Fifty Plus (50+) - Contador

Not a popular champion. He'll throw a team mate under the bus for his own ends. Last year, Andy Shleck (sp?) dropped a chain on a mountain-top finish. Contadore didn't wait, but rode harder. Shleck lost the Tour (2300 miles) by the exact amount of time it took to get the chain back on according to Versus' pre-Tour program.

They let him race and the media seems to be OK with that. Hanging Armstrong seems to be their preoccupation.

Al

Contador Chases a Title He Might Lose in Court

By JULIET MACUR

The Tour de France begins Saturday on France’s western coastline, and the best overall riders there will share the same goal: to win cycling’s most prestigious race and beat Alberto Contador, the Spanish rider who has dominated the event for the past two years.

But this year, in a strange twist, a second-place finish to Contador might not mean defeat. Even after the Tour ends in Paris on July 24, that runner-up might still have a chance to claim the 2011 Tour title.

Contador tested positive for clenbuterol, a banned weight-loss and muscle-building drug, at last year’s Tour, and a hearing scheduled for Aug. 1-3 at the Court of Arbitration for Sport will determine whether he should be barred from competing. He insists he is innocent and failed the test because he ate contaminated beef.

If the court rules against him, he will be stripped of his 2010 Tour title and any other victories since then — including this year’s Giro d’Italia crown and, perhaps, this year’s Tour title, too.

“It’s really hard to understand why he’s still racing,” said Rolf Aldag, team manager of the HTC-Highroad squad and a former Tour rider. “I’m not sure why they couldn’t make a quicker decision about whether he is guilty or not. The problem is that everything is so up in the air right now, and that’s not good for anybody.”


Full article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/sports/cycling/contador-set-to-defend-tour-title-he-might-lose-in-court.html?_r=1&ref=sports

He is a tough competitor, just like Lance was. No more; no less. Same with PED use: no more; no less. Assuming he can continue competing, he may smash Armstrong's records because, as of now, there is nobody close to keeping up with him. Andy is over chaingate; we all should be too.

Lance never tested dirty did he?

Are you saying that he should have let Lance win in 2009? Lance was in terrible shape for the mountains for his "comeback" and clearly was not the best rider that year.

:popcorn

I think I've seen this movie before.

Uh, pardon my ignorance, but is the whole race supposed to come to a stop when one rider has a mechanical problem?

Uh, pardon my ignorance, but is the whole race supposed to come to a stop when one rider has a mechanical problem?

Yes, they are supposed to slow down so the winner can drink champagne and pose for the cameras as they ride into Paris.

Uh, pardon my ignorance, but is the whole race supposed to come to a stop when one rider has a mechanical problem?

No, but attacking when your main rival has a mechanical is not considered "classy". And Contador may dominate, but he doesn't exactly exude class.

SP
Bend, OR

I just want to take a moment to address some of the statements in the OP.

When Armstrong came back from retirement Contador was the leader of Astana, Armstrong announced that he was going to concentrate on the Giro and that he would back Contador on the TDF. Well the Giro didn't go as Armstrong wanted it to so he tried to push Contador aside in the TDF. Contador was having none of it and rode his own race (and won) then Armstrong tried to convince everyone that Contador wasn't a team player. Thats just plain bull.

Last year in the early part of the TDF Contador was caught behind a crash and Schleck's team took full advantage of this and put time on Contador, in a later stage Schleck had (chain) problems and Contador put time on him. Apparently Schleck can do that but Contador can't. Go figure?

If Contador looses the arbitration hearing (for testing positive of a TRACE amount of Clenbuterol) he will be striped of his 2010 TDF title but probably not any ensuing wins.

I, and everyone who cares about pro cycling (including Contador) agree that the process has gone on longer that it should have.

My teammate comment has nothing to do with Armstrong. It was another team member who was close to a podium position (at the time and as I remember it) who Contador dropped rather than dragging him along to a second place for the stage. Can't remember the name, but it elicited a lot of commentary from Phil/Paul and after race comments in the media. There were several occasions where Contador ignored Bruyneel to do his thing. That was reported in the media from several sources.

Armstrong waited for Ullrich and vice versa.

The dropped chain behavior was in character for Contador. Racing while being given a Spanish government pardon is as well. They would have given no quarter the the evil Armstrong given that even the US government has taken up the (apparent) persecution.

Al

My teammate comment has nothing to do with Armstrong. It was another team member who was close to a podium position (at the time and as I remember it) who Contador dropped rather than dragging him along to a second place for the stage. Can't remember the name, but it elicited a lot of commentary from Phil/Paul and after race comments in the media.
Al

Andreas Kloden

Andreas Kloden

I believe that's it. My wife still goes into a tirade on that.

Al

At the point during the race where Contador left Kloden, Contador had been struggling with Bruyneel and Armstrong's attempts to push Armstrong into the team leader position, when that failed they came up with (never before attempted) strategy of "filling the podium". Try to imagine for one moment how strange all this must have seemed to the actual leader of the team? Suddenly he isn't just competing against the field but also his teammates and team manager. Do you actually think that having Bruyneel yell over the team radio that you need to hold up and pull for Kloden, that you should trust him?

Look the way it works is like this: the team (manager included) does what it can to put the appointed team leader (prior to the start this person was Contador) into the yellow, if in doing this the team also gets other podium spots all the better.

Contador wasn't supposed to be put in the spot of supporting Kloden or Armstrong, they were there to support his GC attempt. In point of fact any member of a team who fails to put all their energy into this goal is a bad teammate, so Bruyneel, Armstrong and even Kloden were examples of "bad teammates".

Phil and Paul are broadcasting to the US public, as such they play up all US riders especially US riders who are popular in the US. With that in mind I have no issue with them pushing Armstrong on the audience. I don't always agree, but I understand it.

No, but attacking when your main rival has a mechanical is not considered "classy". And Contador may dominate, but he doesn't exactly exude class.

SP
Bend, OR

Cycling needs to get beyond this. It's a race, not a round of golf. You don't get gimme's. Mechanical problems happen when machines are used to race. You blew a shift or had a technical failure? Too bad, misfortunate, HTFU and get on with the race. First guy across the line wins.

At the point during the race where Contador left Kloden, Contador had been struggling with Bruyneel and Armstrong's attempts to push Armstrong into the team leader position, when that failed they came up with (never before attempted) strategy of "filling the podium". ".

As I remember it, Armstrong was not even in contention for the stage being way back down the hill. He was maneuvering to make a break but in a way not drag the opposition with him. I personally doubt the story as Armstrong showed no brilliance or outstanding condition up to that point in the race and Bruyneel is no dummy given his record. What had been demonstrated was that Contador was a loner and was not going to listen to Bruyneel no matter what. It's not ok for the prema donna to take over from the team manager because he might feel bad.

However, assume it's true, then it's ok for a rider to decide not to be part of the team and an inexperienced one at that over rule the manager; especially one who's won tours with and with out Armstrong? Strange concept in my book. If the team was against him, could it be due to Contrador not being a team player and Bruyneel had to mange a team where he couldn't count on the strongest member doing his part?

Armstrong won his 7 tours in very large part to Bruyneel's strategies, tactics and team discipline.

Al

Uh, pardon my ignorance, but is the whole race supposed to come to a stop when one rider has a mechanical problem?

I watched this as it happened and Contadour did make the attempt to slow down- Unfortunately the rest of the leaders would not so in my opinion- he had to go with them. It was unfortunate but now reflects on Contadour.

And I am not a contadour fan so I am not standing up for him. Circumstances forced him to not show the normal protocol that occurs when a leader has a mechanical.

Contador the doper.

http://zedimi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/137_funny-cow-pic.jpg

I personally doubt the story as Armstrong showed no brilliance or outstanding condition up to that point in the race and Bruyneel is no dummy given his record.
Al

One thing you might remember is: Bruyneel et. al left Contador at the hotel. The guy was winning the race and they left him at the hotel! Thats all the evidence you need that the team was not trying to support him.

One thing you might remember is: Bruyneel et. al left Contador at the hotel. The guy was winning the race and they left him at the hotel! Thats all the evidence you need that the team was not trying to support him.

That's a new one too. So Bruyneel is so mentally deranged or attached to Armstrong that he will throw away a tour win not to mention a team win?

Makes sense to me. I mean it's so much in character.

Al

He had to call his brother to get a ride to the race because the Astana car had been sent to pick up Armstrong's family at the airport.

He also had to (on his own) get a seamstress to fix the pad in his shorts for the ride up Ventroux.

I don't know about Bruyneel's mental state but these are not examples of support from the team or acts of prima Dona dom on Contador's part.

No, but attacking when your main rival has a mechanical is not considered "classy". And Contador may dominate, but he doesn't exactly exude class.

He sure as hell did in the Giro... giving away stage wins to people he felt deserved them. It was both dominating, and classy, win.

"Chaingate" wasn't as clear as it was made out to be. IMO, blowing a shift (rider error, in this case) isn't the same as flatting or crashing. Given that it came at a time when a lot was clearly planned, and the plans were just starting to unfold, it would be interesting to know what the team director was telling AC at the time.

He had to call his brother to get a ride to the race because the Astana car had been sent to pick up Armstrong's family at the airport.

And from what I've read, it was Lance that sent the car to the airport. Really classy champion, huh? No, but then, a lot of champions are hard-ass SOBs, that being part of what made them champions.

Glad the race is finally starting! I have Contador on my fantasy TdF team (velogames.com), even though he cost 30 of the allotted 100 points. Andy was available for 24, Cadel Evans for 20. AC will likely be the cleanest rider in the Tour, and still ride away from everyone.

Contador is a good rider. Just because he is not as likeable and doesnt play the international media as well as LA doesnt make him all bad...

AC will win the 2011 TdF.

If I'm against anybody, it's the cycling powers that give Contador a pass and are still hounding Armstrong. As the article indicated, the doping test failure could have been adjudicated months ago as it would have been if Armstrong had failed a test. Even when when exonerated, Armstrong was hounded. The blatant double standard sucks.

I'll be rooting for Schleck and the Radio Shack guys. Contrador failed a test and if he wins and it's latter taken away from him, the then winner never gets the benefits of a true winner. It casts a cloud over the whole race.

Bruyneel will favor his stronger rider as the race develops. That was the plan with Contador. As for the car thing, stupid actions are not always part of a plot. Sometimes they are just stupid.

Al

So here we go round on this again.

I just went back to YouTube to re-watch he video of the eventful Chain Drop and a couple of things seem to be going on.

AS is attacking and is about 30-40 ft., maybe more up the road from a group containing AC. Vinoukorov is bridging. AC is accelerating and has a huge amount of momentum as he passes AS. Just prior to being passed by Vino, AS suffers a mis-shift and dropped chain. AC is accelerating past him and isn't really looking back as AC bridges to Vino, who has also passed AS. AS stops to fix chain. The leaders ALL go by him. Nobody slows.

It's an attack, started by Schleck. As the following riders respond, Andy drops his chain. In pretty much all the other major races I've watched, when a leader gets a mechanical and there's a group with that leader, the group responds by waiting. When it's an attack, there's usually no group, thus nobody to share the info of a leaders problems. That seems to be the case here, where it's doubtful that AC knew initially knew that AS had a mechanical, as AC is sprinting up the road, followed by Vino and a bunch of others and does AC even know that AS is out ?. Is anyone in the groups yelling "Hey Wait ?" and there's no Tyler to tell Jan "hey Lance fell, lets wait". Probably at some point, AC knows, but should he wait ?. Good question and the consensus has never been clear. At what point does he stop ?. It's an attack remember, started by Schleck and responded to by Contador, so in some cases, all bets are off and sorry Andy.

Point 2 is that in all the other races where I've seen Schleck race, it's apparent he cannot accelerate up a hill like Contador. pretty much nobody in the peloton today can. Would Andy have won that stage ?, doubtful. So it's kind of a moot issue.

As to AC himself ?. Seems like a cold fish, but the guy speaks zip English so there's few interviews where we get to really get a feel for what kind of guy he is. Andy likes him, and I like Andy, so that's a plus. Lance doesn't like Alberto and I don't really like Lance, who speaks english, so that too is a plus for Alberto. Did he dope ?. Probably. Is he now ?. Probably not, as I like to think there's really a HUGE amount on the line right now, with AC starting a reign that could surpass both Armstrong and Merkx and that's a major career that you don't want to screw up.

SB

This is all getting tired.

I don't particularly care for Contador, no more than I did for Armstrong. However, both were (and AC's case are) great stage-racing cyclists, dope/no dope, whatever. H_ll, Marco Pantani was, is, and will always be one of my favourites.

Re. 'chaingate' ... non-issue. Andy 'Whine Whine' Schleck launched an attack, then made a basic error. He is prone to these; happened again this year in a time trial, and he's using Shimano.

The analogies to 'Armstrong waiting for Ulrich ... ' blah blah one often hears are false; the incidents in question did not involve basic 'operator error'. Schleck is still banging on about last year; given events in earlier stages in last year's Tour, a bit hypocritical, to say the least. Tough. He might win, he might not ... I could care less.

As for me, I'll cheer on Cuddles; he'll fail, again, but I don't care:D

If I'm against anybody, it's the cycling powers that give Contador a pass and are still hounding Armstrong.

Al, you need to go back and check your facts, because the "cycling powers" chose not to pursue Armstrong when he tested positive, but are pursuing Contador. It isn't the cycling governance bodies that are pursuing Lance now, but U.S. law enforcement.

Or in Bob Roll's words....the Tour daay France. Agree that AC will win.

Hi,

Just one comment. I am too lazy to find the exact quote but Andy said that he didn't lose the 2010 TdF because of the dropped chain. He said he lost it because of his poor performance in the Prologue.

Al, you need to go back and check your facts, because the "cycling powers" chose not to pursue Armstrong when he tested positive, but are pursuing Contador. It isn't the cycling governance bodies that are pursuing Lance now, but U.S. law enforcement.

The French lab took invalid data (even the Canadian experts objected) and accused Armstrong of doping. He had to sue (once again) at great personal expense to show that it was political persecution. That's one example of the many trumped up charges against a person who has not only never tested positive, but has been tested more than any other athlete (read witch hunt).

Other such examples I believe are recorded in Armstrong's war. A non hero-worship awesome book on stage racing which provides a clear picture of Armstrong's and Bruyneel's warts/quirks. Only humans after all.

Can you imagine the outrage if the US had interceded to get Armstrong off the hook as Spain did to bail out Contador. Instead, our government has gone Euro and piled on Armstrong.

The issue here is blatant hypocrisy of cycling offialdom and the cycling media.

Concerning Contador winning, he's got the extra burden of having competed in the Giro. Supposedly that's not done now-a-days due to the recovery time. Schleck hasn't looked all that great so far.

I have no opinion who will win or even who should/should not win. I just hope the wife doesn't throw some thing at the plasma tv.

Al

The French lab took invalid data (even the Canadian experts objected) and accused Armstrong of doping. He had to sue (once again) at great personal expense to show that it was political persecution. That's one example of the many trumped up charges against a person who has not only never tested positive, but has been tested more than any other athlete (read witch hunt).

Other such examples I believe are recorded in Armstrong's war. A non hero-worship awesome book on stage racing which provides a clear picture of Armstrong's and Bruyneel's warts/quirks. Only humans after all.

Can you imagine the outrage if the US had interceded to get Armstrong off the hook as Spain did to bail out Contador. Instead, our government has gone Euro and piled on Armstrong.

The issue here is blatant hypocrisy of cycling offialdom and the cycling media.

Concerning Contador winning, he's got the extra burden of having competed in the Giro. Supposedly that's not done now-a-days due to the recovery time. Schleck hasn't looked all that great so far.

I have no opinion who will win or even who should/should not win. I just hope the wife doesn't throw some thing at the plasma tv.

Al

The only reason the US let Armstrong twist in the wind, is that the US doesn't particularly care about cycling, if Lance played football, he could go out and commit murder and get off. Cycling is a big deal in Spain, so the Spanish interceded. One of the interesting questions though is how much does doping help in cycling? When one takes performance enhancing drugs, they are taking two huge risks, the first is of getting caught, the second is, the health issues caused by it. It's use is rampant in major league baseball, and look at all the guys there dying of heart attacks before they turn 30. There is also another disadvantage and that is increased muscle mass, which adds weight, a decided disadvantage in cycling, when your sponsor pays $10,000 for a bicycle that is .5kg lighter, finding out the rider is doping and is 2kg heavier, would not be helpful.

The only reason the US let Armstrong twist in the wind, is that the US doesn't particularly care about cycling, if Lance played football, he could go out and commit murder and get off. Cycling is a big deal in Spain, so the Spanish interceded. One of the interesting questions though is how much does doping help in cycling? When one takes performance enhancing drugs, they are taking two huge risks, the first is of getting caught, the second is, the health issues caused by it. It's use is rampant in major league baseball, and look at all the guys there dying of heart attacks before they turn 30. There is also another disadvantage and that is increased muscle mass, which adds weight, a decided disadvantage in cycling, when your sponsor pays $10,000 for a bicycle that is .5kg lighter, finding out the rider is doping and is 2kg heavier, would not be helpful.

Drugs are so evil that California has about legalized some while the DOJ sits on it's hands. The DOJ thinks it's ok for Black Panthers to stand out in front of poling places carrying weapons. I'm sick of the DOJ.

The world cycling "court" has found Armstrong innocent on countless occuasions and sometimes they were forced to do so by lawsuit. How many times does a person have to prove himself innocent? Ever hear of double jepordy?

I know of no country interceeding in a drug case for an athlete except for Spain. If it occurs it's rare. The US should NOT have interceeded for Armstrong.

You reach too far. You arguement lacks credibility.

Al

Is it possible to add a thread to an ignore list the way you can with a user?

Is it possible to add a thread to an ignore list the way you can with a user?

The proper place for this thread is in Pro Racing.

Is it possible to add a thread to an ignore list the way you can with a user?

You don't have free will?

Al

You don't have free will?

Al

You could Never work in a library, as you would have all the books mixed up everywhere.

You don't have free will?

Al

Absolutely. I'm not suggesting anyone not discuss anything or that a thread be moved anywhere. But sometimes I would like to exercise my free will by choosing not to be tempted into certain discussions.

Does anyone know if there's somewhere online you can watch the Tour for free? Or a chat to follow along.

NBC TV in 2 hours

The proper place for this thread is in Pro Racing.

I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.

I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.

Did you ever go in a grocery store to pick up some milk, bread and eggs and find all them in the laundry detergent section?

Did you ever go in a grocery store to pick up some milk, bread and eggs and find all them in the laundry detergent section?

No, but when I feel like a good discussion, I don't go hang out at the local grade schools either.

Did you ever go in a grocery store to pick up some milk, bread and eggs and find all them in the laundry detergent section?

Sorry, 10 Wheels, it's a poor metaphor. What we're talking about here is more like the difference between going to a grocery store (50+ forum) where you can get a bit of everything, vs. a shop that sells hot sauces (Road forum or Pro Racing forum) where you'll get burned most times you go.

Sorry, 10 Wheels, it's a poor metaphor. What we're talking about here is more like the difference between going to a grocery store (50+ forum) where you can get a bit of everything, vs. a shop that sells hot sauces (Road forum or Pro Racing forum) where you'll get burned most times you go.

So when one becomes 50 plus their balls dry up?

I wish you mods wouldn't do that to this forum. There is at least some maturity and respect here so people can read and discuss without juvenile insults that inevitably occur.

+10. It's always fascinated me that people blather endlessly about trivia on this forum, yet when they see a topic they don't agree with they intercede with these snippy comments.

There is no requirement or compelling reason why one has to read much less comment on every subject. No subject matter or discussion should bother folks as they don't have read them. And, if they can't contribute something, then don't go for the attention anyhow by trying to deminish some one. Wait for something of interest to shine.

Remember the recent thread on weight loss. Too much forum time is a killer.

Al

So when one becomes 50 plus their balls dry up?

Or is it like the old guys in small town playing checkers under a shade tree.

So when one becomes 50 plus their balls dry up?

Can't speak for others. But, no. I just have more common sense than to thrust my chest out as if I'm the baddest son-of-a-***** on the planet. A great many folks don't live long enough to rightfully participate in the 50+ forum - some through no fault of their own. Others well, because they were too stupid to live. BTW, I love hot sauce, (read my tag line). I just choose when and were I want it. I have no need to let my "balls" hanging out for others to see, or to use that type of testosterone driven metaphor to make a point. I know who I am and have a fairly accurate sense of my skills, abilities, passions, and motivations. When I feel the desire to participate in a non-articulate, name calling, let's see how demeaning we can be, chest-thumping discussion, I visit other places. When I want reason, maturity, civil difference of opinion, humor, and intelligence, I come here.

He had a bad day today, that's for sure - perhaps some irony (or not so ironic, per the song of the finishing town)...

Alouette, gentille Alouette Skylark, nice skylark Alouette, je te plumerai Skylark, I shall pluck your feathers...