Advocacy & Safety - pepper spray

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iconicflux
06-23-11, 07:23 PM
This last weekend I got attacked by dogs. I'd just stopped at the top of a climb that had a short descent and then another climb so trying to outrun them going uphill was going to be a no-go. Fortunately, I managed to hurt their ears with my airzound horn enough to make them back off from about 2' to about 10' and I got the bicycle between us. From there it was a standoff where if I made a move to mount my bike, they'd make a move for my foot/bicycle, I'd have to blast my horn, and they'd back off again. This kept going on for 15-20 minutes until their owner finally heard my horn and my yelling at his dogs. (You can only imagine the profanity laced tirade I gave him.)
I'm seriously considering getting pepper spray to use the next time one or more dogs does something like that so I can leave them with some long-term memory to not try that again.
Does anyone here carry pepper spray on your bike? have you used it? how big of a can do you need?
Thanks!
Pscyclepath
06-23-11, 07:28 PM
Several of my friends carry pepper spray for sundry reasons. Those who have attempted to use it while riding either wound up spraying themselves with it (bad juju), or worse, spraying their riding buddy/buddies with it (worse, since they're likely to beat your azz once they get over the spraying).
Even the postal workers don't wind up using it much.
10 Wheels
06-23-11, 07:30 PM
These have a range of about 35 feet.
http://www.misdefenseproducts.com/Mace-reg-Pepper-Guns-Sky-Blue-p-17032.html
Good Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LogNotching#p/u/33/hDygM2HEoPw
Digital_Cowboy
06-23-11, 07:33 PM
This last weekend I got attacked by dogs. I'd just stopped at the top of a climb that had a short descent and then another climb so trying to outrun them going uphill was going to be a no-go. Fortunately, I managed to hurt their ears with my airzound horn enough to make them back off from about 2' to about 10' and I got the bicycle between us. From there it was a standoff where if I made a move to mount my bike, they'd make a move for my foot/bicycle, I'd have to blast my horn, and they'd back off again. This kept going on for 15-20 minutes until their owner finally heard my horn and my yelling at his dogs. (You can only imagine the profanity laced tirade I gave him.)
I'm seriously considering getting pepper spray to use the next time one or more dogs does something like that so I can leave them with some long-term memory to not try that again.
Does anyone here carry pepper spray on your bike? have you used it? how big of a can do you need?
Thanks!
I don't carry anything, but I would like to carry a tazer, the kind that fires it's projectiles. I'm guessing that that would work against dogs or any other animal.
Several of my friends carry pepper spray for sundry reasons. Those who have attempted to use it while riding either wound up spraying themselves with it (bad juju), or worse, spraying their riding buddy/buddies with it (worse, since they're likely to beat your azz once they get over the spraying).
Even the postal workers don't wind up using it much.
Yeah, I can see that being a major drawback and a good reason not to use it. And instead using the aforementioned tazer gun.
iconicflux
06-23-11, 07:55 PM
I was thinking something like http://www.udap.com/product.htm. I totally get that it would probably sting if I got it in my eyes but that's better than crashing or letting a dog learn that it can chase cyclists without any negative consequences. With one of the cans from the link, I may have enough for the damn owners too...
I don't carry anything, but I would like to carry a tazer, the kind that fires it's projectiles. I'm guessing that that would work against dogs or any other animal.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/10/taser-xrep-up-close-and-pricing/
And, of course, so you don't have to lug around a full size shotgun:
http://safetyharborfirearms.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=7
I used to use a frame pump, back in the days when they went between bottom-bracket and top-tube. I could get it out fast enough to crack some dog-noses.
GeoBigJon
06-23-11, 08:06 PM
I don't carry anything, but I would like to carry a tazer, the kind that fires it's projectiles. I'm guessing that that would work against dogs or any other animal.
They are very effective on dogs, I have shot a few pit's that needed shocking but not death, if you miss you still have the end of the Taser you can drive stun them but that is too close for comfort for most.
Forgot to add, if you use pepper spray plan on getting a dose yourself, might want to try it on yourself first and see if you can function when you get blow back .
iconicflux
06-23-11, 08:16 PM
Pepper gel may be the perfect thing since it stays together and turns into a liquid shortly after contact.
http://www.mace.com/personal_defense/mace-peppergel-magnum.html
I use Halt spray and have 100% confidence in it. Only spray dogs that are actually attacking, and wait until they are CLOSE before you spray. There are many stray dogs where I ride. I won't leave my driveway without it.
I will also spray any dog that habitually chases me. Three years ago I had a dog that chased me when I rode past it's house. One day it jumped in front of me and we crashed. I now have a plate in my shoulder. I'm not about to let anything like that happen to me again. Protect yourself.
iconicflux
06-23-11, 09:12 PM
I've thought about halt (.35% OC) or halt 2 (1% OC) but they have a very wide dispersal don't they?
Thanks,
Pepper Spray is a good tool, but just like with people, it doesn't always work on the target. There is also a good chance you will get yourself as well. Every time we used it in the PD, one of us always got hit. It sucked.
If you are going to use it, take a training course and get yourself sprayed. It will let you know that you can function if you get yourself and be good for liability reasons...just in case.
Chris516
06-23-11, 10:51 PM
While I appreciate(not ignoring) the fact that the OP was attacked, I still wouldn't use pepper spray or a tazer gun.
IMHO the owner is worse than the attacking dog. Because, While the dog still thinks independent of their owner, there are still those owners that teach their dog to attack cyclists'.
iconicflux
06-23-11, 11:10 PM
I agree with you Chris. If it worked and were legal, I'd spray the owner instead of the dog if for nothing else than breaking the leash law. Fortunately, I don't think this one taught their dog to attack cyclists. I think this just happened to be a case of opportunity. Some dogs you can just tell are going to do their best to get you no matter what. These didn't have that feeling of maliciousness. It was more like, "SQUIRREL! Chase it! Get it!"
If I thought for a moment these dogs were trying to seriously injure me, I'd have started documentation to prove they're "dangerous animals" by now.
Northwestrider
06-23-11, 11:19 PM
I have used pepper spray years ago while jogging when a lone dog came after me at close quarters. That one time I received no blow back, guess I was lucky, but there was no wind. It worked great. A tazer would only work on one dog, correct? I'm usually more concerned about dogs in a pack. I've been lucky so far while on a bike.
I used to use a frame pump, back in the days when they went between bottom-bracket and top-tube. I could get it out fast enough to crack some dog-noses.
I keep hoping Monadnock will make a heavy duty frame pump to the standards of their expandable batons, since carrying an "instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument" is illegal in TX. (Improvising with a tool that happens to be very clublike when the need arises is fine; I used to have a 4C Maglite clamped to my top tube and the most any cop ever did was ask me to turn it on so he could verify that it was really a flashlight and not just a club in disguise :rolleyes: )
I don't even care if it ends up being a 2-3 pound pump. That just makes it more effective as a doggie-polo mallet.
From there it was a standoff where if I made a move to mount my bike, they'd make a move for my foot/bicycle, I'd have to blast my horn, and they'd back off again. This kept going on for 15-20 minutes until their owner finally heard my horn and my yelling at his dogs. (You can only imagine the profanity laced tirade I gave him.)
save the pepper spray for the dogs' owner. for the dogs, throw a stick (through the owner's window).
most domestic dogs respond to "NO!" and/or "SIT!" if you really mean it. can you say it like you really mean it?
speaking from first-hand experience, if things do get nasty with a dog and it starts biting (and it's not a pit-bull) shove your hand down its throat as if your reaching for it's heart. this is not what they expect while attacking and gives them reason to back off in a hurry. i've heard stories that it's possible to put a dog in a headlock with one arm, shove your fist into its mouth, and choke it. the harder you shove, the less it wants to bite and the more it wants to get away from you.
some of the nicest and sweetest dogs i've ever met were pit-bulls, most of them are like giant puppies, but if one of them attacks you (or someone else), your only option is to slit it's throat (from ear to ear, and deep, like you're trying to remove its head) and hope that it dies before you do. while your waiting for it to bleed out, a few stabs towards the heart and lungs might speed things up. i wish there was a better way, but i'm not aware of any.
edit: if you shove your hand into a dog's mouth you will get bit. you have to be prepared for that or else instincts take over and you'll try to pull your hand away and get bit worse.
Digital_Cowboy
06-24-11, 03:05 AM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/02/10/taser-xrep-up-close-and-pricing/
And, of course, so you don't have to lug around a full size shotgun:
http://safetyharborfirearms.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=7
If that's the one that I think it is, the local news did a story on them not too long ago and they made it clear that they were only available to law enforcement.
Digital_Cowboy
06-24-11, 03:11 AM
While I appreciate(not ignoring) the fact that the OP was attacked, I still wouldn't use pepper spray or a tazer gun.
IMHO the owner is worse than the attacking dog. Because, While the dog still thinks independent of their owner, there are still those owners that teach their dog to attack cyclists'.
Agreed, but whether or not the dog was trained to attack cyclists or not. IF one is out in a rural area when attacked it could be hours or maybe even days anyone finds the cyclist that was attacked by that "friendly dog." So when confronted with an aggressive appearing dog the best course of action is to neutralize the threat as soon as possible.
Digital_Cowboy
06-24-11, 03:14 AM
I agree with you Chris. If it worked and were legal, I'd spray the owner instead of the dog if for nothing else than breaking the leash law. Fortunately, I don't think this one taught their dog to attack cyclists. I think this just happened to be a case of opportunity. Some dogs you can just tell are going to do their best to get you no matter what. These didn't have that feeling of maliciousness. It was more like, "SQUIRREL! Chase it! Get it!"
If I thought for a moment these dogs were trying to seriously injure me, I'd have started documentation to prove they're "dangerous animals" by now.
I also agree that the dog(s) are just doing what comes naturally to them. There is a dog park that I pass everyday on my ride. There are more than a few dogs within the park that I think are herding dogs. That give chase "every time" I pass the dog park.
I know that I am in no danger from them (unless they cleared the fence and started to chase/heard me), and it's fun watching them stop short of the fence.
sudo bike
06-24-11, 05:51 AM
I carry it and have had to use it on a pit bull once. I wear gloves, so didn't get any on my hands. Be wary of the wind and how it relates to you before you spray. It worked well... stopped him in his tracks. I would think that even if it doesn't stop a dog, it will at least mess it's senses up enough to give you a better chance at getting away. For quick use, I put a velcro strip on the stem and another on the bottle. Quick and easy, and I think that helps prevent you from spraying yourself or getting it too late. I can just rip it off the stem, slide the lever into the "armed" position with my thumb and fire away with only one hand and minimal fumbling.
Dealing with a dog attack and dealing with a dog owner are two seperate things. Seems like people who discourage the use of Halt haven't tried it, or didn't use it when the dog was up close. If it's even breezy and you unlease a 10 foot spray, then you have a good chance of getting some on yourself. Most dogs I've sprayed are only a foot or two away - the ones that get in your "bubble".
The only dog owner I've dealt directly with was the one who caused my accident. Usually, you don't have to deal with the owner. Get the dog good one time with Halt and they leave you alone after that. Some will still bark at you, but from about 50 feet away.
I had one owner glare at me as I rode by after Halting his dog but I think he knew he should be keeping his dog under control. And he has ever since.
Roughstuff
06-24-11, 09:23 AM
When I was on my world tour, where pepper and other sprays were not available and where you had to worry about dogs carrying rabies and distemper in many places, I purchased a riding crop, very similar to what you see jockeys whip their horses with. (And your local dominatrix might show you other uses as well).
It is lightweight and easy to wield, and intimidating even before it is used. I even used it to scare away kids who chased me in Nicaragua and El Salvador; so it has multiple use.
Bekologist
06-24-11, 09:27 AM
One of the few effective ways to fight a dog if you don't have a big stick is to get it in a head lock.
Its never any fun wrestling an angry, attacking dog into submission.
I suggest pepper spray. practice taking it out and spraying it while riding. You can hit a dog with it. the dog will stop. I've done it.
i keep pepper spray next to my Ulock mount on my seat tube on my tour bike, it slides out of the pumptie with a firm tug, can be easily accessed while riding, and rests on the U-lock bracket.
I_like_cereal
06-24-11, 09:39 AM
I carry mace and will use it on a human or dog if I have to.
Remember there are 3 kinds of mace. Cloud, stream, and foam. Cloud is bad in the wind, stream requires good aim, and foam is just nasty, but you still need to aim.
FWIW, foam sprays can cause second degree burns on people that are allergic or sensitive to peppers.
I personally carry liquid. I put a little of it in my eyes and boy howdy I would not like to get hit full on with that. The plus is that it is oily and will probably strip paint off a car if I had to spray an idiot throwing something at me. At the very least it would get onto his fabric and stink up his car.
KBentley57
06-24-11, 09:56 AM
I bought three small bottles of some cheapo spray on ebay. However, after I bought it, I haven't seen a dog since my last encounter. I keep it in my pocket, but the velcro on the handlebar sounds like a great idea. I used up about half a bottle just spraying it for fun, teaching my wife how to use it, and aiming. I'm not sure I could reliably hit a dog 50% of the time until it was within about 3-5 ft of me, but I guess I won't use it until there is no other option. It's a good peace of mind to know that I have at least something that could ward off most mammals :)
I have used a frame pump to good effect. A dog will almost always slow down when I wave the pump at the which gives me time to get away. But frame pumps are things of the past.
Another thing that works well is just squirt some water at them from your water bottle. The dog will brake to avoid the stream giving you time to get away.
Also just having some speed will get you away from the vast majority of dogs. Few dogs can run down a cyclist who is going 20+ mph.
If that's the one that I think it is, the local news did a story on them not too long ago and they made it clear that they were only available to law enforcement.
It's amusing; I have 3.5" 00 buck magnum loads that will blow right through a brick wall (and numb your arm in the process with a light gun) but they don't want me having something nonlethal. I feel the same way about club prohibitions; I'm licensed to carry any handgun I want to, but a PR-24 baton would be a class A misdemeanor with no licensing available except for LE and security while on duty. There's no legally recognized way to use a gun for anything but deadly force (except to threaten deadly force, but that's nitpicking IMO) but a club is pretty much considered nonlethal unless you're swinging at the head or using it to strangle.
DeadheadSF
06-24-11, 11:26 AM
This last weekend I got attacked by dogs. I'd just stopped at the top of a climb that had a short descent and then another climb so trying to outrun them going uphill was going to be a no-go. Fortunately, I managed to hurt their ears with my airzound horn enough to make them back off from about 2' to about 10' and I got the bicycle between us. From there it was a standoff where if I made a move to mount my bike, they'd make a move for my foot/bicycle, I'd have to blast my horn, and they'd back off again. This kept going on for 15-20 minutes until their owner finally heard my horn and my yelling at his dogs. (You can only imagine the profanity laced tirade I gave him.)
I'm seriously considering getting pepper spray to use the next time one or more dogs does something like that so I can leave them with some long-term memory to not try that again.
Does anyone here carry pepper spray on your bike? have you used it? how big of a can do you need?
Thanks!
Glad you got away from that encounter unscathed. Yes, I do carry pepper spray, but I've never had to use it. Chances are that I wouldn't be able to get it in my hand in time to use it properly anyway (and like others have said, *don't* spray yourself!). I carry it just as much to fend off aggressive dogs as to fend off aggressive primates...
oban_kobi
06-24-11, 11:39 AM
When I ride in areas I know dogs will be, I bring cloud spray. Chances are, they're going to be a bit behind me, and we'll be going fast enough to counter any blow-back wind. I only had to use it once when a dog tried to bite my ankles off. The dog stopped immediately with a hilarious 'wtf' look on its face. Mine is rather huge though, borderline bear spray. I've been meaning to get a smaller stream one to carry while running.
Digital_Cowboy
06-24-11, 12:09 PM
It's amusing; I have 3.5" 00 buck magnum loads that will blow right through a brick wall (and numb your arm in the process with a light gun) but they don't want me having something nonlethal. I feel the same way about club prohibitions; I'm licensed to carry any handgun I want to, but a PR-24 baton would be a class A misdemeanor with no licensing available except for LE and security while on duty. There's no legally recognized way to use a gun for anything but deadly force (except to threaten deadly force, but that's nitpicking IMO) but a club is pretty much considered nonlethal unless you're swinging at the head or using it to strangle.
Yeah it is silly. A good friend of mine when I was in High School, was pulled over for speeding. He was going downhill and there was a lower speed sign in the middle of the hill. As the LEO was walking back to his patrol car he noticed a broken shovel handle in the back of my friends car. Without saying a word he takes the shovel handle and continues back to his car.
When my friend got to court he paid the speeding fine and than asked the judge about the handle. The judge took several points off of my friends license and made the cop pay part of the fine. The irony is that he was on his way to the hardware store to get a new handle.
Roughstuff
06-24-11, 12:51 PM
One of the few effective ways to fight a dog if you don't have a big stick is to get it in a head lock.
Its never any fun wrestling an angry, attacking dog into submission.
......
Not fun sounds like an understatement, Bek. Have you ever wrestled with a dog in this way and for this reason? It must have been amusing to watch....
toobspunk
06-24-11, 01:55 PM
I carry pepper spray anytime I am commuting. Rush hours cause motorists to act crazy. Its a runners pepper spray that straps around your hand, but it straps perfectly around my stem, easy access and never have to worry.
Harbor Blvd is notorious for trucks getting mad I am on the road, and then getting out of their truck further up and try to attack me. The pepper spray has stopped all problems as soon as someone sees me hold it up.
Just yesterday, I came across some wanabe gangsters tagging on the riverbed in broad daylight. I yelled when I passed and they continued. I turned around to take pictures of them, and as soon as they saw me rolling up with a camera in one hand and pepper spray in the other, they took off! One even tripped and tumbled down the embankment.
Bekologist
06-24-11, 02:11 PM
Not fun sounds like an understatement, Bek. Have you ever wrestled with a dog in this way and for this reason? It must have been amusing to watch....
amusing, if you like watching man and beast fight it out in a battle of supremacy. its no fun to watch a dog in pain while a person makes it submit. or be that person, honestly.
I have wrestled more than one angry dog into submission.
Not trained attack dogs or a pit bull -not much neck - but mean, angry dogs on the attack. A person needs to defend, then attack an attacking animal if they stand a chance in a fight. trying to scare animals away only works sometimes.
Guard dogs would be difficult.
for casual bike riding, a can of pepper spray will be much preferable.
Guitarrick
06-24-11, 05:21 PM
I carry a 4oz can of this http://www.tbotech.com/wildfire-pepper-spray.htm
I believe it's the hottest spray you can buy. 3 million scoville units is 10 times hotter than habanero. That's just insane. I've never had to use it (besides a test spray) and hope I never do, but it's there if I ever need it.
Also just having some speed will get you away from the vast majority of dogs. Few dogs can run down a cyclist who is going 20+ mph.
then the dog thinks you're playing, and it'll want to play again when it sees you, or someone else, on a bike.
when i had a dog in NC the quickest way to get it to go where i wanted was to crouch down like i'm ready to play, make a few false starts left & right, and then run where i wanted the dog to go. worked every time.
this is why the best advice for kids is to NOT run from dogs. they can't outrun a dog, and whether the dog is trying to eat them or play with them, running away will encourage the dog to chase them.
iheartbenben
06-25-11, 12:01 AM
I'm shocked nobody suggested it.
RAID WASP KILLER
It's got a 20 ft plus reach, it's chemical dense, and won't have the horrid wind effect that pepper spray or mace will have. They are very LIGHT agents, made to disperse RAPIDLY after contact. This wasp spray is liquid and evil.
If you are not using this on humans, it will teach the dogs a mean lesson. They remember you after one time, and it's less than 5 bucks a can. Pepper spray for animal reasons is absurd IMO, pepper spray was/is designed and used for human control, and seem to affect both parties adversely.
sudo bike
06-25-11, 01:32 AM
Why? It's non-lethal and generally leaves no permanent damage; just hurts like a *****.
iconicflux
06-25-11, 03:11 AM
wasp killer is made from pyrethrins if I'm not mistaken. Go read up on it on snopes.com. It may work but we'd have to test it out and it's hard to know if the damage would be permanent.
wasp killer is made from pyrethrins if I'm not mistaken. Go read up on it on snopes.com. It may work but we'd have to test it out and it's hard to know if the damage would be permanent.
i've seen permanent damage from dog attacks, so in and of itself i wouldn't rule out wasp spray on that count.
if the person responsible for a dog is negligent in their duties of keeping the dog from menacing passers by, then they have no right to complain about what you do to reasonably defend yourself. bonus points if it discourages the dog from trying again.
the problem is when someone takes you to court for blinding their "precious little" pure-bread show-dog... can you explain why you had wasp-spray on a bike ride? would a court consider that to be reasonable, given other available options for what you believed to be a threat? of course, if you're on your way home from the store and just bought it, that's what you've got... but if you're riding around on your bike with a can of wasp-spray at the ready it may not look too good.
Gharp23
06-25-11, 11:55 AM
Don't even bother with the cheap stuff. Get the best you can get, why not? why take the chance that it won't be strong enough or keep its shelf life. I highly recommend fox labs. It's the hottest you can buy on the market(5.3 mil shu), and very fairly priced. Same kind swat and other law enforcement use. A 2oz can is perfect for a bike I think.
http://www.redhotpepperspray.com/fox-labs-pepper-spray.html
nelson249
06-25-11, 12:54 PM
I agree with you Chris. If it worked and were legal, I'd spray the owner instead of the dog if for nothing else than breaking the leash law. Fortunately, I don't think this one taught their dog to attack cyclists. I think this just happened to be a case of opportunity. Some dogs you can just tell are going to do their best to get you no matter what. These didn't have that feeling of maliciousness. It was more like, "SQUIRREL! Chase it! Get it!"
If I thought for a moment these dogs were trying to seriously injure me, I'd have started documentation to prove they're "dangerous animals" by now.
Legally you can pretty much what you need to do to the dog but the owner, that's a different story.
iconicflux
06-25-11, 05:04 PM
Yep. As I said.. if it were legal... then I'd probably do it just to make a point.
Legally you can pretty much what you need to do to the dog but the owner, that's a different story.
buzzman
06-25-11, 05:53 PM
Funny, to see this thread as I've got a new neighbor down the road in my very rural neighborhood where I live in the summer and he's got a fast and furious pit bull.
Sometimes he's tied up (the dog, not the neighbor;)) in the backyard but not always. The problem is I have to pass this house on every road ride I take and it's a steep descent of about 8% for 2 miles. That means I'm speeding past the house on the way out and crawling past it on the way home, often at the end of a 134 mile ride from Boston.
My usual strategy is my water bottle, which on my last ride was thankfully still 1/2 full and worked well enough to keep him at bay as I ground up the hill. However, I'm often dead out of water at the end of a long ride and I'd have no defense against this little monster other than my love of dogs but I find it near to impossible to woo and make friends with a dog under these conditions.
The other challenge is on the descent. I'm usually going almost 40 mph as I round the slight curve at this house and if he spots me before I reach the house the vector from the backyard to a meeting point on the other side of the house means he'll burst out at the last minute without me seeing him. My biggest concern is a collision.
I've spoken to the owner as I rode up hill the last time as he was attempting to restrain the dog and I was hurling water at it- basically begging him to keep the damned thing under control in the future. But this is the second time the owner has come out to get the dog so I have little faith in his willingness and/or ability to control this thing.
I've got some bear spray at home but it's like riding with a fire extinguisher strapped to your waist. So here's my latest:
I'm in the Dollar Store with my wife and they have a huge cheap version of a Tabasco like hot sauce for a buck. I bought that, then they had cheap canisters of cayenne pepper and a big bottle of white vinegar. So, for $3 I mixed up a special water bottle just for my little friend. It means sacrificing one water bottle holder but I think it's worth it. I suppose I could put it in a squirt gun or a spray bottle but the water bottle is accessible, easy to hold and the spray is just right and not likely to clog.
I haven't had to use it yet but when I do I'll give you a report.
Digital_Cowboy
06-25-11, 07:31 PM
wasp killer is made from pyrethrins if I'm not mistaken. Go read up on it on snopes.com. It may work but we'd have to test it out and it's hard to know if the damage would be permanent.
If the dog's owner is "dumb" enough to allow it to run free and it attacks someone why shouldn't that person be able to inflict permanent damage to the dog?
Digital_Cowboy
06-25-11, 07:43 PM
i've seen permanent damage from dog attacks, so in and of itself i wouldn't rule out wasp spray on that count.
if the person responsible for a dog is negligent in their duties of keeping the dog from menacing passers by, then they have no right to complain about what you do to reasonably defend yourself. bonus points if it discourages the dog from trying again.
the problem is when someone takes you to court for blinding their "precious little" pure-bread show-dog... can you explain why you had wasp-spray on a bike ride? would a court consider that to be reasonable, given other available options for what you believed to be a threat? of course, if you're on your way home from the store and just bought it, that's what you've got... but if you're riding around on your bike with a can of wasp-spray at the ready it may not look too good.
Sadly, we've seen too many images in the news of the results of dog attacks. And again, sadly all to often those injuries result in permanent sometime life altering damage to the person attacked.
Agreed, that would be like the dog owner trying to sue the driver of a car for hitting and killing the dog that they allowed to run free.
Which would be better "blinding" someone's "oh so expensive" show dog that they allowed to run free, or someone pulling out a .22 6-shooter and killing it? IF they truly cared for their dog they would not have allowed it to run free in the first place.
Anything that happens to their dog while it is running free is their fault and no one else's. In that Judge Judy clip, Judy pretty much made that clear when she told the owners of a dog that had attacked a cyclist that they were responsible for it's actions as they didn't it have it properly restrained.
The owner's "defense" in part was:
a) the cyclist was riding 40+ miles away from home (why they thought that was a valid defense I don't know)
b) their dog HAD been leashed, but had slipped it's collar so therefore (in their mind) they weren't responsible
At one point towards the closing the wife had asked "So if I'm backing up in my car out the driveway and had hit him I'd be at fault?" Judy didn't answer, but the short answer is "YES, she would have been at fault because as someone who is backing out of her driveway it is HER responsibility to make sure that it is safe to do so."
Oh, and why one might have a wasp spray with them on their bike? They could be riding a trail that is known to have wasp nests and they're "helping" the city/county by spraying them, or they as has been suggested coming home from the store to deal with wasps at home, or they could be taking it to a friend/family member who needs some wasp spray.
There are a number or reasons for a person to have a can (or more) of wasp spray with them on their bike. And given that the person has allowed their dog(s) to run wild do they really have a legal leg to stand out if their dog is injured or killed by a cyclist defending themselves?
Guitarrick
06-25-11, 08:11 PM
Don't even bother with the cheap stuff. Get the best you can get, why not? why take the chance that it won't be strong enough or keep its shelf life. I highly recommend fox labs. It's the hottest you can buy on the market(5.3 mil shu), and very fairly priced. Same kind swat and other law enforcement use. A 2oz can is perfect for a bike I think.
http://www.redhotpepperspray.com/fox-labs-pepper-spray.html
Wow, how did I miss this stuff? It's even made by the same company. Guess 3mil wasn't even close...
daredevil
06-25-11, 08:28 PM
I've carried it for grizz, never for dogs. Using it on the dogs owner? Now there's an idea.
Funny, to see this thread as I've got a new neighbor down the road in my very rural neighborhood where I live in the summer and he's got a fast and furious pit bull.
Sometimes he's tied up (the dog, not the neighbor;)) in the backyard but not always. The problem is I have to pass this house on every road ride I take and it's a steep descent of about 8% for 2 miles. That means I'm speeding past the house on the way out and crawling past it on the way home, often at the end of a 134 mile ride from Boston.
hitting a pit-bull on a bike would be like hitting a fire-hydrant, except a fire hydrant will never latch onto your neck until you go limp.
are there laws about keeping an animal under control and/or out of the street? call animal control?
hopefully some hot-sauce in the face will teach it that cyclists are not toys. but if it runs out into traffic, then you have to consider the dog's safety and well being at the hands of an irresponsible person, and call animal control ;)
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