being used on the triathlon scene here in Germany.

The company appears to be no more.

Yeah, I couldn't find out anything about them online.

Anyway, the seller's dragging his heels (or maybe his knuckles) on emailing me a proper photograph.

Spengle's have quite a following here. no excuse not to buy this lovely bike!

Spengle's have quite a following here. no excuse not to buy this lovely bike!


C&V peer pressure! The worst kind. Hopefully he'll send me a good pic or two in the morning.

Here's one for you.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/bik/2456750036.html

And here are a few of mine. I kept the Fuji, which is actually comfortable to ride. The 24" wheel bikes were more of a challenge.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0093r.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0023.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_2746a.jpg

I always liked this style, early Alf Engers using a fixed gear time trial machine.
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/riders/engers1.jpg

I have one road version which was built by the guy that supplied the Australian Olympic team in the 80's. It is quite comfortable to ride but it does have a tendency to want to track straight which is a little strange at first - but you do quickly get used to it.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x300/garyf5354/DSC00141.jpg

IIRC some of the companies that made TT bikes for the US made two models. a real topshelf one and one for the masses with an OK Tange frame and 105ish group.

I remember lots of messengers in Boston riding those entry level TT bikes. They sure looked cool, but many had 26" or 650 front wheels necessitating carrying two spare tubes....

I loved the curved tubes, and the "tilted down" wedge look. They just look agressive and fast just locked up to a parking meter.

:lol:When I read Vintage TT bikes I was thinking more
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The newer stuff is kinda cool too.

Bianchigirrl has a beautiful curved TT Bertoni. I don't know if she's done any long rides on it.

nice sig! I probably shouldnt be but I'm flattered :)