Living Car Free - Motorcycle

It takes too long to bike. I can make it 10 miles easily, and when I get strong I'll get faster; but when we're talking a 50 mile trip somewhere, one way, that's not happening. It's 1 hour by car or 4-6 hours by bike? No.

Kawasaki 250R gets 51mpg. A Yamaha ... looks like they have a better made on/off road bike that gets 78mpg. I'd love a diesel.

I can't handle these things. I need to learn to ride a bicycle first, much less a motorcycle. Still, a car transports ... me. I don't need a whole car for that; strap an engine to some wheels. My car is becoming a fun toy as it is; rarely a necessity.

Motorcycle.

Less fuel.

Less maintenance.

Sounds reasonable, yeah? After I pay off my car, I'll have a $5000-ish emergency fund anyway, plus whatever, plus no car payment. (I bought my bike with my emergency fund, and also dumped the rest into my car payment... ~_~) I'll use the extra $700-ish a month (what? Why spend 5 years paying a car off?) to save up for a motorcycle. By then I should be able to handle a 2 wheeler enough to learn to safely ride a motorcycle in the city ... highway uh... later.

Oh, and I want some leathers in Pearl Izumi's screaming yellow, can I get that? :lol:

Look at a klr250 ...sweet bike, great fuel economy. Oh and take a course.

I got rid of my motorcycles some years ago, mostly because I was always too cold while riding them. The best mileage motorcycles I owned were too underpowered and rode like a brick. The ones that were powerful enough were way to tempting and only had 10 to 15 mpg advantage over a more comfortable compact car, not enough difference for being constantly cold.

Today, it's the bicycle for the short hauls around town, and the car for the longer distances.

I love motorcycles but don't own one now. My motorized 32.4 CC bicycle gets me around town when I choose to use it. If I were to buy another motorcycle it would be a replica of the Honda Cub. In the 70s it was called the Passport. Honda put a larger motor into it. Today the company called SYM makes one under their own name. They manufactured it for Honda for many years. It has a top speed of about fifty-six miles per hour with its 110 CC motor. It probably gets close to one-hundred miles per gallon.

Small light weight scooters or motorcycles are more fun to ride. They can be parked almost anywhere and they are really easy to push around when the motor is off. Putt-putting around town at thirty-five miles per hour is enough speed to get anywhere. Fifty CCs is enough to get around but if there are hills and plenty of overpasses a one-hundred CC motor would be needed, so as to not loose speed going uphill.

Yamaha makes something called he TW 200. It is a dual purpose motorcycle. It can go on and off road. It is an old design but it is known for getting about seventy miles per gallon. Some people who take it easy get more. That is amazing. The old Buell Blast was a 492 CC street bike that was advertised to get 69 miles per gallon. For such a large engine that was good. The reason I didn't purchase one a long time ago was that they vibrate a lot at lower rpm, which made it uncomfortable to ride.

Motorcycles definitely save money compared to cars, but; buying one to use along with a car won't save money. How many miles could you drive your car with $4000 worth of fuel?

Motorcycles definitely save money compared to cars, but; buying one to use along with a car won't save money. How many miles could you drive your car with $4000 worth of fuel?

Plus maintenance, plus buying another car when this one starts to fall apart after 200,000 miles, plus the LARGE amount of maintenance beyond 100,000 (because face it, a well maintained car lasts; but as cost-effective as it is, you're going to be doing a lot of expensive work after 100,000 miles)...

Maintaining a motorcycle is cheaper and easier. And hey, how far can I go with $1500 worth of fuel? Yet I'm buying a second bicycle...

The Kawasaki 250R may "only" get 51mpg, but it's about the minimum you'd want if you plan on taking any interstates. And even then, I consider it marginal for 70+MPH interstates. Yes, given enough road, it will do about 90MPH, but you have very little acceleration at speeds above 70.

And typically, motorcycles require more maintenance than cars on a per mile basis. Of course, some are worse than others. 600cc & 1000cc sportbikes are the worst. They also get about 20-30mpg. For maintenance, cruisers with low rpm engines are the best. Generally, the higher the RPM's, the more valvetrain maintenance required. And, the smaller the engine, the higher RPM's it will run.

Tire costs will run about the same as fuel. Motorcycle tires wear MUCH faster than car tires, and if you ride nothing but interstates, you will wind up with a flat section in the center, which will then require replacing sooner.

After riding motorcycles for many years, I've concluded that:
- They're a LOT of fun.
- On the practical side, their greatest usefulness is for short trips around town, which, incidentally, is the same usefulness as a bicycle.
- Despite the Gold Wing crowd, they're ill-suited for long trips.

The Kawasaki 250R may "only" get 51mpg, but it's about the minimum you'd want if you plan on taking any interstates. And even then, I consider it marginal for 70+MPH interstates. Yes, given enough road, it will do about 90MPH, but you have very little acceleration at speeds above 70.


As much as I enjoy riding 80mph down I-83 in my Mazda3, I can live in the right lane at 50-60. The only trouble with the right lane is vulnerability to idiots who wish to jump from the far left instantly, or crazy people getting on the highway (but I can see the on-rampers coming). I'm not really interested much in going 90mph.

A friend (who still rides the motorcycle he managed to kill himself on-- lost control, ejected off the bike at 40mph and landed head first into a tree) said the 250R handles better and is more forgiving than the Yamaha listed here, and recommended the Yamaha if I wanted to go off road, too. I'm leaning toward the 250R since he seems to know his stuff.



And typically, motorcycles require more maintenance than cars on a per mile basis. Of course, some are worse than others.


This is interesting. At most you save the body (much less of it to rust), doors (hinges), and suspension system (half as many wheels, single track profile) so I guess you're right. Still, it'd cost me $4000 brand new, versus the $16000 used 2004 Mazda 3S I bought with 44000 miles on it. I question the cost of maintenance here, but I don't know HOW to maintain a motorcycle ... rebuild the engine once in a while?



Tire costs will run about the same as fuel. Motorcycle tires wear MUCH faster than car tires, and if you ride nothing but interstates, you will wind up with a flat section in the center, which will then require replacing sooner.


Yeah I heard they had wear pattern issues.



After riding motorcycles for many years, I've concluded that:
- They're a LOT of fun.
- On the practical side, their greatest usefulness is for short trips around town, which, incidentally, is the same usefulness as a bicycle.
- Despite the Gold Wing crowd, they're ill-suited for long trips.

What's a long trip? If I want to go from Baltimore to DC, I'm not doing that on a bicycle. Baltimore to Ohio may not be a great idea on a motorcycle. There's no point in me using a motorcycle for a 10 mile trip around town; bicycle handles that quite well.

Here's a good guide to motorcycle maintainence.

http://askville.amazon.com/types-regular-motorcycle-maintenance/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=4853313

It's definitely not a "get on and go" type of machine, but it's not that bad at all. The pros outweigh the cons to me. They're a heck of a lot of fun and more convenient sometimes than pedal power.

I wouldn't discount the Ninja 250 just yet. IMHO, best 250 sport bike out there. I ride a Ninja 250. Awesome for starting out. Not sure what I'm going to do next though. Really admiring the Triumph Bonneville, but it's gonna have to wait until after college, I believe.

Eh, the Ninja looks fine. I'm not after a huge bike, just something to get me from point A to point B. Got my eyes on A Trek Portland first. That looks pretty similar to car maintenance, btw... in fact that's all easy stuff. Oil, filter, fuel, lube, battery...

Really, what's the worth of a motorcycle? Compared to a car?

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/7025/networthw.png

I got myself a used car back in 2010. I'm making $700 payments ... I'm not sure what my payment actually is, but it's not $700. As you can see above, I am poor as dirt. If I can avoid this situation in the future, pros outweigh cons.

This is why I don't own a house. One day I might buy a trailer and a $25,000 plot of land to stick it on, or something. Used? $5000, $1000... while everyone else is buying $250,000-$500,000 houses. I'll cry about this then, too. I don't like being put under, and I'm never going under by a car purchase again. If I keep the miles on the car and motorcycle light, but get both out every so often, I'm sure I can make 'em both last a while and save up a huge chunk of cash to buffer myself from disasters (like a dead car... that I can cancel insurance on and replace the day I decide I need a car).

Hmm... I wonder if there are advanced driving courses for motorcycles ... I like collision avoidance and skid recovery training for any vehicle I drive.

Get a small slightly used car, it will be cheaper per mile than most motorcyles. A hidden cost of motorcycles is the cost of tires....which was slightly more per mile, than the cost of gasoline for my 45 mpg Suzuki 650, when gas was $3.00/gallon. Insurance is also expensive, and it takes time at the start and end of the ride to put on all the gear (helmet, jacket, riding pants, riding boots) that you SHOULD be wearing.

Motorcycles are great fun, but a royal PITA for day to day commuting not to mention when the weather is bad

Get a small slightly used car,

The only car I own is a 2004 Mazda 3S with a manual transmission, had 44000 miles on it when I got it last year. Should have got a Miata. Don't feel like buying another car for a long time...

I'm used to stripping down to me knickers and swapping out everything for work clothes when I get to work. My normal non-bicycle shoes are Bellville 770 combat boots in patent black, which would work fine for a motorcycle (and will last until I die, likely).

As for tires, I guess that's true. I always put $200 tires on my car... damn thing has 17 inch wheels, 15 inch would be better since the good stuff costs $100. Throwing $600-$700 to change 4 tires every 2 years is a pain. I tend to run Goodyear Assurance TripleTred, but now I'm experimenting with slightly cheaper Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. These are not motorcycle tires, and of course I'd have to put in some research ...

Mind, I'm more concerned with tire performance than tire life. Tires tend to wear out by dry rotting for me; the only time I replaced a tire that was actually worn was when I was filling my 19mpg pickup truck 3 times a week, as I had a 68 mile one way commute for about 6 months to the next state. Now I commute to work by bicycle, so I don't drive much. I'm only after a motorcycle as something to get me to places out of my reach due to physical or time constraint reasons, but not requiring the hauling capacity of a car. The tires will probably rot right off that, too.

I have no friends; I don't spend a lot of time driving around.

Motocycles are too noisy.. IMHO. They contribute to too much noise pollution in cities and their combustion is more polluting than a similar capacity car. The noise pollution aspect is the fault of manufacturers. They should be taken to task for the voom-voom. I mean, the rest of us have a right to some silence once in a while.

I'd go with a bicycle/car solution. Although doing a lot of car commuting time might induce me to move closer to work.

Get a small slightly used car, it will be cheaper per mile than most motorcyles. A hidden cost of motorcycles is the cost of tires....which was slightly more per mile, than the cost of gasoline for my 45 mpg Suzuki 650, when gas was $3.00/gallon. Insurance is also expensive, and it takes time at the start and end of the ride to put on all the gear (helmet, jacket, riding pants, riding boots) that you SHOULD be wearing.

Motorcycles are great fun, but a royal PITA for day to day commuting not to mention when the weather is bad

Bicycle tires and motorcycle tires cost way more per mile than inexpensive car tires. Motorcycles 650 CCs and up are definitely not cheap to operate. Small motorcycles are worth it.

There comes a time when pleasure and convenience must be taken into consideration when it comes to spending money. They have value. That value is different for each of us. When I had a 250 CC Honda Reflex motor scooter it cost as much as the 500 CC motorcycles available at the time. The ease of use, cargo capacity, comfort, style, and fun factor were the reasons I preferred it to a conventional motorcycle.

The Ninja 250 was redesigned a couple of years ago. The motorcycle magazines love it and the newly redesigned Honda 250. They cost plenty but will surely give their owners great fun and fuel economy.

Commuting by motorcycle isn't a problem if one buys a good riding suit that can be put on or removed quickly. If it is difficult to get into or slow, your daily preparations will become drudgery. If your suit is very easy to get into then it won't be a bother at all. DON'T BUY ROADGEAR BRAND! The overall quality is not good. The customer service is really bad. They don't stand behind their products. Their stuff is made in Pakistan. That was my experience with them. I wish I would have spent more for an American made suit. Buy Aerostitch.

Parking a motorcycle saves sooo much time in a city compared to parking a car in a cramped downtown area. It makes up for the time needed to put on a riding suit. I parked free downtown because of where I could fit my motorcycles, whereas my coworkers paid $5-15 per day.

The only times I wasn't smiling while riding my motorcycles and motor scooters was in the rain and when cell phone drivers were nearby. I can't say that about driving a car, even a cool one.

I don't think I'll be parking a motorcycle downtown; easier to get there and get around by bike than anything else, really. Well, ok, a motorcycle is faster and flows with traffic more freely due to acceleration and easily sustained top speed; but once I'm actually downtown, ... I've passed rows of motorcycles in free-flowing traffic because traffic is so slow and bike lane is clear.

I used to spend $150/mo on fuel, now I put ... I didn't put gas in my car last month; I have a little more than 1/8 tank left, and my next drive will be to refuel. 263 miles on the car, 223 by the bike. April was 163 by bike, may was 179, June was 223.

Yeah, I get 23mpg, how is that $150 if it's only 2 tanks worth? Easy: I don't go out as much anymore.

My habits changed when I got the bike. I do small grocery trips at the Safeway up the street instead of weekly 70-90 mile circuits around the city. There's an H-Mart out west in Catonsville 11 miles away; a farmer's market up north in Timonium 16 miles away; and Binkert's meat market out east 10 miles away. It's a rough trip, and my habits of returning home repeatedly with perishables and only taking the highway or route 40 turned it into a less-than-optimal circuit.

I intend on buying panniers and getting rid of that rear basket. One pannier I want is an insulated top pannier: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014UQ93W/

As the Asian place is about 3 miles from work, I figure I can hit it after work once or twice a month, take the pannier and nab the fish and such I need, pack with ice packs. German meat market is a once or twice a month trip, too; the meat freezes well. This will add between 25 and 50 miles per month to my biking.

The minimum 16 mile each way trip to the farmer's market ... is rough, especially since I get perishables I don't freeze from there mostly, so I can't stock for the month. It's a huge time suck; the other two are not. If I added this in with the other two, twice a month, it'd turn out 64 miles by itself--total of 114 miles per month. By optimal path, it's a 46 mile circuit to do it all in one trip without returning home, still 92 miles. I was doing this 4 times a month (every Saturday) by car in about 2 hours, usually in a 70-90 mile trip depending on which way I went and if I stopped home in the middle, so another 300-ish miles a month. A whole tank of gas there.

One day, I want to actually make the whole circuit in one trip by bike; it'll be several hours of riding and shopping, though, and I'll be starting at a German meat market and ending at a place where I'm buying fish meat to be eaten raw. Really though, I'm going to slim it down. Bigger load coming back from the meat market and Asian markets. Maybe a month's worth of anything freezable. Asian market is a diversion on the way from work, not a separate trip.

The figure for the car should drop basically completely out at this rate. This is why I have my eyes on a better bike before aiming at a motorcycle: there's little to justify even a motorcycle, I just find it wasteful to get in a car designed to carry 5 people and plenty of cargo when I'm carrying just me.

I mean come on. Okimura Shihan commutes from Deleware to Baltimore by motorcycle and the man is like 300 years old.

Motocycles are too noisy.. IMHO. They contribute to too much noise pollution in cities and their combustion is more polluting than a similar capacity car. The noise pollution aspect is the fault of manufacturers. They should be taken to task for the voom-voom. I mean, the rest of us have a right to some silence once in a while.

I'd go with a bicycle/car solution. Although doing a lot of car commuting time might induce me to move closer to work.

I would add that in my 56 years of life, I have never seen a motorcycle in January, whereas year-round bicycling has become fairly common.

I have seen a couple of motorcycles in Montana during the winter. I think to myself that these guys are the luckiest riders in the world or they just fix their bent handle bars often, because I didn't see any damage on them. There were no studs on the tires. Amazing.

In New Orleans I rode motorcycles in the winter. It was cold but there wasn't any snow or ice.

I would add that in my 56 years of life, I have never seen a motorcycle in January, whereas year-round bicycling has become fairly common.

I used to work (in the Chicago suburbs) with a guy who rode motorcycles all year. He had a three or four winter bikes, with various winter tires, from just an old bike with regular tires for the dry weather, to one with a side car and studded tires for the really bad weather. Of course, he had more motorcycles than most people have underwear....

I used to work (in the Chicago suburbs) with a guy who rode motorcycles all year. He had a three or four winter bikes, with various winter tires, from just an old bike with regular tires for the dry weather, to one with a side car and studded tires for the really bad weather. Of course, he had more motorcycles than most people have underwear....

I hope he had lots of underwear himself--longjohns, that is. 20 degrees with a 70 mph wind factor? no thanks!

I've been riding motorcycles both on and off the road since I was 11 (I'm 49 now). I gave it up when I went car-free for several reasons.

First off, all the gear is a pain for every day use. Even a mesh jacket can be hot in the summer, and a snowmobile suit can be cold in the winter. Full face helmets (the only thing that should ever go onto your head if you're on a motorcycle) can get heavy after a long day. Boots year round and yes, your feet will suffer no matter what powder you use. Motorcycle pants and jackets, while comfy on the bike in the right position, are horrible off the bike, restricting movement and yes, they all are heavy.

Motorcycles, at least the ones I feel safe on on the freeway, don't burn much less gas than an economy car and generally, because smog laws don't apply, pollute more. Then there's the occasions where there are more than one bike going on a trip. This is where I felt really guilty. You may be getting 45 mpg or so, but when there's 4 or 5 of you getting that who could be in a car, or better yet a train or bus, you are actually usng even more fuel.

Smaller bikes like you mentioned, while fine around town, really don't accelerate fast enough to be safe on the freeway in my opinion. In multi-lane situations at speeds of 70 or higher, being able to accelerate away from trouble is just as important as being able to stop or maneuver well, and these under-powered bikes just don't cut it.

Me, these days I don't own a car or motorcycle. I prefer to ride my bicycle and take public transportation when possible. Slowing down my life has been one of the biggest benefits of this lifestyle!

Don't forget the safety factor. I've been in two motorcycle accidents on the street (off road crashes don't count, lol!) both times wearing full leathers and full face helmets. Wasn't hurt at all, thanks to the gear (had to replace the leathers and helmets both times). That said, I feel safer on my bicycle without a helmet than I did on a motorcycle in full gear. And statistics back these feelings up. Just one more thing to consider.

I have a 650CC DL-650. My Pelican cases fit reusable grocery bags just perfectly. Maintenance has been a non-issue compared to my old 97 GS500 but the bike is sub 10,000 miles.

Motorcycle touring is a lot of fun. I'm going to go bike and motorcycle only here pretty soon, in addition to my Car2Go membership.

I live in a country where motorcycles are the main mode of transportation. The biggest downside to owning a motorcycle vs. a bike vs. a car is how much higher the accidents stats are. Insurance companies charge higher premiums for motorcyclists compared to other motorists. Other than that, I love getting around in a motorcycle - but you just have to be extra, extra, extra careful.

For me, the shift to car free involved a lot more than just getting a bicycle and selling a car.

I very carefully selected where I would live relative to my workplace, public transit and other necessities (groceries etc).
I tend to make more purchases online so that UPS does my driving for me.
I merge a lot of trips together, stopping to buy a few things on my way home is the norm.

In todays society, and especially here in California, a lot of people seem to act as if they had no choice in where they work or live. "I could never do what you do - I live 65 miles from work"

The last time I moved in 2006 is cost $385 to go a half mile away. I've got much less stuff now and it could be done with me renting a truck, but I'd rather pay a moving company to move the furniture. I could move everything else in boxes like I did last time. It's easy for me to do it because I rent an apartment. I'm not sure if I'll ever want to own a house. I definitely want to own an RV, the ultimate portable tiny house.

It might not be so easy for somebody with a family to just move closer to work. Schools and other considerations for the rest of the family need to be taken into consideration.

I used to commute hard-core by motorcycle. For two years, every day regardless of weather (scratch icy days), 32.5 miles one way. After that I started telecommuting more.

Anyway, I rode an 1,100cc cruiser that netted 45-55mpg consistently. Also commuted on an FZ1 (1,000cc sportbike). It averaged 45mpg commuting. Both would eat a rear tire in 3,500 miles but I always bought the sticky tires.

Once you have a reliable USED motorcycle, own all the right gear for the weather, and do it EVERY stinkin' day, there's no way a motorcycle will cost more than a car even with the cost of rear tires. If it weren't true, poor nations with billions of people would all be in cars, not on motorcycles and bicycles.

Tip: Don't buy a motorcycle with engine covers (like sport bikes). Insurance companies charge more because of pretty fairings.
Tip: You don't have to pay big money for sticky tires.
Tip: You'll be in the fast lane because it will FEEL SAFER to pass cars than get passed by cagers on their cell phones. Guarantee it. And no matter what anybody says who doesn't ride, a motorcycle FEELS safer at 80mph than any car does. I can't explain why, it just is! :)
Tip: Any motorcycle...ANY motorcycle can get more than 35mpg. Most motorcycles will get you 45mpg or much more.
Tip: If you want to go more than 45mph comfortably, get at least 750cc. That's the minimum. A 750 twin ain't much for 70mph and you will have learned an expensive lession. In a twin get at least 1,000cc. Inline 4's will move you along well enough with 750cc.

Good luck!

ITip: Any motorcycle...ANY motorcycle can get more than 35mpg. Most motorcycles will get you 45mpg or much more.


Yes, but motorcycles are used almost exclusively by only one occupant, so that knocks down the actual economy figures per person--by a lot. Average occupancy of a car in the US is 1.9people, for a motorcycle it's almost half that at 1.1 occupants. That means you have to almost halve the mpg figures for motorbikes if you're doing comparisons.

Yes, but motorcycles are used almost exclusively by only one occupant, so that knocks down the actual economy figures per person--by a lot. Average occupancy of a car in the US is 1.9people, for a motorcycle it's almost half that at 1.1 occupants. That means you have to almost halve the mpg figures for motorbikes if you're doing comparisons.

The biggest motorcycles that get car like gas mileage are still more environmentally friendly because they weigh one third as much as a small car. Small to medium motorcycles or scooters weigh 180-450 pounds. even ridden solo they're saving resources compared to cars with two people in them. I've read in more than one place that half of the energy usage of a car happens when it is manufactured.

If we only talk about fuel mileage per passenger then cars can do better than medium to large motorcycles. A car with four people will do better than a Honda Metropolitan scooter that gets 93 miles per gallon carrying only one person.

I owned a Metropolitan scooter and it was fun. The thing about them is they're only operated at 100% occupancy. They can't be operated with less. Cars can be operated at one-quarter capacity or one-eighth capacity at any time for Suburbans. It's all the one person trips in cars that makes them seem so inefficient.

I used to get annoyed at seeing SUVs with one person occupancy. Now I just pretend that it's possible that the person just dropped off some people or is on the way to pick up several people.

Seeing more people on motorcycles will mean resources are being conserved during the manufacturing process. There's a whole lot less materials in motorcycles than even small cars.

Tip: Any motorcycle...ANY motorcycle can get more than 35mpg. Most motorcycles will get you 45mpg or much more.
Tip: If you want to go more than 45mph comfortably, get at least 750cc. That's the minimum. A 750 twin ain't much for 70mph and you will have learned an expensive lession. In a twin get at least 1,000cc. Inline 4's will move you along well enough with 750cc.

Good luck!
This doesn't make much sense to me. I've been from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia to Monterrey, Mexico on 650 and 500cc bikes. If you mean keep it pegged at 85 slaying miles, yes, a big touring bike is necessary but above 45? Any Rotax 650 V-twin (V-Strom, SV650, Gladius) is well well more than adequate.

To anyone starting out, start small, start used, take the MSF course.

I bought a 2002 Suzuki GZ250 as a leftover in 2003 for $2500. It's been great I have about 13000 miles on it. I can't make it get under 70MPG. I can do 75 - 80MPH on somewhat level ground (it's reving like hell but it will do it). The problem with a motorcyle is it's hard to carry things on it.
This would be great.
http://rideyourbike.com/images/xtracycle/xtramotorcycle.jpg

I've got an order in for an Empulse (http://www.brammo.com/empulse/) but it looks like they won't have them out until 2012 sometime. Not good for long trips but still good for trips that you don't have enough time to bicycle. I'll power it with my PV system.

I've got an order in for an Empulse (http://www.brammo.com/empulse/) but it looks like they won't have them out until 2012 sometime. Not good for long trips but still good for trips that you don't have enough time to bicycle. I'll power it with my PV system.

I've seen a couple of brands available these days (not in person). For some people they really make sense. As a cost saving vehicle compared to other motorcycles their only savings will happen if they last a really long time. When power controllers and motors can truly deliver long lifetimes then they'll pay for themselves in savings. That's why I don't own an electric bicycle. The controllers burn out too fast and they cost a lot of money. Maybe Brammo and Vectrix (http://www.vectrix.com/index.php) have it figured out. Tesla still had problems with the test vehicles they loaned to magazines a year after production started.

Does anybody remember the Sparrow three wheel electric one person car made by Corbin Motors? With three wheels they were classified as motorcycles. They looked great and ran fine. Still their controllers were wonky. A company in Ohio (Myers Motors (http://www.myersmotors.com/index.html)) bought all of their manufacturing facilities and moved them. They sold the new versions for $30,000 when anybody could buy a Prius for less.

Boots year round and yes, your feet will suffer no matter what powder you use.

I wear Bellville 770 boots and they are very comfortable in the hot summer.



Motorcycles, at least the ones I feel safe on on the freeway, don't burn much less gas than an economy car and generally, because smog laws don't apply, pollute more. Then there's the occasions where there are more than one bike going on a trip. This is where I felt really guilty. You may be getting 45 mpg or so, but when there's 4 or 5 of you getting that who could be in a car, or better yet a train or bus, you are actually usng even more fuel.


Yes, but motorcycles are used almost exclusively by only one occupant, so that knocks down the actual economy figures per person--by a lot. Average occupancy of a car in the US is 1.9people, for a motorcycle it's almost half that at 1.1 occupants. That means you have to almost halve the mpg figures for motorbikes if you're doing comparisons.

I've driven 47,000 miles since I was 16. I've biked 4 or 5 times more miles since March than I've driven any car with even a single passenger, ever. My car's been used a few times to haul things that don't haul on my bike--mainly a large Go board, and much stuff that I moved with (clothes), as well as my spin drier.

So aside from maybe 250 miles of driving in the past 10 years, the primary feature of my car is it allows me to listen to and sing along with music. It is effectively a rolling stereo system.

What slightly annoys me is all the 200-250 cc bikes that "are just enough for the highway," then the next model up is a big 650cc. Why not a 350cc? Ah well, the new Kawasaki 250 has more low-to-mid power in exchange for a little less peak HP, which will get you moving (more torque).

What slightly annoys me is all the 200-250 cc bikes that "are just enough for the highway," then the next model up is a big 650cc. Why not a 350cc?I totally agree with this sentiment.

Big cars or big motorcycles don't cost that much more to manufacture than smaller ones. The number of parts isn't that much more. It is just that usually higher priced cars or motorcycles have slightly better materials. They have some more metal too. The prices are just higher for the more popular or desired vehicles. The bigger they are the more the companies charge for them. That especially goes for motorcycles.

My ideal motorcycle doesn't exist. I don't know if it ever will. I want hydraulic valves, easy access to a twist off oil filter, easy access to the air cleaner, shaft drive, cast wheels (I hate cleaning spoke wheels), a fat flat seat, upright seating position, at least five inches of front and rear suspension travel, large fuel tank, triple tree mounted instrumentation, and an engine smaller than 600 ccs that is counter balanced.

I always thought upright seating on motorcycles was silly. Now that I ride my bike to work, and I've mis-adjusted the seat too forward, I'm finding that I indeed hate the upright seating position on bicycles. That's why I'm looking at road bikes and only looking at sports motorcycles... of course my taste in them is similar to my taste in sports cars (Mazda MX-5 Miata mmmm).

Motorcycles are better than automobiles overall as long as you look at the whole picture. Less raw material,less energy to make, less consumption,less of them and a smaller footprint. Statistics can be juggled to say virtually anything you'd like them to. There are "studies" stating they're "dirtier" than automobiles. Only when approached from the right angle. The average motorcycle engine is far smaller than the average automobile engine and covers less miles per year using less fuel so it'd have to be very "dirty" to eclipse the automobile's contribution to pollution. Not as green as a bicycle but far better for society than an automobile.

Sorry for the very long post. I really wasn't going to reply but there is a lot of information that has been missing in this thread!

I don't know where some of you people were getting your information from. Someone said 600-1000cc sportbikes only get 20-30mpg? Thats what my GSX-R600 gets at a track day racing full out. On the street I average 50mpg with my sportbike.

As far as maintenance goes, I have 22,000 miles on my 2008 gsx-r600 since I bought it new in August 2008, I get 7,000 miles out of my $300 set of tires, lube the chain once every 2 weeks (unless it rains), checked my valve clearance once at 14,000 miles which did not need any adjustment, changed my air filter twice, and everything else has been ticking like a Rolex watch with almost no maintenance required. As for not being "fast enough" because its only 600cc it accelerates from 0-60mph in 3.0 seconds depending on how much you weight and tops at 80mph in 1st gear faster than most cars get from 0-45mph. The 130HP that it makes is more than a Mazda Miata which weighs over 2,000lbs where as my motorcycle weights 420lbs. This motorcycle is built for performance! If you are only riding on the street getting a motorcycle with this performance is ludicrous. I only have this motorcycle because I go to track days on professional road courses with it and it doubles as transportation on the street. You can get much more economical machines that are still plenty fast and safe enough for the street without needing a large motorcycle.

Heres some examples:
DRZ-400 is a 400cc dual sport which gets 65mpg average. (they said my bike gets 42mpg but I've gotten over 50mpg on it). This bike also requires much less maintenance than my sportbike requires and you can get tires for it which will last around 8,000miles+ for $200 or less for the set. Its also a very capable off-road machine if you know how to ride off-road. Although for a dual sport I'd say its close to minimum of what you'd want for highway but I know people who have no trouble doing it everyday for their commute. You can go up to the DR650 if you want which is excellent on highway.
http://suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/DR-Z400/2011/DRZ400S.aspx?category=dualsport

Honda CBR250R. Gets 77mpg+ Even though this sportbike is only 250cc its still tops out around 100mph and accelerates plenty fast for the street. Its only $4,000 new. Honda used to make a 500cc but I guess the sales weren't good enough.
http://powersports.honda.com/2011/cbr250r.aspx

Kawasaki Ninja 250R is pretty much the same as the Honda but its been around longer. I know people who have downgraded to this motorcycle after riding big fast motorcycles their whole life because they found it more fun and enjoyable.
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Product-Specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=505

Sorry to make this long post on here but I'd like for you to get the right information before you decide. There is about $1000+ of gear that you should buy before riding one (helmet, jacket, gloves, pants, boots). Boots aren't 100% necessary but your ankles can be an easy joint to injure if hit the wrong way. It can get hot during summer but its ALWAYS going to be hot when its 100 degrees out. Mesh jackets can actually be cooler because they let air flow but keep the sun off your skin. Besides I'd rather sweat than bleed if I fall.

For winter riding you can get a heated vest/gloves, face mask along with the vents closed on your riding pants which will keep you plenty warm until about 10-20 degrees F. Just make sure to minimize the air that makes it down your jacket and on your neck. I do ride below freezing temperature but if there is any chance of ice I choose to drive. If I had a dual sport like the DRZ-400 you can have someone make studded tires for you and you'd be very surprised how much grip you'll have on ice.

Motorcycles are no more at risk of being in an accident than if you were riding your bike or in a car. Its up to your situational awareness to keep safe. If your not paying attention than you might get hit by other people who aren't paying attention. Besides the vast majority of motorcycle accidents are single vehicle accidents. That means the rider didn't get the proper training and wrecked on their own. Not all accidents can be avoided like people running red lights but most can be avoided simply by paying attention to other motorists around you! Also taking the MSF course to get your license is a great idea. Not only will you get a discount on insurance but you'll learn some good basic habits that you need for motorcycling (and a lot of the apply to bicycles as well). Motorcycling isn't for everyone but if you like bicycles chances are you'll like motorcycles too. You should be able to find quite a few used dual sports and a few Ninja 250s to buy pretty cheap.

If your going to be traveling alone than carpooling isn't a factor to consider for efficiency. Besides three reasonable motorcycles has about the same MPG as one car but the three motorcycles still take up less space and have less materials used so the environmental impacts are lower. Modern fuel injected motorcycles burn fuel just as cleanly as cars do. The small motorcycles like I mentioned are still carbureted, however their high fuel efficiency makes up for the difference. Also stock motorcycles ARE NOT LOUD. Its attention craving idiots who make them loud. You'll have a hard time hearing a stock DRZ-400 ride by you because its so quiet.

To the OP, you're on the right track if it's called the fun track. =)

I own two bicycles, a japanese sports bike, and a 4WD truck. What do I have the most fun on? Probably the sports bike but I am most gratified when I ride my bicycles. In opposition to some of the others posts, I get 40mpg driving aggressive and have only done an oil change every 2,000 miles for the low low cost of $10. The great thing about sportsbikes that most of the general public don't like is the advantage of doing the work yourself in maintenance still. You want to do a tune up on your 2011 Prius, good luck with that buddy.

Most motorcycle enthusiasts do the basic maintenance because it's so simple and easy which cuts down the labor cost. Even if I wanted to bring it to a shop, they only charge me $20 out the door for an oil change.

Tires are not expensive either in my opinion compared to the overall cost of ownership. 5 yr old Kawasaki Ninja goes for about $2400. Find me a car well equipped at that price that won't have maintenance or major repair issues. Tires at $250 for a set of two. Do the math. I can buy four sets of tires and it will still come out cheaper than overhauling a late 90's car.

Plus, motorcycles are FUN!!! (Lane split, no traffic, park anywhere, a sense of moving)

The current crop of 250cc motorcycles are pretty amazing. They can reach top speeds close to what my old Honda CB400F did.

Yes, they give you more range than a bicycle. But as another poster mentioned, it's cold on top of a motorcycle. So unless you are in the southwest, it may not be a year-round machine. And rain gets pretty painful at speed.

Definitely get yourself a full set of leathers. They will be expensive, but may hold you together should you try to investigate the possibilities of road rash. Take a riding course as well.

I admit my mind has been wandering towards motorcycles lately. But I think about my step-brother out riding his motorcycle when he got run over last year by a school bus that did a left turn, illegally. Bicycling is certainly no protection against being hit by a vehicle. But it seems that things can happen faster and harder on a motorcycle.

Definitely get yourself a full set of leathers. They will be expensive, but may hold you together should you try to investigate the possibilities of road rash. Take a riding course as well.
There''s a time or two I wished I was wearing leathers on my bicycle. :eek:

Gave up my motorcycle and miss it :cry:. It was my first ever brand new vehicle, a 2007 Suzuki Vstrom. That bike carried me everywhere, back and forth through my daily 60 mile commute, a 3 day, 1500 mile tour up through Canada, monthly jaunts with my biking buddies, camping trips, there was nothing me and that bike didn't do. Here's a few pictures for those interested:

https://picasaweb.google.com/108630912588048268595/MotorcycleDays?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCOqU5Ibpt6TJPQ&feat=directlink

I rode all year long, I used the same Olympia gear for the 5 years I rode, jacket and pants with zip-out liners and Redwing 980 motorcycle boots kept me dry on all but the rainiest days. Gerbing heated gloves kept my fingers toasty on the cold days. My fourth year on the bike and my wife finally got her own gear to ride with me.

Then I nearly crashed--guy in front of me slammed on the brakes, I locked up my rear wheel and would have slid under his truck if I went down. Thankfully I remained upright and just hit his rear bumper. Broke the fender, but that was it. He didn't even realize I hit him and kept going. I pulled over and spent a few shaky minutes contemplating where I was in life and my two toddlers and young wife back home. That planted the seed for the eventual sale. All the other excuses--the PITA gear, the maintenance, the lack of a side car for the kids--they were just that, excuses.

I replaced the fender and sold it to a lucky guy who was nice enough to send pictures of a tour he took her on a few weeks later--they'll get along just fine.

Now with new (to us) bicycles for my wife and I, and a trailer for the kids, I embark on a whole new adventure.

I got rid of my motorcycles some years ago, mostly because I was always too cold while riding them. The best mileage motorcycles I owned were too underpowered and rode like a brick. The ones that were powerful enough were way to tempting and only had 10 to 15 mpg advantage over a more comfortable compact car, not enough difference for being constantly cold.

Today, it's the bicycle for the short hauls around town, and the car for the longer distances.

Cold? What were you wearing, where were you riding, what were you riding?

I've ridden in sub freezing temperatures for up to 12hrs at a time and never felt a chill. If you're dressed properly you won't be cold. Oh and this was before I switched to heated clothing.

There is a ride I do every year called the crotona midnight run. It's the last weekend in February in NY, closest to the coldest day of the year. Starts at midnight, goes to 6am. Never had any trouble wearing the right gear.

And typically, motorcycles require more maintenance than cars on a per mile basis. Of course, some are worse than others. 600cc & 1000cc sportbikes are the worst. They also get about 20-30mpg. For maintenance, cruisers with low rpm engines are the best. Generally, the higher the RPM's, the more valvetrain maintenance required. And, the smaller the engine, the higher RPM's it will run.

Where are you getting your information from? My 17 or so Hondas, Kawasaki, and Armstrong required zero maintenance other than routine (oil, brake pads, e.t.c.). I think I owned roughly 40 motorcycle in the last 20 years. Sportbikes only fall into that scenario when children ride the crap out of them. I can't even look at a psort bike without getting backpain.

You sure you weren't riding a Harley?


Tire costs will run about the same as fuel. Motorcycle tires wear MUCH faster than car tires, and if you ride nothing but interstates, you will wind up with a flat section in the center, which will then require replacing sooner.

Again, none of that is actually factual. Firstly it really depends on the type of bike and type of tires. You can ride a rocket with ultra soft sport tires that cost $250 a pop and last you barely 3000 miles. But you can also ride an average sport tourer or cruiser using touring tires that cost half that price and can get up to 20k miles. I have roughly 24k miles on my front tire on my Concours and it doesn't look very worn. I have 27k miles on the back tire on my shadow and it looks like new. Got the tires for like $60 each through a dealer friend of mine. I recently spent well over $1000 on fuel, but then again that was a 5 month tour around the US. $1000 on fuel and $120 on tires. If you're spending the same on tires as you are for fuel you are either not airing them up properly, burning out constantly or keep running over nails. Stop doing that.


After riding motorcycles for many years, I've concluded that:
- They're a LOT of fun.
- On the practical side, their greatest usefulness is for short trips around town, which, incidentally, is the same usefulness as a bicycle.
- Despite the Gold Wing crowd, they're ill-suited for long trips.

I find them practical. I do not need to spend 3 hours driving around the block to look for a parking spot, nor spend $40 to park a car in NYC. I can get a months groceries in it (large panniers, top case). And they are great for long trips. My longest trip was only 5 months but many friends of mine have taken trips lasting YEARS circumnavigating the globe. I think you simply didn't enjoy it or were on the wrong bike. It's not for everyone I guess.

BTW I've been riding for nearly 20 years.

A friend (who still rides the motorcycle he managed to kill himself on-- lost control, ejected off the bike at 40mph and landed head first into a tree) said the 250R handles better and is more forgiving than the Yamaha listed here, and recommended the Yamaha if I wanted to go off road, too.

You can speak to the dead???????????? :D

Motocycles are too noisy.. IMHO. They contribute to too much noise pollution in cities and their combustion is more polluting than a similar capacity car. The noise pollution aspect is the fault of manufacturers. They should be taken to task for the voom-voom. I mean, the rest of us have a right to some silence once in a while.



Thats far from everyone and everybike. Thats usually the Harley crowd with their loud obnoxious pipes and they have to rev it up at every light because they think it makes them look cool. Believe me, not everyone is like that and there are plenty of us who ride quit non obnoxious motorcycle.

I would add that in my 56 years of life, I have never seen a motorcycle in January, whereas year-round bicycling has become fairly common.

Where do you live? I ride year round. I'm in NY. Heated clothing, big fairing and windshield make riding in sub freezing temps a non issue.

Yes, but motorcycles are used almost exclusively by only one occupant, so that knocks down the actual economy figures per person--by a lot. Average occupancy of a car in the US is 1.9people, for a motorcycle it's almost half that at 1.1 occupants. That means you have to almost halve the mpg figures for motorbikes if you're doing comparisons.

Nah, I can carry .9 people easily. Sometimes I even carry a whole person. Also sidecars are great for bringing the dog along.

My ideal motorcycle doesn't exist. I don't know if it ever will. I want hydraulic valves, easy access to a twist off oil filter, easy access to the air cleaner, shaft drive, cast wheels (I hate cleaning spoke wheels), a fat flat seat, upright seating position, at least five inches of front and rear suspension travel, large fuel tank, triple tree mounted instrumentation, and an engine smaller than 600 ccs that is counter balanced.

a 600cc Honda shadow has all that. Actually, most 60's-70's standards do too. You might also like the bonneville.

doh, missed the shaft drive part, ok then, a mid 80's honda nighthawk s is shaft driven as has the rest of that. it's a 650 though, can you deal with an extra 46 or so cc's?

a 600cc Honda shadow has all that. Actually, most 60's-70's standards do too. You might also like the bonneville.

doh, missed the shaft drive part, ok then, a mid 80's honda nighthawk s is shaft driven as has the rest of that. it's a 650 though, can you deal with an extra 46 or so cc's?

The Bonneville has spoke wheels and weighs way too much. The Honda does have some of the things I want, but; the seat slants forward and the foot pegs are almost under the rider, which makes the rider lean forward a bit. I also don't want to buy something old that would nit pick me do death. The Nighthawk also weighs nearly five-hundred pounds.

These days I prefer scooters or other tiny motorcycles. Two-hundred-fifty CCs is the most I would want now. My Kawasaki Vulcan was fun and quick enough for me. It just wasn't as comfortable as I wanted it to be. It had only three inches of rear wheel travel and one inch was used up as soon as I sat on it. When I had a dual purpose Honda XL 250 S I could ride over rumble strips on the side of the road without even feeling the bumps. Riding it off road was usually a blast too. Unfortunately dual sport bikes cost hundreds more than strictly street motorcycles with the same engine size.

Nah, I can carry .9 people easily. Sometimes I even carry a whole person. Also sidecars are great for bringing the dog along.

You are quite the enthusiast. :)

I have a scooter. I like the low center of gravity, the step-through frame, and the automatic transmission. I use it when I am going farther than I'm comfortable with on a bicycle or if I don't want to get there all sweaty & disgusting.

The Suzuki TU 250 is a great small motorcycle. Not as fast as the other 250's but still excellent around town. I am very happy with mine.